If you’re a Christian and you support the modern geopolitical state of Israel, you deny that Christ is the Messiah. It's that simple.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Chrysostomos

New Member
Apr 5, 2025
76
21
8
Kiev
Faith
Christian
Country
Ukraine
I've personally run into Christians who never met a Jew in their entire lives, but who hated them because they are portrayed in the New Testament as having crucified Christ and opposing the spread of Christianity. Thus, Luther, and the Catholic Church before him, have perpetuated a grudge over historical events that happened 2000 years ago. Jesus's people have been complicit in that, and we damn well ought to confess it.
So what are you suggesting? Ban the New Testament? You say you’ve met Christians who’ve never encountered a Jew in their lives but hate them because the New Testament portrays them as having crucified Christ and opposing the spread of Christianity. Fine, let’s say Luther and the Catholic Church before him perpetuated a grudge over events from 2,000 years ago. But here’s the thing: plenty of people, when they hear about the Holocaust, start hating Germans, even if they’ve never met a single living German in their life. So what now? Should we ban talking about the Holocaust too?
Why not go further and forbid everyone from hating anyone? Let’s set up a thought police to monitor what people think and who they hate. Sounds absurd, doesn’t it? People aren’t forbidden from hating—it’s their right. What’s forbidden is acting on that hatred in an illegal way. As long as someone doesn’t break the law, they can hate whoever they want, for whatever reason they want. It’s called freedom of conscience. Ever heard of it?

Yep. My neighbor across the street has a "Free Palestine! Stop the genocide" sign in her yard. Pick your genocide - the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, or the inevitable second Holocaust that's going to occur if Israel loses. As Jesus's people, we CANNOT support either genocide. We are called to be peacemakers. There's a reason the magazine plates on my 9mm pistol have Matthew 5:9 on them.


As for the bitter fruits of manipulation and imposition of an alien agenda... my country has become increasingly radicalized, with both sides feeling an alien agenda has been imposed on them by the other. The whole world is a cauldron of manipulation and agendas. Jesus never promised us that being a peacemaker was going to be easy.

Nevertheless, take Kosovo, for example, where the situation was somewhat similar, but the approach of the West, particularly the USA and NATO, was entirely different. There, you had Muslim Kosovars on one side and Orthodox Christian Serbs on the other in a brutal conflict. In 1999, the so-called "peacemakers" from NATO chose to bomb Serbia with depleted uranium bombs, effectively taking the side of the Kosovars. This didn’t just cause destruction; it led to new suffering. After the intervention, Albanian Kosovars began ethnic cleansings against Serbs: hundreds of Serbian villages were burned, Orthodox churches were destroyed, and thousands of Serbs were killed or expelled. For instance, during the "March Pogroms" of 2004, Albanians attacked Serbian communities, burned their homes, and forced thousands to flee. Yet the West portrayed this as a humanitarian mission.

On the other hand, in the Israel-Gaza conflict, the USA provides unconditional support to Israel—politically, militarily, and financially, giving billions of dollars and advanced weaponry. Meanwhile, Palestinians in Gaza live under a blockade, their homes are destroyed, and the death toll, including 17,000 children, keeps rising. Here, too, there is no peace, only escalation.

The peacemaking you reference in Matthew 5:9 requires not choosing one side over the other, but seeking justice for all. But when powerful players like the USA and NATO intervene, their actions often serve their own geopolitical interests rather than peace. Your pistol’s magazine plates with that verse are a reminder of a higher calling, but reality shows that even "peacemakers" can become part of the problem if their choices are biased.
 
  • Like
Reactions: soberxp

Chrysostomos

New Member
Apr 5, 2025
76
21
8
Kiev
Faith
Christian
Country
Ukraine
It’s not just deception.
It’s not just confusion.
It’s Satanic — and it’s being sold as Christianity… and dares to wear the name of Christ.

Martin Luther is surely clutching his head right now and shouting: "What have you, Christian Zionists, turned the Reformation and Protestantism into? I didn’t fight for Zionism, not for a Third Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem where a Jewish Messiah will reign! On October 31, 1517, Martin Luther, a German monk, theologian, and professor at the University of Wittenberg, nailed his "95 Theses." The nailing of the 95 Theses became a symbol of the fight against corruption in the church and the beginning of a movement that split Western Christianity. Luther sought to reform the church, to return it to the "purity" of the Gospel, not to create Zionism or support any geopolitical ideas. I’m certain he’d have plenty to say to Christian Zionists today as well. Though, wait a minute—he already did:

On the Jews and Their Lies,
1543
by Martin Luther (1483-1546)
Translated by Martin H. Bertram

Finally I wish to say this for myself: If God were to give me no other Messiah than such as the Jews wish and hope for, I would much, much rather be a sow than a human being. I will cite you a good reason for this. The Jews ask no more of their Messiah than that he be a Kokhba and worldly king who will slay us Christians and share out the world among the Jews and make them lords, and who finally will die like other kings, and his children after him. For thus declares a rabbi: You must not suppose that it will be different at the time of the Messiah than it has been since the creation of the world, etc.; that is, there will be days and nights, years and months, summer and winter, seedtime and harvest, begetting and dying, eating and drinking, sleeping, growing, digesting, eliminating_all will take its course as it does now, only the Jews will be the masters and will possess all the world's gold, goods, joys, and delights, while we Christians will be their servants. This coincides entirely with the thoughts and teachings of Muhamunad. He kills us Christians as the Jews would like to do, occupies the land, and takes over our property, our joys and pleasures. If he were a Jew and not an Ishmaelite, the Jews would have accepted him as the Messiah long ago, or they would have made him the Kokhba.

Even if I had all of that, or if I could become the ruler of Turkey or the Messiah for whom the Jews hope, I would still prefer being a sow. For what would all of this benefit me if I could not be secure in its possession for a single hour? Death, that horrible burden and plague of all mankind, would still threaten me. I would not be safe from him; I would have to fear him every moment. I would still have to quake and tremble before hell and the wrath of God. And I would know no end of all this, but would have to expect it forever. The tyrant Dionysius illustrated this well when he placed a person who praised his good fortune at the head of a richly laden table. Over his head he suspended an unsheathed sword attached to a silk thread, and below him he put a red-hot fire, saying: Eat and be merry, etc. That is the sort of joy such a Messiah would dispense. And I know that anyone who has ever tasted of death's terror or burden would rather be a sow than bear this forever and ever.

What good would the Jews' Messiah do me if he were unable to help a poor man like me in face of this great and horrible lack and grief and make my life one-tenth as pleasant as that of a sow? I would say: Dear Lord God, keep your Messiah, or give him to whoever will have him. Instead, make me a sow. For it is better to be a live sow than a man who is eternally dying. Yea, as Christ says: "It would have been better for that man if he had not been born" [Matt. 26:24].

However, if I had a Messiah who could remedy this grief, so that I would no longer have to fear death but would be always and eternally sure of life, and able to play a trick on the devil and death and no longer have to tremble before the wrath of God, then my heart would leap for joy and be intoxicated with sheer delight; then would a fire of love for God be enkindled, and my praise and thanks would never cease. Even if he would not, in addition, give me gold, silver, and other riches, all the world would nonetheless be a genuine paradise for me, though I lived in a dungeon.

That is the kind of Messiah we Christians have, and we thank God, the Father of all mercy, with the full, overflowing joy of our hearts, gladly and readily forgetting all the sorrow and harm which the devil wrought for us in Paradise. For our loss has been richly compensated for, and all has been restored to us through this Messiah. Filled with such joy, the apostles sang and rejoiced in dungeons and amid all misfortunes as did even young girls, such as Agatha, Lucia, etc. The wretched Jews, on the other hand, who rejected this Messiah, have languished and perished since that time in anguish of heart, in trouble, trembling, wrath, impatience, malice, blasphemy, and cursing, as we read in Isaiah 65:14: "Behold, my servants shall sing for gladness of heart, but you shall cry out for pain of heart, and shall wail for anguish of spirit. You shall leave your name to my chosen for a curse, and the Lord God will slay you; but his servants he will call by a different name." And in the same chapter we read: "I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me; I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me. I said, 'Here am I, here am I,' to a nation that did not call on my name (that is, who were not my people). I spread out my hands all the day to a rebellious people."

We, indeed, have such a Messiah, who says to us (John 11:25): "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die." And John 8:51: "Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death." The Jews and the Turks care nothing for such a Messiah. And why should they? They must have a Messiah from the fool's paradise, who will satisfy their stinking belly, and who will die together with them like a cow or dog.

Nor do they need him in the face of death, for they themselves are holy enough with their penitence and piety to step before God and attain this and everything. Only the Christians are such fools and timid cowards who stand in such awe of God, who regard their sin and his wrath so highly that they do not venture to appear before the eyes of his divine Majesty without a mediator or Messiah to represent them and to sacrifice himself for them. The Jews, however, are holy and valiant heroes and knights who dare to approach God themselves without mediator or Messiah, and ask for and receive all they desire. Obviously the angels and God himself must rejoice whenever a Jew condescends to pray; then the angels must take this prayer and place it as a crown on God's divine head. We have witnessed this for fifteen hundred years. So highly does God esteem the noble blood and circumcised saints because they can call his son Hebel Vorik!
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,847
50,601
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What and Where is the "narrow gate"?
I dont see WHO in that question .
The narrow gate upon which if a man enters in
he shall have eternal life .
Yet many seem to negate HIS WORDS
as well as many seem to negate the fact one must even BELEIVE IN HIM .
WHO is
Be a far better question indeed my friend . AND HE SURE had LOTS OF WORDS to say .
Many love deception my friend .
A lie many do love
And the father of lies is whom many now worship as one .
You see a real simple truth
that even a wee tee tiny child could have seen was and is this .
IF it contradicts TRUTH , MAN IT AINT COMING FROM GOD at all .
Though it can use the name of JESUS , i suggest none do heed it .
ITS a twister of words and will always pander to the one thing those who are of the flesh truly love
THE FLESH . IT PANDERS TO THE FLESH . and many cannot see , and cannot hear
and are as the idol . If any man , woman , child , donkey , angel ,
voice , feeling , dream , vision
or anything speakth a word and what ever it implies TWISTS
to cause disobedience , FRIEND ITS COMING FROM THE DEVIL HIMSELF and all darkness . May i
i suggest a real simple solution . LET ALL who name the NAME OF JESUS
GET INTO THAT BIBLE and be a feasting daily . to learn and to grow .
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,847
50,601
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I've personally run into Christians who never met a Jew in their entire lives, but who hated them because they are portrayed in the New Testament as having crucified Christ and opposing the spread of Christianity. Thus, Luther, and the Catholic Church before him, have perpetuated a grudge over historical events that happened 2000 years ago. Jesus's people have been complicit in that, and we damn well ought to confess it.



Yep. My neighbor across the street has a "Free Palestine! Stop the genocide" sign in her yard. Pick your genocide - the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, or the inevitable second Holocaust that's going to occur if Israel loses. As Jesus's people, we CANNOT support either genocide. We are called to be peacemakers. There's a reason the magazine plates on my 9mm pistol have Matthew 5:9 on them.

As for the bitter fruits of manipulation and imposition of an alien agenda... my country has become increasingly radicalized, with both sides feeling an alien agenda has been imposed on them by the other. The whole world is a cauldron of manipulation and agendas. Jesus never promised us that being a peacemaker was going to be easy.
a true peace maker would have preached the true peace that reconciles man TO GOD .
yet many do the peace of the all inclusive dragon .
And while they sure do reconcile men to men
and go around on an apology tour
THEY omit THE TRUTH . We are not called to bring peace on earth
BUT rather called to bring true reconcilation . Reconciling who so ever BELIEVES to GOD
And when i say BELEIVES I MEAN IN JESUS THE CHRIST
and when i say IN JESUS THE CHRIST , I MEAN THE ONE IN THAT BIBLE and not another thumbs up fairy jesus
that seems to holler judge not correct not all the day
yet that same false version of their jesus SURE SEEMS TO PICK UP WHIPS
TO REBUKE any and all who actually DO SPEAK TRUTH , WHO DO CORRECT SIN AND ERROR . ever get the feeling
that the devil knows how to decieve . CAUSE HE SURE DO . OH YEAH ITS BIBLE TIME , I BEEN hollering that for years TOO .
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,847
50,601
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The narrow gate is the word of God.
yes indeed my friend . IT IS THE WORD OF GOD
and you can bet your bottom dollar to the top
HE DONT CONTRADICT and OMIT the words OF GOD .
many follow a fairy jesus that puts a thumbs up and a wink , an atta boy
to their sins and wickedness . ITS a FRUIT cake version of what they THINK is JESUS ,
and it CONTRADICTS HIS WORDS , TURNS him into a MINSTIR OF SIN
and has even turned with whips against THE FEW who actually DO SPEAK HIS WORDS
WHO DO correct sin and error . DO you ever get the feeling
that the devil can indeed preach another jesus . CAUSE HE SURE CAN and HE SURE DO .
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,847
50,601
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And their fruit cake jesus they preach
has pictures of him washing the feet of unrepentant sinners , of transgenders and etc .
Rather odd indeed . cause the last time i checked
JESUS never entered into the temple to wash the feet of those unrepentant pharisees
RATHER WITH A WHIP of CORRECTION . fruit cake jesus has gots to GO
hims coming not FROM GOD but from satan . Enough with this fairy tale false version of another jesus .
The one I KNOW
HAD LOTS OF WORDS and they were RECORED in the gospels
and later the apostels also taught and set the pattern . I HIGHLY suggest we learn our bibles for our selves .
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,847
50,601
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It sounds like anyone has Jewish descent, Marx was of Jewish descent, The Soviet general was of Jewish descent, The capitalist has Jewish descent.
Everyone they hated has Jewish descent,I even wonder how to define so-called Jewish ancestry.
I sometimes even think about whether any Christian thinks that having Jewish blood can be saved, But they also hated the Jews at some point in history.
I even suspect that people prefer to marry Jews to get Jewish blood so they can be saved.
I keep hearing a voice saying that by being Jewish you can be saved by God, and it's like a noise going back and forth.
marvel not at all for many believe many things .
But rather one was born a jew or a gentile , THE ONLY ONES BEING SAVED
and THOSE WHO BELIEVE GOD . AND IF one beleives NOT the testimony HE GAVE OF THE SON
and beleives not HIS OWN words ,
WELL THEY DONT BELEIVE IN GOD at all . THEY are not as abraham who heard and BELEIVED WHAT GOD SAID .
many believe what men say and men love to twist stuff . As i am sure you already know that my dear friend
in the land of China .
These nations are going DOWN as is much of Christendom too .
For though the few did call them
FOR THOUGH GOD desired NOT their death but rather LIFE
THEY HEEDED NOT and rather mocked HIM
and invented another god and another jesus . Its about to implode and explode my friend .
The pots been steaming for a while now
and the pressure cooker is hitting a peak with a big RED LABEL . WHEN it blows
it wont bode well for any and for all WHO REJECTED THE SON OF GOD .
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,847
50,601
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To the trenches one and all .
GOD KNOWS WHO ARE HIS . His have been sealed by the HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE
and their FAITH BE IN JESUS THE CHRIST . they are Born not of the flesh but OF THE SPIRIT
and a strangers voice they will not heed .
WE have GOT to do all now to help this people . To remind all of THE TRUTH of ALL MIGHTY GOD
of THE ONE TRUE LIFE saving life changing gospel of JESUS CHRIST .
GOD desires not the death of the wicked
WE desire not the death of the wicked
BUT RATHER THEY REPENT . TIS TIME TO PREACH JESUS , HIS teachings , HIS WORDS
This world is peaking in evil now and time is running out .
 
  • Like
Reactions: WitnessX

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,665
24,011
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And the argument that Jews must return to the land before they can believe? Still nowhere in the New Testament.
Agreed, this assertion is not made. However, prophecy foretold their return to self rule in their land in 1948. Prophecy also foretells their existance in the world when Jesus returns at the end of the age, all surviving coming to believe when He comes, to be regathered to Israel.

And there is not one objection you can make to anything Israel has done, including crucifying Jesus, that would cause God to cast away Israel. God was very clear about this in Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

If you believe the Bible, this is what it says. And there are many such prophecies about the survival and salvation of Israel when Jesus comes, and being returned to their land, every single one of them.

Much love!
 

Chrysostomos

New Member
Apr 5, 2025
76
21
8
Kiev
Faith
Christian
Country
Ukraine
It sounds like anyone has Jewish descent, Marx was of Jewish descent, The Soviet general was of Jewish descent, The capitalist has Jewish descent.
Everyone they hated has Jewish descent,I even wonder how to define so-called Jewish ancestry.
I sometimes even think about whether any Christian thinks that having Jewish blood can be saved, But they also hated the Jews at some point in history.
I even suspect that people prefer to marry Jews to get Jewish blood so they can be saved.
I keep hearing a voice saying that by being Jewish you can be saved by God, and it's like a noise going back and forth.
You’ve raised an interesting point, and I get your confusion—it really does sound like "noise." You’re right that history portrays Jews as either hated or somehow special, and here’s why it’s so tangled. On one hand, there’s Dispensationalism—a Protestant idea, big in America—that talks about the "chosenness" of Jews. Some take it so far as to suggest salvation comes through "Jewish blood." It’s convenient, pragmatic—no need for repentance, faith, or a personal relationship with God. Just marry into Jewish ancestry, and you’re set. But that’s not Protestantism anymore, nor even Christianity. In Christianity, there’s only one way—Jesus Christ, the sole Savior. If salvation hinges on blood or lineage, that’s a completely different religion, not what Christ preached.

That’s the problem with Dispensationalism: in theory, it highlights a special role for Jews in God’s plan, but in practice, it sometimes twists into weird ideas far from the Gospel. Meanwhile, in real life, people react to objective reality—some see Jews as a threat (like Hitler or Luther), others as a ticket to salvation (like certain American Protestants).

I get where you’re coming from because I, too, look at American Dispensationalism somewhat from the outside—not as far removed as you are from China, but enough to see its oddities. You, with your outside perspective from another culture, pick up on the absurdity of this "noise" even more sharply, and I agree with you. It’s not about faith; it’s about humanity’s tendency to oversimplify or overcomplicate things when they should just stick to Scripture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: soberxp

The Gospel of Christ

Active Member
Apr 5, 2025
108
112
43
54
Virginia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Agreed, this assertion is not made. However, prophecy foretold their return to self rule in their land in 1948. Prophecy also foretells their existance in the world when Jesus returns at the end of the age, all surviving coming to believe when He comes, to be regathered to Israel.

And there is not one objection you can make to anything Israel has done, including crucifying Jesus, that would cause God to cast away Israel. God was very clear about this in Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

If you believe the Bible, this is what it says. And there are many such prophecies about the survival and salvation of Israel when Jesus comes, and being returned to their land, every single one of them.

Much love!
Ah yes — Jeremiah 31. One of the most beautiful, misquoted, and misunderstood prophecies in all of scripture. Let’s take a closer look at what you're actually missing here.

You quoted verses 35–37 about God's enduring love for Israel, and yes — God promises never to cast off His people. But you stopped short. You skipped the entire point of the chapter, which is the very thing you're resisting:

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah…”
Jeremiah 31:31

And what is that covenant?

“…I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

Jeremiah 31:33

This isn’t about ethnic Israel being preserved in unbelief.
This is about a new people, a new covenant, a circumcision of the heart, and the formation of the Body of Christ.

Jesus Christ is that covenant.
And in Him, Jew and Gentile alike become the true Israel — the people of God who receive the Spirit, not a GPS coordinate.

Now let’s talk about this 1948 idea.

You said, “Prophecy foretold their return to self-rule in 1948.”

No, it didn’t. That’s a modern political interpretation pasted onto a passage like Ezekiel 37 out of context.

The real regathering prophesied in Ezekiel 36–37, Isaiah 11, and Jeremiah 31 is a spiritual regathering — not just people returning to land, but people being reborn by the Spirit, made one under one Shepherd, which the New Testament identifies as Christ (John 10:16, Ephesians 2:11–22).


“I will gather them from the nations... and place one shepherd over them... My servant David shall be king over them.”
Ezekiel 37:24

That prophecy was fulfilled in Christ, not in the Knesset.

And your closing line — “There is not one objection you can make, including crucifying Jesus, that would cause God to cast away Israel.”

You're right.
God hasn’t cast away Israel.

He’s redefined it.
He’s refined it.
He’s fulfilled it in Christ.

And He’s grafted in the Gentiles to that Israel, not created a second parallel plan.

“Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.” – Romans 9:6
“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed.” – Galatians 3:29
“There is no distinction between Jew and Greek.” – Romans 10:12
“He is our peace, who has made both one.” – Ephesians 2:14

So no, the Church isn’t “replacing” Israel.

The Church is Israel — reborn through Christ, sealed by the Spirit, and called to proclaim the Kingdom now, not wait for some Scofield-timeline war to make Jesus show up.

At this point, Scofield’s system has gone so far off the rails, it reads more like a science fiction novel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Except in this one, the Messiah gets delayed, the Church gets sidelined, and the cross somehow wasn’t enough.

It’s not just false.
It’s madness.
It’s Scofieldism.


Scofieldism: where the rapture has more plot twists than a Star Wars prequel.

If Paul were alive today, he’d need a lightsaber to cut through this nonsense.

The Gospel was supposed to save the world — not be turned into an apocalyptic sci-fi franchise with attack helicopters and red heifers.

This Scofield insanity is the reason millions have walked away from the Church in the last 30 years.

Not because they rejected Christ — but because what they were handed wasn’t Christianity.

It was a Zionist death cult wrapped in an American flag,
sold as "prophecy,"
funded by fear,
and completely disconnected from the Gospel of the Kingdom.


The title of this entire thread comes to mind..

If you’re a Christian and you support the modern geopolitical state of Israel, you deny that Christ is the Messiah. It's that simple.​

 
Last edited:

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,665
24,011
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
He’s redefined it.
No, it's you that has redefined it.

Imagine with me, if you will, your ancestor made a contract with the governor, that the state will supply sustenance at a certain amount through 5 generations.

Here you are, the fourth generation, and the government stops sending that check. So you take your copy of the contract to the governor, expecting that it will be honored. But the governer tells you, "It's been my decision that this contract will no longer be honored to your family, I've transfered the payments to another family I felt was more deserving." Even among men a contract is binding, that is, one's promise in writing is sufficient.

But you would have God to be less honorable than men? I would heartily disagree.

Much love!
 

The Gospel of Christ

Active Member
Apr 5, 2025
108
112
43
54
Virginia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not according to John Calvinism..
“Not according to John Calvinism”?
Exactly. That’s the problem.
Because the Gospel didn't come from John Calvin — it came from Jesus Christ, and He didn’t bleed for a theology degree.


The Gospel wasn’t meant to save a select club of frozen chosen —
It was meant to break the curse, crush the serpent, and redeem the nations.


“Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.” – John 1:29
“God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved.” – 1 Timothy 2:3–4
“Go and make disciples of all nations...” – Matthew 28:19
“He is the atoning sacrifice... for the sins of the whole world.” – 1 John 2:2


The Gospel was supposed to save the world,
not shrink it down to a theological gated community with a tulip on the mailbox.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WitnessX

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,665
24,011
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This isn’t about ethnic Israel being preserved in unbelief.
Remember the state of Israel when that promise was given. Your concerns are unfounded. God told a faithless and disobedient Israel that He would never cast them out for anything they had done.

God had promised both to preserve and save the remnent of Israel, Jacob's children. The Israel of the Bible.

Much love!
 

The Gospel of Christ

Active Member
Apr 5, 2025
108
112
43
54
Virginia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, it's you that has redefined it.

Imagine with me, if you will, your ancestor made a contract with the governor, that the state will supply sustenance at a certain amount through 5 generations.

Here you are, the fourth generation, and the government stops sending that check. So you take your copy of the contract to the governor, expecting that it will be honored. But the governer tells you, "It's been my decision that this contract will no longer be honored to your family, I've transfered the payments to another family I felt was more deserving." Even among men a contract is binding, that is, one's promise in writing is sufficient.

But you would have God to be less honorable than men? I would heartily disagree.

Much love!




Ah, so now you’ve turned God into a civil servant with a filing cabinet full of ancient contracts, afraid to "dishonor the paperwork." Cute analogy. But here's the problem — God never made a government handout agreement with Abraham. He made a covenant of faith, and then He fulfilled it with fire and blood, not bureaucracy.

This isn't a check from the state.
This is the Kingdom of God, purchased by the Lamb of God, fulfilled in the Son of God — not held hostage by flesh, ethnicity, or earthly borders.

You think it’s dishonorable for God to “transfer” the covenant? No. What would be dishonorable is if God left it unfulfilled, collecting dust while waiting for a nation-state to reboot like a Windows 95 prophecy timeline.

Read Jeremiah 31 again — the part you skipped over — where God Himself says the first covenant was broken, and a new one was coming, not “renewed,” NEW.

Jesus Christ is the New Covenant. Not Netanyahu. Not the Knesset. Not Scofield’s margin notes.

In Christ all the promises of God are YES and AMEN. – 2 Corinthians 1:20
That is why through Him we say “Amen.”
Because Jesus fulfilled the covenants, we don’t wait for a future reboot of Old Testament Israel —
we say “Amen” to what has already been secured in Christ.
He is the guarantee. He is the Yes. He is the Amen.

This is My blood of the new covenant. – Matthew 26:28
He has made the first obsolete. – Hebrews 8:13
If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed. – Galatians 3:29

This is not me “redefining” anything.
This is GOD rebuilding what man corrupted — and He did it not by sending checks to bloodlines, but by sending His own Son to create one new man, one new people, one new Body.

You say, even men honor a contract!
I say, even men don’t try to cash a check that’s already been fulfilled, nailed to a cross, and buried in an empty tomb.

You're standing at the foot of Mt. Zion trying to argue contracts...
while the King has already risen, the veil has been torn, and the covenant has gone global.

You’re at the bank window with an expired covenant, demanding your inheritance —
and the teller just keeps saying:

"Sir, this account was closed 2,000 years ago... and transferred to Jesus Christ, CEO of Heaven and Earth, King of Kings, and Final Word on the Matter. Now please step aside. The Kingdom isn’t delayed. The payment isn’t late. It already cleared — in blood."
 
  • Like
Reactions: WitnessX

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,665
24,011
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ah, so now you’ve turned God into a civil servant with a filing cabinet full of ancient contracts, afraid to "dishonor the paperwork."
Rather, you've decided to mischaracterize my portrayal of God as one who keeps His promises, to become a point a ridicule.

That's fine, I don't mind your ridicule, as I stand for the God of Truth. IF you think of this idea of God being true, and not breaking promises, as some dusty old clerk puttering around equally dusty old files, that's on you.

Much love!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.