Are these two great contradictions of the Catholic Faith

[chandlere880]

Hello Friends

is there anyone who would be interested or knowledgeable or even someone such as myself seeking knowledge concerning the faith and claims of our Catholic friends.


Catechism Of The Catholic Church

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: ” Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its " procreative " and unitive purposes


The Catholic Church teaches that condoms - birth control, and any means of avoiding or deviating away from the fertizilating the egg with the sperm while having intercourse - is unholy, - sexual intercourse cannot be just for enjoyment with your wife or husband


Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its " procreation " fertilization , to furthering the DNA - GENETICS to be passed down through a conception ...

II. The Vocation to Chastity # 2351
https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_three/section_two/chapter_two/article_6/ii_the_vocation_to_chastity.html


Furthermore

Roman Catholic Father - St. Augustine, demands that “ Sexual desire a significant role in original sin's transmission, - sexual intercourse is the daughter of sin, is also the mother of sin ... LUST - Lust becomes causally involved in the transmission of original sin ...

Sexual lust thereby becomes not merely a symbol of carnal concupiscence, but its cause.

this is basic foundation of all Catholic Teaching regarding sex and Original Sin


The Reality is that the Catholic Church demands that because Jesus was not born with sexual intercourse by an earthly Father, he was completely free from Original sin, the Roman Catholic believes that original sin is CAUSE AND EFFECT and by the literal sex act - by having a sexual interaction - a man and woman having romantic relations, this is what has literally CAUSED ALL to be born with original sin - the sex act itself causes the sin - sex is sinful but tolerated by God


THIS IS WHY MARY'S VIRGINITY IS SO IMPORTANT TO ROMAN CATHOLICS

BECAUSE - Mary was PURE - HOLY , SEXUALLY PERFECT - - - Mary was guarding her virginity - abstaining from having sex - Mary was righteous - Holy Virgin -

the Roman Catholic believes that Jesus is FREE of Original sin because he was not born from sperm and egg conception with an earthly father. But this is contradicted by the fact that both Adam and Eve were born without the sex act,


both Adam and Eve were born without a human father or an earthly mother - yet this Immaculate Creation of Adam and Eve - this did not help them or prevent them from committing sin, this did nothing for them even though they were not born nor created from a sexual act.


Adam and Eve even lived at a time where purity was at its most powerful and potent form and they both existed as the very best potential and perfect example possible, purity was at the strongest and most powerful and purest form that has ever existed for human kind


And still their decision and temptation and weakness to commit immoral acts, to sin, to defile their bodies and disobey God’ s commandment was not prevented - by the state and the situation , the status , and circumstance and condition “ Immaculately Created “ they were not even born from human mother nor father nor created by any sexual relations - __


Do Catholics deny that Jesus had “ FREE WILL “ ?

Was the Roman Catholic Jesus free from all temptation and someone who did not have “ FREE WILL “ ?

is this what Catholics seem to suggest. ?

In conclusion, another great contradiction is the following Roman Catholic Catechism teaching



Catechism of the Catholic Church - Second Edition - # 404
""_ The transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. _""

but is this not simply an untruthful contradiction, there are 66 total books of the bible that clearly explain what original sin means

these scriptures explain in complete detail the understanding of Original Sin. The Bible fully explains what caused Original SIn and the result and effect and the solution that God has provided to remedy the original sin.


How can Roman Catholics resolve and explain these 2 great contradictions ?

For Roman Catholics to demand that being created without the sex act prevents someone from committing sin - and removes the choice, and Free Will and also Temptation ........

Why do Catholics deny that Jesus was faced with the challenge of “ FREE WILL “ and temptation, and was tempted in all the ways that all humans are, just as Adam and Eve but Jesus overcame his own will , denied himself and submitted to the will of God. ?


For Roman Catholics to demand that -- The transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand

Why do Catholics deny that God has fully explained the cause and effect of the curse of Original Sin and has also provided the clear remedy. ?

 

[PGS11]

Its not passed on sexually and no one has ever claimed that it was how did you ever get that idea in your head.You are born in a fallen state.
Adam and Eve were not in a fallen state until the fall of humanity happened and it has nothing to do with sex its a condition you inherit at birth.

You can never understand or explain you fallen state you will think its perfectly normal that nothing is wrong and that it never happened. People don't even believe in it anymore they think Christianity is about something else they are just in love with the philosophy and being right in a argument.Atheist.

Jesus was not in a fallen state or he could not make the sacrifice it would of been pointless and would of failed.He is God taken on human flesh and a soul to save humility to raise his soul from the dead because you can't ascend to heaven in your fallen state.He was not just a mere man.Catholics do not deny Jesus was tempted but that he was sinless and he had to be to make the sacrifice. God can over come all temptations or do you deny his divinity.It why he was able to be sinless he is God not some mere human .Do you clearly understand who Jesus is?

More people will go to hell for sexual sins more than any other sins committed that is a fact.

We need salvation because we are in a fallen state which is what the effect of original sin is which the Catholic Church clearly teaches just like in every other christian church.
The effect of original sin is that you cannot ascend to heaven because of your fallen state only in Christ can that happen.How did it happen - Satan and the fallen angel plunged us into a fallen state and how many people actuality believe that I bet not very many. It was their goal to put us in a fallen state so we cannot ascend to heaven right from the very beginning they hated humanity God creation of us and will do anything to prevent any souls from entering heaven..Its why Jesus came what do you think he is saving you from..

The remedy is there salvation by faith in the death and resurrection of Christ like in every other christian church.You are saved by faith.

 

[PGS11]

The reason why Mary is thought to be sinless is because the Catholic Church believes she was also NOT in a fallen state and there for capable of not sinning - its why you sin.This is believed because it is though that Jesus could not take on fallen Flesh so Mary could not be in a fallen state or Jesus would of had to take on fallen flesh.Its called the immaculate conception and only Catholics believe it.It makes sense.That God the Father prepared Mary at birth for the coming of Christ and salvation rather than just picking some random Jewish woman in a fallen state.which is certainly not something God would do.God the Father prepares for everything.

 

[chandlere880]

yes " PGS11 "

we can agree on everything that you have replied about, however you seem to forget or simply did not have a chance to read my initial statement ​

​

the fact that Rome teaches that of Mary, __ through her Sexual Conception Itself __ the very detailed and precise way she was sexually conceived by sexual intercourse ​

- the exact way in which the very romance and sexual penetration occurred between her mother and father ​

the very sex act between the mother and father of Mary was overshadowed by a miracle wherein the seed of her father was itself sperm / seed that was filtrated - strained, sifted or purified sperm - " cleaned sperm " - purified perm / SEED that had been miraculously refined and treated and filtered by God, to make adjustments upon the corrupted and dirty sperm of her father.

the Catholic Church demands that - Sexual desire is a significant role in original sin's transmission,

that - sexual intercourse is the daughter of sin, is also the mother of sin ...

- Lust becomes causally involved in the transmission of original sin ...

Sexual lust thereby becomes not merely a symbol of carnal concupiscence, but its cause.

and ---------- sex is the very cause of Original Sin .................

this is why Mary was given the " GIFT " wherein the corrupted seed or sperm emitted or ejected from her father did not corrupt her conception, God performed a miracle at the precise and very moment of her conception as her fathers seed fertilized the egg of her mother, God, by a miracle, during sex - -
he - " REMOVED THE STAIN AND DIRT AND FILTH OF THE SPERM ITSELF AND THE SIN OF THE LUST AND PASSION AND ROMANCE AND THE TRANSMISSION OF ORIGINAL SIN THROUGH SEXUAL LUST """

this is what Rome demands.

Rome believes 2 things

1........ that Mary's Conception through sexual intercourse , " conceived in sexual intercourse " would have produced baby Mary who was born in Original Sin

God had to miraculously remove the stain of romance, lust, pleasure and the sin of intimacy and the stain , dirt and filth and evil introduced also by her fathers sperm

without this miracle, - the romance, lust, intimacy and togetherness and the man and wife bond and ejaculated seed would have passed Original Sin to Mary

2........ that Jesus Conception also , any lust or any sexual intercourse as husband and wife, any sexual pleasure, romance or intimate bonding between husband and wife - would have produced a baby Jesus who was born in Original Sin

both are the same Catholic Miracle - this is why the Priests and Vatican Primates and Nuns go through their entire lives hiding their sexuality and lust and sexual deeds from all of society they believe, teach and live lives to model and pattern a glorification that having a spouse or a husband or wife or any desire to have children would make them ungodly and unholy or move them further away from perfection and righteousness.,

just the thought of getting married and having husband and wife relations would terminate and completely end a priests or nuns position and rank and status in the church, marriage is a - career ending, shame, banishment from rank and a contract breaker...

a Mary - born with a miraculous cleansing of the husbands and wife lust, passion and intimacy and fertilization during their sexual intercourse

a Jesus - born with a miraculous Virgin birth, with no husband , no romance, no lust and no fertilization and no sex

I agree with everything you say in your reply's and thank you for taking the time to respond but when we read the Scriptures we find major contradictions with the faith and demands of Rome.

Rome teaches a narrative that Mary retained and upheld and stayed faithful to the position of being free of sin because she remained a perpetual virgin.

had she not remained a virgin and became a wife and had children she would have never been seen as without Original Sin

this is the way the Roman Catholic Church has progressed in its revolving and changing and adaptive teaching, it changes and adapts and evolves because it uses Biblical narratives as a launchpad to incorporate other pagan popular theological aspects that have no foundation in scripture, creating contradiction, deception and manipulation, always working to use its evolution to promote its own self worth, power, glory and riches and dominance - independently and contrarily to scripture .

 

[chandlere880]

hey again " PGS11 "

i really enjoyed reading and learning more about your faith and was enlightened to learn and much of what you have written I fully agree.

Can we think a little more about what I was trying to explain, how that we remember that both Adam and Eve were both created and came into existence without " SEXUAL INTERCOURSE "

Adam and Eve were - Immaculately Created

yet this did nothing for them in preventing them from refraining from rebelling against God and being deceived. We remember " Cain " whom was the firstborn son that was ever born upon the earth, Cain, he was so far removed from the genetic breakdown of the body than anyone that he lived to be 700 years old

Cain was much, much more pure and further removed and free from " Original Sin " than anyone today that he lived almost 1000 years yet,

= Cain violently murdered his little brother.

I just simply do not agree that Catholicism has a realistic, truthful and meaningful scriptural teaching about " Original Sin " as far as being created or conceived without sexual intercourse existing as a remedy to keep one from committing sin or disobedience .

I completely agree on most of what you said and i love what you had said about God " Pre Planning "

Please consider my point of view that

Jesus was physically fully man, and spiritually fully God

Jesus was fully born in a body that was completely corrupted and cursed by " Original Sin "

Jesus was
​

Act 2:30 ....... of the fruit of his loins of King David - according to the flesh
Rom 1:3 .... made of the seed of David - according to the flesh;

Jesus was
​

Heb 2:7 & 9 made a little lower than the angels :9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels

Please remember that Angels whom are spirits, Angels, they do commit sin and disobey God - Angels have no special defense to overcome sin, rebellion and to resist committing evil acts.

Angels., ----- they must fight to overcome their own desires, self interests and have self control and commit to worship and obey and love God

yet we see Jesus made a little lower than the angels

​

Heb 5: explains
:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

:2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

:3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

:5 So,, also, Christ glorified NOT himself - to be made an high priest; - - meaning = { in bodily form )
The scriptures clearly make this point - Rom 1:3 … … his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh..

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son - IN THE LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH, AND FOR SIN, - condemned sin in the flesh:

God sent his own Son - IN THE LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH - in the likeness of Mary … … reproduction of sinful flesh, Jesus was sent to the world for the VERY, VERY PURPOSE to be fashioned, created and made in the image and similarity and likeness of sinful flesh the seed of sinful man - ,, for sake of our sin he was made - he died unto sin

NOT TAKING AUTHORITY TO BE EQUALLY GOD. BUT HIMSELF, EMPTY / VOID MORPH OF A SERVANT, RECEIVING IN THE LIKENESS OF MANKIND, HE BECAME.

Rom 1:3 … … his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh
Joh 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David
2Ti 2:8 …Jesus Christ of the seed of David .

 

[chandlere880]

could it be that God pre planned, pre ordained everything to be set into order to ensure that Jesus would meet the right people and be ministered to and strengthened and guided by the Angels and other obedient servants who were all guided by the Spirit of God and all Jesus had to do was simply commit and submit and lay aside his own fleshly nature and love the God that was within him.

and that Jesus loved and enjoyed and was happy living an obedient life to God because the Spirit of God was within him - but the hardest part was laying down his life

How Can Catholics say that Jesus was born without the physical effects and free of the curse of Original Sin ?

did he not in fact die and succumb under the curse of Original Sin being weak in the body and able to be put to death,

whereas Adam and Eve before they sinned were not able to be put to death, being free of Original Sin and having immorality

 

[kukrasdeluxe]

The reason why Mary is thought to be sinless is because the Catholic Church believes she was also NOT in a fallen state and there for capable of not sinning - its why you sin.This is believed because it is though that Jesus could not take on fallen Flesh so Mary could not be in a fallen state or Jesus would of had to take on fallen flesh.Its called the immaculate conception and only Catholics believe it.It makes sense.That God the Father prepared Mary at birth for the coming of Christ and salvation rather than just picking some random Jewish woman in a fallen state.which is certainly not something God would do.God the Father prepares for everything.







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Catholics believe Mary was sinless due to the Immaculate Conception, meaning she was preserved from original sin so Jesus wouldn't inherit fallen flesh. It’s seen as part of God’s plan, not just a random choice.

 

[PGS11]

Yep that is what I said and also because she was not in a fallen state she could ascend to heaven at death without Christ.Thats going to tick a lot of people off who will deny it and say that she was full of sin..We cannot ascend because we are in a fallen state.As I said God did not just pick some random Jewish woman Mary was chosen by God the Father himself when man fell from grace.Or do you think Gods plan for salvation was a work in the making and never planned.
The Father haphazardly picking any women as the mother of Jesus makes no sense it ridicules. God the father would never do that everything for salvation was planned from the very beginning when man fell from Grace.
I am a Catholic always have been have at me and say I'm not a Christian I have heard it all before.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The Catholic Church teaches that condoms - birth control ...

Well, in a sense, it is preventing and/or killing the creative process of God.

St. Augustine, demands that “ Sexual desire a significant role in original sin's transmission

I think he was wrong. Original sin is passed on to us spiritually, not physically. We are born with dead spirits.

Catholic Church demands that because Jesus was not born with sexual intercourse by an earthly Father, he was completely free from Original sin,

He was without sin because He is GOD. Sin did not dwell in the members of his flesh like ours AND Mary's btw. She was not without sin. I can see how if their theology teaches that sin is passed down physically through the father's seed, they would believe that. Then they would have create a stipulation such as "She must have purified since her father had a corrupted seed." So they created this immaculate conception. Where is that in the Bible? Mary was blessed (happy) and we can say she was holy (set apart for God's purpose). Surely God guided every move of her motherhood and Joseph's fatherhood as well. As Catholics claim, to be fair, "The transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand." Which kind of excuses their error in their relative theology.
Jesus was not born with a dead spirit. His spirit came down and "became flesh". So Jesus' spirit, soul and flesh were pure.
So with their flawed basis, which I suppose was started by Augustine, further distortions arise as a result.
Lust of the flesh is not just sexual, it carries a wide of desires.
Sexual sin btw, is not the worst sin. It is a sin against yourself.
Sexual desire is part of our makeup and is supposed to be a sacred act between husband and wife. But between them, it is not only for procreation. It may take dozens of attempts, months, to finally get pregnant. Are we to think our enjoyment is lacking everytime just because we aren't conceiving. Maybe if you read the Song of Solomon you may think differently. We certainly enjoy the climax. If there wasn't such an intense pleasure, I suppose there wouldn't be that many people on earth.

 

[Jericho]

Not a Catholic but married to one. It seems to me a lot of distinctly Catholic theology does not scriptural backing but is built upon what previous church fathers have said and has become accepted as the gospel truth.

The reason why Mary is thought to be sinless is because the Catholic Church believes she was also NOT in a fallen state and there for capable of not sinning - its why you sin.This is believed because it is though that Jesus could not take on fallen Flesh so Mary could not be in a fallen state or Jesus would of had to take on fallen flesh.Its called the immaculate conception and only Catholics believe it.It makes sense.That God the Father prepared Mary at birth for the coming of Christ and salvation rather than just picking some random Jewish woman in a fallen state.which is certainly not something God would do.God the Father prepares for everything.

If Mary had two human parents, and there's no reason to believe otherwise, then she couldn't have been sinless. The reason why Jesus was sinless was because he didn't have two human parents, one was divine. God bypassed our sinful nature, which seems to be passed on through the male, by using Himself.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Not a Catholic but married to one. It seems to me a lot of distinctly Catholic theology does not scriptural backing but is built upon what previous church fathers have said and has become accepted as the gospel truth.

The ECF’s were not inspired by God because none of their writings made it into Scripture.…which means that not a single Catholic was used to write any verse of Scripture…..but that doesn’t mean that they didn’t alter the meaning of Bible passages to support their imported doctrines. The whole of Christendom‘s belief system is based on a Catholic foundation. This is because the church kept the Bible away from the common people for centuries, dictating what they alleged that it taught. No one but the priests had access to it….and if it wasn’t for a brave Catholic priest named Martin Luther, the Reformation would never have taken place….and the Bible would never have been placed back into the hands of the people to read and to evaluate its teachings for themselves.

Luther took the church to task over its many false teachings and practices. But rather than reform, the church excommunicated him. In the Reformation that followed, the more ridiculous doctrines were discarded, such as the immaculate conception of Mary, purgatory, and the supremacy of the Pope as “the Vicar of Christ”….

Of the pope of the Roman Catholic Church, Ferraris’ ecclesiastical dictionarya says:

“The pope is of such dignity and highness that he is not simply a man but, as it were, God, and the Vicar of God. . . . Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven, of earth and of hell. . . .
The pope is, as it were, God on earth, the only prince of the faithful of Christ, the greatest king of all kings, possessing the plenitude of power; to whom the government of the earthly and heavenly kingdom is entrusted. . . . The pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, declare or interpret the divine law. . . .”

I can hardly believe the audacity of such statements as the Pope is a sinful man like the rest of humanity.
Reading about them and their woeful history makes me shake my head….

Who gave him this authority? Not Jesus….as all authority was “given“ to him both in heaven and on earth. (Matt 28:18) Jesus gave no such authority to anyone except his apostles who form the very foundation of his Kingdom.
The reason why God chose 12 apostles is because a man is corruptible when given total power.
“Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”…so the saying goes, and this is demonstrated so clearly in any dictatorship….which is what the RCC became to the people, using the fear of hell to beat them into submission. The church has a cruel and bloody history which is there for anyone to read.

The RCC likes to take credit for the canon, but it is God’s word, not man’s. By the time the Bible was translated into common languages, the Roman church had been devolving into apostasy for a very long time, so that bias towards the trinity was seen in the way passages were written and interpreted. Many false doctrines were carried over in the Reformation because they were so deeply ingrained in the minds of the people, that they still exist to this day.

If Mary had two human parents, and there's no reason to believe otherwise, then she couldn't have been sinless. The reason why Jesus was sinless was because he didn't have two human parents, one was divine. God bypassed our sinful nature, which seems to be passed on through the male, by using Himself.

This is the point they miss…..Jesus had to be human, but he was not God. No human can kill an immortal God. In order to redeem mankind, all Jesus needed to be was sinless, not immortal…..a choice on his part to remain without sin during his short life on earth.
He had no inheritance of sin from Adam because his Father was God. He was born through a woman but inherited no genetics from her. Her role was to legitimize Jesus as Messiah, since she was a descendant of King David….one of the identifying marks of his kingly role….and the fact that she was a virgin, eliminating any earthly father.

Jesus had to repay what Adam took away from his children…that was everlasting life in paradise on earth.
Nowhere is it said that earth was a training ground for heaven.

God designed this earth for man….and man for life on earth. The devil derailed God’s first purpose by stealing the human race from God by deception, meaning that angels too have free will, just like we do. The difference with angels is that they have no natural cause of death as we mortals do, with sin inherited from Adam. (Rom 5:12) God is the only one who can destroy them.

Before the fall, humans had wonderful prospects, filling the earth with their children and transforming the land outside of the garden into a paradise of pleasure….death was not mentioned except as a penalty for disobedience…..so if Adam had not sinned, he never would have died. (Gen 3:22-24)

Rev 21:2-4 tells us that God’s first purpose will be reinstated, with a restoration of the human race back to sinless perfection during the thousand year reign of Christ…death will be no more and there will never be suffering or pain to plague the human race again, as it is now from so many sources.

The RCC has much to answer for and I have no doubt that God will deal with her appropriately…..she is part of “Babylon the great“, but so are all the churches who continue to teach her false doctrines. We must remove ourselves from all false religion, (Rev 18:4-5) because very soon God will bring this world under satan to an accounting….where will we find ourselves?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hello Friends

is there anyone who would be interested or knowledgeable or even someone such as myself seeking knowledge concerning the faith and claims of our Catholic friends.

Catechism Of The Catholic Church

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: ” Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its " procreative " and unitive purposes

The Catholic Church teaches that condoms - birth control, and any means of avoiding or deviating away from the fertizilating the egg with the sperm while having intercourse - is unholy, - sexual intercourse cannot be just for enjoyment with your wife or husband

Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its " procreation " fertilization , to furthering the DNA - GENETICS to be passed down through a conception ...

II. The Vocation to Chastity # 2351
https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_three/section_two/chapter_two/article_6/ii_the_vocation_to_chastity.html

Furthermore

Roman Catholic Father - St. Augustine, demands that “ Sexual desire a significant role in original sin's transmission, - sexual intercourse is the daughter of sin, is also the mother of sin ... LUST - Lust becomes causally involved in the transmission of original sin ...

Sexual lust thereby becomes not merely a symbol of carnal concupiscence, but its cause.

this is basic foundation of all Catholic Teaching regarding sex and Original Sin

The Reality is that the Catholic Church demands that because Jesus was not born with sexual intercourse by an earthly Father, he was completely free from Original sin, the Roman Catholic believes that original sin is CAUSE AND EFFECT and by the literal sex act - by having a sexual interaction - a man and woman having romantic relations, this is what has literally CAUSED ALL to be born with original sin - the sex act itself causes the sin - sex is sinful but tolerated by God

THIS IS WHY MARY'S VIRGINITY IS SO IMPORTANT TO ROMAN CATHOLICS

BECAUSE - Mary was PURE - HOLY , SEXUALLY PERFECT - - - Mary was guarding her virginity - abstaining from having sex - Mary was righteous - Holy Virgin -

the Roman Catholic believes that Jesus is FREE of Original sin because he was not born from sperm and egg conception with an earthly father. But this is contradicted by the fact that both Adam and Eve were born without the sex act,

both Adam and Eve were born without a human father or an earthly mother - yet this Immaculate Creation of Adam and Eve - this did not help them or prevent them from committing sin, this did nothing for them even though they were not born nor created from a sexual act.

Adam and Eve even lived at a time where purity was at its most powerful and potent form and they both existed as the very best potential and perfect example possible, purity was at the strongest and most powerful and purest form that has ever existed for human kind

And still their decision and temptation and weakness to commit immoral acts, to sin, to defile their bodies and disobey God’ s commandment was not prevented - by the state and the situation , the status , and circumstance and condition “ Immaculately Created “ they were not even born from human mother nor father nor created by any sexual relations - __

Do Catholics deny that Jesus had “ FREE WILL “ ?

Was the Roman Catholic Jesus free from all temptation and someone who did not have “ FREE WILL “ ?

is this what Catholics seem to suggest. ?

In conclusion, another great contradiction is the following Roman Catholic Catechism teaching

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Second Edition - # 404
""_ The transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. _""

but is this not simply an untruthful contradiction, there are 66 total books of the bible that clearly explain what original sin means

these scriptures explain in complete detail the understanding of Original Sin. The Bible fully explains what caused Original SIn and the result and effect and the solution that God has provided to remedy the original sin.

How can Roman Catholics resolve and explain these 2 great contradictions ?

For Roman Catholics to demand that being created without the sex act prevents someone from committing sin - and removes the choice, and Free Will and also Temptation ........

Why do Catholics deny that Jesus was faced with the challenge of “ FREE WILL “ and temptation, and was tempted in all the ways that all humans are, just as Adam and Eve but Jesus overcame his own will , denied himself and submitted to the will of God. ?

Catholics DON’T deny that Jesus had free will. Therefore, Your question is based on a false premise.

As for your complete confusion with regard to why Catholics place such importance on Mary’s virginity – it has nothing to doo with the falsehood that sexual intercourse “causes” Original Sin.

We know that sex is HOW a person comes to be born into this world (Rom. 5:12). It’s not the cause of Original Sin. It’s just the way of inheriting it. THAT is what the Church teaches.

For Roman Catholics to demand that -- The transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand

Why do Catholics deny that God has fully explained the cause and effect of the curse of Original Sin and has also provided the clear remedy. ?

Because it IS a mystery that we don't FULLY understand..

We know WHY it happens because of what we are told in Scripture.
However – we don’t fully understand HOW it happens.

 

[chandlere880]

PLEASE REVIEW THE CATHOLIC TEACHING OF ROME

Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its " procreation " fertilization , to furthering the DNA - GENETICS to be passed down through a conception ...

II. The Vocation to Chastity # 2351

Part Three Section Two The Ten Commandments Chapter Two You Shall Love Your Neighbor As Yourself Article 6 The Sixth Commandment II. The Vocation To Chastity

www.vatican.va

Furthermore

Roman Catholic Father - St. Augustine, demands that “ Sexual desire a significant role in original sin's transmission, - sexual intercourse is the daughter of sin, is also the mother of sin ... LUST - Lust becomes causally involved in the transmission of original sin ...

Sexual lust thereby becomes not merely a symbol of carnal concupiscence, but its cause.

THIS IS WHAT CATHOLICISM TEACHES

Rome believes 2 things

1........ that Mary's Conception through sexual intercourse , " conceived in sexual intercourse " would have produced baby Mary who was born in Original Sin

God had to miraculously remove the stain of romance, lust, pleasure and the sin of intimacy and the stain , dirt and filth and evil introduced also by her fathers sperm

without this miracle, - the romance, lust, intimacy and togetherness and the man and wife bond and ejaculated seed would have passed Original Sin to Mary

2........ that Jesus Conception also , any lust or any sexual intercourse as husband and wife, any sexual pleasure, romance or intimate bonding between husband and wife - would have produced a baby Jesus who was born in Original Sin

both are the same Catholic Miracle - this is why the Priests and Vatican Primates and Nuns go through their entire lives hiding their sexuality and lust and sexual deeds from all of society they believe, teach and live lives to model and pattern a glorification that having a spouse or a husband or wife or any desire to have children would make them ungodly and unholy or move them further away from perfection and righteousness.,

just the thought of getting married and having husband and wife relations would terminate and completely end a priests or nuns position and rank and status in the church, marriage is a - career ending, shame, banishment from rank and a contract breaker...

a Mary - born with a miraculous cleansing of the husbands and wife lust, passion and intimacy and fertilization during their sexual intercourse

a Jesus - born with a miraculous Virgin birth, with no husband , no romance, no lust and no fertilization and no sex


Rome teaches a narrative that Mary retained and upheld and stayed faithful to the position of being free of sin because she remained a perpetual virgin.

had she not remained a virgin and became a wife and had children

she would have never been seen as without Original Sin

 

[Aunty Jane]

THIS IS WHAT CATHOLICISM TEACHES

Rome believes 2 things

Do “you” believe what “Rome” teaches?…..because I cannot find a single thing in the Bible that would cause anyone to believe what you just wrote. This is not what the Bible teaches, but is simply the beliefs regarding ancient mother goddess worship that were grafted into what became….“Christianity” In the later centuries, foretold by Jesus and his apostles to become corrupted.

The many departures from Bible teachings only become obvious when you research the origins of Catholic beliefs. None of them are biblical.

 

[chandlere880]

thank you for your reply

I do not believe anything Rome teaches and furthermore completely agree with you as you explain what the Spirit Of Holy had given in his word" ☞ the Book " ☞ Bible

Rome seeks to redefine both the very meanings of both the effect of Original Sin and also the remedy for Original Sin "

✣ ✦ Rome hides the fact that it silently teaches that " Original Sin " is something that is ✦ SPIRITUALLY INBRED, SPIRITUALLY MENTALLY INHERITED, as through the act of LUST, through PASSION, FERTILIZATION and PENETRATION this sex passion alone causes a spiritual curse that is also spiritually damaging and destructive and caustic as a spiritual curse upon the offspring.

✣ ✣ Rome teaches that " Original Sin " is something that is also " spiritually " passed down from Adam and Eve....

But the scripture do not teach that because of Adam we have inherited a tendency and attraction to be drawn into sin, nor do scriptures teach that because of Adam we have been spiritually weakened and have spiritually been handed a curse of spiritual alienation and separation from God

✒ - the scriptures do not teach a sin nature is spiritually is passed down from Adam and that when man and wife come together in union as man and wife / sex - sex causes a spiritual curse to be passed down............ ✒

ROME DOES NOT EXPLAIN NOR CLARIFY THE BODILY NATURE OF JESUS AND MARY
- because if Rome was honest they would also demand that Jesus and Mary existing completely free from Original Sin means that they would have had eternal life here on earth --- just as Adam and Eve had eternal life before their Original Sin... Rome completely ignores this reality

Eph 4:17 walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, - Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
the alienation from God and tendency to commit sin - is not a result of something that is passed down through genetic mutation and as a result of the DNA from Adams mistakes
also

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
the alienation from God - is a result of ignnorance and and wicked works and being blinded in their hearts and following after ones own lusts and desires.


the Bible does teach that " original sin " is the caustic effect that death and coprruption in our bodies that reigns over man


this is the way the scripture explains the concept of the original sin, - not in making the claim that the sin of Adam has alienated and separated man from God - it is man himself that separates himself from God by wicked works

Adam's curse of death was a curse that he would die by natural causes - within his BODY

not a death that was caused by SPIRITUAL CAUSES - The curse of his sin caused a breakdown his body the immunity, DNA of his body - Genetic Genome - CELL PRODUCTION

Life Expectancy Is Written in Our DNA

Is Life Expectancy Written in Our DNA?

DNA methylation provides clues about how long a person or animal is likely to live. Could it be harnessed to slow the aging process?

www.discovermagazine.com

The fundamental factors that killed Adam, the reasons Adams body no longer functioned and the cause of his death is a result of how the cells in the body are dying.

Some cells in your body are replaced every 7 to 10 years - they die and need to be replaced by new cells

Neutrophil cells (a type of white blood cell) might only last 2 days - they die and need to be replaced by new cells

Egg cells: last 50 years - then begin to decay, rot and the cells begin to lose life slowly

Heart muscle cells: last 40 years - then begin to decay, rot and the cells begin to lose life slowly

the entire body begins to decay and corrupt and die - the same with

Intestinal cells last 15.9 years-

Skeletal muscle cells: last 15.1 years-

Fat cells: last 8 years

Hematopoietic stem cells: 5 years-

Liver cells: 10-16 months-

Pancreas cells: 1 year-



the entire body stops producing new cells to replace the dying cells causing the human body to die

Stiffening of the blood vessels and arteries, bones begin to shrink in size and density, fracturing and breaking down. Structural changes in the large intestine due to the cells of the body that are not reproducing fast enough to replace the dead cells

The eye's lens begins to become cloudy, The hearing diminishes, no longer able to hear

the gums begin to pull back from your teeth that are decaying and become infection - begening to rot and decay

the skin thins and becomes less elastic and more fragile and wrinkled and frayed

the body no longer burns or uses calories fast enough to provide energy for the body


THE BODY OF ADAM DID NOT BEGIN TO DIE BECAUSE OF THE SPIRITUAL CONDITION OF HIS SOUL AND THE SPIRITUAL CONDITION OF HIS MENTAL ATTITUDE OR MIND

the body of Adam dies because his body itself began to decay, rot and had become corrupted by the fruit that was forbidden.

Adam. no. longer has access to eat from the. GARDEN - God. changed his . diet and drove him out of the garden,

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast eaten. of the tree, . - . cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; :18 and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground;

the sin of 'Âdâm and his wife Chavvâh brought death to the human race

This death was a result of the eating of the forbidden fruit of corruption and death that corrupted their bodies



The Scriptures make it clear that -DEATH IS - even over them that had not sinned.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from 'Âdâm - , even over them that had not sinned

EVEN - If I personally have never committed a sin - i have inherited the curse of sin in my body and I will die just as Adam

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned - , by one; { 'Âdâm }

THE. SCRIPTURES. SAY. ABSOLUTLY. NOTHING. ABOUT. SIN .AND. SPIRITUAL. IMMORALITY. OR. LUST .AND .DEPRAVITY .BEING .NHERITED FROM ..THE. SIN. OF . ADAM


ADAMS SPIRIT IS NOT HERE ON EARTH CAUSING PEOPLE TO COMMIT. SIN -

nor do scriptures teach that the spirit of the father and mother is passing down curses of sin and disobedience and depravation upon their children


this is what i am saying

what Adam did does not lead his children to also be prone and dispositioned to commit sin, . NO. SUCH. SCRIPTURE. TEACHES . THAT. BECAUSE .OF .ADAM - - we have inherited a. SPIRITUAL .tendency and attraction to be drawn into sin.

Eph 4:17 walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the VANITY OF THER MIND , - having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

the alienation from God and tendency to commit sin - is NOT a result of something that is passed down through - from Adams mistakes

also

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

The Bible is very clear

each man and woman are responsible for their own sin they commit based on their ignorance as they choose to
walk - in the VANITY OF THIER MIND ,

their understanding is darkened - their heart is darkened - alienated and enemies in their mind - by wicked works - - alienated from the life of God

the spirit of Adam has not spiritually passed down a spiritual stain and spiritual contamination upon future SPIRITS of his seed that causes disobedience and rebellion and leads astray the spirit of his children

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


the temptation and act of having free will and choosing to commit sin and a rebellious and willing ignorant. condition of the spirit of Adam and .Eve was not something they inherited from earthly parents and still they made the free choice to disobey

Adam was tempted and chose to disobey

this is free will - not a spiritual condition inherited from Adam that was also passed down from him by God

this would make God himself the one who had passed down the - ORIGINAL SIN -

yet Adam was Immaculately Created without sex - this did absolutely nothing for him nor for his murdering son Cain ----

Cain whom was as close to pure innocence and complete absolute perfection as any human being that ever existed from Adam - this did nothing for Cains spiritual state and effect on his free will.

 

[chandlere880]

does artificial tube baby fertilization and artificial environmental development make someone more pure -

since there was no lust involved ?

this is the absolute message of Rome - again continuing to battle science and technology to control and rule over the masses of uneducated and innocent

 

[FredVB]

The diet of Adam and Eve had after the fall was still from plants that grew, most of that from what they could manage to grow themselves, it still was not eating things from animals, anymore than what was in the very good design from God to start with. And we are not in better health with using things from animals since.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The reason why Mary is thought to be sinless is because the Catholic Church believes she was also NOT in a fallen state and there for capable of not sinning - its why you sin.This is believed because it is though that Jesus could not take on fallen Flesh so Mary could not be in a fallen state or Jesus would of had to take on fallen flesh.Its called the immaculate conception and only Catholics believe it.It makes sense.That God the Father prepared Mary at birth for the coming of Christ and salvation rather than just picking some random Jewish woman in a fallen state.which is certainly not something God would do.God the Father prepares for everything.

Mary was not possessed ? one may say ! She was Pure as Snow, one may say ? Mind not corrupted with this world ?

Carnal and Religious Carnal can only make the sexual issue out to be the issue.

One who is truly Saved is not barking on about such Carnal matters, because such a one is not Possessed with Carnal matters !
for such as They have it all wrong with Mary ! they start off on the wrong foot.

Why is that, well they can not see past Carnal nonsense, I see such in fact are on the same Page as any Atheist in fact, for they both are barking up the wrong tree in fact. and will not bother to listen in fact ! because they are barking mad.

God did not pick a Whore for Jesus ? but that's what Satanist want to peddle in fact. so that the people who are a curse feel better !
That's what you see with the new age so called Christians peddle, impowering religious dribble for fools !

 

[Aunty Jane]

the Bible does teach that " original sin " is the caustic effect that death and coprruption in our bodies that reigns over man

Did original sin actually bring death to the entire human race.…? What then was the original sin?
Analyzing it from another perspective might help to answer that question more fully.

What was the scenario in Eden all about? What do we know, as opposed to what we assume?

We know where it happened, so when did it happen? Satan pounced right after the creation of Eve and after the closing of the 6th creative “day” when God declared the everything was “very good”. He was satisfied with creation as a whole, completed in increments, and at each stage all was progressing towards the finished product…..so what was the finished product? And since God does not get tired, why did he “rest” on the 7th day?
What was this rest day for, if not to rest?

Like all creators, God needed a time period to test the prototype to see if there were any glitches, or things that needed tweaking. The only glitch that could cause problems was free will. Was the exercise of free will compatible with God’s instructions…..IOW…could man’s free will and God’s will be compatible?……

And what was the purpose of the TKGE? It gave the humans just one law to obey under penalty of death...so there was no list of “don’ts” only a short list of things to “do”.

They were instructed to “become many and fill the earth”……so sex was not tabu because there is only one way to reproduce among sentient earthly beings. God brought the woman to the man which was a marriage.
And they had no awkwardness about their lack of clothing….sin was not on their mind and lust in the Bible was linked to sin. The first thing each noticed after they had eaten the fruit, was that they were naked.
God said “who told you you were naked?” They had experienced for the first time, an invasion of thoughts that were foreign to them. It prompted immediate action to cover their reproductive parts out of a new kind of feeling….shame. God gave them long garments of skin to show what modesty meant.…and to provide a measure of protection from the harsh environment into which they were cast.
This demonstrates that sin, once invited into their lives, altered their thinking completely…and this in turn, altered their actions….and God’s actions towards them.

this is the way the scripture explains the concept of the original sin, - not in making the claim that the sin of Adam has alienated and separated man from God - it is man himself that separates himself from God by wicked works

Adam's curse of death was a curse that he would die by natural causes - within his BODY

There was no natural cause of death ever stated in Eden…the only way death would come, was through disobedience. Being cast out of the garden, meant that the only means available to prevent death, (the tree of life) was now off limits….and would stay off limits until the problem of sin and death were resolved.

We know that sin separates us from God because he provided a mediator for us,so that the lines of communication could stay open, but sinful men could not now be in God’s presence without the mediator. Through him alone (in his name) could our prayers be delivered to God.…and he would intercede for us.

not a death that was caused by SPIRITUAL CAUSES - The curse of his sin caused a breakdown his body the immunity, DNA of his body - Genetic Genome - CELL PRODUCTION

Being denied access to “the tree of life”, resulted from eating the fruitage of the other tree in the garden….
Gen 3:22-24 says….
“Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” 23 With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of Eʹden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life.”

No sinful human was going to live forever!
As far as we know, those angels were guarding the way to “the tree of life” all the way to the flood of Noah’s day which completely changed the landscape.

Adam was tempted and chose to disobey

this is free will - not a spiritual condition inherited from Adam that was also passed down from him by God

this would make God himself the one who had passed down the - ORIGINAL SIN -

yet Adam was Immaculately Created without sex - this did absolutely nothing for him nor for his murdering son Cain ----

Not so….Adam was tempted and his loyalties were divided, leading him to join his wife in sin rather than to remain obedient to his God and lose her….he chose to sin willfully and deliberately…..but the repercussions would result in the deaths of the entire human race. God’s word places the blame squarely at the feet of the man, not the woman.

The apostle Paul tells us what the result was for the rest of mankind….
Rom 5:12…
”That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.”
Now a newborn baby can die due to this sin, inherited from Adam. Any one can die rhrough a wide variety of reasons. Are there then, two kinds of sin? The Bible answers…YES! There is sin that incurs death…and there is sin that incurs a lesser punishment….The punishment fits the crime…

Paul states that it’s like a war going on inside of us….

Romans 7:14-23…

“For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate. 16 However, if I do what I do not wish, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for I have the desire to do what is fine but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good that I wish, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, then, I do what I do not wish, I am no longer the one carrying it out, but it is the sin dwelling in me.

21 I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body.”

It was very much an inborn leading….inherited genetically from Adam.…..which is why a redeemer was needed who was without sin….to “buy back” what Adam lost for all his offspring.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Why the Vatican System Mirrors a Satanic Cult

1. A mere Man (the Pope) Is Elevated Above God
They call him "Holy Father" — the very name reserved for God.
He sits on a throne claiming to be the voice of Christ on Earth.

2 Thessalonians 2:4: “He sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”
That’s not Christian. That’s Antichrist spirit 101.

2. It Replaces Jesus With Rituals
Christ’s once-for-all sacrifice is replaced with a “daily re-sacrifice” in the Mass.
Direct access to God is cut off — you must go through priests, saints, relics, and Mary.
Just like ancient pagan priesthoods.

3. It Offers Salvation Through Works and Fear
Need forgiveness? Light a candle. Say 100 Hail Marys. Pay for a Mass. Obey the Church.
That’s control through guilt — not grace.
This mirrors cult tactics that manipulate people through spiritual blackmail.

4. It Uses Pagan Symbols and Practices
Sun wheels, obelisks, Dagon fish hats, astrology on ceilings.
Holy water, incense, necromantic prayers to the dead.
All of it rooted in Babylon, not Bethlehem.

You’re not seeing the church of Christ — you’re seeing the Tower of Babel wearing a crucifix.

5. It Silences Dissent, Bans Truth
Burned Bibles.
Executed reformers.
Hid sexual abuse for decades — then claimed moral authority.

Satanic cults don’t tolerate the light. Neither does Rome.

6. The Early Reformers Called the Pope the Antichrist — For Good Reason
Luther, Calvin, Tyndale, Hus, Wycliffe — all saw through the Vatican’s lies.
They read Scripture and realized:
“This isn’t the church Jesus built — it’s the one He warned us about.”

“The Pope is the very Antichrist, who has exalted himself above, and opposed himself against Christ.” – Martin Luther

If God forbids it, the Vatican makes sure to do it on a daily basis.

Daily Rebellion Dressed as Holiness
Every day, without fail:

Statues are bowed to

Rosaries are chanted

Prayers to the dead are spoken aloud

Mary is exalted above Jesus

A wafer is worshipped as God Himself

The Cross is mocked by re-sacrificing Christ

Confessions are made to men instead of to God

The words of popes override the Word of God

The Gospel is buried under sacraments and fear

Jesus is sidelined while Rome is enthroned

And all of it is done in the name of Christ, which makes it not just error — but blasphemy on a scale unimaginable.
A global masquerade… using the Savior’s name to exalt a false priesthood, crown a counterfeit king, and lead souls into spiritual slavery — all under stained glass and incense smoke.

Cathedrals Adorned in Idolatry — a Direct Violation of God's Law
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image — any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath… You shall not bow down to them nor serve them.”
— Exodus 20:4-5

pagan rituals,

false titles and hierarchy,

extra-biblical doctrines (purgatory, indulgences),

manipulation of salvation (works-based, priestly mediation),

forbidding marriage,

suppression of Scripture,

necromancy,

false sacraments,

counterfeit worship and spiritual deception,

This all comes out to a conservative total of at least 50 direct violations of God’s commands as laid out in Scripture.
And that’s just what’s explicitly condemned — not including hundreds of supporting behaviors and variations (which push it well past 100+ if you count each individual superstition, saint cult, relic, and Marian dogma separately).

The Vatican is thee Global Pagan Megachurch Masquerading as Christianity Since 313 A.D.