Can Jesus and Paul be reconciled on the LAW?

[Waiting on him]

This is the same thing the judaizers were doing in the first century.

This was the thorn in Paul’s flesh

 

[Waiting on him]

This was the thorn in Paul’s flesh

But I sincerely believe the messenger of Satan sent to buffet was for Paul’s benefit. You know so he wouldn’t be exalted above measure.

 

[ScottA]

1. Jesus is God? Yet Jesus refers to his Father. His Fathers Commandments & His Fathers Kingdom! And outside the Temple as a son of God (Like every prophet is! Adam was a son of God also..)
Why would Jesus cry out to his Father on the cross if he was God?
2. You know not, every Israelite is a holy temple carrying his spirit and not everyone is a vessel for his spirit. So my point is not void at all.
3. Again, you cannot inherit that which was not given or passed onto you. Those with his spirit will get a new body. Those who never had the spirit only have their body...the truth of your spirit is either there in you or not.
4. Jesus has the keys to his fathers kingdom, So does every man who has the same spirit (is in him) and confesses him LORD with his lips and repents of his/her sin.
5. Paul's influence on Peter is recorded by Jesus rebuking Peter and John relates the passage about Peter being taken away to where he doesnt want to go.

1. Okay...so you don't believe Jesus is God. Fail.
2. No..."many are called, but few are chosen." Fail.
3. No..."there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." Fail.
4. Not exactly..."All things that the Father has are His", and He (Jesus) gives the keys of the kingdom to His church. Fail.
5. No..." This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God." Fail.

All F's.

 

[Danube]

And do you have a problem with the way Jesus shows Himself to men, or is it you hate Paul so much you cannot possibly think Christ can save and use him?? or is it only you that deserves salvation...

I read my bible and I do not see John giving his testimony to reveal anything other that to warn of the false apostle. You still haven't explained who this false apostle is!
We know satan comes as an angel of light.
We know Paul made himself an apostle.
It really is not difficult to understand when you know God will not test anyone beyond their abilities.
Pitching yeast to the body of unleavened bread will make it grow all puffed up and full of hot air!!

"Beware the yeast of the Pharisees"

Timeless warning and perfect analogy to describe Paul' extra biblical salvation.

This is the same thing the judaizers were doing in the first century.

Paul was jew (a Pharisee) have you forgotton your warning from Jesus before Paul reveals who he is?
"Beware the yeast of the Pharisees" if Pauls Yeast is his religion of grace then it sure can be seen growing apart from the message the 12 preached.

Paul tries to add his yeast to the body of Christ (his church) ...."the bread is my body"....

To his apostles at the last supper Jesus Christ tells you the bread signifies his body. We can now SEE Pauls extra-salvation sales pitch..
AFTER Jesus WAS SEEN IN THE FLESH in the garden AFTER his death of the body, he was seen with a new body and the message of salvation was his. Extra ingredient right there is pitched into Jesus body (his church and the very elect) by Paul. Why does John specifically give you a way of testing whether a spirit is from God or not?
So you can identify the difference between Jesus showing he came in the flesh AFTER his Crucifiction and Paul hearing a voice (seeing none of the bread before him but full of his own yeast).

1. Okay...so you don't believe Jesus is God. Fail. (I think you need Pauls grace to fudge your own belief.)
2. No..."many are called, but few are chosen." Fail. (alas...no holy spirit, no keys to the kingdom...few vessels will be left after Saul has finished his persecution of those who do not have his grace but have the Fathers spirit)
3. No..."there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." Fail. (you need to ask why did John specify seeing Jesus in the flesh and NOT as a "light" which is all Paul writes).
4. Not exactly..."All things that the Father has are His", and He (Jesus) gives the keys of the kingdom to His church. Fail.(God' children have his spirit....it doesnt say all who have Pauls grace)
5. No..." This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God." Fail. (I call a liar a liar, just like John does and Paul does ...speaking of himself!...did you forget Paul wrote to tell you he was a liar?

All F's. (so you say! But you defend a liar, so take part in his sin.)

You are not qualified.
If you can't grasp the major difference between having the spirit in you NOW ("the kingdom is at hand") and extra spiritual grace then your whole argument and judgements on success and failure are already built upon the sand. You are no teacher to me. You need the premise of grace before your Pharisical argument can hold water and it fails miserably.
Those that have the Son already have the Father.
(Good News for those who have lost their identity but have his Holy Spirit!)
Amen!

 

[Waiting on him]

I read my bible and I do not see John giving his testimony to reveal anything other that to warn of the false apostle. You still haven't explained who this false apostle is!
We know satan comes as an angel of light.
We know Paul made himself an apostle.
It really is not difficult to understand when you know God will not test anyone beyond their abilities.
Pitching yeast to the body of unleavened bread will make it grow all puffed up and full of hot air!!

"Beware the yeast of the Pharisees"

Timeless warning and perfect analogy to describe Paul' extra biblical salvation.


Paul was jew (a Pharisee) have you forgotton your warning from Jesus before Paul reveals who he is?
"Beware the yeast of the Pharisees" if Pauls Yeast is his religion of grace then it sure can be seen growing apart from the message the 12 preached.

Paul tries to add his yeast to the body of Christ (his church) ...."the bread is my body"....

To his apostles at the last supper Jesus Christ tells you the bread signifies his body. We can now SEE Pauls extra-salvation sales pitch..
AFTER Jesus WAS SEEN IN THE FLESH in the garden AFTER his death of the body, he was seen with a new body and the message of salvation was his. Extra ingredient right there is pitched into Jesus body (his church and the very elect) by Paul. Why does John specifically give you a way of testing whether a spirit is from God or not?
So you can identify the difference between Jesus showing he came in the flesh AFTER his Crucifiction and Paul hearing a voice (seeing none of the bread before him but full of his own yeast).

1. Okay...so you don't believe Jesus is God. Fail. (I think you need Pauls grace to fudge your own belief.)
2. No..."many are called, but few are chosen." Fail. (alas...no holy spirit, no keys to the kingdom...few vessels will be left after Saul has finished his persecution of those who do not have his grace but have the Fathers spirit)
3. No..."there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." Fail. (you need to ask why did John specify seeing Jesus in the flesh and NOT as a "light" which is all Paul writes).
4. Not exactly..."All things that the Father has are His", and He (Jesus) gives the keys of the kingdom to His church. Fail.(God' children have his spirit....it doesnt say all who have Pauls grace)
5. No..." This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God." Fail. (I call a liar a liar, just like John does and Paul does ...speaking of himself!...did you forget Paul wrote to tell you he was a liar?

All F's. (so you say! But you defend a liar, so take part in his sin.)

You are not qualified.
If you can't grasp the major difference between having the spirit in you NOW ("the kingdom is at hand") and extra spiritual grace then your whole argument and judgements on success and failure are already built upon the sand. You are no teacher to me. You need the premise of grace before your Pharisical argument can hold water and it fails miserably.
Those that have the Son already have the Father.
(Good News for those who have lost their identity but have his Holy Spirit!)
Amen!

Paul bares the image of Christ!

Paul was jew (a Pharisee) have you forgotton your warning from Jesus before Paul reveals who he is?
"Beware the yeast of the Pharisees" if Pauls Yeast is his religion of grace then it sure can be seen growing apart from the message the 12 preached

1 Corinthians 4:11 KJV
[11] Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;

Tecarta Bible PremiumThis same message is for me.

 

[Ezra]

You just put Paul in my way to reaching Jesus.
“But woe 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!

"If the truth of God has been spread by my lie, then why am I judged a sinner."

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

i have had all of you i care to digest .i did my best give you scriptures.. you blasphemed paul being called by Jesus ... unless you repent..you could be in serious judgment

 

[Willie T]

i have had all of you i care to digest .i did my best give you scriptures.. you blasphemed paul being called by Jesus ... unless you repent..you could be in serious judgment

Boy, when you preach, you bleach! LOL

 

[Ezra]

Boy, when you preach, you bleach! LOL

sometimes ya just gotta say it. every one has been using scripture pointing out his error... he better be careful God turn him over to a reprobate mind...Bible says to avoid foolish questions

 

[Danube]

Paul bares the image of Christ!


1 Corinthians 4:11 KJV
[11] Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;

Tecarta Bible PremiumThis same message is for me.

....Say's Paul or Paul say's...
(circular reasoning/self serving argument)
0/10

i have had all of you i care to digest .i did my best give you scriptures.. you blasphemed paul being called by Jesus ... unless you repent..you could be in serious judgment

0/10 The old "damnation" arguements... If only you would hear Jesus' words.
Be careful you don't get blinded by the light and all together fall in a ditch.

sometimes ya just gotta say it. every one has been using scripture pointing out his error... he better be careful God turn him over to a reprobate mind...Bible says to avoid foolish questions

All you lot have done is quote Pauls own letters and it is all hinged on "his" single testimony of "his" Damascas "angel of light" experiennce.

 

[Danube]

Boy, when you preach, you bleach! LOL

You offer 0.
All you can say is ad-hominem type replies.
No substance at all, just like throwing stones for Saul. Must be difficult defending a liar!!
0/10

 

[ScottA]

I read my bible and I do not see John giving his testimony to reveal anything other that to warn of the false apostle. You still haven't explained who this false apostle is!
We know satan comes as an angel of light.
We know Paul made himself an apostle.
It really is not difficult to understand when you know God will not test anyone beyond their abilities.
Pitching yeast to the body of unleavened bread will make it grow all puffed up and full of hot air!!

"Beware the yeast of the Pharisees"

Timeless warning and perfect analogy to describe Paul' extra biblical salvation.


Paul was jew (a Pharisee) have you forgotton your warning from Jesus before Paul reveals who he is?
"Beware the yeast of the Pharisees" if Pauls Yeast is his religion of grace then it sure can be seen growing apart from the message the 12 preached.

Paul tries to add his yeast to the body of Christ (his church) ...."the bread is my body"....

To his apostles at the last supper Jesus Christ tells you the bread signifies his body. We can now SEE Pauls extra-salvation sales pitch..
AFTER Jesus WAS SEEN IN THE FLESH in the garden AFTER his death of the body, he was seen with a new body and the message of salvation was his. Extra ingredient right there is pitched into Jesus body (his church and the very elect) by Paul. Why does John specifically give you a way of testing whether a spirit is from God or not?
So you can identify the difference between Jesus showing he came in the flesh AFTER his Crucifiction and Paul hearing a voice (seeing none of the bread before him but full of his own yeast).

1. Okay...so you don't believe Jesus is God. Fail. (I think you need Pauls grace to fudge your own belief.)
2. No..."many are called, but few are chosen." Fail. (alas...no holy spirit, no keys to the kingdom...few vessels will be left after Saul has finished his persecution of those who do not have his grace but have the Fathers spirit)
3. No..."there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." Fail. (you need to ask why did John specify seeing Jesus in the flesh and NOT as a "light" which is all Paul writes).
4. Not exactly..."All things that the Father has are His", and He (Jesus) gives the keys of the kingdom to His church. Fail.(God' children have his spirit....it doesnt say all who have Pauls grace)
5. No..." This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God." Fail. (I call a liar a liar, just like John does and Paul does ...speaking of himself!...did you forget Paul wrote to tell you he was a liar?

All F's. (so you say! But you defend a liar, so take part in his sin.)

You are not qualified.
If you can't grasp the major difference between having the spirit in you NOW ("the kingdom is at hand") and extra spiritual grace then your whole argument and judgements on success and failure are already built upon the sand. You are no teacher to me. You need the premise of grace before your Pharisical argument can hold water and it fails miserably.
Those that have the Son already have the Father.
(Good News for those who have lost their identity but have his Holy Spirit!)
Amen!

I have given you the scriptures line upon line, but you refuse them with hate in your heart.

Fine.

 

[Danube]

I have given you the scriptures line upon line, but you refuse them with hate in your heart.

Fine.

Like I asked, what does Paul achieve that Jesus did not already for us on the cross?

Ecclesiastes 3:8

Are you ready for the harvest?

 

[Ezra]

Are you ready for the harvest?

are you with your carnal views towards paul it might be pretty warm

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Like I asked, what does Paul achieve that Jesus did not already for us on the cross?

Ecclesiastes 3:8

Are you ready for the harvest?

You want a witness for Paul...what about scripture; what about the Holy Spirit and His voice and the voice of His prophets?

Isaiah 49:5-6
[5] And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord , and my God shall be my strength. [6] And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isaiah 54:3-4
[3] For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. [4] Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. (Romans 7:1-4)

Isaiah 60:3-4
[3] And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. [4] Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

Isaiah 11:9-10
[9] They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord , as the waters cover the sea. [10] And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Isaiah 61:6
[6] But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord : men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

Matthew 12:18-21
[18] Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. [19] He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. [20] A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. [21] And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

Acts 9:15-16
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: [16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Acts 13:45-47
[45] But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. [46] Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. [47] For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying , I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.—exactly the same as : (Isaiah 49:6) And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

“To restore” and “preserve” I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, THAT thou mayest be my salvation unto THE END OF THE EARTH.

Sorry. I know that is much but hopefully you can see the Word is Paul’s witness.

 

[mjrhealth]

We know Paul made himself an apostle.

Jesus did, not Paul, since the apostles accepted Him as one of there it is you who is tossing him out. And if you throw Him out you may as well throw out all those who have being called by Christ since than because they where not with Him at the time either, which means even you cannot learn from God nor be saved as you where not there either and where a sinner just as He was.

 

[Nancy]

I read my bible and I do not see John giving his testimony to reveal anything other that to warn of the false apostle. You still haven't explained who this false apostle is!
We know satan comes as an angel of light.
We know Paul made himself an apostle.
It really is not difficult to understand when you know God will not test anyone beyond their abilities.
Pitching yeast to the body of unleavened bread will make it grow all puffed up and full of hot air!!

"Beware the yeast of the Pharisees"

Timeless warning and perfect analogy to describe Paul' extra biblical salvation.


Paul was jew (a Pharisee) have you forgotton your warning from Jesus before Paul reveals who he is?
"Beware the yeast of the Pharisees" if Pauls Yeast is his religion of grace then it sure can be seen growing apart from the message the 12 preached.

Paul tries to add his yeast to the body of Christ (his church) ...."the bread is my body"....

To his apostles at the last supper Jesus Christ tells you the bread signifies his body. We can now SEE Pauls extra-salvation sales pitch..
AFTER Jesus WAS SEEN IN THE FLESH in the garden AFTER his death of the body, he was seen with a new body and the message of salvation was his. Extra ingredient right there is pitched into Jesus body (his church and the very elect) by Paul. Why does John specifically give you a way of testing whether a spirit is from God or not?
So you can identify the difference between Jesus showing he came in the flesh AFTER his Crucifiction and Paul hearing a voice (seeing none of the bread before him but full of his own yeast).

1. Okay...so you don't believe Jesus is God. Fail. (I think you need Pauls grace to fudge your own belief.)
2. No..."many are called, but few are chosen." Fail. (alas...no holy spirit, no keys to the kingdom...few vessels will be left after Saul has finished his persecution of those who do not have his grace but have the Fathers spirit)
3. No..."there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." Fail. (you need to ask why did John specify seeing Jesus in the flesh and NOT as a "light" which is all Paul writes).
4. Not exactly..."All things that the Father has are His", and He (Jesus) gives the keys of the kingdom to His church. Fail.(God' children have his spirit....it doesnt say all who have Pauls grace)
5. No..." This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God." Fail. (I call a liar a liar, just like John does and Paul does ...speaking of himself!...did you forget Paul wrote to tell you he was a liar?

All F's. (so you say! But you defend a liar, so take part in his sin.)

You are not qualified.
If you can't grasp the major difference between having the spirit in you NOW ("the kingdom is at hand") and extra spiritual grace then your whole argument and judgements on success and failure are already built upon the sand. You are no teacher to me. You need the premise of grace before your Pharisical argument can hold water and it fails miserably.
Those that have the Son already have the Father.
(Good News for those who have lost their identity but have his Holy Spirit!)
Amen!

So, it would be quite fair to say that you just plain do not believe in the Gospel of grace. Grace is mentioned many times OT and NT. And, not just the Paul's epistles either:

"While the idea of grace can be said to be largely a Pauline one, there are references to it in John and Luke as well. John describes Jesus as "full of grace and truth" and speaks of his people receiving grace upon grace from the fullness of his grace ( John 1:16 ). In one of the most important theological statements about grace in Scripture, John says that the Law, a good thing, was given through Moses; the better things of grace and truth came through Jesus Christ ( John 1:17 ).

When we turn to the writings of Luke, we find that Jesus is described as having the grace of God upon him ( Luke 2:40 ) and as growing in grace with God and man ( Luke 2:52 ). Many more references to grace are found in the Book of Acts. Luke makes a strong association between grace and power, especially in the early chapters ( 4:33 ; 6:8 ; 11:23 ). Grace is found without qualifier ( 18:27 ) and in the phrases "message of his grace" ( 14:3 ), "grace of God" ( 14:26 ), "grace of our Lord Jesus" ( 15:11 ), "grace of the Lord" ( 15:40 ). The distinction between these phrases does not seem acute, and therefore the basic synonymity between them points to an intention on Luke's part to make a statement about the deity of Christ. Again, these phrases often seemed to be linked with the power of God to create spiritual life and to sustain Christians. This grace is, as in the Old Testament passages, an unmerited favor, but now a new aspect of power in the Spirit has been added to it."
What is Grace? Bible Meaning and Definition

 

[farouk]

So, it would be quite fair to say that you just plain do not believe in the Gospel of grace. Grace is mentioned many times OT and NT. And, not just the Paul's epistles either:

"While the idea of grace can be said to be largely a Pauline one, there are references to it in John and Luke as well. John describes Jesus as "full of grace and truth" and speaks of his people receiving grace upon grace from the fullness of his grace ( John 1:16 ). In one of the most important theological statements about grace in Scripture, John says that the Law, a good thing, was given through Moses; the better things of grace and truth came through Jesus Christ ( John 1:17 ).

When we turn to the writings of Luke, we find that Jesus is described as having the grace of God upon him ( Luke 2:40 ) and as growing in grace with God and man ( Luke 2:52 ). Many more references to grace are found in the Book of Acts. Luke makes a strong association between grace and power, especially in the early chapters ( 4:33 ; 6:8 ; 11:23 ). Grace is found without qualifier ( 18:27 ) and in the phrases "message of his grace" ( 14:3 ), "grace of God" ( 14:26 ), "grace of our Lord Jesus" ( 15:11 ), "grace of the Lord" ( 15:40 ). The distinction between these phrases does not seem acute, and therefore the basic synonymity between them points to an intention on Luke's part to make a statement about the deity of Christ. Again, these phrases often seemed to be linked with the power of God to create spiritual life and to sustain Christians. This grace is, as in the Old Testament passages, an unmerited favor, but now a new aspect of power in the Spirit has been added to it."
What is Grace? Bible Meaning and Definition

"All of grace, yes, grace surpassing
Such a portion to bestow,
But the love, all knowledge passing,
Grace has taught us now to know."

 

[Nancy]

Jesus did, not Paul, since the apostles accepted Him as one of there it is you who is tossing him out. And if you throw Him out you may as well throw out all those who have being called by Christ since than because they where not with Him at the time either, which means even you cannot learn from God nor be saved as you where not there either and where a sinner just as He was.

I guess his "discernment" is much better than Gods chosen apostles

 

[Danube]

I guess his "discernment" is much better than Gods chosen apostles

NOT ONE has explained to me WHO IS THE FALSE APOSTLE if it is NOT Paul(Saul) then WHO???????
WHO was John reffering to with his warning? If you say you believe the Gospels then you need to get behind Johns warning! Who is John referring too?
Please attempt to answer this question so we can know for sure who it is!

Let us see your discernment?

 

[Danube]

Jesus did, not Paul, since the apostles accepted Him as one of there it is you who is tossing him out. And if you throw Him out you may as well throw out all those who have being called by Christ since than because they where not with Him at the time either, which means even you cannot learn from God nor be saved as you where not there either and where a sinner just as He was.

Those that have the Son have the Father.

What does Paul acheive for my salvation that my Lord and Saviour Jesus, hadn't already achieved for me on the cross?

Please do tell us.