The Bible is not “Gods Word.” It's simply "The Bible."

[MatthewG]

So many people believe today that the Bible is considered either “Gods words or The Word of God.”

It’s not true… it’s a collective of God and his people their doings and happenings. It’s simply “The Bible.” Nothing more. If you disagree with an interpretation all of sudden you’re going against “Gods words or the word of God.” When all you are doing is disagreeing with an interpretation.

Why is that? Taught Tradition?

What you take out of it and use of it is at your discretion.

The Bible is not “Gods Word.” It's simply "The Bible."

The title of your thread was "The Bible is Not God's Word." I am saying to you that the Bible is God's word but not in a constant stream or conversation. It's pockets of who he is, his character, his personality, and his personal walk with mankind from Genesis to revelation. The Bible is God's...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Behold]

So many people believe today that the Bible is considered either “Gods words or The Word of God.”

It’s not true…

So, you are a deceived Preterist, who believes that the Devil is not around, and that Hell does not exist, and now you believe the word of God is nothing more then a collection of sayings....

You really are quite a collection of false theories and it continues to get worse, we've noted.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Behold,

Do you have anything to say about the topic though? And not specifically me? You definitely disagree with a lot of things I’ve talked about for the past several years and that’s okay. This topic is not about me; and it’s weird you say these things for sure they aren’t all correct either. Do you like to keep tabs on me? I never say anything really to you.

 

[Behold]

Do you have anything to say about the topic though?

Sure,
a lot of deceived people, have no use for the word of God.
Some deny it utterly as you just did, and some want to rant about "errors" in it.. .....so that is the same carnal fruit from the same Tree.
And that is why they are deceived.

Hebrews 13:9, said that if you dont get your bible right... if you dont get your heart established with Grace, then a Man - Made "doctrine of Devils" is going to get your mind., and you .

That is why some are

Mormons
Catholics
Calvinists
Preterists

or worse.

Ect.

 

[JohnDB]

So many people believe today that the Bible is considered either “Gods words or The Word of God.”

It’s not true… it’s a collective of God and his people their doings and happenings. It’s simply “The Bible.” Nothing more. If you disagree with an interpretation all of sudden you’re going against “Gods words or the word of God.” When all you are doing is disagreeing with an interpretation.

Why is that? Taught Tradition?

What you take out of it and use of it is at your discretion.

Two things are said to be "God breathed".
One is mankind and the other are the scriptures.
Both are "living and active".

I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you on this subject.

 

[MatthewG]

Two things are said to be "God breathed".
One is mankind and the other are the scriptures.
Both are "living and active".

I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you on this subject.

Hello @JohnDB.

By Gods actual breathe or by and through the spirit of God of human beings?

 

[JohnDB]

Hello @JohnDB.

By Gods actual breathe or by and through the spirit of God of human beings?

Now that would be a good question for Paul (2Tim 3:16) and the Writer of Hebrews and Moses. King David, when writing yet another Psalm, said that the Torah was like : silver refined 7 times, morning dew, perfect and etc.
Joshua told the Israelites, " Do not let this Torah depart from your mouths, meditate on it day and night so that you might be careful to do everything written in it, then you will be prosperous and successful. "

 

[Johann]

So many people believe today that the Bible is considered either “Gods words or The Word of God.”

It’s not true… it’s a collective of God and his people their doings and happenings. It’s simply “The Bible.” Nothing more. If you disagree with an interpretation all of sudden you’re going against “Gods words or the word of God.” When all you are doing is disagreeing with an interpretation.

Why is that? Taught Tradition?

Error--

Your claim that the Bible is simply "a collective of God and His people's doings and happenings" and not "God's Word" overlooks several key theological and historical truths affirmed by the Scriptures themselves, as well as the long-standing teachings of the Christian Church.

1. Scriptural Self-Understanding:
The Bible consistently claims divine authority for its message. In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul writes:
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

The Greek word "theopneustos" (God-breathed) affirms that the Scriptures are not merely human writings or historical accounts, but divinely inspired. This means the words of the Bible carry God's authority and are intended as His revelation to humanity.

Similarly, in 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter writes:
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Here, Peter emphasizes that the prophets and writers of Scripture were moved by the Holy Spirit, suggesting that the Bible is more than a mere collection of human activities—it is the divine message conveyed through human agency.

2. Jesus and the Authority of Scripture:
Jesus Himself affirmed the divine nature and authority of the Scriptures. In Matthew 5:18, He says:
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Jesus emphasizes the enduring authority of the Scriptures, indicating that even the smallest parts of the law hold significance and remain authoritative.

In John 10:35, Jesus also declared:
"The scripture cannot be broken."

This statement indicates that Scripture is inviolable and cannot be dismissed or contradicted, pointing to its divine origin and unchanging nature.

3. The Role of Interpretation:
Disagreeing with an interpretation of Scripture does not diminish its status as God's Word. Interpretation is a human endeavor that seeks to understand the divine message more accurately. However, disagreeing with an interpretation does not change the inherent authority of the Bible itself.

As the Church Fathers affirmed in the early centuries, Scripture must be interpreted according to the context of the entire Bible and the teachings of the Church.

In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised for examining the Scriptures themselves to ensure the teachings they heard were in line with God's Word:
"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

This shows that engagement with the Scriptures and discerning their true meaning is an essential part of Christian faith.

4. Church Tradition and the Bible:
The idea that Church tradition teaches that Scripture is God's Word is not merely a result of "taught tradition" but is rooted in the early Church's understanding of the Bible.

The Council of Carthage (397 AD) affirmed the canon of Scripture, and the Apostolic Fathers—early Christian writers like Clement of Rome and Ignatius of Antioch-understood and taught the Bible as divinely inspired. Their writings reflect an understanding of Scripture not as a mere historical record, but as the authoritative Word of God.

Conclusion:
The Bible is not merely "a collective of God and His people's doings and happenings." It is, according to the testimony of Scripture itself and the historic Christian faith, the divinely inspired Word of God, authoritative for all matters of faith and practice. Disagreement with interpretations does not undermine this, as the core of the issue is not the interpretation but the recognition that the Scriptures, in their proper context, are God's revealed truth.

J.

 

[Lambano]

 

[JohnDB]

Error--

Your claim that the Bible is simply "a collective of God and His people's doings and happenings" and not "God's Word" overlooks several key theological and historical truths affirmed by the Scriptures themselves, as well as the long-standing teachings of the Christian Church.

1. Scriptural Self-Understanding:
The Bible consistently claims divine authority for its message. In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul writes:
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

The Greek word "theopneustos" (God-breathed) affirms that the Scriptures are not merely human writings or historical accounts, but divinely inspired. This means the words of the Bible carry God's authority and are intended as His revelation to humanity.

Similarly, in 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter writes:
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Here, Peter emphasizes that the prophets and writers of Scripture were moved by the Holy Spirit, suggesting that the Bible is more than a mere collection of human activities—it is the divine message conveyed through human agency.

2. Jesus and the Authority of Scripture:
Jesus Himself affirmed the divine nature and authority of the Scriptures. In Matthew 5:18, He says:
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Jesus emphasizes the enduring authority of the Scriptures, indicating that even the smallest parts of the law hold significance and remain authoritative.

In John 10:35, Jesus also declared:
"The scripture cannot be broken."

This statement indicates that Scripture is inviolable and cannot be dismissed or contradicted, pointing to its divine origin and unchanging nature.

3. The Role of Interpretation:
Disagreeing with an interpretation of Scripture does not diminish its status as God's Word. Interpretation is a human endeavor that seeks to understand the divine message more accurately. However, disagreeing with an interpretation does not change the inherent authority of the Bible itself.

As the Church Fathers affirmed in the early centuries, Scripture must be interpreted according to the context of the entire Bible and the teachings of the Church.

In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised for examining the Scriptures themselves to ensure the teachings they heard were in line with God's Word:
"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

This shows that engagement with the Scriptures and discerning their true meaning is an essential part of Christian faith.

4. Church Tradition and the Bible:
The idea that Church tradition teaches that Scripture is God's Word is not merely a result of "taught tradition" but is rooted in the early Church's understanding of the Bible.

The Council of Carthage (397 AD) affirmed the canon of Scripture, and the Apostolic Fathers—early Christian writers like Clement of Rome and Ignatius of Antioch-understood and taught the Bible as divinely inspired. Their writings reflect an understanding of Scripture not as a mere historical record, but as the authoritative Word of God.

Conclusion:
The Bible is not merely "a collective of God and His people's doings and happenings." It is, according to the testimony of Scripture itself and the historic Christian faith, the divinely inspired Word of God, authoritative for all matters of faith and practice. Disagreement with interpretations does not undermine this, as the core of the issue is not the interpretation but the recognition that the Scriptures, in their proper context, are God's revealed truth.

J.

One other tidbit is in John's Gospel 1:14 .

Many people would like to have a conversation with Jesus and meet him personally to help know him on a personal level.

But this verse "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" tells us that if we want to know Jesus we need to know scriptures.

 

[JohnDB]

So many people believe today that the Bible is considered either “Gods words or The Word of God.”

It’s not true… it’s a collective of God and his people their doings and happenings. It’s simply “The Bible.” Nothing more. If you disagree with an interpretation all of sudden you’re going against “Gods words or the word of God.” When all you are doing is disagreeing with an interpretation.

Why is that? Taught Tradition?

What you take out of it and use of it is at your discretion.

I know for a fact that you know lots of scriptures.
However, the scriptures themselves cannot grant you salvation from your sins. That's Jesus's job solely and completely.

Do you disagree?

 

[MA2444]

So many people believe today that the Bible is considered either “Gods words or The Word of God.”

It’s not true… it’s a collective of God and his people their doings and happenings. It’s simply “The Bible.” Nothing more. If you disagree with an interpretation all of sudden you’re going against “Gods words or the word of God.” When all you are doing is disagreeing with an interpretation.

Why is that? Taught Tradition?

What you take out of it and use of it is at your discretion.

It's at our discretion huh? That's not what Hebrews 4:12 says!

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires..../NLT

Hmm, let me see here. v12 says it is alive. I wonder what that could mean? What does alive mean anyway? Oh! Alive means alive. I looked it up in the Greek too and alive means alive.

Not only that, but "it" exposes our thoughts and desires? What is "it" It is the Word of God, duh. So while you are reading your bible...it is reading you!

SO this verse alone destroys what you said. What should I do this verse now? Tear it out?
If what you say is true and it's just a poorly translated book...then how about you tell us what Hebrews 4:12 really means?

I can understand that you may not trust the bible for your own reasons, but why come on a Christian forum and try to teach others to not read it? Not trust it? Why do you do that?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @JohnDB,

Jesus is the Word of God, made flesh. Not the Bible. The spirit overrides the Bible though the Bible is helpful in us knowing information.

 

[Galgal]

The word of God was when God spoke this word to the prophets. When what is written in the Bible is spoken by the will of man or the devil, then it is no longer the word of God.

 

[Johann]

One other tidbit is in John's Gospel 1:14 .

Many people would like to have a conversation with Jesus and meet him personally to help know him on a personal level.

But this verse "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" tells us that if we want to know Jesus we need to know scriptures.

"So then, from now on we know no one from a human point of view, if indeed we have known Christ from a human point of view, but now we know him this way no longer."

This verse highlights the transition in understanding Christ beyond His earthly ministry and human nature, focusing instead on His glorified and spiritual role post-resurrection.

Many desire to engage with Jesus apart from the Scriptures and the illuminating work of the Holy Spirit, who enables us to understand the written Word. However, the Bible consistently teaches that true knowledge of Christ comes through the Scriptures, which the Spirit uses to enlighten our hearts and minds. @JohnDB

Illumination by the Spirit:

"But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (John 14:26, LEB)

"The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are children of God." (Romans 8:16, LEB)

The Holy Spirit is our teacher and co-witness with our spirit, ensuring that we understand God's truth.
Understanding through the Scriptures:

"Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path." (Psalm 119:105, LEB)

"Open my eyes so that I may behold wonderful things from your law." (Psalm 119:18, LEB)

These verses show the necessity of God's Word as the foundation for spiritual understanding.

Eyes Enlightened for Spiritual Wisdom:

"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, so that you may know what is the hope of his calling." (Ephesians 1:17-18, LEB)

This passage connects spiritual enlightenment with the work of the Holy Spirit, grounded in the knowledge of Christ revealed in Scripture.

Jesus as Intercessor, King, Prophet, and High Priest:

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus." (1 Timothy 2:5, LEB)
"Christ Jesus, who is at the right hand of God, who also is interceding for us." (Romans 8:34, LEB)

These verses affirm Christ's ongoing role as our intercessor and High Priest.

Avoiding Reliance on Experiences Alone:

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1, LEB)

"Study to present yourself approved to God, a worker having no need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15, LEB)

These passages warn against untested experiences and emphasize the importance of diligent study of God's Word.

In summary, while Jesus is our Intercessor, King, Prophet, and High Priest, and the Holy Spirit co-witnesses with our spirit, the Scriptures remain the ultimate standard and source of truth.

We are commanded to rely on the Spirit's illumination of the Word rather than fluctuating personal experiences, ensuring our understanding is firmly rooted in God's revealed truth.

God bless brother.

J.

 

[Behold]

Hello @JohnDB,

Jesus is the Word of God, made flesh. Not the Bible.

Notice..

Jesus is the "W"ord of God.... and that "UPPER CASE" "W".... is taught by the BIBLE that you believe is "basically just some words."

Yet, the BIBLE... explains that the "W"ord of God, is JESUS........that is John 1.

That is "The Word because Flesh".. That is "GOD was manifested in the Flesh... 1 Tim 3.

See what the BIBLE is doing?

Its proving spiritual things............because its a Spiritual Book, and not just letters on pages.

Notice that the Bible was born from the Letters of the Apostles, and they taught and wrote by the Holy Spirit.

So, that is the BIBLE......Its filled with the Spirit of God, on every page, and in every sentence.

This is why the word of God """"is a LIGHT..... for your Path.... and a LAMP for your Feet."""

Its HOLY Spiritual LIGHT.......given as a book.

The spirit overrides the Bible

The Spirit of God produced the Bible.
Anointed men just dictated it as they were led by the Holy Spirit., and in the NT that is Paul most of all.
In Fact Peter had Paul's letters and said these are TORAH.. these are SCRIPTURE.. and Paul was not even one of the original 12 Apostles.

Yet, Jesus called Him to give to us all the Church Doctrine.

 

[Johann]

Hello @JohnDB,

Jesus is the Word of God, made flesh. Not the Bible. The spirit overrides the Bible though the Bible is helpful in us knowing information.

Incorrect--

The claim that "the Spirit overrides the Bible, though the Bible is helpful for information" misrepresents the relationship between the Holy Spirit and Scripture as described in the Bible itself.

The Scriptures and the Spirit work in perfect harmony; the Spirit does not supersede the Word of God but illuminates and applies it to the believer's life.

1. Scripture and Spirit are Inseparable:

John 16:13: "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. For he will not speak from himself, but whatever he hears, he will speak, and he will proclaim to you the things to come."

The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth, and His role is to guide believers into the truth found in God's Word, not to contradict or override it. The Spirit’s work is consistent with what has already been revealed in Scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16-17: "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness, so that the person of God may be capable, fully equipped for every good work."
The Bible is described as divinely inspired, sufficient for teaching and equipping believers. The Spirit’s role complements this by helping believers understand and apply Scripture.

2. The Spirit Affirms, Not Overrides, Scripture:

1 Corinthians 2:12-13: "Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, in order that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people."

This demonstrates that the Spirit works through the Word to reveal God's truths to us.

Psalm 119:130: "The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple."

The Spirit "unfolds" Scripture, giving us understanding, but does not replace or contradict it.

3. Warnings Against Elevating Subjective "Spiritual" Experiences:

1 John 4:1: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

Believers are instructed to test all spirits. How? By comparing their claims to the revealed Word of God. The Spirit will never lead someone contrary to Scripture.

Galatians 1:8: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we have proclaimed to you, let him be accursed."

No revelation-whether claimed to be spiritual or otherwise-supersedes the authority of the gospel as contained in Scripture.

4. Jesus' Example of Using Scripture:

In Matthew 4:4, 7, 10, Jesus resists Satan's temptations by quoting Scripture, saying, "It is written." Even as the Son of God, He does not rely solely on His authority or direct revelation but demonstrates the importance of Scripture as the foundation for discerning truth.

Conclusion:
The idea that the Spirit overrides Scripture undermines the unity of God’s revelation.

The Holy Spirit inspired the Bible (2 Peter 1:21) and uses it to teach, correct, and equip believers. While the Spirit works dynamically in believers' lives, He does so by illuminating Scripture-not by bypassing or contradicting it.

To pit the Spirit against the Bible is to misunderstand their complementary roles in revealing and applying God’s truth.

But you have me on ignore and that's good-no need to waste my time here.

J.

 

[MA2444]

The word of God was when God spoke this word to the prophets. When what is written in the Bible is spoken by the will of man or the devil, then it is no longer the word of God.

SO I gotta ask, do you still read the bible at all? How much do you actually read it? Have you ever read it cover to cover?

 

[MA2444]

Notice..

Jesus is the "W"ord of God.... and that "UPPER CASE" "W".... is taught by the BIBLE that you believe is "basically just some words."

Yet, the BIBLE... explains that the "W"ord of God, is JESUS........that is John 1.

That is "The Word because Flesh".. That is "GOD was manifested in the Flesh... 1 Tim 3.

See what the BIBLE is doing?

Its proving spiritual things............because its a Spiritual Book, and not just letters on pages.

Notice that the Bible was born from the Letters of the Apostles, and they taught and wrote by the Holy Spirit.

So, that is the BIBLE......Its filled with the Spirit of God, on every page, and in every sentence.

This is why the word of God """"is a LIGHT..... for your Path.... and a LAMP for your Feet."""

Its HOLY Spiritual LIGHT.......given as a book.




The Spirit of God produced the Bible.
Anointed men just dictated it as they were led by the Holy Spirit., and in the NT that is Paul most of all.
In Fact Peter had Paul's letters and said these are TORAH.. these are SCRIPTURE.. and Paul was not even one of the original 12 Apostles.

Yet, Jesus called Him to give to us all the Church Doctrine.

I think you are going the right direction with this. Jesus is undoubtedly the Word made flesh. But Jesus also said that He only does and says what He sees and hears the Father do. (check me on this!) SO the Father speaks the Words to Jesus and Jesus became flesh. But what happens to God's words after He speaks them? Do His words dissipate and go away not to be heard anymore? I don't think so!

He said His word will not come back to Him ineffectual. Now God wanted His words to manifest in the natural realm so that man can use them for a reference and for learning. WHen we look up in scripture every time the word "word" is used, we find two translations! Logos, which is the written word of God, and Rhema which is the spoken word of God. So there is a flowing of the words of God beyond the Logos scripture!

This is where the Logos (word of God) reads you when you read the Logos and cuts you deep into your heart! When we read the word and a particular verse or passage touches your heart and makes you think, whoa, that's me, it's talking to me! That is receiving a Rhema from God's Words. And God has not been silent since the bible was written! He told me that He talks all day long to everyone!

So therein is that book, the bible made alive and is alive. That book can talk to you! And it does. But can printed pages speak to a man, not really because it is the Holy Spirit which comes flying in every time you pick up the bible to read! Holy Spirit says, time to go to work. so the written text that is God's actual words which He spoke before does carry a supernatural power with them because they were spoken by God Himself. The bible is not God and don't get worshipped or anything else, only the Holy Spirit is God and we focus on Him.

That written book is different than any other book that was ever written by man. God said those things. To, you! And me! So by no means is that book just a book. That's a deception that people fall for and then doubt grows in them.

 

[Galgal]

SO I gotta ask, do you still read the bible at all? How much do you actually read it? Have you ever read it cover to cover?

Yes, I have read the Bible, I think not all of it (I have never read the Bible sequentially, besides, different peoples have other books among the books of the Bible). Now I sometimes look into the Bible when I am looking for what I need.