Is the story of Noah literal?
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This is what they say about sea animal fossils at high altitudes:
Sea animal fossils are found at high altitudes because of the geological process of plate tectonics, where the Earth's crustal plates collide and uplift land masses, essentially "pushing" what were once seabed sediments to higher elevations, like in the case of mountain ranges, carrying the embedded marine fossils with them over time.
Key points about this phenomenon:
- Sedimentary rock formation:
Sea creatures die and their remains settle on the ocean floor, eventually becoming buried in layers of sediment which solidify into sedimentary rock.
- Plate collisions:
When tectonic plates collide, the immense force can cause the land to rise significantly, lifting these sedimentary rock layers with marine fossils to high altitudes.
- Example: Mount Everest:
The presence of marine fossils on Mount Everest is a prime example of this process, indicating that the area was once underwater before the uplift caused by the collision of tectonic plates.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
FYI - My Father and Science are not laughing at plate tectonics which is true and factual.
But they are laughing at the 'interpretation' of the fossil record and how it was formed by the FATHER using His Science.
VictoryinJesus
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Regardless of whether it is literal or not, a few things stand out regarding the flood and the ark built with hands. We may say no God built Noah’s Ark giving the size. Same as the temple made with hands…yet God does not dwell in temples made with hands. God dwells in The Temple made without hands.
1) only a few were saved. From perdition (drowning) meaning they went down under the water and there was no live giving Spirit to lift them up again. Before Christ.
1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. [21] The like figure whereunto even baptism does also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
A few saved reminds me of
Hebrews 7:11-12,15-19 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise(by the resurrection of Jesus Christ) after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? [12] For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
Jesus Christ, His Law is Kindness???
15] This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, [16] who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life.
The ark made with hands may have condemned the world but it was not able to give life nor was it a Life-Giving Spirit as Christ is: by the power of an indestructible life.
[17] For it is witnessed of him, "You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek." [18] For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness [19] (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
To me I see the ark made with hands as not able to make any perfect. (Weak) to debate if Noah’s ark was literal? Is works of the flesh not able to save and give life being weak, useless, empty, vain, unprofitable…literal? Does the Ark and flood reveal baptism into His death? Why was the ark made with hands (wherein only a few be saved) shut up and sealed until Galatians 3:23-25 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Was the flood literal? Was the Ark made with hands literal? Was the law our schoolmaster(literal) to bring us unto Christ?
Big question is :Jesus Christ said if you have this worlds goods and see your neighbor or brother have a need and you shut up your bowels of compassion towards those who lack, then the love of God is not within you. This was The ark made with hands whose doors did not open. They remained shut, until Him who was to come to give His Life for those perishing. People scratched their heads at Christian’s not answering their question of how did God who is supposed to be Love drown all those people and women and children and babies drowning and crying …none of them believing or knowing or understanding God’s Love. They witness baptism of someone dunked under the water and the message of buried with Him in death —-Christ will Lift you up again unto Life. him being the one with the power to lay His life down for those perishing, and take it up again. Peter stepped out and sank in the water—-Christ came towards Him walking on the water and lifted Peter up. I don’t think the flood and Noah’s ark is ugly or should be used to prove God is hate. But the opposite in God opened the door of compassion towards those who lack, the door is His Son who was buried in death and was raised again. Does God give strength to those drowning in perdition? Does God draw any out of the water? He told the disciples “I will make you fishers of men” cast your nets into the waters …
when Jesus Christ was speared on His side and water and blood flowed out, did He not become The Better Ark made without hands and of God. Did Jesus Christ shut up His bowels to those drowning in perdition? No. What is a flood that drowns men in perdition that ultimately “we are buried in the likeness of His death” being submerged underneath the water, as laid in a grave—-raised up out of the depth of the water unto Newness of Life where not a few are saved(Noah’s ark weak) and not able to Give Life to neighbors and brothers, being shut up and sealed —-UNTIL the Ark made without hands, Perfect (when that which is perfect comes) is revealed, opened …God’s perfection that God doesn’t only love those who love Him, but also Loves His enemies. Is it not so?
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The Ark SAVED lives and is a true factual occurrence that is ALSO a allegory for us to know and believe with our whole heart.
SAME as Ark of the Covenant.
@VictoryinJesus and myself and the whole world were SAVED by the ARK that SAVED Noah and those with him.
We would not be here were it not for the MERCY & FAITHFULNESS of GOD and of Noah's faithfulness to GOD.
These things were recorded for us whom the FATHER has called out of darkness and into His LIGHT.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
It's not a matter of a single verse here or there.
Leviticus chapters 1-9 prescribes 5 different sacrifices, including the sin offering and trespass offering for those who have done wrong, and the Red Heifer sacrifice on the Day of Atonement.
Amos 5 says God didn't prescribe ANY sacrifices, and the Israelites in the wilderness offered their sacrifices to foreign gods. And we know this is the correct interpretation of the chapter, because Acts 7 gives us that interpretation.
There are a dozen Psalms that talk about offering sacrifices. At least three of them say that God didn't command them (40, 50, 51) and one says that God didn't WANT them at all.
The book of Hosea repeatedly states that God doesn't accept sacrifices from the wicked for propitiation of sins or anything else.
The book of Malachi prescribes sacrifices and tithes for everyone in Israel.
How you gonna believe all of them 100%?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Keep DIGGING into the scriptures to KNOW why God in fact commanded sacrifices and at the same time did not want animal sacrifices.
EXAMPLE: Genesis chapter 15
And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” 5Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”
6And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
7Then He said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it.”
8And he said, “Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”
9So He said to him, “Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. 11And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
12Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. 13Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. 14And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15Now as for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. 16But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
17And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
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The word "Ark" literally means "salvation within", which is why it was used both for Noah's Ark and also for the Ark of The Covenant.
And, as Christ told us through the mouth of Jesus:
Matthew 24:37-39
24:37 But as the days of Noah [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
24:38 For as in the days that were before The Flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
24:39 And knew not until The Flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
Where Christ's Ark will be the "New Jerusalem" (Rev. 21).
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
HalleluYAH
It is REFRESHING when another Brother with SIGHT posts TRUTH = Big THANK YOU for the encouragement
The Perfect Law of Liberty that God gave us in the first five books of the Bible (namely: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) prescribes substitute animal sacrifices as an atonement for our sins.
These substitute animal sacrifices were to teach the Israelites to do good instead of evil/sin (Deut. 28; Deut. 30:15-20), and also to foreshadow SELF-Sacrifice (see: Matt. 10:38; Matt. 16:24-26; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23; Luke 14:26-27; Gal. 2:20).
The substitute animal sacrifices were punitive to discourage sinning. As wealth was measured by the amount of livestock and crops one possessed, having one's best breeding stock sacrificed to atone for one's sins was not only a short-term punishment, but also had long-term effects, as the entire strength of the herd would suffer.
Substitute animal sacrifice was done away with at the cross (Eph. 2:13-16; Col. 2:12-15), being replaced with self-sacrifice. If this is correctly understood, then all Scripture is in perfect agreement with itself, exactly as one would expect.
These substitute animal sacrifices were to teach the Israelites to do good instead of evil/sin (Deut. 28; Deut. 30:15-20), and also to foreshadow SELF-Sacrifice (see: Matt. 10:38; Matt. 16:24-26; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23; Luke 14:26-27; Gal. 2:20).
The substitute animal sacrifices were punitive to discourage sinning. As wealth was measured by the amount of livestock and crops one possessed, having one's best breeding stock sacrificed to atone for one's sins was not only a short-term punishment, but also had long-term effects, as the entire strength of the herd would suffer.
Substitute animal sacrifice was done away with at the cross (Eph. 2:13-16; Col. 2:12-15), being replaced with self-sacrifice. If this is correctly understood, then all Scripture is in perfect agreement with itself, exactly as one would expect.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Amos 5 infers the offerings and sacrifices were in vain, not that they were not prescribed. God wouldn't accept them. Not sure what you're getting at but your point is not valid based on the 1st one that I checked.
They were in vain because of their behavior.
Tools
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
@Wick Stick
They are trying to project that the animal sacrifices were from human origin as opposed to God instructing them
There are many scriptures that REJECT their claim of 'human origin'.
Scripture makes it perfectly CLEAR as the necessity of 'blood sacrifice' = Hebrews chapter 9
Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail.
Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services.
But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance; the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience— concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own Blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the Blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
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MA2444
Well-Known Member
I know you were trying to be sarcastic but he was real. All of those Greek Mythology guys were real. They were the Nephilim from Genesis 6!
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
So, you didn't read it, then? Or maybe more likely, you're trying hard to ignore the meaning...
Also... we are SO off-topic. If you want to continue this, let's do so in a new topic. Or an old one... I'm sure there's a bunch of them on Biblical contradictions.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
@DJT_47
We are not off topic as pertains to Noah and the Flood = Genesis chapter 8
And it came to pass in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, that the waters were dried up from the earth; and Noah removed the covering of the ark and looked, and indeed the surface of the ground was dry.
And in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dried.
Then God spoke to Noah, saying, “Go out of the ark, you and your wife, and your sons and your sons’ wives with you.
Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma.
Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
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