Labor To Enter Into What Rest?

[Phoneman777]

How so?

“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” (1 Timothy 1:8–10) (KJV 1900)

Yes, the law is made to show the unrighteous man what he is doing wrong that he may seek Christ before it's too late.

Those like me who have found Christ have that same law written on our hearts - the very description of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10) - and we "establish the law" (Romans 3:31) by allowing Christ to live out His obedient, perfect life through us, not by fighting His law, insisting that we may enter the kingdom doing the very same exact thing that made necessary the death of our Savior on the Cross and that got Lucifer and his followers kicked out in the first place.

 

[Dave L]

Yes, the law is made to show the unrighteous man what he is doing wrong that he may seek Christ before it's too late.

Those like me who have found Christ have that same law written on our hearts - the very description of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10) - and we "establish the law" (Romans 3:31) by allowing Christ to live out His obedient, perfect life through us, not by fighting His law, insisting that we may enter the kingdom doing the very same exact thing that made necessary the death of our Savior on the Cross and that got Lucifer and his followers kicked out in the first place.

You are trying to replace the two great commandments with the expired ten.

 

[Phoneman777]

We are not under the law. Again, if you need to be told not to kidnap, murder or steal, you are not saved.

Whatever you think "Not under the Law" means does not include "not under obligation to keep the law" - if so, I dare you to say publicly the Christian may have the devil as his primary god and still go to heaven. Of course you won't, because the problem is not "...have no other gods before Me", it's "Remember the Sabbath day..."

"Not under the law" means "not under condemnation of the law..."

 

[Phoneman777]

You are trying to replace the two great commandments with the expired ten.

LOL, the Two Great are that upon which the Ten hang, according to Jesus.

If love Jesus, will you not keep the first four including the Sabbath which will you will keep for all eternity?

 

[Dave L]

Whatever you think "Not under the Law" means does not include "not under obligation to keep the law" - if so, I dare you to say publicly the Christian may have the devil as his primary god and still go to heaven. Of course you won't, because the problem is not "...have no other gods before Me", it's "Remember the Sabbath day..."

"Not under the law" means "not under condemnation of the law..."

If you keep the Ten Commandments you are fallen from grace.
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:1–4) (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

LOL, the Two Great are that upon which the Ten hang, according to Jesus.

If love Jesus, will you not keep the first four including the Sabbath which will you will keep for all eternity?

You don't keep the Sabbath if you heat your house or cook on Saturday.

 

[Phoneman777]

We are not under the law. Again, if you need to be told not to kidnap, murder or steal, you are not saved.

If the policeman places your speeding self from "under the law" to "under grace" by letting you go, are you free to break the speed limit thereafter?

 

[Phoneman777]

You don't keep the Sabbath if you heat your house or cook on Saturday.

Really? Is it really "work" to press a button on a thermostat? And shouldn't cooking be done before hand? Would you cook on your honeymoon or make other arrangements?

 

[Phoneman777]

If you keep the Ten Commandments you are fallen from grace.
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:1–4) (KJV 1900)

Once again, you're confusing the Law of Moses he wrote (circumcision) with the Law of God He wrote.

Please put your money where your mouth is and publicly declare we may freely worship the devil and still go to heaven.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It boils down to this: If Christians are not obligated to keep the Fourth Commandment, we are not obligated to keep ANY commandments: which means we may break the First commandment and join Aleister Crowley in his worship of Lucifer, or the Second and carve out for ourselves images upon which we may burn sprinkled incense, etc., etc., etc.

Good Heavens, LoL...

Ok, I've heard this argument before, but by extension you would be saying we should keep the entire Jewish law still, in which case I would ask you why they did not require the Gentiles to do such a thing.

I strongly doubt this will go anywhere productive, but give me your interpretation of the following passage. I'm curious how you interpret it.
"Do not touch, do not taste, neither handle," such things as are all coming to corruption in the using, in accordance with the injunctions and teachings of men, which indeed have a measure of wisdom in delight of worship and self-abasement and unsparing subjugation of the body, [yet] not in having any value against gratification of the flesh. If therefore, you were raised with Christ, seek those things above, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. Be mindful of the things above, not things on the earth. For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God. Whenever Christ our life may be made manifest, then you also will be made manifest with Him in glory. (Colossians 2:21-3:4)

 

[Phoneman777]

Good Heavens, LoL...

Ok, I've heard this argument before, but by extension you would be saying we should keep the entire Jewish law still, in which case I would ask you why they did not require the Gentiles to do such a thing.

YOU say that by extension, not me. The entire Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross, not what God wrote with His own finger in stone which "stands fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7-8). If so, then tell us we may worship Satan and go to heaven. Go ahead, please...

 

[Hidden In Him]

It boils down to this: If Christians are not obligated to keep the Fourth Commandment, we are not obligated to keep ANY commandments...

While I have you, by your interpretation, you would have Paul teaching that all who do not keep the Sabbath will suffer judgment from God, yes? The text would then be saying that they will die of physical judgments for not keeping the Sabbath day. If this is so, why is it not happening today? Just curious what your opinion here is.

6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall...

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If so, then tell us we may worship Satan and go to heaven. Go ahead, please...

Never mind, Phoneman. All this talk of worshipping Satan, and the simple fact that you can't put two posts together without being satanic in your behavior suggests you're the one guilty of what you accuse others of.

It was a mistake to even address you, and not one I will make again.

 

[Phoneman777]

While I have you, by your interpretation, you would have Paul teaching that all who do not keep the Sabbath will suffer judgment from God, yes? The text would then be saying that they will die of physical judgments for not keeping the Sabbath day. If this is so, why is it not happening today? Just curious what your opinion here is.

Paul, as do all the Bible writers teach, that if we break ANY of God's commandments, we'll be lost eternally.

And by "break" I mean "refuse to turn from".

God requires not from us perfection, but a willingness to be made perfect.

Antinomianists refuse to make a full surrender to God and by that become recipients of grace which both covers their sin and empowers them to live holy, so they've constructed a false gospel which says "I can't keep the law, so I'll be saved while breaking it".

"A just man falls seven times and rises up again" - an Antinomianist reclines content in the filth of sin while the Ladder of Grace lowered to him is despised.

 

[Dave L]

Once again, you're confusing the Law of Moses he wrote (circumcision) with the Law of God He wrote.

Please put your money where your mouth is and publicly declare we may freely worship the devil and still go to heaven.

The New Covenant replaced ALL of the Old Covenant. We have no sabbath requirement.

 

[Dave L]

Really? Is it really "work" to press a button on a thermostat? And shouldn't cooking be done before hand? Would you cook on your honeymoon or make other arrangements?

No fire in your dwelling. No cooking. You are working the system if you skirt this demand.

 

[bbyrd009]

the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath

If this is so, why is it not happening today?

well how do you know it isn't? I mean wadr we work Saturdays, right, and we're what $22 trillion in debt, and that's just the admitted debt I guess.

 

[Hidden In Him]

the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath
well how do you know it isn't? I mean wadr we work Saturdays, right, and we're what $22 trillion in debt, and that's just the admitted debt I guess.

LoL. I meant more of the dying or getting sick variety, as per 1 Corinthians 11:29-30.

I think I would have to charge the government's sins to them. I only owe on my house, and I honestly don't observe either Saturday or Sunday all that often.

 

[bbyrd009]

LoL. I meant more of the dying or getting sick variety, as per 1 Corinthians 11:29-30.

Well Jesus we're fat, sick, and nearly dead now, pay the highest in "health" care costs for the worst outcomes, and believers are all dying of wasting diseases now, I mean when's the last time you heard of a Believer dying peacefully in their sleep?

 

[bbyrd009]

I think I would have to charge the government's sins to them. I only owe on my house,

ah and you don't see how these two statements are mutually exclusive I guess? Are you not slave to a lender, right now? Do you not vote, pay taxes, serve in the military or advocate it, consider yourself a Patriot? I tell you that "the government's" sins will be charged to you ok, as soon as you voluntarily participate in any of that, you reveal where your heart is. And lender slavery will be forwarded as being "ok" right.

don't get me wrong, yes everyone else is doing it, you aren't breaking any laws or anything right.