Like the vast majority of mankind, they will be given a resurrection.
Acts 24:15.
The “judgement” that is mentioned, is based on what they do, after their resurrection… not what they did before their death. — Romans 6:7.
Who or What is Babylon the Great? How do God’s people come to be in her?
- Thread starter Aunty Jane
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Acts 24:15.
The “judgement” that is mentioned, is based on what they do, after their resurrection… not what they did before their death. — Romans 6:7.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
You did not answer my question…
How do you burn death?
Why is it “thrown into the Lake of Fire”?
How does that work?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I am sorry for the dim wittedness you display Jack and for your inability or unwillingness to respond appropriately to simple questions
"Dim wittedness" is believing the Christian Bible? Pity you on Judgment Day!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Dim wittedness in this case is your insistence on giving answers which don't correspond to the question.
It is further escalated by taking any subject and directing it to hell fire and forever burning. You put yourself into the category of incorrigible.
IOW "dim wittedness" to you is Biblical answers! You have my sympathy. Maybe Jesus / God will pull you from the EVERLASTING fire! I HOPE so!
Last edited:
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well you are confusing essence with position or authority. Jesus is always subordinate to His Father even though they are equally divine.
YOu are just as much human as your husband, but yet you submit to him and call him Lord if you are obedient to Scripture.
But you also forget what Jesus said:
John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
honour is "timao" which means to value, respect or revere. If you do not value the Son equally as the Father you do not honour the Father who sent Him.
They did not know His name when He became flesh, but they knew god had a son before Jesus was incarnated. And that isn't angels. and the Son was called Yahweh in Isaiah 44.
Well as the God of the bible is not 3 Gods but one God manifest in 3 persons, followers of Jesus do not worship 3 gods.
YOu obviously need to sharpen your reading skills then. Even a second grader recognizes two people called Yahweh are speaking there:
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
There is Yahweh- the king of Israel, and there is Yahweh,the kings redeemer and Yahweh of hosts. the conjunction "and" (wa) after King of Israel shows 2 people speaking. this is why Jesus could say thjese two things:
John 10:30
I and my Father are one.
John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
And this is why the Apostle John, under teh Inspiration of the Hoy spirit would proclaim:
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
You should meditate on this. Father Son and Spirit are one! A single whole. And echad is a compound one. A modern example would be like- the NY Yankees are one baseball team- it has 25 players or 25 separaqte entities, but is one team- a single whole.
To get the absolute one meaniong just a single with no exceptions- the Hebrew word is Yachid.
I am not confusing anything that Bible says…..look at the contradiction in your statement there….
”Jesus is always subordinate to His Father even though they are equally divine.” Show me please where the Bible states this directly…..?
You worship 3 equal Gods……each with a capital “G”…..and equally divine, yet one is subordinate to the other(s)….?
This is unscriptural nonsense.
You are confusing honor and respect with “worship”. We honor the Father and the son but we will not worship the son as God because he never onece said he was God incarnate…..show us the scripture where he categorically states that very important fact….our entire basis for worship hinges on one scripture…John 17:3 where Jesus says….
”This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.”
Unless we “know” who “the only true God” is, AND who “the one he sent”, is……we will not inherit everlasting life. But, again, where is the third person here? Do we not need to “know” the equally important Holy Spirit? Getting this very basic truth correct will be the difference between salvation and its alternative.…whatever you believe that is.
Yes they did….Isaiah prophesied what his name would be….
Isa 7:14…..
”Jehovah himself will give you men a sign: Look! The maiden herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Immanuel.”
So why wasn’t Jesus called “Immanuel”? Gabriel specifically stated in Luke 1:31, that he would be called Jesus (Yeshua).
Nowhere does the Bible change the identity of the one true God….apostate Christendom did that…..redirecting worship to an invented god who was the complete opposite of the one and only God of Israel. God’s people were the only nation without multiple gods because of the first Commandment. (Ex 20:3)
How insidious of the devil to paint the true God as something he despised….and leading those uneducated in the Bible’s truth to believing a lie that he has managed to perpetuate for over 1500 years. An ancient lie is still a lie…..remember that “few” are to be found on the road to life, (Matt 7:13-14) because the “many” are led to believe the biggest lie the devil ever told. They will be astonished at their rejection because they have no idea where their beliefs originated…..in Babylon….original Babylon, which was the springboard for all the false religions in the world, who all believe the same lies. Just because someone smeared a thin veneer of “Christianity“ over these beliefs, never made them true in the first place.
Let’s have a close look at the phrasing here….because it’s all in how you read this one verse…
Isa 44:6…
”Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer, the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.”
This is Yahweh speaking……he mentions “his redeemer”…whose redeemer?…..”the Lord of hosts” Is still Yahweh.
’Beside him, there is no God’….so there is no one “besides” him.
Only Yahweh bears these titles…..never once is Jesus called “Yahweh” or ”the Lord of Hosts”.
But he is called a “redeemer”.….God’s redeemer. So what is a redeemer and what did this word mean in Hebrew?
Christ is also called a “savior“ which is also a title for God. So when they do share a title, it is explained in Scripture. Sharing titles does not mean that Jesus is God.
Even in Isa 9:6, he is called “Mighty God” but not once is he ever called “Almighty God”….because there is only one “Almighty” one. He is the “Prince of Peace” because a prince is the son of a king.
Everything you offer as proof, is a mistranslation of Scripture, arguing with other Scripture.
John 17:11…
” I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one.”
According to your reasoning….Jesus’ disciples are part of your trinity too….and one part of God on earth is speaking to his other self in heaven….but, where is the Holy Spirit?
“Like Father, like son”….but again, where is the third party?
If the son is “the image” of his invisible Father, (Col 1:15)…..an image is a reflection of the original….who could mirror the Father more than the one who has spent the most time with him, before his mission on earth? Who else could show us the Father?
John 10:31-36…
“Once again the Jews picked up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?” 33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god. (theos)” 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods (theos)”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ (theos) those against whom the word of God (ho theos) came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— 36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s (ho theos) Son’?”
If you read this in Greek you will see that the Jews did not accuse Jesus of being “ho theos” (God with a capital “G”) but only “theos” (a god or divine one”) in “calling God his Father”….being God’s son did not make him equal with God at all.…but the Jews were seeking to convict him of blasphemy so that they would have grounds under God’s law to put him to death.
If Yahweh himself could call human judges in Israel “gods” (theos) then Jesus can also rightly be called “theos” because this word in Greek does not mean what Christendom assumes that it means in English.
Last time I looked, Yahweh was not a baseball team….he only ever presented himself as a singular entity who could have no equals or rivals. The Jews never knew the god you worship….and neither would Jesus.
I looked this up on a Jewish website and the answer was what I expected….
God, Yahweh is…..
“The foundation of all foundations and the pillar of all wisdom is to know that there exists a Prime Being, and He brings into existence every existing thing; and all things that exist in the heavens and earth and between them exist only by virtue of His true existence.” Significantly, the initials of the first four Hebrew words of this passage (יסוד היסודות ועמוד החכמות — “The foundation of all foundations and the pillar of all wisdom”) spell the [transcendent] Divine Name Havayah.4
In this context, echad (“one”) means yachid (“unique”). The term echad is nevertheless used in order to show that “Havayah and Elokim are all one”;5 i.e., everything that has been created and brought into being is at one, in complete unity, with Him, for He is [an indivisible] unity.” (chabad.org)
You really haven’t studied original languages very well, have you?….and for obvious reasons….the agenda you support has no foundation in Scripture.
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Well the Ten Commandments don't require you to follow it, you can choose against it, but then what path are you following...
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
No the
Watchtower reasonings on this is the unbiblical nonsense.
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Honor is a value word. It is saying that however one values God the Father- they must give the same value to Jesus!
Once again Jesus said He and His Father are one! not two- but one!
Cuz Emmanuel is not a name but a description- God is with us! GOD is with us!
Not even close! Satan knew God was triune and that is why he invented his counterfeit triads. Satan knew of the virgin birth which is why he created Isis/osiris and the mithra, Ra/net, Romulus and Remus/Rhea Silvia.
The Father is supreme and Jesus is equally divine as His Father. Jesus declared it, John confirmed it, Paul confirmed it, Isaiah declared it (though not as Jesus but as Yahweh) Genesis declares it in conjunction with John.
and Thomas declared Jesus is God.
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
And the original Greek is even more explicit for Thomas declared to Jesus: THE Lord of me and THE God of me.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
please, if you are going to quote Greek, know how it is written. Greek manuscripts did not capitalize words! they were called uncial manuscripts. Caps came much later in English and other languages.
And as your masters in the Watchtower love to make a big deal of JOhn 1:1 and the definite aticle- did you not see the definite article in the verse you quotedeclareing Jesus "THE" God???
Well using your watchtowewr argument. The bible does declare that there is only ONE true God. that would make all others called god untrue. No where in the bible does it say one could be called god who is merely a reflection of the one true God.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
- John 10:30 “The Father and I are one.”
- John 8:58 “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
John 20:28 ESV / 15 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”Colossians 1:15 ESV / 10 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.Isaiah 9:6 ESV / 10 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.Hebrews 1:8 ESV / 8 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.Titus 2:13 ESV / 8 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,Colossians 2:9 ESV / 7 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,1 John 5:20 ESV / 5 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.Colossians 2:8-10 ESV / 4 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authorityPhilippians 2:5-8 ESV / 4 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.John 14:20 ESV / 4 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
There are many more proof texts that ashow that Jesus is not His Father, but equally divine in nature as His Father. and more than equal they share the exact same nature. A frail human example would be one who is a clone of another.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I have. I have had a year in linguistic training in each of the biblical languages.
and in the context that that Jewish writer is using echad can mean the cardinal one (as it does) but it is used in many passages as a "compound one".
But to show this Jewish writer:
"that there exists a Prime Being, and He brings into existence every existing thing; and all things that exist in the heavens and earth and between them exist only by virtue of His true existence.”
Now who does god s Word declares is this one who brought all things that exist into existence?
John 1
King James Version
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
If you go through the Ten Commandments, you will see that Christ taught his disciples to observe the principles of these most important “Commandments”. These were not optional recommendations.
When a man versed in the Law asked Jesus....
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Notice what he added to his response.....”On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”...so the whole law was based on these two vital requirements. You could not break one without violating one or both of these commands.
What we know about the Sabbath is that is was incumbent on Jews to observe it...but no other nation was obligated to do so. When Gentiles were added to Christ’s disciples, were they under obligation to observe the Law? The Bible answers NO! Observing the Sabbath was not among “the necessary things” that the apostles and older men in Jerusalem said was a requirement for Gentile Christians or any Christian for that matter. (Acts15:28-29)
There was more than one Sabbath observance in Israel.
Some other festive days in the year, as well as the 7th and 50th years, were also called sabbaths. On the Sabbath day, no work except priestly service in the sanctuary was to be done.
In Sabbath years, the land was to lie uncultivated and fellow Hebrews were not pressed for repayment of debts.
In the Mosaic Law, the restrictions for the Sabbath were reasonable, but religious leaders gradually added to them, so that by Jesus’ day they were hard for people to observe.
Jesus was called “Lord of the Sabbath” (Matt 12:8) and the Sabbath was part of God’s Law to Israel and served as “a shadow of the good things to come.” (Heb 10:1)
The six weekdays of work remind us of man’s past years of slavery to Satan’s oppressive rule. The Sabbath day at the end of the week brings to mind the comforting rest mankind will experience during the Thousand Year Reign of Jesus Christ. (Compare 2 Pet 3:8) That Sabbath will be enjoyed by all who qualify for life under the rule of God’s Kingdom, so near now as we see the world falling apart under satan’s failed rulership. But he will take down with him as many as he can still deceive.....Christendom is a house divided....it will not stand.
Jesus said in Luke 11:16-18...
“And others, to test him, began demanding a sign out of heaven from him. 17 Knowing their thinking, he said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and a house divided against itself falls. 18 In the same way, if Satan is also divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand?”
Satan’s entire kingdom over this world is about to end....so where will “believers” find themselves in their divided state? Just as well Jesus knows his true disciples from the confused pretenders......they will be the obedient “few”....not the deluded “many”. (Matt 7:13-14)
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The misrepresentation of God started way before humans were created. How do we suppose this misrepresentation unfolded to the angels around him? ie, what is it he said about God that misrepresented him?
Similar threads
