Blotted out of The Book Of Life?

[bbyrd009]

Ah, did I get it backwards again, please forgive me :)

lol
all i have is opinions. amd we all know what those are like i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

God came in the flesh and was born in a stable for millenia?

i grew up believing that Jesus was an original, and the others, previous, were satanic counterfeits too, Heb. But i am increasingly coming to suspect that the model was utilized--like so many other popular and enduring mythologies from other cultures that are used in Scripture--bc of the possibility of connecting with the most ppl, and gaining the widest acceptance. Similar to all the Greek gods in our Bible right now; popular symbolism--iow what we now even deem "pagan symbolism"--is used to express truth in Scripture.

Seems like an oxymoron i guess huh. Yet there it is, all over the Bible. I could list ten examples easily, and there are many more i'm sure.

 

[Kristian Gamst]

Jesus says He never knew them, not that He did know them and they later fell away.
1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

I actually never mentioned that they knew Jesus. I said by them trying to cast of demons in the name of Jesus, they have to be saved because no one can cast out a devil without being saved. I only mentioned that He had to know them because they drived out demons. That was the context.

 

[Kristian Gamst]

Rom 8:33, the elect are born again Christians KG.

Yes, and that is my Whole point. They were born again christians, that can fall away from faith. Thats what i tried to say through my post

 

[Nancy]

Noone is disputing PEOPLE can LOSE their Salvation.

You use the pronoun, "with assurance" that "you can lose your salvation".

Salvation IS a Provision. A gift the Lord Himself came out from God, down to Earth, "TO OFFER" to EVERY Person IN the World.

I am not sure HOW you understand Gifts, BUT it has a two party involvement....

The Giver, which is already established is Christ.

And the Receiver, which is already established as Every person in the World.

The OFFERING, To every man, MAKES the GIFT "every mans". It is a GIFT "AVAILABLE" to Every man.

OFFERING, does NOT mean RECEIVING.
The GIFT is OFFERED; NOT FORCED on any man TO RECEIVE.

The individual persons HAVE a clear cut Scriptural teaching OF HOW TO Receive the Lords Gift of Salvation.

The individual persons HAVE a clear cut Scriptural teaching OF WHAT the Receiving of the Lords Gift of Salvation Entails and MEANS.

The Lord is NOT a liar, or Wishy washy.
Any man may ELECT to FREELY Choose to RECEIVE His GIFT, "according to His WAY" as Scripturally revealed............OR NOT.

Hearing, Learning, following, believing, DOES NOT EQUAL RECEIVING the Lords Gift of Salvation.

Hearing, Learning, following, believing.....
Absolutely are things a man CAN DO...and STOP doing AT ANY TIME....

And Yes, ANY MAN doing those things, and THEN STOP DOING THOSE THINGS....HAS JEOPARDIZED RECEIVING Salvation that the Lord has OFFERED Him.

If such man CONTINUES Rejecting, Yes, he will "LOSE" his Salvation.....BECAUSE he "NEVER" "accepted" RECEIVING the Lord Offering of His Gift of Salvation.....and such man WILL DIE "IN" his sins, WITHOUT forgiveness, and WITHOUT Salvation, and WITHOUT a Quickened born again spirit, and WITHOUT the indwelling Holy Spirit, and WITHOUT thee Lord God Almighty.

~~~~AND~~~~

A person WHO ELECTS AND CHOOSES "TO" heartfully "ACCEPT" the Lords Gift of Salvation...The Lord Himself "GIVES" His "OFFERED" Gift "TO" "THAT" person....
ONCE and FOREVER....and THAT is called according to the Lord Himself...;
A Forever Conversion.

YOU "ASSURING" Every person that "THEIR" Salvation can BE LOST....IS FALSE and NOT BIBLICAL.

The TRUTH IS.....
Every person NOT Converted, CAN and WILL lose their Salvation the Lord has "OFFERED", Because they DID NOT Elect and Choose TO ACCEPT and Receive His Gift.

And EVERY person WHO IS Converted, SHALL NEVER LOSE the Lords Gift OFFERING of Salvation and THEIR RECEIVING OF His Offered Gift.

God Bless,
Taken

WORD!

 

[Kristian Gamst]

​

Let me know if you see the contradiction (of non-osas) in the Synoptic Gospels..

Matt 13:21 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Mark 4:17 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Luke 8:13 (uses the word believe) (aphistémi/depart)
Rom 8:35, 38-39 (nothing can separate us, even trouble/persecution)
1 Tim 4:1 ( aphistémi/depart)

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Rom 8:35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Luke 8:13 / Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - which for a while believe: their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped:

God bless

Hi! I actually think they are not contradictary to each other. It may sound weird, but i will explain.
For example Matthew 13,21 and Mark 4,17, as you quote, says that they fell away because of persecution/troubles as you mention. But then how does Romans 8,35, 38-39 fit in? I think this is your question. I actually think that they can be one. Because persecution and troubles will not seperate us from God unless we ourselves seperate us from Him. Because persecution will not seperate us from Him, because He will keep us if we keep ourselves in Him, unless we ourselves let it seperate us. It is Our Choice. Because persecution and troubles alone will not seperate us from God unless we allow it to. So my conclusion is that persecution and troubles alone will not seperate us from God unless we allow it to. Actually persecution often makes us stronger. Because like gold, we need to be refined, og through hardship. But it can destroy us, only if we let it. I hope i didn't repeat myself too much, hope i made it Clear to you.
God bless you!

 

[Kristian Gamst]

And who is it that overcomes in Rev 3:5, it is the one who believes in the death, burial and resurrection 1 Jhn 5:4-5.

2 Pet 2 chapter is in reference to false teachers and prophets, those who never came to faith in Jesus Christ.

God bless.

Yes, and when you have faith because you are an overcomer, you will keep yourselves in Him. When you believe in Him you do what He says, and then you will always rise from a fall. Because if you really believe what i say you will do all that i tell you, becaise you believe it is the best for you.

That doesn't change the fact. He talks about that they have (past) known it. So they knew Jesus, but now has left there faith in Him and have become false Teachers. It talks about that they once believed, but know has fallen from the faith.

 

[Kristian Gamst]

Noone is disputing PEOPLE can LOSE their Salvation.

You use the pronoun, "with assurance" that "you can lose your salvation".

Salvation IS a Provision. A gift the Lord Himself came out from God, down to Earth, "TO OFFER" to EVERY Person IN the World.

I am not sure HOW you understand Gifts, BUT it has a two party involvement....

The Giver, which is already established is Christ.

And the Receiver, which is already established as Every person in the World.

The OFFERING, To every man, MAKES the GIFT "every mans". It is a GIFT "AVAILABLE" to Every man.

OFFERING, does NOT mean RECEIVING.
The GIFT is OFFERED; NOT FORCED on any man TO RECEIVE.

The individual persons HAVE a clear cut Scriptural teaching OF HOW TO Receive the Lords Gift of Salvation.

The individual persons HAVE a clear cut Scriptural teaching OF WHAT the Receiving of the Lords Gift of Salvation Entails and MEANS.

The Lord is NOT a liar, or Wishy washy.
Any man may ELECT to FREELY Choose to RECEIVE His GIFT, "according to His WAY" as Scripturally revealed............OR NOT.

Hearing, Learning, following, believing, DOES NOT EQUAL RECEIVING the Lords Gift of Salvation.

Hearing, Learning, following, believing.....
Absolutely are things a man CAN DO...and STOP doing AT ANY TIME....

And Yes, ANY MAN doing those things, and THEN STOP DOING THOSE THINGS....HAS JEOPARDIZED RECEIVING Salvation that the Lord has OFFERED Him.

If such man CONTINUES Rejecting, Yes, he will "LOSE" his Salvation.....BECAUSE he "NEVER" "accepted" RECEIVING the Lord Offering of His Gift of Salvation.....and such man WILL DIE "IN" his sins, WITHOUT forgiveness, and WITHOUT Salvation, and WITHOUT a Quickened born again spirit, and WITHOUT the indwelling Holy Spirit, and WITHOUT thee Lord God Almighty.

~~~~AND~~~~

A person WHO ELECTS AND CHOOSES "TO" heartfully "ACCEPT" the Lords Gift of Salvation...The Lord Himself "GIVES" His "OFFERED" Gift "TO" "THAT" person....
ONCE and FOREVER....and THAT is called according to the Lord Himself...;
A Forever Conversion.

YOU "ASSURING" Every person that "THEIR" Salvation can BE LOST....IS FALSE and NOT BIBLICAL.

The TRUTH IS.....
Every person NOT Converted, CAN and WILL lose their Salvation the Lord has "OFFERED", Because they DID NOT Elect and Choose TO ACCEPT and Receive His Gift.

And EVERY person WHO IS Converted, SHALL NEVER LOSE the Lords Gift OFFERING of Salvation and THEIR RECEIVING OF His Offered Gift.

God Bless,
Taken

Just think logical: cannot you lose a gift you have been given? You can throw it away, so surely you can lose it.
I can give you what may be the clearest verse in the Bible that tells you that you can surely lose Your salvation in Christ:

'For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.' - Hebrews 6:4-6

If you can deny that you can lose Your salvation on this verse you actually just deny it because you don't like it. It is Clear that someone who has once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come you have certaintly been saved. The Author of the book Writes all these things so that it is Clear to us that this person once was saved. If the Author of hebrews just mentions the possibility of losing salvation there is a reason, and that is that it can happen.

Hope I am being Clear. God bless you!

 

[Helen]

lol
all i have is opinions. and we all know what those are like i guess

Oh how I wish that everyone had that revelation...but it is a rare thing.esp on forums!!
We can so easily see the difference of spirit in how people post.
The rare few add IMHO or IMO :)

 

[Heb 13:8]

Yes, and that is my Whole point. They were born again christians, that can fall away from faith. Thats what i tried to say through my post

No, the 17 things mentioned in Rom 8:35, 38-39 cannot separate us. Read again.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Because persecution and troubles will not seperate us from God unless we ourselves seperate us from Him.

"Unless we ourselves seperate us from Him"....... no, you're adding your own works to your salvation. the blood of Christ paid for all sin KG. Remember, Christians work out their salvation, not work for. God's finished work on the cross is what brings you to completeness, not yours.

Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,

Phil 1:6 being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will continue to perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Phil 2:12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

God bless

 

[Heb 13:8]

Yes, and when you have faith because you are an overcomer, you will keep yourselves in Him. When you believe in Him you do what He says, and then you will always rise from a fall. Because if you really believe what i say you will do all that i tell you, becaise you believe it is the best for you.

That doesn't change the fact. He talks about that they have (past) known it. So they knew Jesus, but now has left there faith in Him and have become false Teachers. It talks about that they once believed, but know has fallen from the faith.

Overcoming is only through belief in the death, burial and resurrection, believing in the finished work of the cross KG. 1 Jhn 5:4-5

Jhn 16:33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

God bless.

 

[Kristian Gamst]

No, the 17 things mentioned in Rom 8:35, 38-39 cannot separate us. Read again.

I will just refer to what I have writed before. I wrote earlier that all the Things that cannot seperate us from the love of God misses YOURSELF. You are the only one who can seperate yourself from the love of God.

 

[Kristian Gamst]

"Unless we ourselves seperate us from Him"....... no, you're adding your own works to your salvation. the blood of Christ paid for all sin KG. Remember, Christians work out their salvation, not work for. God's finished work on the cross is what brings you to completeness, not yours.

Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,

Phil 1:6 being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will continue to perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Phil 2:12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

God bless

Jude 1,21:
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

But why does Jude Write that we have to keep ouverselves in the love of God? That is something YOU have to do. That is the ONLY thing we have to do. So I am not saying that salvation is by Works. Not at all. It's all by Grace! But if you keep yourselves in His love and don't leave it He will change Your life to His. And that Whole process is HIS work. We just keep oursleves in Him, and he will do the rest.
God bless

 

[Kristian Gamst]

Overcoming is only through belief in the death, burial and resurrection, believing in the finished work of the cross KG. 1 Jhn 5:4-5

Jhn 16:33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

God bless.

That is what 1 John 5,4-5 (NKJV) says, this is what it says:
'For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?'
It tells us to that the overcomers have won by FAITH. And the faith is in that Jesus is the Son of God.

Be blessed!

 

[LC627]

I actually never mentioned that they knew Jesus. I said by them trying to cast of demons in the name of Jesus, they have to be saved because no one can cast out a devil without being saved. I only mentioned that He had to know them because they drived out demons. That was the context.

Matthew 7:21 makes it clear that only those who do the will of the Father will enter Heaven.
These people did not lose salvation - they never had it. Jesus "never" knew them.
Just because a person says they are a Christian and does great works in the name of Jesus does not mean they're saved.
Many honor Christ with their lips but their hearts are far from Him.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I will just refer to what I have writed before. I wrote earlier that all the Things that cannot seperate us from the love of God misses YOURSELF. You are the only one who can seperate yourself from the love of God.

KG, who else are you but yourself? God is referring to the elect in Rom 8:33, which are people in Christ!!

 

[Heb 13:8]

Jude 1,21:
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

But why does Jude Write that we have to keep ouverselves in the love of God? That is something YOU have to do. That is the ONLY thing we have to do. So I am not saying that salvation is by Works. Not at all. It's all by Grace! But if you keep yourselves in His love and don't leave it He will change Your life to His. And that Whole process is HIS work. We just keep oursleves in Him, and he will do the rest.
God bless

I dunno, you tell me. Is God in contradiction, or is He simply giving Christians encouragement.

Jude 1:1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:

 

[Heb 13:8]

That is what 1 John 5,4-5 (NKJV) says, this is what it says:
'For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?'
It tells us to that the overcomers have won by FAITH. And the faith is in that Jesus is the Son of God.

Be blessed!

Yes, faith in the finished work of the cross KG. It is finished at the cross. Our works are but filthy rags, Isa 64:6.

 

[LC627]

@Kristian Gamst you said..."So I am not saying that salvation is by Works"

If you do anything that causes a change in your salvation then it is by works.

We didn't earn our salvation and none of us deserve it (myself included) Let's take the focus off us because when it comes down to it, we all fail, and let's rely on the grace of God and not anything we do.

Maintaining salvation by works is the desire for your own control / power. You hold your salvation, you have the power over it. Which gives you room to boast. A truly born again believer will naturally desire to serve/obey God in their new nature.

If you have room to boast then the root is pride, and pride is misdirected because instead of singing "How great Thou art" to God, you're singing it to yourself.