"Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Faith" - Has 500 Years Taught Us Nothing?

[Phoneman777]

I agree about the wall.
Isn't the whore of Babylon in the region of Babylon??

Can't by, because Isaiah 13 plainly says Babylon will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, saying "it shall never be rebuilt, nor dwelt..."

Saddam H tried to rebuild Babylon. His hero was Nebuchanezzer, who threw the three Hebrew Worthies into the fiery furnace. Had a painting of himself in a Babylonian chariot dressed for the part. He got as far as repairing a minuscule section of the wall before he was removed from power.

Babylon is a symbolic name in prophecy, which refers to the papacy.

"What is local and literal in the OT is spiritual and worldwide in the NT."

 

[GodsGrace]

The Mass is NOT the Lord's Supper. A human priest is supposedly making a sacrifice of Christ on an altar, which is not only wrong,but when you think of it, blasphemous. The Bible says that the sacrifice of Christ was ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOREVER.

Please note carefully what the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia reveals:
If the Mass is to be a true sacrifice in the literal sense, it must realize the philosophical conception of sacrifice. Thus the last preliminary question arises: What is a sacrifice in the proper sense of the term? Without attempting to state and establish a comprehensive theory of sacrifice, it will suffice to show that, according to the comparative history of religions, four things are necessary to a sacrifice:

• a sacrificial gift (res oblata),
• a sacrificing minister (minister legitimus),
• a sacrificial action (actio sacrificica), and
• a sacrificial end or object (finis sacrificii).

This is a VIOLATION of the meaning of the finished work of Christ.

I'd have to agree.
You think my priest friends lie to me?
For what reason?

 

[CoreIssue]

I agree about the wall.
Isn't the whore of Babylon in the region of Babylon??

The city of Babylon has long been rubble.

Mystery Babylon has existed since Babylon and continues to exist today in the 10 toes that will be joined together again into the new pagan Roman empire whose God will be the AC.

The harlot sits on the seven hills of Rome. The capital of the Roman Empire was Rome. It will be the capital of the restored Roman Empire.

 

[GodsGrace]

Can't by, because Isaiah 13 plainly says Babylon will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, saying "it shall never be rebuilt, nor dwelt..."

Saddam H tried to rebuild Babylon. His hero was Nebuchanezzer, who threw the three Hebrew Worthies into the fiery furnace. Had a painting of himself in a Babylonian chariot dressed for the part. He got as far as repairing a minuscule section of the wall before he was removed from power.

Babylon is a symbolic name in prophecy, which refers to the papacy.

"What is local and literal in the OT is spiritual and worldwide in the NT."

Why not just come right out and say Rome, instead of Babylon?

Some think the anti Christ will come from Mecca.
I have no opinion.

 

[GodsGrace]

The city of Babylon has long been rubble.

Mystery Babylon has existed since Babylon and continues to exist today in the 10 toes that will be joined together again into the new pagan Roman empire whose God will be the AC.

The harlot sits on the seven hills of Rome. The capital of the Roman Empire was Rome. It will be the capital of the restored Roman Empire.

I meant the region.....

What are the ten toes?

And you think the Roman Empire will be restored from Rome??

And what does it mean that the harlot sits on one of the hills of Rome?

Sorry....I know nothing.

 

[CoreIssue]

Why not just come right out and say Rome, instead of Babylon?

Some think the anti Christ will come from Mecca.
I have no opinion.

Yes there are those that think the AC will rule and reign from an Islamic nation.

That is impossible because prophecy says the AC rises from the 10 toes and the third beast of Daniel. The third beast is Greece under Alexander the great, whose demon I believe will possess the AC and rule through him, just as it did with Alexander.

Read the characteristics of Alexander. They match the characteristics of the AC.

Mystery Babylon is the name given to the safe tonic system of commerce, government etc. check out the historical empires of the statue and the beast and you see a very common thread running through old.

The only reality that matches prophecy is Rome, the EU and the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[CoreIssue]

I meant the region.....

What are the ten toes?

And you think the Roman Empire will be restored from Rome??

And what does it mean that the harlot sits on one of the hills of Rome?

Sorry....I know nothing.

I am willing to help anyone the once to learn.

See the post immediately above.

 

[CoreIssue]

 

[CoreIssue]

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes there are those that think the AC will rule and reign from an Islamic nation.

That is impossible because prophecy says the AC rises from the 10 toes and the third beast of Daniel. The third beast is Greece under Alexander the great, whose demon I believe will possess the AC and rule through him, just as it did with Alexander.

Read the characteristics of Alexander. They match the characteristics of the AC.

Mystery Babylon is the name given to the safe tonic system of commerce, government etc. check out the historical empires of the statue and the beast and you see a very common thread running through old.

The only reality that matches prophecy is Rome, the EU and the Roman Catholic Church.

I can't study this. I've tried.
It seems like jibberish to me...it's too symbolic to be able to attribute it's reality to any one nation.
Greece and Italy are in no condition to run their own countries .Let alone take over the world .or whatever.

The EU is a mess too.
I just don't know enough.....

 

[GodsGrace]

View attachment 5104

Are you saying this is the new Roman empire?

 

[Phoneman777]

Why not just come right out and say Rome, instead of Babylon?

Some think the anti Christ will come from Mecca.
I have no opinion.

Long but necessary answer:

Paul did identify the Pagan Roman Empire as the identity of the Restrainer which was preventing the rise of the "Man of Sin" in his visit to the Thessalonians, but in his 2 Thessalonians 2 letter he spoke about what he'd previously said in person plainly now in letter to them symbolically:

"Remember when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now you (Thessalonians) know what withholdeth (what was restraining the rise of the Man of Sin aka Antichrist) that he (the Man of Sin aka Antichrist) might be revealed in his time. The mystery of iniquity doth already work. Only he (the "Restrainer") who now letteth ("restrains the rise of the Man of Sin Antichrist) will let until he (the "Restrainer") be taken out of the way. Then shall that Great Wicked (Man of Sin Antichrist) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming."

Every Early Church Father who had anything to say about what Paul told the early church about the identity of this Restrainer which was preventing the rise of the Man of Sin Antichrist said Paul told them "the Pagan Roman Empire". When it was "taken out of the way" when God removed it from the stage of history, the Papal Roman Antichrist arose in 538 A.D. and began its 1,260 year reign until the "deadly wound" of 1798 A.D.

Since even a whisper about the fall of any Empire meant certain death to anyone who would dare do so, it was necessary that Paul and the rest of the prophecy writers keep symbolic what they couldn't name openly.

 

[GodsGrace]

Long but necessary answer:

Paul did identify the Pagan Roman Empire as the identity of the Restrainer which was preventing the rise of the "Man of Sin" in his visit to the Thessalonians, but by letter he spoke about what he'd previously told them symbolically:

"Remember when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now you (Thessalonians) know what withholdeth (the rise of the Man of Sin aka Antichrist) that he (the Man of Sin aka Antichrist) might be revealed in his time. The mystery of iniquity doth already word. Only he who now letteth (the "Restrainer" which Paul said was Pagan Rome to the Thessalonians) will let until he (the "Restrainer") be taken out of the way. Then shall that Great Wicked (Man of Sin Antichrist) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming."

Every Early Church Father who had anything to say about what Paul told the early church about the identity of this Restrainer which was preventing the rise of the Man of Sin Antichrist said Paul told them "the Pagan Roman Empire". When is was "taken out of the way" when God removed it from the stage of history, the Papal Roman Antichrist arose in 538 A.D. and began its 1,260 year reign until the "deadly wound" of 1798 A.D.

Since even a whisper about the fall of any Empire meant certain death to anyone who would dare do so, it was necessary that Paul and the rest of the prophecy writers keep symbolic what they couldn't name openly.

Hmm. I remember something about your last paragraph.
What do you mean about the Papal Roman Antichrist in 538 ad?
I ask because the pope was not always called pope...

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well, the sources say otherwise.

But the fact doesn't change all of your arguments are Catholic.

No - the sources DON'T say that they have official approval of the Catholic Church.
That would take a nihil obstat or at least an imprimatur.

Look - if you want to make unsubstantiated attacks on the Catholic Church where nobody is going to expose you and put you in your place - go make them on your failed forum.

There are too many educated Catholics here . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hmm. I remember something about your last paragraph.
What do you mean about the Papal Roman Antichrist in 538 ad?
I ask because the pope was not always called pope...

You might ALSO want to remind our angry friend that "Pope" isn't even one of his official titles.

 

[CoreIssue]

I can't study this. I've tried.
It seems like jibberish to me...it's too symbolic to be able to attribute it's reality to any one nation.
Greece and Italy are in no condition to run their own countries .Let alone take over the world .or whatever.

The EU is a mess too.
I just don't know enough.....

Yes the EU is a mess, which opens the door for the AC just like the city states of Greece being a mess open the doors for Alexander the great.

First of all, no country is going to take over the world, second the AC would not rule Greece but from the EU with its capital at Rome.

The EU is moving in that direction now. They began as strictly an economic coalition but now they're trying to be a full-fledged government with a military.

 

[CoreIssue]

You might ALSO want to remind our angry friend that "Pope" isn't even one of his official titles.

You mean supreme pontiff which comes from the Latin pontifex maximus Which came from pagan Roman religion and was the head of the college of Pontiffs.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You mean supreme pontiff which comes from the Latin pontifex maximus Which came from pagan Roman religion and was the head of the college of Pontiffs.

Pontifex Maximus simply means "greatest bridge-builder".
Supreme Pontiff means essentially the same thing. Nothing "sinister" or "pagan" about it.

If it simply meant, "nice guy" - would you still believe it to be "pagan"??
Get educated . . .

 

[Phoneman777]

I meant the region.....

What are the ten toes?

And you think the Roman Empire will be restored from Rome??

And what does it mean that the harlot sits on one of the hills of Rome?

Sorry....I know nothing.

The ten toes of Daniel are the ten barbarian divisions of the fourth beast which was predicted to be divided. The "little horn" is the papacy which arose among the ten and uprooted three:

the Vandals
Heruli
Ostrogoths

...because these three refused to recognize the sovereign authority of the Bishop of Rome and he wasn't having it.

The other 7 barbarian tribes evolved into modern Europe:
the Anglo Saxons (England)
the Francs (France)
the Visigoths (Spain)
the Allemeni (Germany)
the Suevi (Portugal)
the Lombards (Italians)
the (Burgundians (Swiss)

Lest you think I'm crazy, here's a picture of the Nuernberg Rathaus in Germany, where the Protestant Reformers of the Reformation had hired the best sculptor to chisel in stone for all posterity to see just what was the eschatology interpretation of Daniel's beasts which was understood universally by the Great Reformers of the Great Protestant Reformation:


On the left, they chiseled the Lion with Eagles wings with Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzer, and the right, the Bear with Medo-Persian king Darius.



On the left, they chiseled the four headed Leopard with Greek king Alexander the Great, and the right, the Dragon-like Beast with the Roman Caesar...along with the Ten Horns on its head symbolizing the ten barbarian divisions of Rome when it fell apart.



...and if you look closely at the Ten Horns, they chiseled another Little Horn, with a figure adorned with the papal crown, which they represented as the office of the papacy. These guys didn't give a hoot about PC, unlike the pathetic "evangelicals" of today.

People think Phoneman777 makes this stuff up, but if only people would put down the propaganda and take a look at what the Protestant Reformation was all about and why these issues were important enough for God fearing men to die for.

 

[CoreIssue]

Pontifex Maximus simply means "greatest bridge-builder".
Supreme Pontiff means essentially the same thing. Nothing "sinister" or "pagan" about it.

If it simply meant, "nice guy" - would you still believe it to be "pagan"??
Get educated . . .

Stop lying.