When is it time to forgive and when is it time to act?

[Taken]

I've seen that happen. Other times I haven't seen it happen.

Gods Vengeance and Wrath comes into fruition during the great tribulation.

Glory to God,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

Gods Vengeance and Wrath comes into fruition during the great tribulation.

Glory to God,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

The GT already happened in 70AD. And it was the worst wrath ever poured out on a people. We also see his wrath on those who abuse us in life.

 

[Nancy]

sounds like Catholic bs to me, sorry. If you sow good you reap good, right?

Sure, God gives good to believers as well as un-believers. Just because you might reap good does not mean you "deserve" it. :)

 

[Taken]

The GT already happened in 70AD. And it was the worst wrath ever poured out on a people. We also see his wrath on those who abuse us in life.

Disagree.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

Disagree.

Glory to God,
Taken

Jesus spoke to his disciples in the personal 2nd person plural, not third, when he said "when you see" = they would leave town when they saw it happening. Which they did. = Great Jewish Tribulation in 70 CE.

 

[Willie T]

Jesus spoke to his disciples in the personal 2nd person plural, not third, when he said "when you see" = they would leave town when they saw it happening. Which they did. = Great Jewish Tribulation in 70 CE.

And, in addition, you expressed it correctly. Those "times of great tribulation" are spoken of... NOT a specifically designated future period of time to be called THE GREAT Tribulation.

 

[Taken]

Jesus spoke to his disciples in the personal 2nd person plural, not third, when he said "when you see"

That was not in question.

= they would leave town when they saw it happening. Which they did. = Great Jewish Tribulation in 70 CE.

Disagree.

OT
Tribulation(S) ... were foretold Would be hardships the Jews would experience.

The PURPOSE was to teach PATIENCE and ENDURANCE.

NT
Men who heard and Accepted Jesus And Became Converted in Christ Jesus, were foretold they Would experience Tribulation(S)/ Hardships.

The PURPOSE was to teach PATIENCE and ENDURANCE.

The RESULT is revealed...That it Makes the man = to;
Jesus' LIKENESS.

THEE GREAT TRIBULATION has not YET Occured.

The Great Tribulation is foretold...
Is an ACT of God Pouring out HIS Wrath and Tribulations upon:
The Earth
And Partucularly upon the people/nations WHO
REJECTED Him and Christ Jesus.

People WHO Believe IN God...
(But that have been Converted in Christ Jesus)
ARE directed To Flee the cities...
Go to the mountains.

The man of Perdition, ie. Thee anti-Christ will already Be in place, with the False Prophet,
Wielding world governance authority and power.

That Dominance Begins IN the Cities, particularly being Established IN Jerusalem.

Men who believe IN God, running to the mountains, scattering, hiding, away from the cities...are forewarned to do so, because of what will begin Happening First in the cities where Large numbers of people are well known to be habituating.


God has already foretold;
What Will come to pass;
And in What Order;
And in What Time-Frame;

Those IN God And Christ Jesus;
Lifted Above the Earth, before the great Tribulation.
(Redemption of Christ's Church, in short called The Rapture;

The Son of perdition and anti-Christ and False prophet revealed...announcing World Peace and Safety.

Many acquiescing, relieved, jumping onboard.
Some running for the Hills.

Those in the hills WHO turn to Christ Jesus, become, Converted, will be found, Killed at the direction of the anti-Christ.

When all of THEM are Dead, Their Saved souls are lifted UP to Heaven. Their Redemption during the great Tribulation.

A Few mortals, neither having submitted ito Conversion IN Christ...or Submitted TO the anti-Christ, or Found an Killed at his direction, remain in hiding Mortally Alive on the Earth.

Gods Wrath and Indignation poured out upon the people remaining on earth who REJECT God...Gods fulfillment of His Vengeance on behalf of all WITH thee Lord God.

Before, During, Ending, Gods Great Tribulation...is fulfilment of The Prophecy...
OF Division...THOSE with God away from those Without God...and a Last Stance (1,000 years) for a remnant of Mortals to come To Christ Without the presence of Fallen angels influence.

Glory to God,
Taken

Matt 24
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
[17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
[19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 16
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

 

[Dave L]

That was not in question.



Disagree.

OT
Tribulation(S) ... were foretold Would be hardships the Jews would experience.

The PURPOSE was to teach PATIENCE and ENDURANCE.

NT
Men who heard and Accepted Jesus And Became Converted in Christ Jesus, were foretold they Would experience Tribulation(S)/ Hardships.

The PURPOSE was to teach PATIENCE and ENDURANCE.

The RESULT is revealed...That it Makes the man = to;
Jesus' LIKENESS.

THEE GREAT TRIBULATION has not YET Occured.

The Great Tribulation is foretold...
Is an ACT of God Pouring out HIS Wrath and Tribulations upon:
The Earth
And Partucularly upon the people/nations WHO
REJECTED Him and Christ Jesus.

People WHO Believe IN God...
(But that have been Converted in Christ Jesus)
ARE directed To Flee the cities...
Go to the mountains.

The man of Perdition, ie. Thee anti-Christ will already Be in place, with the False Prophet,
Wielding world governance authority and power.

That Dominance Begins IN the Cities, particularly being Established IN Jerusalem.

Men who believe IN God, running to the mountains, scattering, hiding, away from the cities...are forewarned to do so, because of what will begin Happening First in the cities where Large numbers of people are well known to be habituating.


God has already foretold;
What Will come to pass;
And in What Order;
And in What Time-Frame;

Those IN God And Christ Jesus;
Lifted Above the Earth, before the great Tribulation.
(Redemption of Christ's Church, in short called The Rapture;

The Son of perdition and anti-Christ and False prophet revealed...announcing World Peace and Safety.

Many acquiescing, relieved, jumping onboard.
Some running for the Hills.

Those in the hills WHO turn to Christ Jesus, become, Converted, will be found, Killed at the direction of the anti-Christ.

When all of THEM are Dead, Their Saved souls are lifted UP to Heaven. Their Redemption during the great Tribulation.

A Few mortals, neither having submitted ito Conversion IN Christ...or Submitted TO the anti-Christ, or Found an Killed at his direction, remain in hiding Mortally Alive on the Earth.

Gods Wrath and Indignation poured out upon the people remaining on earth who REJECT God...Gods fulfillment of His Vengeance on behalf of all WITH thee Lord God.

Before, During, Ending, Gods Great Tribulation...is fulfilment of The Prophecy...
OF Division...THOSE with God away from those Without God...and a Last Stance (1,000 years) for a remnant of Mortals to come To Christ Without the presence of Fallen angels influence.

Glory to God,
Taken

Matt 24
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
[17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
[19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 16
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

You need to place the two tribulations into their biblical context. They left town when they saw the Jewish great tribulation happening = it was them Jesus warned, not us. Christian tribulation spans the entire New Covenant era.

 

[Taken]

You need to place the two tribulations into their biblical context.

Already did.

Multiple Tribulations are results throughout history of Men Against Men.

Gods Great Tribulation will be the result of Gods Act upon Men Against God.

Can't understand it For You.

They left town when they saw the Jewish great tribulation happening = it was them Jesus warned, not us. Christian tribulation spans the entire New Covenant era.

Please quote Scripture...that says those words...

"The Great Tribulation"

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

Already did.

Multiple Tribulations are results throughout history of Men Against Men.

Gods Great Tribulation will be the result of Gods Act upon Men Against God.

Can't understand it For You.



Please quote Scripture...that says those words...



Glory to God,
Taken

You are ignoring the judgement against Jerusalem in 70CE.

 

[Taken]

You are ignoring the judgement against Jerusalem in 70CE.

No. You ignored revealing what specifically you are talking about.

"You are saying 70CE = the great tribulation."

I didn't ignore what you claimed....I asked you to Show it in Scripture.

Where is the Scripture...?
Book, Chapt, verse?

I can't ignore something you have not yet revealed!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

No. You ignored revealing what specifically you are talking about.

"You are saying 70CE = the great tribulation."

I didn't ignore what you claimed....I asked you to Show it in Scripture.

Where is the Scripture...?
Book, Chapt, verse?

I can't ignore something you have not yet revealed!

Glory to God,
Taken

When ye therefore shall see = 2nd person plural = present audience (Mt 24:15).

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:21) (KJV 1900)

 

[Taken]

When ye therefore shall see = 2nd person plural = present audience (Mt 24:15).

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:21) (KJV 1900)

Uh huh.

So please elaborate...how you have concluded " ye shall see" and "shall be great tribulation" has Already Happened?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Willie T]

Uh huh.

So please elaborate...how you have concluded " ye shall see" and "shall be great tribulation" has Already Happened?

Glory to God,
Taken

Have you ever read George Peter Holford's Destruction of Jerusalem, ( CLICK HERE ), or anything Flavius Josephus wrote about those days?

That is the biggest thing God ever did to an entire civilization and religious order.... EVER.

 

[Nancy]

Have you ever read George Peter Holford's Destruction of Jerusalem, ( CLICK HERE ), or anything Flavius Josephus wrote about those days?

That is the biggest thing God ever did to an entire civilization and religious order.... EVER.

Just started reading this a few minutes ago. It is very interesting. I will have to finish it tomorrow. :)

 

[Taken]

Have you ever read George Peter Holford's Destruction of Jerusalem, ( CLICK HERE ), or anything Flavius Josephus wrote about those days?

That is the biggest thing God ever did to an entire civilization and religious order.... EVER.

No I have not read the material you mentioned.

Hebrews/Jews were called...answered the calling...agreed to Gods Terms...

Ex 19:
[8] And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

The Jews are born Jews. They can not Unbecome a Jew.

1) They individually Choose to follow and DO as their forefathers...who remained obedient through the Law.

2) Or they individually choose to believe In God And the Christ Messiah Jesus...rendering them released from the consequences of the Law...and becoming MADE wholly whole.

Throughout history, there have been Jews:
1) WHO remain obedient, through the Law.
2) WHO individually or Group, (as a clan/family/tribe,) have deflected away from God...
Which is parallel with the teaching on Divorce, such leaving God, being a similarity to Divorce.

Numerous times Jews have faced tribulations as a consequence for leaving God.

It causes their purpose of being examples to the world, to fade from being accomplished.

Jews who have rejected God are in the same sinking situation as a Gentile who rejects God and Christ Jesus.

Jew or Gentile who becomes In God, In Christ have received the internal power of God, to ONCE and FOREVER Be Saved unto the Lord and His gift or everlasting Life.
(They heard the calling to Christ, they answered with their Yes, and agreement He would Keep them Faithful forever unto Him, BY and through His Indwelling Power.)

^^They ARE Christ's Church. They are accomplished according to Gods Pleasure, and shall Before Gods Great Tribulation be raised UP Above the Earth. (To the Clouds)

First part of Gods Great Tribulation, Jews Specific (many, not all) go into hiding and ARE ministered to about Jesus. (Works of the 144,000, holy Servants of God).

They shall be Bodily killed, yet their souls saved, their spirits Quickened, and together,
raised UP Above the Earth. (To Heaven).

Last call to the Earths inhabitants...who have not yet made an allegiance to Satan...That call is made by Gods Holy Angel.

Just a brief...(does not include all details, or remaining remnant of mortals, to repopulate for 1,000 years)

I acknowledge Jews And Gentile's, suffer tribulation(s)...at the Hands of men.... it is foretold...thus expected...and examples to us in Scriptures.

1) Some Jews for leaving God.
Suffer by God Allowing.
2) Some Jews for staying with God.
Suffer by the hands of men influenced by Evil.
3) Some Gentile's for hearing and rejecting.
4) Some Gentile's / Jews for making false confessions.
5) Some Gentile's / Jews for Confessing in Truth,
Suffer by the hands of men influenced by Evil.

and...nearing the End of Gods Great Tribulation... the Point is Division...every individual according To the individuals own individual choice regarding God and Christ Jesus.

Those WITH God, Above the Earth, according to the Time God established For them To Be raised UP.

Those WITHOUT God shall then Suffer, Gods Great Tribulation.. Wrath.. hardships..for all the Suffering they heaped upon Gods Faithful.

That is God fulfilling His Promise of Vengeance...for ALL who suffered...Because THEY Believed.

I acknowledge Hebrews/Jews Suffering by comparison to Gentiles has been greater...yet not surprising... They were the first established in God, by a 4,000 year leap.

Thanks for your post and sharing,
God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Taken]

When ye therefore shall see = 2nd person plural = present audience (Mt 24:15).

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:21) (KJV 1900)

It appears you have concluded Jesus was speaking TO "Them" SEEING WITH THEIR NATURAL EYES...yes?

And since "They" are all dead...
"They" must therefore have already experienced The Great Tribulation...yes?

Jesus was THEIR Teacher.
They were to go Teach Jesus' Same Words...YOU...ANYONE...during Whatever Generation...YOU Hear, YOU watch, YOU pay attention...Jesus Gave Signs...

Signs Matt:24
Buildings destroyed to rubble
False Prophets in abundance
Increased hate toward the Godly
Increased hate among men
Increased betrayal among men
Love growing cold
Iniquity in abundance

Those are Signs For the Beginning of Sorrows

Those Signs are already Beginning, and Shall Increase exponentially.

And what did Jesus say To Do, and teach others to do?

"Stand in a Holy Place".

One may be a Jew, still under the Law, having faith in God (but not in Jesus being the Christ Messiah)...run for A mountain God CALLED Holy and Stand THERE, with God.

One may be a Gentile or Jew IN Christ Jesus...That IS that person Already "Standing in a Holy Place"....IN Christ!

One may have not yet Made Their choices...
And ARE are "outside of Faith" and "not Standing in a Holy Place"....

The beginning of Sorrows is a warning...
Observing with ones own natural eyes, of the Increase of the Signs IS Notice...the Abomination of Desolation...is fast approaching...

Hear, Understand...things are not going to get Better...they are going to Increasingly get Worse...until there IS no escaping To a "Holy place" and those not Resurrected UP out of the harms way of The Great Tribulation, that will pour down upon the Earth and its inhabitants...who chose to Stand outside "of a holy place".

Did the disciples teach that to others? Yes.

Is it True "they" personally "See" the Signs and Sorrows, and those Standing with and without God and the pouring out of Great Tribulation upon the earth and its inhabitants?
Yes..
with their eyes? No
in their glorified supernatural Bodies? Yes

The Great Tribulation... as never before seen, has not yet happened.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

It appears you have concluded Jesus was speaking TO "Them" SEEING WITH THEIR NATURAL EYES...yes?

And since "They" are all dead...
"They" must therefore have already experienced The Great Tribulation...yes?

Jesus was THEIR Teacher.
They were to go Teach Jesus' Same Words...YOU...ANYONE...during Whatever Generation...YOU Hear, YOU watch, YOU pay attention...Jesus Gave Signs...

Signs Matt:24
Buildings destroyed to rubble
False Prophets in abundance
Increased hate toward the Godly
Increased hate among men
Increased betrayal among men
Love growing cold
Iniquity in abundance

Those are Signs For the Beginning of Sorrows

Those Signs are already Beginning, and Shall Increase exponentially.

And what did Jesus say To Do, and teach others to do?

"Stand in a Holy Place".

One may be a Jew, still under the Law, having faith in God (but not in Jesus being the Christ Messiah)...run for A mountain God CALLED Holy and Stand THERE, with God.

One may be a Gentile or Jew IN Christ Jesus...That IS that person Already "Standing in a Holy Place"....IN Christ!

One may have not yet Made Their choices...
And ARE are "outside of Faith" and "not Standing in a Holy Place"....

The beginning of Sorrows is a warning...
Observing with ones own natural eyes, of the Increase of the Signs IS Notice...the Abomination of Desolation...is fast approaching...

Hear, Understand...things are not going to get Better...they are going to Increasingly get Worse...until there IS no escaping To a "Holy place" and those not Resurrected UP out of the harms way of The Great Tribulation, that will pour down upon the Earth and its inhabitants...who chose to Stand outside "of a holy place".

Did the disciples teach that to others? Yes.

Is it True "they" personally "See" the Signs and Sorrows, and those Standing with and without God and the pouring out of Great Tribulation upon the earth and its inhabitants?
Yes..
with their eyes? No
in their glorified supernatural Bodies? Yes

The Great Tribulation... as never before seen, has not yet happened.

Glory to God,
Taken

Just read your bible and don't try to make it fit your ideas. Your ideas need to fit it.

 

[Dave L]

Uh huh.

So please elaborate...how you have concluded " ye shall see" and "shall be great tribulation" has Already Happened?

Glory to God,
Taken

It's history. They saw what Jesus spoke of in 70 CE.

 

[Taken]

It's history. They saw what Jesus spoke of in 70 CE.

Mind revealing what denomination you are?
And is what you said what they teach?

Glory to God,
Taken