Jesus was tempted

[Wrangler]

We all who are in Christ,who is God

Repeating the lie does not make the trinity in the Bible more.

the Devil has been a liar from the beginning.

Projecting.

You are not as clever in your duplicitous agenda

Why don’t you show me how honest you are by jettisoning the personal attacks and responding to this post point by point.

LOL Trinity anti-logic on display. 1st, one cannot logically prove a negative. (And I think you are smart enough to know that)

2nd, as a lawyer, you know the burden is on the one who makes the positive claim, e.g., the defendant is guilty or liable, H0 v Ha. Trinitarians have failed to prove with Scripture that Jesus is God. The trinity is not in Scripture. Scripture does not teach that it is important to believe in the trinity or that Jesus is God.

The complete absence of the trinity as an explicit teaching is proof enough that it is a false doctrine. Jesus did not teach the trinity. Jesus did not teach us to pray to the trinity. Why would Jesus followers teach what Jesus did not?

3rd, theologically, If he were God, it would mean he suffered on the cross for nothing! It would make a mockery of his entire ministry, pretend death and worst of all, we are still enslaved to sin for Jesus did not pay the wages of sin IF he were God who cannot die.

4th, Scripture proves by contradiction that Jesus is NOT God over and over again. No one "becomes" God. Jesus died, which alone demonstrably proves he is NOT God.

Jesus said true worshipers will worship the Father. John 4:23. This means false worshippers worship the trinity. Rev 1:1 proves the resurrected Jesus having been given all authority in Heaven and Earth sitting at God's throne in heaven is STILL not God (for God gave Jesus the revelation). Jesus has a God. God does not have a God.

Now for the converse. Mark 1:1 identifies Jesus as the son of god - not god the son. There are many proof texts that God is NOT Jesus. There is only God the Father. This is not equivalent to there is only God the trinity.

Jesus, himself said the Father is the only true God. That means the trinity is a false god. Then there is the OT which explicitly and repeatedly tells us who God is (and it is not Jesus or the Holy Spirit or all 3 combined).

1. God also said to Moses ...Yahweh ... is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered for generation after generation. Ex 3:15 (REV)
2. You shall have no other gods before me (including the trinity god). Ex 20:3 (singular pronoun referring to the LORD God YHWH, who we relate to as father)
3. Yahweh is our God, Yahweh alone! Deut 6:4
4. “I am Yahweh who makes all things; who alone stretches out the heavens; who spreads out the earth by myself." Isaiah 44:24
5. I am Yahweh, and there is none else. Besides me, there is no God. Isaiah 45:5
6. O God ... you alone, whose name is Yahweh, are the Most High over all the earth. Ps 83
7. I am Yahweh your God, and there is no other. Joel 2:26

In response to all this, you got nothing! I'd love to see a point by point rebuttal but I know I'll never get it. You have to ignore all this and adopt extreme eisegesis, pretend the man-is-god thesis is the central message of Scripture, to satisfy your IDOL. There is no proof text that Jesus is not God?!

View attachment 56415

there is no Scripture that says Jesus is God, is a lie!

Then you post nothing that states Jesus is God. Of course, you read what you want into these select verses. Extreme eisegesis in light of the above verses that are explicit.

 

[MatthewG]

Isn't it amazing that people focus one part of Jesus than the other?

Whatever you may think of Jesus, it's important to believe that he died, was buried, and raised by the holy spirit of Yahavah.

People focus so much on one topic, and in the end they forget the humanness of Jesus. Whether they care about this part of Jesus or not, is beyond me. I can't read hearts like he could, however he knew the condition of the human heart, and he was tempted in every way. No matter what people may suggest you pay attention to, the side we are focusing on is the human side of Yeshua.

He was so familiar with the human temptations, he named them off.

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Whether or not this resonates with a person is beyond me, but it humbles me know to that this man, Jesus of Nazereth died on the cross knowing all the temptations that we ourselves face. And he loved us enough to give up his own life, in order for us to look towards him, his death, burial and resurrection in order to have newness of life from a spiritually dead state to a spiritually alive state in Christ.

It's truly amazing and humbling when you just take a look at the life that Jesus had lived.

Acts 4:10 then let this be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

 

[MatthewG]

Im gonna have to ask @Wrangler, and @pepper to stop debating or arguing with each other on this topic that is not apart of the thread. Thank you. I will request a moderator to stop either one of you from posting on this thread.

 

[pepper]

Im gonna have to ask @Wrangler, and @pepper to stop debating or argue with each other on this topic that is not apart of the thread. Thank you. I will request a moderator to stop either one of you from posting on this thread.

This is a public forum.
If you are not aware it is relevant that Jesus was The Word,God,made flesh when anyone,including you, insists Jesus,God,was tempted and subject to bring susceptible to temptation,you should not have invited the discussion to begin.

 

[MatthewG]

Pepper, please stick at the topic at hand. I realize it's a public forum but you can just go make your own thread. Think about it for a moment, but if you don't care. I just can ask a moderator to prevent you from posting on the thread here that I created. Then again I might just move on and not care myself, but I would like to hear some other peoples thoughts on the subject, and not their roundabout stuff that they want to talk about, please stick to the topic. Jesus was tempted.

 

[Wrangler]

Im gonna have to ask @Wrangler, and @pepper to stop debating or arguing with each other on this topic that is not apart of the thread. Thank you. I will request a moderator to stop either one of you from posting on this thread.

I’m sorry but what you said in red is not true. He brought up a take that says Jesus cannot give in to temptation based on a 4th century manmade IDOL.

It’s a bit of a word play to say Jesus can be tempted but cannot give in to the temptation. That’s just a complicated way of saying he cannot be tempted.

 

[MatthewG]

I don't care @Wrangler. Please keep the topic of the discussion the topic of discussion please.

Jesus was tempted. That is the topic. Nothing else. I don't mind people coming in and posting whatever they want but please keep it to the topic of discussion without trying to pick and pull at other members.

 

[Verily]

I believe Jesus experienced as a man the very thoughts we do, and therefore he shares the state of the human heart.

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

It says that Jesus needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man John 2:25

And yet at the same time we know that he was manifested to take away our sins;
and in him is no sin1 John 3:5

 

[MatthewG]

I believe that Jesus was tempted in every way us as human beings were. That means he had thoughts in his head (heart) that tempted him, however he never did them. That is the thing.

People suffer with temptations from within the heart. Otherwise Jesus would have never mentioned the things which come from the heart. Is not interesting? And amazing? The wisdom which Jesus has given?

If someone spit on so-and-so, their natural reaction is to start fighting or start blowing up at the individual. Jesus himself was hit, spat on, and even had a crown of thorns placed upon his head, he was mocked while dying on the cross...

Does no one think he had the ability in these times to blow up, and do something about it?

 

[Verily]

There are people who believe Jesus wrestled with lusting after women. Which is funny because God created all things by Him, so I cannot wrap my mind around him creating clay figures that he breathed life in and wanted to have sex with them, there are people who are pretty warped.

 

[MatthewG]

He suffered from all kinds of temptation.

That is why the writer of Hebrews states: Hebrews 4:15 This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin.

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Warped thoughts or not, he understands our weaknesses, because he faced all the same kinds of testing us human beings do. Being tempted in every way.

 

[MatthewG]

The problem is, people don't care enough to really think about these things.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Christians who read their Bible know this already. This post is for any who may be browsing these boards.

Lies do not Save Souls.

Any teaching you come across wherein it is said that Jesus Christ was not God,and there is no Scripture that says Jesus is God, is a lie!

What if the belief that Jesus is part of a trinity of ”three gods” is the lie?…an ancient lie that has been promoted for so long that no one questions it….and if they do, they are condemned as heretics!

The apostles collectively identified the God they worshipped….

1 Cor 8:5-6…
”For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6  there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

Their “one God” was “the Father” and their “one Lord” was “Jesus Christ”…they knew the difference but the Catholic church changed all that and made up a different “god”….one that the first Christian’s never knew.

Now before you go off in a huff, remember that the trinity did not exist in the first century…..an apostasy was foretold by Jesus and his apostles that would overtake Christianity as surely as the devil had corrupted Judaism. Christendom is the “weeds” of Jesus illustration….it is a “house divided” and no such house will stand according to Jesus.

Mark 3:24-26…
”If a kingdom becomes divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand; 25 and if a house becomes divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26 Also, if Satan has risen up against himself and has become divided, he cannot stand but is coming to an end.”

John 1 NASB
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind. 5 And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not grasp it....
...
14.And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

If you read that in Greek it says something else….”the Word” (ho logos) was “with God”, (ho theos) but he wasn’t God (ho theos) he was only “theos” meaning “a god or divine one”.
God himself called human judges in Israel “gods” (theos) but they were acting as his representatives to the people. (John 10:31-36) Jesus was only ever addressed as “theos”…never once was he called “ho theos” meaning Yahweh.

Matthew 1:23
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

How was God “with” his people Israel? Wasn’t it by means of his representative, Moses, who was the mediator of his covenant to Israel? God gave his instructions to Moses who then conveyed them to the people. And how is he “with” the disciples of his son? Isn’t it by means of his mediator Jesus Christ, sent as redeemer of the human race?

Jesus said in John 10:30
"I and the Father are one.”

At John 17:20-22….Jesus said….
“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21  so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22  I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.”

The trinity is not supported here because this is about unity of thought and purpose….If Jesus’ disciples are “one” just as Jesus and his Father are “one” the meaning is obvious…..or it is to those not indoctrinated with a very old lie still perpetuated in a religious system devised by the devil.

These mistranslated and tired old rehashed verses do not say what you imagine that they do. If you had bothered to do deeper study you would understand why they have been dismantled many times by those who are dedicated to Bible study rather than to the ancient “traditions of men“. (Matt 15:7-9)

No one has anything to fear from the truth….even if it is inconvenient to that which is currently held to be true. Do not underestimate the devil’s ability to deceive. (1 John 5:19)

 

[Verily]

He suffered from all kinds of temptation.

That is why the writer of Hebrews states: Hebrews 4:15 This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin.

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Warped thoughts or not, he understands our weaknesses, because he faced all the same kinds of testing us human beings do. Being tempted in every way.

We are tempted by those who hate God every day just as he was tempted by them

Heb 12:1 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

 

[Verily]

We are tempted by those who hate God every day just as he was tempted by them

Heb 12:1 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

I should have posted the examples under the above

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him

Mat 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him

Luke 20:23 But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?

John 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

Just people laying traps for him to accuse him

Luke 11:54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

Their words lie in wait for the blood of others

Proverbs 12:6 The words of the wicked are to lie in wait for blood: but the mouth of the upright shall deliver them.

I love this part

But the mouth of the upright shall deliver them.

And good and upright is the LORD, and as Paul said, I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

Even as he said,

2 Ti 4:8 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[pepper]

What if the belief that Jesus is part of a trinity of ”three gods” is the lie?…an ancient lie that has been promoted for so long that no one questions it….and if they do, they are condemned as heretics!

The apostles collectively identified the God they worshipped….

1 Cor 8:5-6…
”For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6  there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

Their “one God” was “the Father” and their “one Lord” was “Jesus Christ”…they knew the difference but the Catholic church changed all that and made up a different “god”….one that the first Christian’s never knew.

Now before you go off in a huff, remember that the trinity did not exist in the first century…..an apostasy was foretold by Jesus and his apostles that would overtake Christianity as surely as the devil had corrupted Judaism. Christendom is the “weeds” of Jesus illustration….it is a “house divided” and no such house will stand according to Jesus.

Mark 3:24-26…
”If a kingdom becomes divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand; 25 and if a house becomes divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26 Also, if Satan has risen up against himself and has become divided, he cannot stand but is coming to an end.”

If you read that in Greek it says something else….”the Word” (ho logos) was “with God”, (ho theos) but he wasn’t God (ho theos) he was only “theos” meaning “a god or divine one”.
God himself called human judges in Israel “gods” (theos) but they were acting as his representatives to the people. Jesus was only ever addressed as “theos”…never once was he called “ho theos” meaning Yahweh.

How was God “with” his people Israel? Wasn’t it by means of his representative, Moses, who was the mediator of his covenant to Israel? God gave his instructions to Moses who then conveyed them to the people. And how is he “with” the disciples of his son? Isn’t it by means of his mediator Jesus Christ, sent as redeemer of the human race?

At John 17:20-22….Jesus said….
“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21  so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22  I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.”

The trinity is not supported here because this is about unity of thought and purpose….If Jesus’s disciples are “one” just as Jesus and his Father are “one” the meaning is obvious…..or it is to those not indoctrinated with a very old lie still perpetuated in a religious system devised by the devil.

These mistranslated and tired old rehashed verses do not say what you imagine that they do. If you had bothered to do deeper study you would understand why they have been dismantled many times by those who are dedicated to Bible study rather than to the ancient “traditions of men“. (Matt 15:7-9)

No one has anything to fear from the truth….even if it is inconvenient to that which is currently held to be true. Do not underestimate the devil’s ability to deceive. (1 John 5:19)

The Tri-Theusm doctrine is Roman Paganism. Not Christian.

Jesus said, I and the Father are one. Not three.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus was tempted. That is the topic.

Agreed. I find it off that people would post in a thread they fundamentally disagree with the OP premise that is NOT asking to debate that basic premise.

The role model of Christ is a function of his humanity. As the story goes, this man was baptized resulting in the HS coming upon him. Immediately, he was led by the Spirit to be tested in the desert by the Devil, himself.

In the testing, the Devil revealed intimate knowledge of Scripture. Scary stuff.

The climax of the story is that with the Spirit of God, Jesus was able to resist the temptation, thereby passing the test. Only because he was human like us, can this story inspire us to triumph over our own weakness and the temptations of this world.

 

[NotTheRock]

I think if someone proposed Jesus was fully mortal,a human male, they have already failed to make a cogent Biblical point.

Jesus wasn't a male human?

 

[pepper]

Jesus wasn't a male human?

Jesus was God made flesh.

 

[NotTheRock]

Pepper, please stick at the topic at hand. I realize it's a public forum but you can just go make your own thread.