The Bride

[Helen]

The church is the body of Christ withe Christ as the head. Just as a general is the head of an army, the president the head of the nation, etc.

It also says every part of the body has a different function and we are those parts. We are not the head, Christ is. Christ is not the arms, legs, toes, fingers, etc. Nor are the saints composing the literal body parts listed.

Yes, the Bible is literal. Figurative language is also literal when used to convey a literal message.

I guess you believe Satan is a dragon and the
AC and False Prophet are Beasts, Israel's a fig tree and all Church saints merge into one female bride.

I and my Father are one. The Father is in Me, and I in him. - My Father, and your Father; and ... my God, and your God. - I in them, and thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in one.

The Church, which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.

Having ... these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

John 17:23. Eph. 1:22,23. 2 Cor. 7:1.

 

[CoreIssue]

I and my Father are one. The Father is in Me, and I in him. - My Father, and your Father; and ... my God, and your God. - I in them, and thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in one.

The Church, which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.

Having ... these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

John 17:23. Eph. 1:22,23. 2 Cor. 7:1.

Elohim means three or more in a unity of one. As the stem of Grapes in the old testament was called a grape and a husband and wife are called one.

The head controls and functions through the body. That does not make the brain the liver, heart or stomach.

You parsed John and put you spin on it. Try reading the whole chapter.

Bible Gateway passage: John 17 - New International Version

The message here is unity of many.

 

[Helen]

....whatever....you have tunnel vision...why not ask the Holy Spirit to show you the deeper things in His word? You are stuck....blinkered...

 

[CoreIssue]

....whatever....you have tunnel vision...why not ask the Holy Spirit to show you the deeper things in His word? You are stuck....blinkered...

I have a Canadian admin on my forum. Be fun to match you guys up debating.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't see the church in the Old Testament.

Boaz the kinsman redeemer.
Naomi and Ruth.
Naomi and Ruth teach us the relationship of Israel and the church. First the physical Israel and the physical church. Flesh. We see both in the Old Testament. Israel the land and the church in a tent. We see the church in Solomon’s temple and continued (flesh and temporal) until Christ when the church becomes “made without hands” and not of this world. Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Ruth 4:13-16
[13] So Boaz took Ruth, and she was his wife: and when he went in unto her, the Lord gave her conception, and she bare a son. [14] And the women said unto Naomi, Blessed be the Lord , which hath not left thee this day without a kinsman, that his name may be famous in Israel. [15] And he shall be unto thee a restorer of thy life, and a nourisher of thine old age: for thy daughter in law, which loveth thee, which is better to thee than seven sons, hath born him. [16] And Naomi took the child, and laid it in her bosom, and became nurse unto it.

See, God did not leave Israel without a kinsman redeemer. her redeemer came through Mary (child birth) in Christ. Christ is the kinsman redeemer. “...he shall be unto Israel a restorer of life)(Spiritual life everlasting). See the oddity of Ruth has born a child and then gives the child to Naomi to nurse in her bosom.

God shows us Mary and Israel AFTER Christ. Mary (the Church) conceives of Spirit and delivers Christ, the Son of God. Our redeemer. But Mary gives her child (Jesus) to Israel (Jerusalem from above) to nurse. Mary glorified reveals the church body (glorified) who delivers spiritual children unto God and in return lay them upon the spiritual Israel to be nursed(from above). Both the church and Israel have been glorified by the Lord and have become the body and the habitation(from above). Israel (the new Jerusalem from above) and the Church (born from above) ...we are called “blessed of the Lord.” and are “fruitful” and “multiply”.

 

[farouk]

Boaz the kinsman redeemer.
Naomi and Ruth.
Naomi and Ruth teach us the relationship of Israel and the church. First the physical Israel and the physical church. Flesh. We see both in the Old Testament. Israel the land and the church in a tent. We see the church in Solomon’s temple and continued (flesh and temporal) until Christ when the church becomes “made without hands” and not of this world. Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Ruth 4:13-16
[13] So Boaz took Ruth, and she was his wife: and when he went in unto her, the Lord gave her conception, and she bare a son. [14] And the women said unto Naomi, Blessed be the Lord , which hath not left thee this day without a kinsman, that his name may be famous in Israel. [15] And he shall be unto thee a restorer of thy life, and a nourisher of thine old age: for thy daughter in law, which loveth thee, which is better to thee than seven sons, hath born him. [16] And Naomi took the child, and laid it in her bosom, and became nurse unto it.

See, God did not leave Israel without a kinsman redeemer. her redeemer came through Mary (child birth) in Christ. Christ is the kinsman redeemer. “...he shall be unto Israel a restorer of life)(Spiritual life everlasting). See the oddity of Ruth has born a child and then gives the child to Naomi to nurse in her bosom.

God shows us Mary and Israel AFTER Christ. Mary (the Church) conceives of Spirit and delivers Christ, the Son of God. Our redeemer. But Mary gives her child (Jesus) to Israel (Jerusalem from above) to nurse. Mary glorified reveals the church body (glorified) who delivers spiritual children unto God and in return lay them upon the spiritual Israel to be nursed(from above). Both the church and Israel have been glorified by the Lord and have become the body and the habitation(from above). Israel (the new Jerusalem from above) and the Church (born from above) ...we are called “blessed of the Lord.” and are “fruitful” and “multiply”.

Some wonderful principles and pictures there of divine principles.

As the specific entity of the church - the revealed mystery of a heavenly people which began in Acts 2 - I don't directly see it in the Old Testament.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

which began in Acts 2

“Revealed” in Acts 2. That doesn’t mean the church(body) was not there before Acts 2 ...but “manifested” in Acts 2. Same as Christ is throughout the OT, manifested in the New. 1 John 3:5 “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.”

Mark 4:22-23
[22] For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. [23] If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[farouk]

“Revealed” in Acts 2. That doesn’t mean the church was not there before Acts 2 ...but “manifested” in Acts 2. Same as Christ is throughout the OT, manifested in the New. 1 John 3:5 “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.”

Mark 4:22-23
[22] For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. [23] If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

I don't see it in Scripture that the church - properly speaking - was there before Pentecost. As dispensationalists often say, it's good to be clear whether one is speaking of the Jew, the Gentile or the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32).

Great verses that you quoted, though I don't see the precise construction re. the church in them that you may see.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't see it in Scripture that the church - properly speaking - was there before Pentecost. As dispensationalists often say, it's good to be clear whether one is speaking of the Jew, the Gentile or the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32).

Great verses that you quoted, though I don't see the precise construction re. the church in them that you may see.

It’s okay if we disagree. :) to me, when Jesus said to the Father “a body you prepared”... it was us (the body)that was prepared from the beginning.

 

[CoreIssue]

Just a note to consider. Do not the equate foreknowledge and preplanned as already done.

 

[Helen]

It’s okay if we disagree. :) to me, when Jesus said to the Father “a body you prepared”... it was us (the body)that was prepared from the beginning.

...

 

[Heb 13:8]

...but these verses do not say that the church is Israel.

I'm not under the law, either. Hebrews tells me that the law was changed. It also tells me that what we now have is better than the law.

Eph 3:4-10 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

7I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,

 

[amadeus]

“Revealed” in Acts 2. That doesn’t mean the church(body) was not there before Acts 2 ...but “manifested” in Acts 2. Same as Christ is throughout the OT, manifested in the New. 1 John 3:5 “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.”

Mark 4:22-23
[22] For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. [23] If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Yes! Was not the "face" already there in the OT even though it was not seen? In the NT we began to see it but it really indeed was already there. We simply have better eyes to see \and ears to hear] than did Moses or David:


"Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound." Isaiah 30:26

Consider that the moon is the OT and the sun is the NT. Those who lived their physical lives during the time of the OT could see, but was it not a very poor vision of the whole of God's plan compared to what we are able to see today even through a glass darkly? God has now provided us with better eyesight so...?


"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

 

[CoreIssue]

OT assembly is not the Church or NT church.

OT worshiped Elohim. NT Jesus.

 

[n2thelight]

Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the Angel Which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our father: who received the lively oracles to give unto us."

Who was in,and what was the Church in the wilderness?

 

[charity]

Hello there,

Everywhere I look on the forum this morning I see it advocated that the present day church is Israel.
I find this alarming, that so many hold this deception as truth.

Get back to the Word of God, and read and believe what is written for our learning: not impose upon the text the product of your own understanding, for you are doing despite to the Word of God by your reasoning.

In Jesus Name I ask it,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[farouk]

Hello there,

Everywhere I look on the forum this morning I see it advocated that the present day church is Israel.
I find this alarming, that so many hold this deception as truth.

Get back to the Word of God, and read and believe what is written for our learning: not impose upon the text the product of your own understanding, for you are doing despite to the Word of God by your reasoning.

In Jesus Name I ask it,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

In 1 Corinthians 10.32 there three clearly distinct groups: Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

 

[n2thelight]

In 1 Corinthians 10.32 there three clearly distinct groups: Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

Only two,since the Garden,you belong to one,Tree of Life or the other tree whom is satan

 

[n2thelight]

Replacement theology.

Show me Jesus in the flesh in the OT.

The Holy Spirit has no wife. Christ has a Bride now No wife until the Wedding in Heaven during the Trib.

Marriage Super of the Lamb

Melchizedek

 

[Enoch111]

I find this alarming, that so many hold this deception as truth.

Yes indeed it is alarming that even though Christians have God's Word in their hands, many choose to either distort what God says or ignore it. And when people are wilfully blind, seeing they will not see, and hearing they will not hear.

Tampering with God's Word and God's truth began in Eden. Both Satan and Eve distorted the Word, and as a result the human race and the universe paid a heavy price. Of course, Adam is primarily held responsible, since he failed to do what he had been appointed to do.