quietthinker
Well-Known Member
and so you have embraced and are defending the lie the Serpent told Eve. ie, 'you will not surely die'
Does God love those He burns in Hell "Forever and Ever"?
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Adam and Eve died the day they sinned, but were still very much alive. You should read the Bible some time.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
soberxp
Well-Known Member
Why you believe what the serpent said?
Adam and Eve still alive because of God let them alive.
Every word out of the serpent is that let you disobedience the word of God.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Matt 25:
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
A humans everlasting punishment is Forever Separated From God.
They, the whole of such man, his lifeless body, his lifeless soul, his natural lifeless spirit…shall be dead, destroyed, and his punishment forever Separated from God.
An Angel Against Agot IS a Spirit, can Not Die, and will continue to Live in torments, Separated from God.
The dead know nothing. Ecc 9:5.
Genesis 2:16-17
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
Are you saying God was wrong? They did die when they sinned, that very day. But they were still alive, physically.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Mans Death is a consequence of not being naturally born immortal.
Separation from God Forever is a consequence for rejecting Gods.
Taken
Well-Known Member
No, God is not ever wrong.
There is Carnal Understanding…
And
There is Spiritual Understanding.
A physical death…is one thing.
A spiritual Death…is a “separation from God”, whether or not “the Thing is Alive”.
Some living men…are with And then Without God on. Regular Basis.
Some living men are Never with God.
Some men elect to accept Gods Offering through Christ Jesus, to be With God “Forever”…and ARE KEPT with God FOREVER…by, through, of Gods Promise and Power…
And those such individuals are call “converted IN Christ…with and In God. And God With And In that individual.
The whole big Picture…is dividing and Separating the Divided.
You think dead things…can feel torment and suffering?
Dead people can.
Luke 16:22-28 The rich man died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hell, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'27 Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
'Death' NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible!
Sadly, QT you are quoting the translators understanding of Genesis 2:17.
This is the Interlinear presentation for this verse: -
Notice that the Hebrew Word, "mō·wṯ" has the meaning of "A primitive root: to die (literally or figuratively)." It does not have the meaning of "surely."
This is the manner by which I believe that this verse should be paraphrased: -
Genesis 2:17: - 17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die/die the second death."
where "surely die" is replaced with "dies the second death."
The outcome of dying the second death is still a distant future event that results from being judged as unrighteous at the final time of judgement.
Ezekiel 18 speaks about this very thing, about gaining "life" or dying the second death. "Life" or the "second death," are the two possible outcomes that will be determined when all of humanity is judged at the time of the Great White Throne Room Judgement.
It is out choices now that will seal our future destiny. We can choose life or death as we live our lives until such time when we draw out last breath.
Shalom
soberxp
Well-Known Member
What Genesis 2:17 tells us is that if we sin and do not repent of our sin, that we will die the second death after we are judged to be unrighteous at the time of the Great Judgement at the end of the seventh age.
soberxp
Well-Known Member
May I think that the first death was brought to us by Adam and Eve, so that we can avoid the second death through God's salvation, But those who do not believe, they can not live forever, so they have to experience a second death, just like Adam and Eve, They were lost under the devil's word.
No, Adam and Eve did not bring us the first death. The duration of a man's life was set and when God after His Sabbath Day of Rest began considering what was happening in the world during the second age, it was God who stated that He would no longer endure mankind for no more than 120 years and so we can generate the following Graph on the duration of mankind from the time of Adam until the time of Joshua.
We should note that from the time of Noah, the length of his descendants decreased such that Joshua's life was only 110 years long.
Daniel wrote this in chapter 12 of the Book of Daniel: -
Daniel 12:1-3: - Prophecy of the End Time
12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Everyone who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
We should understand that those who wake up from the dust of the earth will experience shame and everlasting contempt which we also know is labelled as the Second Death.
From this we can see that the second death is not in play until after the Final Judgement.
I trust that this short explanation is helpful.
Shalom
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Hello Jack....can you show me in scripture, where God said that Adam and Eve “ died”? the day they sinned...I’m not looking for an argument....just scripture that says that they “ died”.
Can you also explain what you mean by them “ dying “ when they sinned.but were still very much Alive?.......that makes no sense to me, Jack.....I’m sure you can explain it though......many thanks....
David Lamb
Member
David Lamb
Member
I don't know who Steve Brown is, or what he believes, but my post asked where in the bible are we told that the departed souls of animals will be in heaven?
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