Hell : Is as Real as Jesus

[Aunty Jane]

Denial of the immortal soul is the Satanic lie

Actually continuing to live after death is a satanic lie…

And as you have just arrived and feel that you have something to say…let me just address your points one at a time….

That you ‘don’t really die’ was the first lie that satan told Even to get her to disobey God’s command. When God told them that they would “surely die”…did he mean that they would not surely die but live on in spirit form somewhere else? Where was that instruction given to Adam?

God told him….
”In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Gen 3:19)

‘Returning to the dust’ was not a promise of ‘heaven’….or the threat of burning in ‘hell’….because neither was in God’s purpose for creating mortal man on this carefully prepared planet in the first place…..living forever on this earth was where God intended for us to enjoy all that he had created, and mankind was to have all the creatures who shared life here, subject to him. (Gen 1:27)

There was a “tree of life” in the garden that guaranteed everlasting life in the flesh, as long as the humans continued to be obedient, but after they rebelled, and ate from the “other” tree…..access to “the tree of life” was denied (Gen 3:22-24).….meaning that death would follow, now that “sin had entered into the world”….”and death through sin”. (Rom 5:12) Death is the end of life….because there is no mention of an immortal soul anywhere in the Bible.
Please find me these two word side by side in any verse…..you won’t.

Now, can you show me from the Bible where God changed any of his first purpose.…even after the rebellion? (Isa 55:11)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Luke 23:43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This was Jesus’ promise to the thief hung alongside him at Calvary…..what did this promise mean to that man? Was he headed for heaven? Is that what Jesus promised him?
Since there was no punctuation in Greek, the commas were inserted by the translators….so how would you read that promise if the comma was placed after the word “today”?

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

If you know anything about Jewish belief in the condition of the dead, you would know that they believed in resurrection, not immortality of the soul. For Jews, death meant going to “Sheol” (Hades in Greek) It was a place to Rest In Peace to await a resurrection under Messiah’s Kingdom. (Eccl 9:5, 10) The dead are in an unconscious state, knowing “nothing”. Jews had no notion of going to heaven….it was not mentioned in their Scripture. They all knew what Sheol meant...it was a place of silence and inactivity. (Psalm 115:17)

In giving man dominion over the animals he made him superior to them as humans were the only ones promised everlasting life. The animal kingdom was given a perpetual circle of life, constantly replacing themselves through reproduction. When death entered the picture for humankind however, we lost our superiority over them. (Eccl 3:19-20) We now die the same death as they do. We have the same animating “spirit” (breath) as they do, but God made provision for man alone to live forever.

Resurrection was a restoration of life…not a continuation of it. So what was a Jewish Jesus promising a repentant criminal who had manifested a last minute change of heart?

Where was Jesus after he died? Where did he say he would be?
“….some of the scribes and the Pharisees said: “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.” 39 In reply he said to them: “A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Joʹnah the prophet. 40 For just as Joʹnah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.”

Jesus was making a parallel between himself and Jonah….just as Jonah was confined to the belly of the fish, so Jesus would be confined in his tomb for three days and nights.…then God resurrected him.
Jesus did not return to heaven for 40 days after his resurrection, so how was his promise to the criminal to be fulfilled? He wasn’t promised “heaven”…but “paradise”….and it wasn’t “that day” but in a future restoration of what God gave mankind in the beginning, but was snatched away from them by disobedient ones.

In this criminal’s understanding, he expected a resurrection….not immediately to heaven, but to a return to life in “paradise” restored to the redeemed human race. (John 5:28-29)
The whole purpose of Jesus’ sacrifice was to “buy back” what humanity lost in Eden. That is what redemption means.
God’s first purpose never went away.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Then there is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus

Parables are just that….stories with a deeper meaning, so again how did Jesus’ Jewish audience understand this parable? Taken literally, it is absurd. Are heaven and hell within speaking distance to one another?
Can a drop of water on a man’s finger cool someone in a fire?
The parable was about two classes of people…the rich man pictured the Pharisees, who treated the lower class common people like dirt, not even bothering to give them any spiritual food but condemning them as unworthy of their care or attention.
The beggar pictured those “lost sheep” to whom Jesus was sent.…subsisting on the few crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table.
Their deaths were also symbolic…..in that those in “the bosom of Abraham” (a position of favor with God) lost their status and it was given to the beggar as they swapped places with the coming of the Messiah….the rich man rejected him and would have him executed, whilst the beggar accepted Jesus as Messiah and were spared the fate of the rich man whom Jesus sentenced to “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33)

If you do some research on “Gehenna” (erroneously translated as “hell”) you will see that it was a rubbish dump outside of the walls of Jerusalem to consume any garbage that was thrown in there. Fires were kept burning day and night and even the carcasses of dead animals as well as the bodies of executed criminals were often thrown in to the fire for disposal. Nothing alive ever went into Gehenna. For a Jew, having no burial place with one’s name and family lineage inscribed, meant that God would not remember them in the resurrection to come...it was a symbol of eternal death….no resurrection.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Also
2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

You go to be with God in heaven immediately when you die

Again, you are the victim of satanic lies about heaven and hell….
What was Paul talking about here?

All of Jesus’ first disciples were Jewish and he taught exclusively from Jewish Scripture.
Right up until Christ’s ascension, they fully expected Jesus to establish his promised Kingdom then and there….(Acts 1:6) But he told them to wait until the holy spirit revealed to them more details about their own destiny. Remember that Jews did not believe in an immortal soul, nor did he teach that we “have” a soul….we “are” a soul.….a breather. The devil’s lie was adopted later from pagan Greek influence, but it is nowhere found in the Hebrew Scriptures, inspired by God. (2 Tim 3:16-17)

The disciples, once anointed with holy spirit, then understood that their own destiny would be in heaven.
The kingdom of God was to have “joint heirs” with Jesus…”kings and priests”…..those who would rule with him from heaven over redeemed mankind on earth. These, of a specific number (144,000) would be resurrected “first”. (Rev 20:6)

A “heavenly calling” was instilled in them (Heb3:1) and they began to yearn for that destiny. This is what Paul’s statement quoted above, meant. This was something new for the disciples as there was now two resurrections…one to heaven for the elect (chosen ones)…..and a later one for those redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice, on earth. There was never any “heaven or hell” scenario taught by Jesus or his apostles.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Life in HEAVEN.

And if you understand the Bible and what it teaches in it’s entirely, rather than the spin that an apostate church system placed on the words recorded in the NT, you would be able to see that these words quoted above mean something entirely different to what you have been led to believe.

A “soul” in the Bible is a living, breathing creature….this word never means a disembodied spirit. So the “souls” seen in John’s vision, were the symbolic lives of the martyrs, slain because of their faith. God’s law demands justice for all who have lost their lives for their faith.

Those resurrected to heaven are those who have not compromised their faith, but willingly died because they would not succumb to the rule of those who tried to silence them. These are the ones who will “reign with Christ for a thousand years”. These are “kings and priests”, and since there are no sinners in heaven, for whom are these priests to perform their duties…..? “Kings and priests” need subjects and sinners in order to fulfill their roles. Who are they and where will they be found? (Rev 21:2-4)

Death in the lake of fire. Its in the bible, look it up yourself. Why should we all have to do the homework for someone too lazy or afraid to do it themselves

Now that made me smile as I thought the same of yourself…..you’ve been here five minutes and already you are condemning those whose knowledge is apparently far superior to your own superficial understanding of the Scriptures you quoted…..If you had done some decent Bible study yourself, you would know better than to even raise this subject as if it has not been debated ad nauseum here for years.

Do you think you have something new and exciting to reveal to us? Sorry but it is the same old broken down set of beliefs that never originated in anything the Jewish Jesus or his apostles, ever taught.

I believe that it is you who is too lazy to do their homework. Or are you afraid of the knowledge that appears to completely escape you as you parrot off Christendom’s many errors?
A superficial understanding of the Bible’s whole narrative is evident in every point….

One thing you are correct about is that “DEATH” is in the lake of fire…..Gehenna means eternal death…..as opposed to eternal life. If the dead are not conscious as Solomon wrote, then there is no place for the dead to go except to “sleep” in “Sheol” which the Jews understood to mean their grave, not some place of eternal torment….Jesus will call the dead from their graves. (John 5:28-29)…..he said so.

I have to wonder…..what kind of god do you worship?…..one who enjoys roasting people alive forever with no way to repent…..that sound more Ike the devil.

 

[ChristinaL]

Again, you are the victim of satanic lies about heaven and hell….
What was Paul talking about here?

All of Jesus’ first disciples were Jewish and he taught exclusively from Jewish Scripture.
Right up until Christ’s ascension, they fully expected Jesus to establish his promised Kingdom then and there….(Acts 1:6) But he told them to wait until the holy spirit revealed to them more details about their own destiny. Remember that Jews did not believe in an immortal soul, nor did he teach that we “have” a soul….we “are” a soul.….a breather. The devil’s lie was adopted later from pagan Greek influence, but it is nowhere found in the Hebrew Scriptures, inspired by God. (2 Tim 3:16-17)

The disciples, once anointed with holy spirit, then understood that their own destiny would be in heaven.
The kingdom of God was to have “joint heirs” with Jesus…”kings and priests”…..those who would rule with him from heaven over redeemed mankind on earth. These, of a specific number (144,000) would be resurrected “first”. (Rev 20:6)

A “heavenly calling” was instilled in them (Heb3:1) and they began to yearn for that destiny. This is what Paul’s statement quoted above, meant. This was something new for the disciples as there was now two resurrections…one to heaven for the elect (chosen ones)…..and a later one for those redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice, on earth. There was never any “heaven or hell” scenario taught by Jesus or his apostles.

This is easy stuff to look up online, get off your lazy ass and do your own research and dump the Satanic bs lies of the JWs and SDAs whomever you are listening to. Just look up eternal soul/heaven/hell proofs in any search engine. And be careful here girl, you are blaspheming the Holy Ghost when you call the truth a Satanic lie. Paul's comment is clear and obvious even to a child. when you die you go to heaven.

Soul and spirit are also two different things. One is our eternal consciousness which the Jews did believe in and the other is the lifebreath.

 

[Aunty Jane]

This is easy stuff to look up online, get off your lazy ass and do your own research and dump the Satanic bs lies of the JWs and SDAs whomever you are listening to.

LOL…I will if you will…..who are you listening to? By your avatar I assume you hold Catholic beliefs to be truth? Perhaps you need to look up the pagan origins of Catholic church doctrine? It’s not difficult and all you need to know will become quite obvious In no time. I guess you have never done this or observed the infiltration of pagan Roman sun worship which is so obvious in the RCC?

Just look up eternal soul/heaven/hell proofs in any search engine. And be careful here girl, you are blaspheming the Holy Ghost when you call the truth a Satanic lie. Paul's comment is clear and obvious even to a child. when you die you go to heaven.

The Catholic Church was blaspheming the holy spirit (there is no such thing as a holy ghost) long before you or I were even thought about.
Not a thing taught by Roman Catholicism can find it’s origin in any teachings of Jesus Christ or in Scripture that is not manipulated to suggest what is never said.

Humans were created to live forever on earth…this is what Genesis teaches. “Heaven and hell” were not opposite destination for all human “souls”….because at death, breathing stops and life ceases…..so what appears to be clear and obvious, even to a child taught in Christendom, is a satanic lie. He is the one who said “you surely will not die”. God told Adam that death was a return to the dust…nothing more.

Jesus and his apostles foretold that an apostasy would overtake the Christian faith, just as it overtook Judaism….and it would lead the church away from God because it was engineered by the devil. The “weeds” of Jesus parable did exactly what he and the apostles said they would. (Matt 13:24-30, 36-42; Acts 20:30; 2 Thess 2:3-5; 1 Tim 4:1) A disgusting counterfeit was created that did not resemble anything Jesus taught or did.

Soul and spirit are also two different things. One is our eternal consciousness which the Jews did believe in and the other is the lifebreath.

Who gave the words this definition In English? Your Church?
A “soul” to a Jew was a living, breathing creature…..the animals in the Genesis creation account are called “souls”…these have no “eternal consciousness” because the word never meant what “the church” interpreted it to mean….they twisted the meaning in order to support their adoption of the pagan Greek notion of an “immortal soul“….something the Bible never mentions.

The “lifebreath” in animals is exactly the same as in humans…..
Solomon wrote….
“I also said in my heart about the sons of men that the true God will test them and show them that they are like animals, 19 for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.” (Eccl 3:18-20)

Animals have the same “spirit” as we do…..they breathe the same air, and when breathing stops, the animal dies…so do we.…..so unless you assume that there are animals in heaven, your argument falls flat.

And before you bring in Eccl 12:7….also written by Solomon….
“Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.”
It is not the “soul” that returns to God, but the spirit, as you rightly said….the “life breath”….returns to the one who gave it because, in the resurrection, God is the only one who can give that lifebreath back to the ones he re-creates. There is no such thing as an “immortal soul”…..and you will not find a single verse in Scripture that says so.

Your arguments are based on beliefs that were introduced into “Christianity“ long after the death of Christ and his apostles, but the foretold apostasy is not new…it was surfacing before the end of the first century and the apostles were keeping it at bay until the last books of the Christian Scriptures were penned by the apostle John. (The Revelation and his last three letters)

In the intervening centuries before the rise of Roman Catholicism, the Christian faith declined as the teachings of men undermined the Christian message and corrupt men took “the church” in a very wrong direction, so that in the 4th century, it was ripe for the introduction of of a complete departure from everything Jesus taught.

What masquerades as “Christianity” today is a mangled mess of conflicting beliefs, but all centered on the three main doctrines introduced by the RCC. This faulty foundation forms the basis of all in Christendom’s divided church system, which is why God does not see denominations at all……he sees only, “wheat and weeds”….”sheep and goats”…..genuine Christians and false ones.…..but the bottom line is…don’t look for the majority to lead anyone to Christian truth because Jesus already told us that “few” will be found on the road to life (Matt 7:13-14) so we are to look for a hated minority who are derided as ‘heretics’ because we will not fall for Satan’s ancient lies. (John 15:18-21) The majority are blissfully unaware of their destination whist they travel the easy road…..and will soon find out that their faith was misplaced. (Matt 7:21-23) Despite their protests, they will suffer rejection of the worst kind, because like the Pharisees and those influenced by them, they chose the lies as their truth and rejected the truth as lies.

There is a big picture that so many are missing because they are willfully blinded by the one who rules this world (2 Cor 4:3-4; 1 John 5:19)…the one who is a master deceiver and who plays on sinful human pride….that inner voice that tells them they cannot be wrong because of how many share their beliefs…..beware…..the apostle Paul warned….
”So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall.” (1 Cor 10:12)

 

[Behold]

The grave is real...everyone goes there!

Everyone's body goes to the grave...... you meant to say.

But their spirit, left their body, before their body was put in a casket, and placed in a grave.

 

[Behold]

What masquerades as “Christianity” today is a mangled mess of conflicting beliefs, but all centered on the three main doctrines introduced by the RCC.

Satans 2 great (religious) deceptions that try to present themselves as "Christianity", are....

1.) The RCC.. "the cult of Mary"

2.) Calvinism, and its evolved version, known as Hyper, or "TULIP".

The "other" great Satanic religious system that owns billions of people is : ISLAM

 

[Jack]

Hell will be filled with those who don't believe in Hell!

 

[Behold]

Hell will be filled with those who don't believe in Hell!

Everyone who went to Hell, yesterday, today, and tomorrow, ........they all believe in it now.

 

[TheHC]

…get off your lazy ass…

Really? You resort to such speech, and claim to follow Christ?

Something’s wrong with that.

 

[Behold]

Hell will be filled with those who don't believe in Hell!

Everyone who went to Hell, today, and yesterday, and tomorrow..........they all "believe in Hell", now.

And, they all believe in Jesus, now.

It wont help them.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Everyone who went to Hell, today, and yesterday, and tomorrow..........they all "believe in Hell", now.

Since “hell” (sheol/hades) is “the grave”…..every single human who has ever died, has gone to “hell”….it is a place of rest….with no consciousness or activity as Solomon wrote in Eccl 9:5,6,10. Even their “love” has “perished”. Is there no love after death if souls are conscious and active?

The “hell” you refer to is “Gehenna” which is called “the lake of fire”, described in Revelation 21:8 as “the second death”. Translating both “hades” and “Gehenna” as “hell” is a travesty!

What makes this “death” different from the first kind? Unlike “hades”, from which the dead are raised back to life, (Rev 20:13-14) “Gehenna” is eternal death….a death from which no return is possible.

“Eternal death” is the opposite of “eternal life”….there is no conscious life after death, as is taught in every false religion.…because it is nothing but a perpetuation of the devil’s first lie…”you surely will not die”….
It has been over 6000 years since that first lie was told….and satan still has the majority of mankind believing it. This is what creates the fear of death….following Christ then becomes a means of self preservation, not a way to serve his God out of love.

And, they all believe in Jesus, now.

It wont help them.

They will believe Jesus when he calls them out of their graves, back to this life and a happy reunion with dearly loved relatives and friends. (John 5:28-29) Those who have proven faithful to death will come back to “ a resurrection of life”….but those who lived a life of sin, (even “those who did vile things”) not knowing the true God or his Christ, and not having any knowledge of his provision of salvation, will also be raised to a period of “judgment”, again erroneously translated as “condemnation” in some Bibles.

God will not hold anyone accountable for sins committed in ignorance. God’s justice does not work for the detriment of people who didn’t know better. He gives all ample time to listen and to learn…..only then will he judge them at the end of the thousand year reign of God’s Kingdom, when satan is released from his prison for one last test. (Rev 20:1-3)

The Jesus you speak of is nothing more than a cruel dictator…..he came to save sinners, and to guide and direct righteous ones back to a God they had lost contact with due to poor leadership….Jesus did not go to the corrupt religious leaders who had proven themselves incorrigible (Matt 23:33)…..he went to the humble ones whom the religious leaders deemed unworthy of their time and attention…..

In your condemnation, you sound as if you enjoy the prospect of eternal suffering (Ezek 33:11) God derives no pleasure from the death of the wicked, let alone their eternal suffering…….no penalty under God’s law involved prolonged torture. Penalties were imposed to fit the crime committed. Punishment was meant to lead a person to repent…and to change course.
Death was the worst penalty anyone could suffer.…and only for capital crimes.

The God that you and @Jack serve is nothing like the God and Father of Jesus Christ. His justice involves no cruelty…..and no conscious everlasting punishment, just for the sake of it.

 

[Behold]

Since “hell” (sheol/hades) is “the grave”…

Jesus said that its better to cut off your hand, and pluck out your own eye then to go to "Hell".

That's not the "grave".

Your cult, that teaches that Hell is "the grave", is not of God.

 

[TheHC]

Everyone who went to Hell, today, and yesterday, and tomorrow..........they all "believe in Hell", now.

And, they all believe in Jesus, now.

It wont help them.

But “God is love.” - 1 John 4:8.
What you’re promoting, this understanding, isn’t love.

Revelation 20:13,14 says…
“13And the sea gave up the dead that were in it: and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them. And they were judged, every one according to their works. 14And hell and death were cast into the pool of fire. This is the second death.”

When Hell ‘gives up’ it’s dead, that is when the Resurrection occurs. (Acts 24:15) And since death is the ‘payment’ for sin (Romans 6:7,23), there’s no judgement for past or prior sins.

The judgment comes from how people act / behave after they’ve been resurrected.

And Hell, ‘thrown into the Lake of Fire,’ will be gone forever.

This understanding makes better sense, because God is loving & just, not harsh & cruel!

Ecclesiastes 9:5… “…the dead know nothing.”

 

[Behold]

When Hell ‘gives up’ it’s dead, that is when the Resurrection occurs.

That the Great White Throne Judgement..

Rev 20:11

If you are in that situation, you wont be staying in Heaven, because you were this one..........John 3:36

 

[TheHC]

Jesus said that its better to cut off your hand, and pluck out your own eye then to go to "Hell".

The Greek word Jesus used there isn’t the word for “Hell” (or Hades). It’s the word for “Gehenna” (or Ge’enna).. Look it up.

Completely different meaning.

 

[Jack]

Everyone who went to Hell, today, and yesterday, and tomorrow..........they all "believe in Hell", now.

And, they all believe in Jesus, now.

It wont help them.

Well said!!!

 

[Jack]

The God that you and @Jack serve is nothing like the God and Father of Jesus Christ. His justice involves no cruelty…..and no conscious everlasting punishment, just for the sake of it.

Cruelty is your word. Glad I didn't say that about God! God drowning all on earth but 8 was justice and righteousness! He had His reasons and He's always right, even when He burned Sodom alive, as the NT says, "making them an example"! Do JW's believe anything in the Bible?