Christ Died for All

[Berean]

Yahweh’s love for the sin- cursed and dying race has been made operative through the gift of his Son to be man’s Redeemer. In John 3:16 we read, "God So loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This text limits the receiving of everlasting life to those who "believe." But, as Paul asks, "How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?" (Romans 10:14) And the same apostle also explains that the "god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinthians 4:4) This indicates that as long as Satan continues to rule this "present evil world," even those who do hear the Gospel imperfectly presented do not have a fair opportunity to believe.

One of the biblical words used to describe the redemptive work of Christ is "ransom," and Paul explains that a knowledge of the ransom will be testified to all in due time. To Timothy he wrote: "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there Is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the ma Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."—1Ti 2:3- 6

The sequence stated in this text is most revealing. Paul says that it is God’s will that all shall first be "saved" and then come to a "knowledge of the truth." So far as eternal salvation is concerned, it must be based upon a knowledge 01 the "ransom for all" and a belief and obedience in harmony therewith. What, then, does Paul mean by being "saved’ before coming to a knowledge of the truth? Obviously this is reference to the fact that in order to have a genuine opportunity to know about the "ransom for all," the entire unbelieving world will need to be "saved," or awakened from the sleep of death.

It will be after the people are awakened from death, as Paul indicates, that the glorious truth of the ransom and the manner in which is gives evidence of God’s love will be testified" to them. That will be the "due time" when the "sea" will be converted unto the Lord. Satan, the great deceiver, will then be bound, and the knowledge of the Lord will fill the earth. Then the way will be made plain, So plain that "wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein."—Isa 35:8 The word "ransom" means a price to correspond, or a price to offset. When Adam sinned he was a perfect man, the "son of God." (Luke 3:38) God’s just law, demanding an "eye for an eye,”a”tooth for a tooth,”a”life for a life,”meant that if Adam was to be redeemed another perfect man would have to take his place in death. (Exodus 21:23,24; Deuteronomy 19:21) It was for this purpose that Jesus was made flesh—a perfect human being, "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners.’ ‘—Gal 4:4; Hebrews 7:26 The claim has been made that Adam was not redeemed by the blood of Christ because he was a willful sinner. The fact is that if Adam had not sinned willfully God could have forgiven him without a ransom. It was because God loved him despite his willful sin that, in order to give him another opportunity for life, he sent Jesus to be a ransom for him. Addressing those who have believed on Jesus and have already accepted the provisions of the ransom, Paul wrote, "If we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26) From this it is clear that if another sacrifice for sin were to be made, the willful sin of those who now have a knowledge of the truth would be atoned for, and they could return to harmony with God if they wished. It is only because there will be "no more" sacrifice for sin that the reconciliation of present willful sinners will never be possible. Jesus atoned for the willful sin of Adam, So Adam will be awakened from the sleep of death and given another opportunity to live forever.

Adam’s children inherited his sin and the sentence of death which came upon him because of his disobedience. (Romans 5:12) Thus, when Jesus redeemed Adam, it meant that he also redeemed his offspring, who lost life through him. Paul explains the philosophy of this, saying: "If by one man’s offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even s by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all mer [including Adam] unto justification of Iife."—Ro 5:17- 19 Christ stated that he came to give his life a "ransom for many." (Matthew 20:28) The Greek text reads, "the many.’ The word "many" as used in this text means an indefinite large number. In the Greek it is polus, and it was this word which Jesus used when he said to his disciples, "The harvest truly is plenteous [polus], but the laborers are few.’ (Matthew 9:37) This contrasting use of the word polus strongly indicates that it denotes a great number, and what better word could Jesus have used to describe the countless millions whom he came to ransom by his precious blood?

The Apostle Paul emphasizes the largeness of this number when he says that Jesus gave himself a ransom for "all"—that is, for the entire human race. This does not mean, o course, that the entire human race will be eternally saved as result of the ransom, for it Is mandatory that there be an individual acceptance of this provision of Jehovah’s grace ii order to receive everlasting benefit from it. But the provision has been made for all; and because of this no one will remain in death because of Adam’s sin, for all have been ransomed therefrom.

 

[Taken]

Christ Died for All​

Yes.

* God prepared a Body of (Sinless) Flesh and Blood For His WORD, (that came forth out of Gods Mouth / while remaining IN God, being His Own Word of Truth).
*Called;
God purposed IN “Himself”.

* Sent that Body to Earth for Earthly men to Hear and “SEE”, that Body Speak, Teach, Preach and “DIE”.

* And “SEE” that Body, Raised up Alive, Sinless, Holy, having Conquered Death, and Alive forevermore.

* Such EVENT;
(from His Birth, on Earth, (IN the Line of the House of king David), to His Name (JESUS), to His Description (Son of God), to His Ministry (High Priest), to His Revealing, (Christ Messiah), to His Bodily Death, to His Resurrection, to His Ascension to the Clouds Returning to Heaven, from whence He came;

* “witnessed” first hand, by a Few and thousands of high positioned, Jews, Gentiles, common men, women, children, began being Told and Retold around the World, and Written and Copied and Distributed for Centuries, To this Day.

Yes, He accomplished His Purpose…
GAVE “and” OFFERED His Sinless Body and Blood For All.

And “All” who ACCEPT (by Taking) His OFFERING, Shall “Experience”, what He experienced;
* Birth from the womb of a woman.
* Kind “and” Cruel “and” Unjust Treatment from other men.
* Outward Discomfort.
* Inward “Peace and Comfort”.
* Effects of Weather.
* People With Him.
* People Against Him.
* People Who Ignored Him.
* People who Secretly Plotted Against Him.
* Love “and” Hate.
* Acceptance “and” Rejection.
* Called;
“Tribulations OF this world OF man against man.”

Any man “IN” this world WHO Accepts “and” Takes His “Offering”, will, as long “as” bodily Alive, Upon this Earth, shall Experience the Same Tribulations “OF” this world.
It is called;
being “Made” Whole (body, soul, spirit) and “IN” this world, but NO Longer “OF” this World.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keiw]

Yahweh’s love for the sin- cursed and dying race has been made operative through the gift of his Son to be man’s Redeemer. In John 3:16 we read, "God So loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This text limits the receiving of everlasting life to those who "believe." But, as Paul asks, "How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?" (Romans 10:14) And the same apostle also explains that the "god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinthians 4:4) This indicates that as long as Satan continues to rule this "present evil world," even those who do hear the Gospel imperfectly presented do not have a fair opportunity to believe.

One of the biblical words used to describe the redemptive work of Christ is "ransom," and Paul explains that a knowledge of the ransom will be testified to all in due time. To Timothy he wrote: "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there Is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the ma Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."—1Ti 2:3- 6

The sequence stated in this text is most revealing. Paul says that it is God’s will that all shall first be "saved" and then come to a "knowledge of the truth." So far as eternal salvation is concerned, it must be based upon a knowledge 01 the "ransom for all" and a belief and obedience in harmony therewith. What, then, does Paul mean by being "saved’ before coming to a knowledge of the truth? Obviously this is reference to the fact that in order to have a genuine opportunity to know about the "ransom for all," the entire unbelieving world will need to be "saved," or awakened from the sleep of death.

It will be after the people are awakened from death, as Paul indicates, that the glorious truth of the ransom and the manner in which is gives evidence of God’s love will be testified" to them. That will be the "due time" when the "sea" will be converted unto the Lord. Satan, the great deceiver, will then be bound, and the knowledge of the Lord will fill the earth. Then the way will be made plain, So plain that "wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein."—Isa 35:8 The word "ransom" means a price to correspond, or a price to offset. When Adam sinned he was a perfect man, the "son of God." (Luke 3:38) God’s just law, demanding an "eye for an eye,”a”tooth for a tooth,”a”life for a life,”meant that if Adam was to be redeemed another perfect man would have to take his place in death. (Exodus 21:23,24; Deuteronomy 19:21) It was for this purpose that Jesus was made flesh—a perfect human being, "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners.’ ‘—Gal 4:4; Hebrews 7:26 The claim has been made that Adam was not redeemed by the blood of Christ because he was a willful sinner. The fact is that if Adam had not sinned willfully God could have forgiven him without a ransom. It was because God loved him despite his willful sin that, in order to give him another opportunity for life, he sent Jesus to be a ransom for him. Addressing those who have believed on Jesus and have already accepted the provisions of the ransom, Paul wrote, "If we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26) From this it is clear that if another sacrifice for sin were to be made, the willful sin of those who now have a knowledge of the truth would be atoned for, and they could return to harmony with God if they wished. It is only because there will be "no more" sacrifice for sin that the reconciliation of present willful sinners will never be possible. Jesus atoned for the willful sin of Adam, So Adam will be awakened from the sleep of death and given another opportunity to live forever.

Adam’s children inherited his sin and the sentence of death which came upon him because of his disobedience. (Romans 5:12) Thus, when Jesus redeemed Adam, it meant that he also redeemed his offspring, who lost life through him. Paul explains the philosophy of this, saying: "If by one man’s offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even s by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all mer [including Adam] unto justification of Iife."—Ro 5:17- 19 Christ stated that he came to give his life a "ransom for many." (Matthew 20:28) The Greek text reads, "the many.’ The word "many" as used in this text means an indefinite large number. In the Greek it is polus, and it was this word which Jesus used when he said to his disciples, "The harvest truly is plenteous [polus], but the laborers are few.’ (Matthew 9:37) This contrasting use of the word polus strongly indicates that it denotes a great number, and what better word could Jesus have used to describe the countless millions whom he came to ransom by his precious blood?

The Apostle Paul emphasizes the largeness of this number when he says that Jesus gave himself a ransom for "all"—that is, for the entire human race. This does not mean, o course, that the entire human race will be eternally saved as result of the ransom, for it Is mandatory that there be an individual acceptance of this provision of Jehovah’s grace ii order to receive everlasting benefit from it. But the provision has been made for all; and because of this no one will remain in death because of Adam’s sin, for all have been ransomed therefrom.

Believe in the real Jesus-Believe = learning, applying and obeying all he taught which includes this major teaching= Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God=ot-nt--Learned and applied and obeyed. A fact on that is-The real ministers on Earth who have Jesus-teach EVERY utterance from God to the flock without fail. All can look at their ministers this very minute to see if they apply what Jesus taught on that matter, they assuredly wouldn't leave it up to the flock to do it on their own.
Matt 7:21-23-These believe in a believing sense but do not obey him and will hear those words from Jesus as judgement.

 

[Berean]

Believe in the real Jesus-Believe = learning, applying and obeying all he taught which includes this major teaching= Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God=ot-nt--Learned and applied and obeyed. A fact on that is-The real ministers on Earth who have Jesus-teach EVERY utterance from God to the flock without fail. All can look at their ministers this very minute to see if they apply what Jesus taught on that matter, they assuredly wouldn't leave it up to the flock to do it on their own.
Matt 7:21-23-These believe in a believing sense but do not obey him and will hear those words from Jesus as judgement.

"These"?" Who are "these" you speak of?

 

[PS95]

Believe in the real Jesus-Believe = learning, applying and obeying all he taught which includes this major teaching= Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God=ot-nt--Learned and applied and obeyed. A fact on that is-The real ministers on Earth who have Jesus-teach EVERY utterance from God to the flock without fail. All can look at their ministers this very minute to see if they apply what Jesus taught on that matter, they assuredly wouldn't leave it up to the flock to do it on their own.
Matt 7:21-23-These believe in a believing sense but do not obey him and will hear those words from Jesus as judgement.

Hi Keiw- it's been a while. hope you are well.
The "real ministers on earth who have Jesus"
Obviously that's cryptic for your- JW governing body men.. -
The men who taught you that Jesus did not die for your sins...
and that when you die that you will be paying for your own sins...

You know better than that or at least you should by now. How can you say that they have Jesus?



and as to Matt 7:21-23 - it's your favorite verse to quote against Christians. let me ask you- does it say that they prophesied in his name?
Yes it does. So I have a question-
Has your gov body done that- and been wrong? Yes, many man many times!!
JWs are guilty of that- you water it down and say they just make mistakes.. Have you heard an apology? I haven't. They blame the members. They called themselves prophets in the literature many times and in many ways.
It's called false prophesying. I hope that you think deeper about that. It's very serious. it shows that they do not know Him, and Jesus will say, He does not know them.
So, kindly point your verse to where it belongs or you just look silly. When you point your fingers are there any pointing back at you? It really is a matter of being honest with yourself. I hope you can do that.

 

[Berean]

Hi Keiw- it's been a while. hope you are well.
The "real ministers on earth who have Jesus"
Obviously that's cryptic for your- JW governing body men.. -
The men who taught you that Jesus did not die for your sins...
and that when you die that you will be paying for your own sins...

You know better than that or at least you should by now. How can you say that they have Jesus?

Because that's what these men have told him.

 

[PS95]

Because that's what these men have told him.

wise guy. lol yes, i know but isn't that what is called circular reasoning?

 

[Keiw]

"These"?" Who are "these" you speak of?

These at Matt 7:21-23--He will say to them as judgement--Get away from me you who work iniquity( practice a sin) i must confess i never even knew you. Even though out of love for him they did powerful works and the such, thus obviously believed in him, but not correctly.

 

[Keiw]

Hi Keiw- it's been a while. hope you are well.
The "real ministers on earth who have Jesus"
Obviously that's cryptic for your- JW governing body men.. -
The men who taught you that Jesus did not die for your sins...
and that when you die that you will be paying for your own sins...

You know better than that or at least you should by now. How can you say that they have Jesus?



and as to Matt 7:21-23 - it's your favorite verse to quote against Christians. let me ask you- does it say that they prophesied in his name?
Yes it does. So I have a question-
Has your gov body done that- and been wrong? Yes, many man many times!!
JWs are guilty of that- you water it down and say they just make mistakes.. Have you heard an apology? I haven't. They blame the members. They called themselves prophets in the literature many times and in many ways.
It's called false prophesying. I hope that you think deeper about that. It's very serious. it shows that they do not know Him, and Jesus will say, He does not know them.
So, kindly point your verse to where it belongs or you just look silly. When you point your fingers are there any pointing back at you? It really is a matter of being honest with yourself. I hope you can do that.

Hi, I hope you are very well as well.
He did die for all who live to see the tribulation and Armageddon. You cannot possibly deny that all born and who died prior to that paid in full the wages of sin by self, death. Gods judgement for sin = death. But all brought through Armageddon may never taste death thus will not have to pay the wages themselves. They are covered by Jesus' ransom. Possibly this is not what you are understanding. If Jesus death covered all, none would have to die and pay the wages of sin.

 

[Hey You!]

Jesus Sacrificed himself for All, but only Bore the Sins God Nailed to his Cross...

 

[soberxp]

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

 

[FaithWillDo]

The Apostle Paul emphasizes the largeness of this number when he says that Jesus gave himself a ransom for "all"—that is, for the entire human race. This does not mean, o course, that the entire human race will be eternally saved as result of the ransom, for it Is mandatory that there be an individual acceptance of this provision of Jehovah’s grace ii order to receive everlasting benefit from it. But the provision has been made for all; and because of this no one will remain in death because of Adam’s sin, for all have been ransomed therefrom.

Dear Berean,

You said:
The Apostle Paul emphasizes the largeness of this number when he says that Jesus gave himself a ransom for "all"—that is, for the entire human race. This does not mean, o course, that the entire human race will be eternally saved as result of the ransom, for it Is mandatory that there be an individual acceptance of this provision of Jehovah’s grace ii order to receive everlasting benefit from it. But the provision has been made for all; and because of this no one will remain in death because of Adam’s sin, for all have been ransomed therefrom.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

God the Father sent Christ to save the world and scripture proclaims that He will do it.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

And since God never fails at anything that He says He will accomplish and that He always fulfills His desires, it is a 100% certainty that all mankind will be saved.

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

To believe and teach that Christ won't save even just one person makes Christ out to be a failure and a sinner because this would mean that He missed the mark that His Father set for him.

Your teaching that Christ will be a failure comes from the spirit of anti-Christ and is one of the "perverse things" that Paul warned was coming into the church after his departing:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

I know why as you believe as you do because I used to believe that way, too, before I was converted. The reason is simple. It is because "babes" are still carnally minded - and it is the carnal mind that prefers the Old Wine over the New Wine.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Note: a "babe" is a believer who has only been given the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain gives them their faith and certain spiritual gifts, but it does not convert them. Because they remain unconverted, they also remain carnally minded and spiritually blind. In that condition, Satan has no trouble deceiving & devouring babes. Nothing has changed in the churches even up to this day. All babes will quickly become apostate after being given the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Because babes prefer the Old Wine which requires "works" for salvation, they will (100% of the time) mix the Old Wine with the New Wine.

Prov 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increases the transgressors among men. 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red (Old Wine), when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moves itself (man’s works) aright. 32 At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder.

When a babe accepts Satan's false gospel which mixes man's works with faith, they have been bitten by Satan and have spiritually died.

The sin of mixing the Old Wine with the New Wine is the one and only sin that leads to death. For that reason, this sin is the foundation of Satan's false gospel.

I suspect that because you believe that a person must contribute at least one work from within themselves (their faith), you refuse to believe that Christ can save all mankind. However, this belief is another one of Satan's lies. The truth is that no man can have faith in Christ or call Him Lord until Christ causes it to happen.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Christ causes a confession of faith from a person by coming to them (without their asking or permission) and freely giving them Holy Spirit.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the Rain, as the Latter and Early Rain unto the earth.

With the Holy Spirit, the only thing that a person will do when presented the Gospel is to accept Jesus as their Lord.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

So when Christ is ready to save a person, all He has to do is come to them and give them the Early & Latter Rains of the Spirit. He will follow up this free gift with the Day of the Lord (judgment) which will destroy all the spiritual things within them which has made them carnally minded and sinful.

All the works to save a person come from Christ because the person has nothing within themselves that they can contribute. Mankind is just too carnally minded and sinful to ever have faith in Christ apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

In this present age, Christ is only saving a select few who were chosen for this blessing to be saved in the early harvest. Christ is not working to save anyone else at this time. However, in the final age, Christ will turn His attention to the balance of mankind and repeat the conversion process with them. In the end, all mankind will be saved.

Joe

 

[Berean]

And since God never fails at anything that He says He will accomplish and that He always fulfills His desires, it is a 100% certainty that all mankind will be saved.

Unlike you, I do not believe in universal salvation. Christ's ransom gives EVERYBODY the opportunity for life, but not everyone will avail themselves of that life.

The Bible teaches that it's God’s plan that there shall be a great day, a thousand-year day, in which Christ will give the world a judgment, or trial. The right to give them this trial our Lord Jesus has secured by His own death (John 5:22, 27-29), having tasted death for Adam and all his posterity condemned in him (Heb. 2:9). The death of our Lord, a perfect man, is sufficient for the full offset of the sentence upon the first man (1 John 2:2). Thus the way is opened for the great “times of restitution” spoken of by the Apostle Peter (Acts 3:19-21). So our Lord Jesus has become the Redeemer, the Purchaser, of Adam and all his race.

He hasn't fully accomplished the work of purchase; for the application of the merit of His sacrifice for the world follows His Second Advent. As soon as this purchase shall have been effected, the cancellation of the sin of the world will be made. The world will then be turned over to Christ, free from the penalty of original, or Adamic sin; and each individual will have a full opportunity, or trial, or judgment, to determine his real character, his real intention, his real attitude toward right and toward wrong, toward God and toward sin. This will affect first the living nations, and then, gradually, those in the tomb, as they shall come forth. This will be universal redemption, or deliverance, from the Adamic death penalty, universal purchase from Adamic death; but not universal deliverance or salvation to eternal life, which will be conditional (John 6:53).

The Apostle Paul, in speaking about this Judgment Day, of the world, says, “God hath appointed a day [future], in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained” (Acts 17:31). Jesus will have the Church, His Body, His Bride, as His associates in the work of this great thousand-year Judgment Day (2 Pet. 3:7-12; Matt. 19:28; 25:31; Luke 22:29, 30; 1 Cor. 6:3; 2 Tim. 4:1; Psa. 72:1-4; Isa. 32:1; Jer. 23:5, 6; 33:14-16; Obad. 21). In it they as Kings and Priests with Him will reign over the earth (Rev. 5:9, 10; 20:4, 6), for the purpose of giving all mankind a full release from the Adamic penalty and a full opportunity to return to God. “Whosoever will” (Rev. 22:17) may then have that full opportunity and may, by improving it, be found worthy of everlasting life; such may at the end of the thousand years (Rev. 20:7-9), in mankind’s final test, demonstrate that they are both able and willing—able because perfect, willing because of right heart-intentions—to keep the Divine Law. All such will be granted life eternal by the Father. All others will be eternally destroyed (Acts 3:23).

Adam was on trial for this life eternal, but he failed at the out start of his trial. The world of mankind at the opening of the Millennium will start in a different way. They will start imperfect; but, with an experience in the nature and effect of sin, and under the covering of Christ’s ransom merit—not granted as an individual imputation, but through the operation of the Mediatorial Reign—they will be permitted to rise up, out of sin and death, on the Highway of Holiness (Isa. 35:8, 9); and while having this privilege, they will be permitted to demonstrate their real character, whether determined for good or for evil. If they faithfully determine for good, they will gain eternal life; if for evil, they will lose eternal life, and will die again and be dead forever—incur the Second Death. Thus the Bible teaches a universal redemption or salvation from the Adamic death penalty; but it does not teach a universal salvation unto eternal life.

 

[Keiw]

Hi Keiw- it's been a while. hope you are well.
The "real ministers on earth who have Jesus"
Obviously that's cryptic for your- JW governing body men.. -
The men who taught you that Jesus did not die for your sins...
and that when you die that you will be paying for your own sins...

You know better than that or at least you should by now. How can you say that they have Jesus?



and as to Matt 7:21-23 - it's your favorite verse to quote against Christians. let me ask you- does it say that they prophesied in his name?
Yes it does. So I have a question-
Has your gov body done that- and been wrong? Yes, many man many times!!
JWs are guilty of that- you water it down and say they just make mistakes.. Have you heard an apology? I haven't. They blame the members. They called themselves prophets in the literature many times and in many ways.
It's called false prophesying. I hope that you think deeper about that. It's very serious. it shows that they do not know Him, and Jesus will say, He does not know them.
So, kindly point your verse to where it belongs or you just look silly. When you point your fingers are there any pointing back at you? It really is a matter of being honest with yourself. I hope you can do that.

ALL men err in every religion. Some make corrections while the majority never do. They seem to think they are immune from satans attacks.
They were never prophets, that was an error that's been corrected. I know of the JW past all the way to 1879. Many corrections were made during the years. They don't blame the members. But more importantly, many of Gods truths were corrected by them that the other religions through history still live by the errors and never make corrections. At the proper time( Matt 24:45) = when God willed a truth known.
Maybe you can share with all of us how simple it is to undo 1750 years of errors taught as truths for centuries, out of altered and error filled bibles. That is all they had the first 80 years to use. No computers, hard study of many things it took. The ones still in darkness still use those error translations.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Unlike you, I do not believe in universal salvation. Christ's ransom gives EVERYBODY the opportunity for life, but not everyone will avail themselves of that life.

The Bible teaches that it's God’s plan that there shall be a great day, a thousand-year day, in which Christ will give the world a judgment, or trial. The right to give them this trial our Lord Jesus has secured by His own death (John 5:22, 27-29), having tasted death for Adam and all his posterity condemned in him (Heb. 2:9). The death of our Lord, a perfect man, is sufficient for the full offset of the sentence upon the first man (1 John 2:2). Thus the way is opened for the great “times of restitution” spoken of by the Apostle Peter (Acts 3:19-21). So our Lord Jesus has become the Redeemer, the Purchaser, of Adam and all his race.

He hasn't fully accomplished the work of purchase; for the application of the merit of His sacrifice for the world follows His Second Advent. As soon as this purchase shall have been effected, the cancellation of the sin of the world will be made. The world will then be turned over to Christ, free from the penalty of original, or Adamic sin; and each individual will have a full opportunity, or trial, or judgment, to determine his real character, his real intention, his real attitude toward right and toward wrong, toward God and toward sin. This will affect first the living nations, and then, gradually, those in the tomb, as they shall come forth. This will be universal redemption, or deliverance, from the Adamic death penalty, universal purchase from Adamic death; but not universal deliverance or salvation to eternal life, which will be conditional (John 6:53).

The Apostle Paul, in speaking about this Judgment Day, of the world, says, “God hath appointed a day [future], in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained” (Acts 17:31). Jesus will have the Church, His Body, His Bride, as His associates in the work of this great thousand-year Judgment Day (2 Pet. 3:7-12; Matt. 19:28; 25:31; Luke 22:29, 30; 1 Cor. 6:3; 2 Tim. 4:1; Psa. 72:1-4; Isa. 32:1; Jer. 23:5, 6; 33:14-16; Obad. 21). In it they as Kings and Priests with Him will reign over the earth (Rev. 5:9, 10; 20:4, 6), for the purpose of giving all mankind a full release from the Adamic penalty and a full opportunity to return to God. “Whosoever will” (Rev. 22:17) may then have that full opportunity and may, by improving it, be found worthy of everlasting life; such may at the end of the thousand years (Rev. 20:7-9), in mankind’s final test, demonstrate that they are both able and willing—able because perfect, willing because of right heart-intentions—to keep the Divine Law. All such will be granted life eternal by the Father. All others will be eternally destroyed (Acts 3:23).

Adam was on trial for this life eternal, but he failed at the out start of his trial. The world of mankind at the opening of the Millennium will start in a different way. They will start imperfect; but, with an experience in the nature and effect of sin, and under the covering of Christ’s ransom merit—not granted as an individual imputation, but through the operation of the Mediatorial Reign—they will be permitted to rise up, out of sin and death, on the Highway of Holiness (Isa. 35:8, 9); and while having this privilege, they will be permitted to demonstrate their real character, whether determined for good or for evil. If they faithfully determine for good, they will gain eternal life; if for evil, they will lose eternal life, and will die again and be dead forever—incur the Second Death. Thus the Bible teaches a universal redemption or salvation from the Adamic death penalty; but it does not teach a universal salvation unto eternal life.

Dear Berean,
The second death is the spiritual death of mankind which occurs in the Lake of Fire.

The Elect will experience the second death in the Lake of Fire in this age before they physically die (shown in Rev 19:11-20). During their judgment, they will not be harmed because they were "born again" as a child of God before their judgment began. The second death is the spiritual death of the child of the Devil. To destroy the child of the Devil, Christ will destroy all the spiritual things (the chaff) within the Elect person that made them a carnally minded & sinful child of the Devil. After the child of the Devil is destroyed, the person is converted.

In the final age, the balance of mankind will begin their judgment in the same Lake of Fire PRIOR to their new birth as a child of God. During their judgment, they will experience wrath. But because Christ loves loves His enemies, He will bless them and show them MERCY prior to their death.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun (Sun of righteousness, Mal 4:2) to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain (the Early and Latter Rains) on the just and on the unjust.

The verse below applies to how Christ will judge mankind in the final age:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ's mercy will come to the children of the Devil as the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. With the Spirit, they will have FAITH and be born as a child of God. Christ will then gather the newly born child of God to heaven just as He did in this age with the Elect. The child of the Devil will remain in the Lake of Fire until he is destroyed. This death will satisfy JUSTICE.

The first section of Joel chapter 2 teaches how Christ judges the "lost" in the final age. And just as the verse above says, Christ will show the "lost" mercy prior to their deaths (v. 18) and will bless them with the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (v. 23).

You mentioned a lot of scripture in your reply to me but you misapply it in your understanding of Christ and how He saves mankind.

Christ came to save the world and He has the "will" and power to do it. Nothing can stop Him as you believe. I am always amazed when a person believes that Christ will fail. When they have this belief, they are bringing Christ down to the level of mankind who is weak and who does not love their enemies.

Because mankind is evil, they pervert judgment just as you are doing.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

But Christ is not like mankind. When He judges a person, His judgment will bless them.

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in JUDGMENT, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

If you can't believe the scriptures I quoted, nothing I can say will change your mind. Everyone must wait on the Lord to do His work within them. After Christ does His work, they will have the necessary faith to believe that Christ will do all that He has said He will do.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Joe

 

[Berean]

The second death is the spiritual death of mankind which occurs in the Lake of Fire.

So they die spiritually and not physically?

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[FaithWillDo]

So they die spiritually and not physically?

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Dear Berean,

This is mankind's present spiritual makeup:

Marred Spirit w/a carnal & religious spiritual nature + carnal mind = a child of the Devil

The gift of the Spirit is given for the purpose of changing mankind's spirit to be strong and for it to have a divine spiritual nature. Then, the new divine spirit will slowly transform the person's carnal mind into the mind of Christ.

This is what a converted person's spiritual makeup looks like:

Strong Spirit w/a divine spiritual nature + mind of Christ = a child of God

A physical body has nothing to do with mankind being carnal and sinful. Christ proved that when He came in a body of flesh and never sinned. The problem that mankind has is our marred spiritual makeup. Conversion will change our spiritual makeup so that it will be like the one Christ has. Only then, will mankind never sin again.

The old vessel will be destroyed and a new vessel created. This is conversion.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

When you see verses that talk about the destruction or death of a person, it is talking about the old spiritual makeup of the child of the Devil that must be destroyed so that the person will have a new spiritual makeup and become a child of God.

Look at this verse:

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned (child of God/new vessel): but he that believeth not is condemned already (child of the Devil/old vessel), because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The child of the Devil (all mankind) who sins will never believe in Christ. Because of such, the child of the devil is headed for destruction. Nothing can stop that outcome. But because of Christ's love and grace, He will make each person into a child of God who will believe in Christ prior the death of the child of the Devil. In this way, the person themselves is not destroyed but lives on as a new creation. The spiritual process of conversion is what Christ uses to make that change within a person.

Joe

 

[PS95]

Hi, I hope you are very well as well.
He did die for all who live to see the tribulation and Armageddon. You cannot possibly deny that all born and who died prior to that paid in full the wages of sin by self, death. Gods judgement for sin = death. But all brought through Armageddon may never taste death thus will not have to pay the wages themselves. They are covered by Jesus' ransom. Possibly this is not what you are understanding. If Jesus death covered all, none would have to die and pay the wages of sin.

Oh Keiw. My goodness. I'm sorry but that's truly an odd and terribly unbiblical statement. Let me be sure I understand it..
So you think Jesus death is now only necessary for "sins" of those who will be alive to see the tribulation? And that.. is because the people who die before the trib- have no sins anymore because when they died their sins were paid for by dying.
And this is the JW gov body teaching on Romans chapter 6, right? They pull 2 partial sentences out the entire chapter to form an entire bogus doctrine.
How I remember that thread.

I have the word, "sins" in parenthesis above because as I recall the JW teaching is NOT that Jesus' death paid for anyone's personal sins except Adams's sin (and Adam is not forgiven.. )
So , maybe we should start there. Does Jesus's death cover the personal sins of believers or only Adams sin?

 

[Keiw]

Oh Keiw. My goodness. I'm sorry but that's truly an odd and terribly unbiblical statement. Let me be sure I understand it..
So you think Jesus death is now only necessary for "sins" of those who will be alive to see the tribulation? And that.. is because the people who die before the trib- have no sins anymore because when they died their sins were paid for by dying.
And this is the JW gov body teaching on Romans chapter 6, right? They pull 2 partial sentences out the entire chapter to form an entire bogus doctrine.
How I remember that thread.

I have the word, "sins" in parenthesis above because as I recall the JW teaching is NOT that Jesus' death paid for anyone's personal sins except Adams's sin (and Adam is not forgiven.. )
So , maybe we should start there. Does Jesus's death cover the personal sins of believers or only Adams sin?

If Jesus covered everyone's sin they would not have to pay the wages=death, but they do. EVEN the apostles and all of them died paying the wages of sin = death. All deserve death except for Jesus. The ones who live through Armageddon may never taste death even though they deserve it like everyone else. These are undeniable facts.

 

[PS95]

If Jesus covered everyone's sin they would not have to pay the wages=death, but they do. EVEN the apostles and all of them died paying the wages of sin = death. All deserve death except for Jesus. The ones who live through Armageddon may never taste death even though they deserve it like everyone else. These are undeniable facts.

You haven't answered my question Keiw. I will repost it for you below--
Does Jesus's death cover the personal sins of believers or only Adams sin?

As to your comment, Romans 6 is definitely and absolutely NOT teaching us that we can cover our sin debt with our dead bodies. . Only a perfect spotless lamb can pay for our sins. Are you perfect and spotless? No. That is JESUS.

We all die ( not all will, but most) We are not all saved. Our deaths do not pay our sin debt.
2nd death= lake of fire.. the death that Jesus saves us from.
please read carefully..ok?
Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is death, means that what you have EARNED<-- ( a wage) is death. It is your just due. You get what you deserve. Your wage is death. You are not paying for anything. You are being paid. It is your wage!

the rest of the sentence is ,
........... but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord.
What Paul is saying is it's your choice-- you have a choice, Keiw- Go to Jesus and he will pay your sin debt or will DIE IN YOUR SINS.
Choose wisely Keiw. I beg you. The watchtower men are WRONG WRONG WRONG!