Finger pointing and condemnation

[Verily]

Yes, we WAS... a sinner.

He got born again and quit engaging in sinful behavior as the Lord had Paul write in these verses among others...

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Yes thats why I posted the verse I was referencing, "

1 Ti 1:13 "Who was before ..."

He never forgot where he came from, and reminded them likewise in the second verse I posted

1 Cr 6:11 "And such were some of you": but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The false grace peoples claim if one quits their sinful behavior... they just trying to earn their salvation

Thats not true grace,

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Sin not having dominion over us is by grace.

So encouraging sin would be the opposite of what grace actually teaches and against the very effect of grace.

I never heard of a movement that considers obeying the captain of their salvation works.

 

[Verily]

Just as all are in Adam and have death passed onto all involuntarily, so all are alive in Jesus and have been gifted with life everlasting.
1 Corinthians 15:22 'For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive'

Our status in Adam gives us no choice on life, we are predetermined to die.
Our status in Jesus gives us a choice to die. We can reject the life he has gifted us in himself.

Subsequently, The Good News.
Romans 5:10-11 'For since our friendship with God was restored by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be saved through the life of his Son. So now we can rejoice in our wonderful new relationship with God because our Lord Jesus Christ has made us friends of God.'

However, if we choose to distance ourselves from Jesus, we also distance ourselves from life .....even while it is ours in Jesus.
Distancing oneself from life is known as suicide. We have life yet a choice is made to terminate it.
This applies to all, all ,all....even LGBTQ.

How does this apply to drag queens in the pulpits?

 

[MatthewG]

People should let people be in my opinion. Yahavah will deal with them in their heart, either here in the now living world, or in the afterlife.

From what is learned in the bible is that the unjust and the just shall be risen.

Acts 24:15 I have the same hope in God that these men have, that he will raise both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Now if people are thinking of harming themselves, or others, or are caught in the act doing harm to others. This should be reported to your local authorities or should be guided or encouraged to seek help through other means.

 

[amigo de christo]

Love is the highest value, in the Christian faith. However it is the most shunned, and looked down upon.



The attributes that pertain to love, in my opinion are all of a heavenly nature, and not a natural one.











James also writes of 2 types of Wisdoms, Earthly, and Heavenly.

LOVE IS , love is not .
When are you gonna figure out that what most people within even christendom now see as love and loving
AINT AT ALL the LOVE OF GOD .
people parrot the word love around all day and yet know neither GOD or HIS LOVE .
For more info lets get in the bible and start learning that .

 

[MatthewG]

I don't know what you consider to be love, Amigo.

This is what I consider to be love,

1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

 

[amigo de christo]

People should let people be in my opinion. Yahavah will deal with them in their heart, either here in the now living world, or in the afterlife.

From what is learned in the bible is that the unjust and the just shall be risen.



Now if people are thinking of harming themselves, or others, or are caught in the act doing harm to others. This should be reported to your local authorities or should be guided or encouraged to seek help through other means.

well that is AN opinion all right . but it sure was not shared by CHRIST or the apostels
THAT AINT love at all mathew . let people be . That sure wasnt the mindset of the early church . not even remotely close.
WE PERSAUDE MEN
They corrected error within them churches .
Save some with compassion , save some with fear hating even the garment spotted by the Flesh .
Mathew this live and let live motto , You wanna know a real scary story .
While in the marines corpse i had a friend
and he was reading on the book of satan . I asked if i could read some of it .
LIVE AND LET LIVE was huge in that book .
Let people do as they desire
It was like reading new age . Yes , i did much evil before my conversion friend .
If one read that book , MINUS some of the upmost blasphemies in it ,
and without the title satan on it , YOU THINK you was reading seeker friendly . NO JOKE dude .
Now lets get busy with some bible learning .

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't know what you consider to be love, Amigo.

This is what I consider to be love,

love rejoices in truth , not inquity .
I dont hear much truth or see much rejoicing in the TRUTH from many .
SO WHERE IS THE LOVE .
What i do see is a generation that
says HEY if you overlook my sins , I overlook your sins , lets just sin and get along mindset
and expose ONLY those who correct sin . NOT LOOKING GOOD mathew .

 

[MatthewG]

I don't think it was Pauls opinion, that God was going to raise just and unjust people, amigo.

But people do what they want, they go and pick on the prostitutes, the gays, and what not. As long as they aren't going after children, or trying to murder or harm people. It's between them and God.

That's a strange way to be, at least in my opinion, Amigo. Heck, there are people that even hide behind religion in order to get their evil deeds done. There is only one way of stopping it, is to report things to the police when you hear of things like this from their own mouth, if they are wanting to harm other people. That is why the authorities are available. We can contact them and at least make a report.

Anyway, all the best to you man.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't think it was Pauls opinion, that God was going to raise just and unjust people, amigo.

But people do what they want, they go and pick on the prostitutes, the gays, and what not. As long as they aren't going after children, or trying to murder or harm people. It's between them and God.

That's a strange way to be, at least in my opinion, Amigo. Heck, there are people that even hide behind religion in order to get their evil deeds done. There is only one way of stopping it, is to report things to the police when you hear of things like this from their own mouth, if they are wanting to harm other people. That is why the authorities are available. We can contact them and at least make a report.

Anyway, all the best to you man.

mathew the victim card will not work on me .
Correcting sin , exposing sin within the church , IT AINT PICKING on folks
I have never once yelled or even raised my voice in anger or hate
when talking to gays . SO lets get off the victim card stuff .
And while we do have some bad seeds who do rail on homosexuality , BELIEVE ME the same ones
have plenty of other sins , their own namely , THEY WILL JUSTIFY .
Now i dont pick and choose what sins to expose . I say expose any and all sin and error within the beleivers .
And i know many hide behind religoin to do evil , heck many use the name of JESUS
to do evil,
HERE is a massive evil going on by many who lip the name of JESUS , INTERFAITH , the lie , the false love
which implies there is no need to have beleived JESUS is Christ . they honor certain sins
they mock and attack anyone who tries to correct .
THEY are hyprocrites . SURE they go around using the examples of bad seeds
and etc , BUT ALL the while its not to lead people to CHRIST but rather to lead them into apostacy , unbelief , acceptance of sins .
THEY hyprocrites . doing an agenda and using partiail truths to DECIEVE .

 

[MatthewG]

Amigo, whatever you want. Peace to you.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't think it was Pauls opinion, that God was going to raise just and unjust people, amigo.

But people do what they want, they go and pick on the prostitutes, the gays, and what not. As long as they aren't going after children, or trying to murder or harm people. It's between them and God.

That's a strange way to be, at least in my opinion, Amigo. Heck, there are people that even hide behind religion in order to get their evil deeds done. There is only one way of stopping it, is to report things to the police when you hear of things like this from their own mouth, if they are wanting to harm other people. That is why the authorities are available. We can contact them and at least make a report.

Anyway, all the best to you man.

compare what you wrote to what paul writes and warns the church itself about .
Again you got the opinoin of what you THINK was pauls opinoin dead dead wrong mathew .
WHY o why do you THINK i keep begging you to get back INTO the bible to learn for you .
You are running on opinions , not TRUTH . I am just trying to help you .

 

[MatthewG]

Amigo, thank you for your trying to help. I find help in going to God, not to men and what they may think. I forgive you, and I hope the best for you in your life man, in Christ.

I am just saying that people whom believe they need to correct everyone on their sins, and yet they themselves are sinners are only fooling themselves.

I don't believe that we live when the Apostles wrote, and I don't think it is good to practice sin, it leads people into spiritual bondage in their lives, and Yeshua is the only one whom can free people from bondage, but at the same time, that doesn't make them all of a sudden perfect people, with a perfect thought process, and a perfect mind, and they don't still mess up or give in to temptation. That would be redundant.

I'm also someone who doesn't go to church, and I probably should not have posted in this forum thread, however the truth is... to in Christ you are able to love God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

If you can't read this or just type up something offbased from what I am saying, I simply do not believe you overall.

From what you perceive as correction, is not love. What is loving is bearing with a person where they are at, now if that person is having thoughts of harming people, especially children they should be reported to the Law enforcement agency. If a person is homosexual, and you just say YOU SINNER! YOU SHOULD REPENT... that is not correcting them. That is judging them, and what does Jesus say?

Matthew 7:
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

How are you really working with someone? You are just judging them, and the result is naturally ugly. When it comes to children, you don't tell a child to touch a hot stove, you tell them no don't do that because it will burn you. I get that.

 

[amigo de christo]

very sad days indeed when one cannot even convince one to just get in the bible and read for themselves .
since when did the bible become the enemy .
its like the old saying goes
men gonna just do and love what they do
but sheep gonna love Truth , what JESUS sayeth and said to DO .
TRUTH is lovely to the sheep . But let us all beware that many love rather what the thus sayeth my mind believeth .

 

[Verily]

very sad days indeed when one cannot even convince one to just get in the bible and read for themselves .
since when did the bible become the enemy .
its like the old saying goes
men gonna just do and love what they do
but sheep gonna love Truth , what JESUS sayeth and said to DO .
TRUTH is lovely to the sheep . But let us all beware that many love rather what the thus sayeth my mind believeth .

James is encouraging

James 5:19-20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I think christians can sometimes confuse the world (who we are not to judge and who are without) with those who call themselves a brother (who are within).

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

Which are to be put out

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I can't imagine returning to this sort of thing

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why is it that so many Christians point fingers and condemn others? Jesus didn't do any of that. He changed people with love. He didn't call out sinners and humiliate them. He didn't find sinners repulsive.

Reminds me of Isaiah 58 which most likely has been posted. I haven’t read all the post.
Isaiah 58:9-11
“Then you will call, and the Lord will answer; You will cry for help, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you remove the yoke from your midst, The pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness, [10] And if you offer yourself to the hungry And satisfy the need of the afflicted, Then your light will rise in darkness, And your gloom will become like midday. [11] “And the Lord will continually guide you, And satisfy your desire in scorched places, And give strength to your bones; And you will be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail.

To me (I say this because I get others have different opinions): “if you remove the yoke from your midst, the pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness…” to me it means removing the yoke of condemnation and pointing of the finger to glorify and roll around in the arrogance of the flesh. Others may say pointing out others wrongs are needed and actually called love. But in the passage where they were glorifying one who had his fathers wife…it was their pointing their fingers, gossiping, being arrogant and prideful against the one who did these deeds. They were rolling around in their pointing of the finger to lift theirselves up instead of mourning. (Imo) in the end of that passage Paul sums them all up with the evil one which is to be put out. (The yoke removed from among you of pointing fingers)

I saw an item on the news last night about how gay and trans people were treated by the UK military. It was appalling. And I realised that some parts of the church still treated gay people very badly. And I thought that Jesus didn't condemn or point fingers.
When he came upon the crowd ready to stone the, adulterous woman he didn't join in with their jeering. He made them all realise that none of them was sinless and their own shame drove them away.

Consider the church and religion puts a heavy weight on trans and gays to be the ones to cry out to God to forgive for they know not what they do? When it’s supposed to be the other way around (Imo). Preachers of what is right, but not doers of what they preach?

Whenever we, as Christians, are tempted to condemn and point fingers at those we consider to be sinners, we need to remember that we are not sinless either. As well as the 'obvious' sins in our lives there are also the secret ones that are well hidden.

Agree. Until we can see our own need for grace, mercy and forgiveness…how can there be any humbleness to offer it to others in need?

This thought started when a passage in a book I was reading described an old church building as standing there as a way of condemnation to the people of the town. And sadly many people believe that of the church, that is not a place of love, acceptance and grace, but that its main purpose in life is to make people conform to its joyless practises.

So should we, who are the church, be showing them a better way? A way of love and kindness and acceptance. Just as Jesus did?

The crucifix stands out…they gave Him bitterness to drink. He gave them the Living Water when He said “Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.” Those words are Mightily (Imo) those words blowing apart the imagination that evil is overcome by bitterness…instead of if your enemies are hungry feed them, if they are thirsty give them to drink in so doing you pour hot coals upon the enemies head. Can God make even your enemies be at peace with you. He is able? But won’t until the yoke of pointing fingers is removed….???

 

[TLHKAJ]

well that is AN opinion all right . but it sure was not shared by CHRIST or the apostels
THAT AINT love at all mathew . let people be . That sure wasnt the mindset of the early church . not even remotely close.
WE PERSAUDE MEN
They corrected error within them churches .
Save some with compassion , save some with fear hating even the garment spotted by the Flesh .
Mathew this live and let live motto , You wanna know a real scary story .
While in the marines corpse i had a friend
and he was reading on the book of satan . I asked if i could read some of it .
LIVE AND LET LIVE was huge in that book .
Let people do as they desire
It was like reading new age . Yes , i did much evil before my conversion friend .
If one read that book , MINUS some of the upmost blasphemies in it ,
and without the title satan on it , YOU THINK you was reading seeker friendly . NO JOKE dude .
Now lets get busy with some bible learning .

This is the truth!

 

[amigo de christo]

Amigo, whatever you want. Peace to you.

That is the absolute worst thing to say to me or to anyone .
HEY BUDDIE what if i wanted to rape
murder , fornicate , molest , lie
HAVE YOU ever once wondered why on earth i dont do as you do .
You always try and pander . you even thank me often
YET you dont beleive a word one outta my mouth .
DID JESUS EVER THANK someone who spoke lies , who spoke contrary to what HE KNEW .
You think its all about being kind and pandering . that my friend is a big mistake .
TRY and visualize JESUS
telling anyone THANK YOU when or if they tried to correct him , or did wrong
and just said HEY friend we all see things a lil different .
YOU ARE in trouble mathew . YOU see the LOVE of GOD and being loving as
SIMPLY trying to be nice or kind . WHICH make no mistake i aint saying we are to be MEAN and hateful ,
You sucked the wrong kinda love down and fast too .
your love dont seem to give a rip one IF THE TRUTH OF JESUS is said or not , or even trod under foot .
YOUR version of love seems rather to pander to man , to humanity , to the UNREPENTANT .
PLEASE BIBLE UP .

 

[Dan Clarkston]

He never forgot where he came from, and reminded them likewise in the second verse I posted

Yep, and Paul also displayed Godly sorrow for his past life

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

This explains why he said he was chief of sinners in the present tense because he's looking at his entire life and is sorry enough for his past sins to not return to them.

But this of course does not mean his is still engaging in sinful behavior as some claim who are looking for an excuse to keep living in sinful behavior themselves.

I never heard of a movement that considers obeying the captain of their salvation works.

More and more churches / preachers are teaching this along with "all our future sins are already forgiven" as they claim asking for forgiveness of the Lord if we sin is offensive to the Lord. (Joseph Prince, Andrew Womack, Andy Stanley, Charles Stanley, to name a few )

Lots of tricks of the devil being taught to get people to sow to the flesh so they will reap corruption.

People should let people be in my opinion

So if you see someone walking in darkness... no need to try and help them right? Just let them go on to hell???

That's not the love of God to let people continue in darkness and not try to help them see the Truth of God's Word.

God was going to raise just and unjust people

God is all good with people continuing to live in their sin???

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't think it was Pauls opinion, that God was going to raise just and unjust people, amigo.

But people do what they want, they go and pick on the prostitutes, the gays, and what not. As long as they aren't going after children, or trying to murder or harm people. It's between them and God.

That's a strange way to be, at least in my opinion, Amigo. Heck, there are people that even hide behind religion in order to get their evil deeds done. There is only one way of stopping it, is to report things to the police when you hear of things like this from their own mouth, if they are wanting to harm other people. That is why the authorities are available. We can contact them and at least make a report.

Anyway, all the best to you man.

He spoke , as DID JESUS
of the ressurection of the JUST and UNJUST mathew .
Its just the JUST , JUSTIFIED BY CHRIST , their faith IN HIM , got a real lovely ressurection on that day .
those who denied him and or used his name to honor sins and please man , THE UNJUST , wont like their ressurection .
YA have GOT to get in the bible mathew . PLEASE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yep, and Paul also displayed Godly sorrow for his past life

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

This explains why he said he was chief of sinners in the present tense because he's looking at his entire life and is sorry enough for his past sins to not return to them.

But this of course does not mean his is still engaging in sinful behavior as some claim who are looking for an excuse to keep living in sinful behavior themselves.





More and more churches / preachers are teaching this along with "all our future sins are already forgiven" as they claim asking for forgiveness of the Lord if we sin is offensive to the Lord. (Joseph Prince, Andrew Womack, Andy Stanley, Charles Stanley, to name a few )

Lots of tricks of the devil being taught to get people to sow to the flesh so they will reap corruption.





So if you see someone walking in darkness... no need to try and help them right? Just let them go on to hell???

That's not the love of God to let people continue in darkness and not try to help them see the Truth of God's Word.





God is all good with people continuing to live in their sin???

GOD wont be mocked .
Folks can use the name of JESUS all day and cliam to beleive
but when they used him as an excuse to do and continue to do that which serves the flesh
promote lies , speak words , tell of a love that contradicts TRUTH ,
NOT ONLY do those get damned , THEY HAVE FAR WORSE a damanation .
THEY USE HIS NAME TO DO THEIR EVIL