HE CHOSE US

[Johann]

HE CHOSE US

Old Testament
YHWH Chose Israel (taken from Deut. 14:2)
 The VERB (BDB 103, KB 119, Qal PERFECT) is used of God's sovereign choice of:
Abraham, Gen. 12:1; Neh. 9:7
the Patriarchs, Deut. 7:8
the descendants of the Patriarchs, Deut. 4:37; 10:15
Israel, Deut. 7:6; Ps. 135:4; Isa. 44:1,8; 43:10; Ezek. 20:5
Jeshurun (Israel or Jerusalem), Deut. 32:15; 33:5,26; Isa. 44:2
an Israeli king (a symbol of YHWH's rule, which would foreshadow David [cf. 1 Sam. 10:24; 16:8,9,10; 2 Sam. 6:21], who became a Messianic figure), Deut. 17:14-17
place for His name to dwell (i.e., central sanctuary), Deut. 12:5,11,14,18,21,26; 14:24; 15:20; 16:2,6,7,11,15; 17:8,10; 31:11
God's sovereignty and purpose is expressed in His choice of Israel. God's "choice" in the OT is always related to service, not necessarily salvation, as it is in the NT. Israel was to reveal YHWH to the whole world, so that all the world might be saved (cf. Gen. 12:3; quoted in Titus 2:14 and I Pet. 2:9). See SPECIAL TOPIC: YHWH'S ETERNAL REDEMPTIVE PLAN.
Moses Chooses Leaders/Judges – YHWH Appoints them (taken from Deut. 1:13)
 This VERB (BDB 396, KB 393) is a Qal IMPERATIVE. Notice that Moses was commanding the people (i.e., their leaders) to take responsibility (they choose) for the community along with himself (Moses appoints). These new judges (i.e., tribal leaders) were to be:
"wise" – (BDB 314) meaning capable of thoughtful and godly choices (e.g., Joseph, Gen. 41:33,39; David, 2 Sam. 14:20; Solomon, 1 Kgs. 2:9; 3:12; 5:21)
"discerning" – (BDB 106, KB 122, Niphal PARTICIPLE) meaning someone who has discretion, discernment, and intelligence (e.g., Joseph, Gen. 41:33; negative in Jer. 4:22)
"experience" – (BDB 393, KB 390, Qal PASSIVE PARTICIPLE). This is a common word with a large semantic field.
NASB, TEV, NJB, JPSOA – experienced
NKJB – knowledgeable
NRSV, REB – reputable
JB – tested
NIV – respected
NET – known
I will appoint them" – The VERB (BDB 962, KB 1321) is a Qal IMPERFECT, used in the sense of a COHORTATIVE. Moses set or appointed these chosen men to places of leadership and judgment (e.g., Exod. 1:11; 18:21; Deut. 17:14,15; Jdgs. 11:11). However, in reality, it was YHWH who "took" (BDB 542, KB 534, Qal IMPERFECT, Deut. 1:15) them, which denotes God's choice (e.g., Deut. 4:20,34; 1 Kgs. 11:37). The human process followed a divine plan!
YHWH Chose a King (taken from Deut. 17:14)
"and you say, 'I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me'"
The VERB is a Qal COHORTATIVE (BDB 962, KB 1321). It is repeated four times in Deut. 17:14 and 15. The second (Qal INFINITIVE ABSOLUTE) and third (Qal IMPERFECT) usages go together as a way of intensification:
NASB, NKJV – "you shall surely set"
NRSV – "you may indeed set"
TEV – "be sure"
The problem was not a king, but a "king ‘like all the nations who are around me'"! The king was to represent YHWH (cf. Deut. 17: 8), not Oriental pagan courts. This very issue is dealt with when Israel asked Samuel for a king in 1 Samuel 8.
"whom the Lord your God chooses"
God is sovereign, He (not Israel, cf. Deut. 17:14) chooses the man, but Israel confirms His choice by their affirmation (e.g., Jdgs. 11:11; Hos. 1:11).
Notice the guidelines for kingship:
when Israel possesses the land, Deut. 17:14
one whom YHWH chooses, Deut. 17:15
not a foreigner, Deut. 17:15
he shall not trust in military armament ("multiply horses"), Deut. 17:16
he shall not seek help from Egypt, Deut. 17:16
he shall not trust in political allegiances ("multiply wives"), Deut. 17:17
he shall not trust in wealth ("increase silver and gold"), Deut. 17:17
Numbers 4-7 reflect Solomon's abuses! It is unique in ANE law that the king has his powers limited, but in Israel God:
sets the place and procedures of justice
sets the pattern of worship
sets limits on kingly power, succession, and wealth
the king is one among many covenant partners (cf. Deut. 17:20)
the king must study regularly and implement (personally and officially) God's laws (cf. Deut. 17:18-19)

New Testament (from Ephesians 1)
Eph. 1:3 – "He chose us" is an AORIST MIDDLE INDICATIVE which emphasized the subject's decisive choice. This focused on the Father's choice before time. God's choice must not be understood in the Islamic sense of determinism nor in the ultra Calvinistic sense of "God chooses some versus God did not choose others," but in a covenantal sense. God promised to redeem fallen mankind (cf. Gen. 3:15). God called and chose Abraham to choose all humans. God Himself elected all persons who would exercise faith in Christ (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; 4:42; 1 Tim. 2:4; Titus 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9; 1 John 2:2; 4:14). God always takes the initiative in salvation (cf. John 6:44, 65), but humans must respond in repentance, faith, obedience, and perseverance. This text (Eph. 1:4) and Rom. 8:28-30; 9:1-33 are the main NT texts for the doctrine of predestination emphasized by Augustine and Calvin. God chose believers not only to salvation (justification) but also to sanctification (cf. Eph. 1:4; 2:8-10; Col. 1:12)! This could relate to
our position in Christ (cf. 2 Cor. 5:21)
God's desire to reproduce His character in His children (cf. Eph. 2:10; Rom. 8:28-29; Gal. 4:19; 1 Thess. 4:3)
God's will for His children is both heaven one day and Christlikeness now!
Eph. 1:4 – "that we should be holy and blameless before Him"
The goal of predestination is holiness, not privilege. God's call is not to a selected few of Adam's children, but to all! It is a call to be what God intended mankind to be, like Himself (cf. Rom. 8:28-30; 2 Cor. 3:18; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 4:13; 1 Thess. 4:7; 5:23; 2 Thess. 2:13; Titus 2:14; 1 Pet. 1:15); in His image (cf. Gen. 1:26-27). To turn predestination into a theological tenet instead of a holy life is a tragedy. Often our a priori systematic theologies speak louder than biblical texts! The term "blameless" (amōmos) or "free from blemish" is used of
Jesus, (cf. Heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 1:19)
Zacharias and Elizabeth, (cf. Luke 1:6)
Paul (cf. Phil 3:6)
all true Christians (cf. Phil. 2:15; 1 Thess. 3:13; 5:23)
God's unalterable will for every believer is not only heaven later, but Christlikeness now (cf. Rom. 8:29-30; 2 Cor. 3:18; Gal. 4:19; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3; 1 Pet. 1:15). Believers are to reflect God's characteristics to a lost world for the purpose of evangelism.
SPECIAL TOPIC: YHWH'S ETERNAL REDEMPTIVE PLAN

SPECIAL TOPIC: ELECTION

SPECIAL TOPIC: PREDESTINATION

SPECIAL TOPIC: HE CHOSE US

HE CHOSE US -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

www.freebiblecommentary.org

 

[amigo de christo]

Always remember islam is a religion of darkness
and unless one repents of it they walk in darkness .
This goes for any other religoin .
Our duty and our mission , IF we really do love the lost , IS to preach to all the absolute dire necessity
to believe JESUS is the CHRIST , to confess him by mouth and beleive that GOD rose him from the dead .
This was and is just a friendly reminder to all .

 

[Behold]

God chose the born again "IN Christ"..

This does not mean that God chooses us to become "in Christ", .. .and we have no choice.

It means that before you were born... God knew who is going to TRUST IN CHRIST.... after Jesus was RISEN from Dead....to then become "IN CHRIST". "by FAITH".

So, this "Fore-knowing".... that is God's Foreknowledge, is to KNOW who is going to be "IN CHRIST", which is why they are called the "chosen".

John the devil Calvin, and the TULIP Heads, have twisted God's Foreknowledge, into God pre-destined, and that is the core ROT of Satanic Calvinism Theology.

Reader, CHRISTianity is built on FAITH.

Faith that God is Real.
Faith that Christ is Risen.

And God does not cause you to BELIEVE in those....>>He requires that you do.. or else you are under the Wrath of God... for your UNBELIEF.......that is YOURS..........not God's.

Hell is filled with people who went there, not because God didnt pre-destine them to believe, but because they had all their LIFE to believe, and wouldn't. = UNBELIEVERS... and that is on THEM.. as they chose it.

"for is we sin WILLFULLY, there remains no more SACRIFICE"..

See that? That means if you chose to DIE in unbelief, then you chose WILLFULLY to reject the only SACRIFICE for your SIN, who is JESUS.

You will die and go to HELL for that FREE WILL choice., = and thousands did today.

Dont be one of them, waiting to go, reader.

John 3:36

Calvin, and the fools who Idolize Him... changed God's Requirement of FAITH in Christ..... into God "pre-destined you", as if you have no FREE WILL to BELIEVE.

Reader,
do not READ John Calvin's Teachings, or the later revisions...... as these "doctrines of devils'... will take over your mind and blind it for life, against the Grace of God, and the correct understanding of The Cross of Christ....and Real FAITH.., So, do not listen to those who have the Galatians 1:8 curse on them, = that is a mental issue, and what the NT refers to as a "STRONGHOLD"...mental issue that Calvin causes in his DISCIPLES.
He'll do it to you, Reader, if you give Calvin or His Disciples your Open Mind.
Do NOT do it. !

 

[amigo de christo]

God chose the born again "IN Christ"..

This does not mean that God chooses us to become "in Christ", .. .and we have no choice.

It means that before you were born... God knew who is going to TRUST IN CHRIST.... after Jesus was RISEN from Dead....to then become "IN CHRIST". "by FAITH".

So, this "Fore-knowing".... that is God's Foreknowledge, is to KNOW who is going to be "IN CHRIST", which is why they are called the "chosen".

John the devil Calvin, and the TULIP Heads, have twisted God's Foreknowledge, into God pre-destined, and that is the core ROT of Satanic Calvinism Theology.

Reader, CHRISTianity is built on FAITH.

Faith that God is Real.
Faith that Christ is Risen.

And God does not cause you to BELIEVE in those....>>He requires that you do.. or else you are under the Wrath of God... for your UNBELIEF.......that is YOURS..........not God's.

Hell is filled with people who went there, not because God didnt pre-destine them to believe, but because they had all their LIFE to believe, and wouldn't. = UNBELIEVERS... and that is on THEM.. as they chose it.

"for is we sin WILLFULLY, there remains no more SACRIFICE"..

See that? That means if you chose to DIE in unbelief, then you chose WILLFULLY to reject the only SACRIFICE for your SIN, who is JESUS.

You will die and go to HELL for that FREE WILL choice., = and thousands did today.

Dont be one of them, waiting to go, reader.

John 3:36

Calvin, and the fools who Idolize Him... changed God's Requirement of FAITH in Christ..... into God "pre-destined you", as if you have no FREE WILL to BELIEVE.

Reader,
do not READ John Calvin's Teachings, or the later revisions...... as these "doctrines of devils'... will take over your mind and blind it for life, against the Grace of God, and the correct understanding of The Cross of Christ....and Real FAITH.., So, do not listen to those who have the Galatians 1:8 curse on them, = that is a mental issue, and what the NT refers to as a "STRONGHOLD"...mental issue that Calvin causes in his DISCIPLES.
He'll do it to you, Reader, if you give Calvin or His Disciples your Open Mind.
Do NOT do it. !

Beware O christendom , Beware , a cry is being made
and a lie has been sent to merge this people and all false religoins to be as one .
The cry is now being sounded out that the christain truth is no better than the muslim truth or any other religions truth .
NOW I SEEN THIS with my own eyes . Folks had better beware . the gospel has been replaced
within a lot of christendom . THEY are trying to make us beleive a lie . AND they know how to decieve .
I have to seriously question why this article would even have put ISLAM into it , as though somehow
islam is amongst us as is calvin and etc . Folks didnt spot that , BUT I DID .
WHY was islam even brought into this .
Islam in no way cometh of GOD . now at least calivinism was tied into christanity , THOUGH I sure dont agree with
them doctrines . But you need to ask yourself .WHY did the writer even bring ISLAM into the picture.
Sure it said a negative about islam but was fast to put in ultra calvinsim and its error too .AS THOUGH .
AS though WHAT . what is this writer trying to sneak into our heads . What idea do you think .
CAUSE I SMELLS A HUGE rat . ISLAM is of the devil himself . HECK they dont even preach the gospel
they dont even believe JESUS IS THE CHRIST , IS THE SON of GOD . at least calvinists DO .
I SMELL A RAT my friend . Not accusing JOHANN . cause HE DIDNT write it . IT LOOKS cut copy and pasted .
WE had bette watch OUT .

 

[Johann]

Beware O christendom , Beware , a cry is being made
and a lie has been sent to merge this people and all false religoins to be as one .
The cry is now being sounded out that the christain truth is no better than the muslim truth or any other religions truth .
NOW I SEEN THIS with my own eyes . Folks had better beware . the gospel has been replaced
within a lot of christendom . THEY are trying to make us beleive a lie . AND they know how to decieve .
I have to seriously question why this article would even have put ISLAM into it , as though somehow
islam is amongst us as is calvin and etc . Folks didnt spot that , BUT I DID .
WHY was islam even brought into this .
Islam in no way cometh of GOD . now at least calivinism was tied into christanity , THOUGH I sure dont agree with
them doctrines . But you need to ask yourself .WHY did the writer even bring ISLAM into the picture.
Sure it said a negative about islam but was fast to put in ultra calvinsim and its error too .AS THOUGH .
AS though WHAT . what is this writer trying to sneak into our heads . What idea do you think .
CAUSE I SMELLS A HUGE rat . ISLAM is of the devil himself . HECK they dont even preach the gospel
they dont even believe JESUS IS THE CHRIST , IS THE SON of GOD . at least calvinists DO .
I SMELL A RAT my friend . Not accusing JOHANN . cause HE DIDNT write it . IT LOOKS cut copy and pasted .
WE had bette watch OUT .

Please get out of my sight and stop bellyaching or go and study your bible.

Whatever I post is for God's glory and magnify Jesus' Name.

Or go to your nearest church and let them excommunicate you.

J.

 

[amigo de christo]

Please get out of my sight and stop bellyaching or go and study your bible.

Whatever I post is for God's glory and magnify Jesus' Name.

Or go to your nearest church and let them excommunicate you.

J.

They already have friend . They already have .
they have exommunicated the true lambs and hold dear to the false hoods .
I AM blessed . thank THE LORD FOR THIS blessing too .
To seem a fool , uneducated and unwise to THIS CHURCH age , IS A BLESSING cause it has TANKED friend .
Tanked .
SO now i leave us with a question . WHY did they put ISLAM into this . You cannot discern the WHY can you .
THEY GONNA MERGE YA buddy . as though ISLAM is even on the same page as ultra calivinism .
What i am about to say will might anger you , I KNOW IT WILL many within christendom ,
BUT HERE GOES . ISLAM IS OF THE DEVIL . TIME TO PREACH THE REAL JESUS THE CHRIST . have a great day friend .
my mind is made up .

 

[Marvelloustime]

They already have friend . They already have .
they have exommunicated the true lambs and hold dear to the false hoods .
I AM blessed . thank THE LORD FOR THIS blessing too .
To seem a fool , uneducated and unwise to THIS CHURCH age , IS A BLESSING cause it has TANKED friend .
Tanked .
SO now i leave us with a question . WHY did they put ISLAM into this . You cannot discern the WHY can you .
THEY GONNA MERGE YA buddy . as though ISLAM is even on the same page as ultra calivinism .
What i am about to say will might anger you , I KNOW IT WILL many within christendom ,
BUT HERE GOES . ISLAM IS OF THE DEVIL . TIME TO PREACH THE REAL JESUS THE CHRIST . have a great day friend .
my mind is made up .

 

[PossibleThrowawayAccount]

YHWH Chose Israel

He chose Israel because Abraham, on his own volition, worshipped Him. God did not pick Abraham or his descendants out of randomness or because He liked him more than everyone else.

A heretic named John Calvin believed that God chose those who convert to Christianity. In actuality, people come to God on their own free will. If God removed free will from mankind and chose who would be saved, He would choose EVERYBODY.

I can tell you one thing, if God individually picked who comes to Him, I know he definitely would not have chosen me.

Edited to add: If God chose people individually, would that mean he went "Nahh" when it comes to people who leave Christianity?

 

[Johann]

He chose Israel because Abraham, on his own volition, worshipped Him. God did not pick Abraham or his descendants out of randomness or because He liked him more than everyone else.

A heretic named John Calvin believed that God chose those who convert to Christianity. In actuality, people come to God on their own free will. If God removed free will from mankind and chose who would be saved, He would choose EVERYBODY.

I can tell you one thing, if God individually picked who comes to Him, I know he definitely would not have chosen me.

Edited to add: If God chose people individually, would that mean he went "Nahh" when it comes to people who leave Christianity?

Why bring Calvin-ism into the picture?


Corporate Election: God Choosing Israel and the Church
Throughout scripture, God is seen choosing entire groups of people for specific purposes.

Deuteronomy 7:6-8 (NKJV)
Israel is described as God's chosen people, selected not because of their merit but because of God's love and the promises made to their forefathers (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob):
“For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers...”
Here, God’s choice of Israel is seen as corporate, grounded in His covenant with Abraham, and not based on individual merit.

1 Peter 2:9 (NKJV)
The New Testament continues this theme of corporate election, referring to the Church as a chosen people:
“But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.”
In this case, the Church as a whole is identified as God’s chosen people, called for a specific purpose in His redemptive plan.

2. Individual Election: God’s Sovereign Choice of Individuals
Scripture also speaks of God choosing individuals for specific roles or purposes.

Jeremiah 1:5 (NKJV)
In the case of the prophet Jeremiah, God chose him before his birth for a particular mission:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
This passage suggests that God had a predetermined plan for Jeremiah’s life and ministry, emphasizing God’s individual election of certain people for specific purposes.

Ephesians 1:4-5 (NKJV)
The Apostle Paul speaks of believers being chosen by God from before the foundation of the world:
“Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.”
This passage is often cited to support the idea that individual believers are chosen by God for salvation in Christ before time began. The Arminian view interprets this election as being based on God’s foreknowledge of those who will freely choose Him, rather than an unconditional choice apart from human response.

3. God’s Foreknowledge and Human Free Will
Romans 8:29-30 (NKJV)
This passage is foundational in understanding election in light of God’s foreknowledge:
“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”
The Arminian interpretation of this passage emphasizes that God’s predestination is based on His foreknowledge of who would choose to believe in Him. In this view, individuals are not chosen arbitrarily but are elected based on their response to God’s offer of salvation.

2 Peter 3:9 (NKJV)
This verse highlights God’s desire for all people to come to repentance, emphasizing His universal offer of salvation:
“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”
This suggests that God’s will is for all people to have the opportunity to be saved, reinforcing the idea of human free will in responding to God's call.

4. Jesus’ Call to Individuals
John 15:16 (NKJV)
Jesus specifically tells His disciples that He chose them individually:
“You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.”
Here, Jesus affirms that His calling of the disciples was an intentional, personal choice.

Acts 9:15 (NKJV)
In the case of Saul (later Paul), God tells Ananias that Saul is a “chosen vessel” of His:
“But the Lord said to him, 'Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.'”
This is another example of God choosing an individual for a particular mission, in this case, Paul’s ministry to the Gentiles.


Yes, God does choose individuals for specific roles, purposes, and missions, as seen in the cases of people like Abraham, Jeremiah, the disciples, and Paul. However, the broader biblical narrative also supports a corporate aspect of election, where God chooses groups of people, such as Israel and the Church, to fulfill His redemptive plan. From an Arminian perspective, God's individual election is often viewed as being based on His foreknowledge of those who will choose to follow Him through faith in Jesus Christ, preserving human free will in the process of salvation.
Election of Israel for Service
Deuteronomy 7:6-8 (NKJV)
As seen earlier, God’s election of Israel was not because of their inherent greatness but because of His purpose to fulfill His covenant with Abraham:
“For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth.”
However, this election was primarily for service—Israel was chosen to be a light to the nations, to display God's righteousness, and to serve His purpose of redemption. This is seen in Isaiah 49:6, where Israel’s role is described as being “a light to the Gentiles.”

Exodus 19:6 (NKJV)
Israel’s election is further described as being set apart as a kingdom of priests and a holy nation, signifying their service to God:
“And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.”
This shows that their election was to serve in a priestly capacity, representing God to the nations and leading in worship and obedience to Him.

2. The Election of Individuals for Service
Jeremiah 1:5 (NKJV)
As mentioned earlier, God’s election of Jeremiah was for a specific service as a prophet to the nations:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
Jeremiah’s calling shows that election is often linked to the role or task God has for an individual, rather than a salvific guarantee.

Romans 9:10-13 (NKJV)
The story of Jacob and Esau is sometimes interpreted as an example of election for service rather than salvation:
“And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, ‘The older shall serve the younger.’”
The emphasis here is on God’s purpose for Jacob and Esau—Jacob was chosen for the service of continuing the line through which the promises would come. Esau, though not chosen for this specific role, was not necessarily excluded from salvation, but Jacob was elected for a particular mission.

3. Election of the Church for Service
1 Peter 2:9 (NKJV)
The election of the Church, described as a “chosen generation” and “royal priesthood,” is clearly oriented toward service in proclaiming the gospel and bearing witness to God’s truth:
“But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.”
The purpose of the Church’s election is to serve as God’s representative on earth, sharing the gospel and living out the kingdom values. This election is not solely about personal salvation but about being set apart for the work of God.

4. Jesus’ Election of the Disciples for Service
John 15:16 (NKJV)
Jesus' election of His disciples emphasizes their service in bearing fruit and fulfilling God’s mission:
“You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.”
The disciples were chosen not for personal salvation only but primarily for the task of spreading the gospel, planting the early Church, and continuing the work of Jesus.





Corporate and individual-election is for service-

J.

 

[Behold]

If God removed free will from mankind and chose who would be saved, He would choose EVERYBODY.

Another way to realize the error of Calvinism, is regarding .... "caused to believe"

Calvin teaches that God chooses some (elect) to be pre-destined.. which means that God causes them to believe.

Why is this false?

Its because God accepts the BELIEVER, based on THEIR Faith....... = "Your faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness."

And "God has give to every man THE measure of Faith".

See that? That is in everyone....and God wants EVERYONE to place that Faith in Christ......and those who do, are "born again".. and all who wont are found here..

John 3:36

So, if the person is too depraved to believe "T" in "TULIP", as Calvin's heretics teach, according to Calvin's "doctrine of devils", then this means that God would be accepting HIS Faith, that He caused to have in Christ..........vs, accepting THEIR faith.. that THEY Gave to Christ..

God accepts YOUR Faith, Reader........>He doesn't need His...>>He is looking for YOURS.

As without "FAITH"...= its impossible to please God" and its impossible to be born again, and so, that is YOUR FAITH that YOU Give God, that God accepts.
Not His...

Calvin is a Cross rejecting Liar, and his Heretics who teach his "doctrine of Devils' are exactly the same.

 

[GodsGrace]

He chose Israel because Abraham, on his own volition, worshipped Him. God did not pick Abraham or his descendants out of randomness or because He liked him more than everyone else.

A heretic named John Calvin believed that God chose those who convert to Christianity. In actuality, people come to God on their own free will. If God removed free will from mankind and chose who would be saved, He would choose EVERYBODY.

I can tell you one thing, if God individually picked who comes to Him, I know he definitely would not have chosen me.

Edited to add: If God chose people individually, would that mean he went "Nahh" when it comes to people who leave Christianity?

Yes. Your last line is correct AND for no reason at all !
The entire point of the gospel is to make mean aware of God and HOW to become saved.


What exactly do calvinists believe the Apostles were sent out to preach:
" We're here and we're going to preach just like Jesus said we should....
but it won't really make much difference because anyway it's up to God to decide who ill
be saved and who won't.....but we thought we'd do some preaching anyway".

It would be comedic were it not so sad.

The gospel gives to EVERYONE the opportunity to become saved.
THAT is the GOOD NEWS!

 

[PGS11]

He didn't choose us he created us for heaven it was always the plan and it still is the plan.Thank to our Lord for bringing us back into the light.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why bring Calvin-ism into the picture?


Corporate Election: God Choosing Israel and the Church
Throughout scripture, God is seen choosing entire groups of people for specific purposes.

Deuteronomy 7:6-8 (NKJV)
Israel is described as God's chosen people, selected not because of their merit but because of God's love and the promises made to their forefathers (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob):
“For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers...”
Here, God’s choice of Israel is seen as corporate, grounded in His covenant with Abraham, and not based on individual merit.

1 Peter 2:9 (NKJV)
The New Testament continues this theme of corporate election, referring to the Church as a chosen people:
“But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.”
In this case, the Church as a whole is identified as God’s chosen people, called for a specific purpose in His redemptive plan.

2. Individual Election: God’s Sovereign Choice of Individuals
Scripture also speaks of God choosing individuals for specific roles or purposes.

Jeremiah 1:5 (NKJV)
In the case of the prophet Jeremiah, God chose him before his birth for a particular mission:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
This passage suggests that God had a predetermined plan for Jeremiah’s life and ministry, emphasizing God’s individual election of certain people for specific purposes.

Ephesians 1:4-5 (NKJV)
The Apostle Paul speaks of believers being chosen by God from before the foundation of the world:
“Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.”
This passage is often cited to support the idea that individual believers are chosen by God for salvation in Christ before time began. The Arminian view interprets this election as being based on God’s foreknowledge of those who will freely choose Him, rather than an unconditional choice apart from human response.

3. God’s Foreknowledge and Human Free Will
Romans 8:29-30 (NKJV)
This passage is foundational in understanding election in light of God’s foreknowledge:
“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”
The Arminian interpretation of this passage emphasizes that God’s predestination is based on His foreknowledge of who would choose to believe in Him. In this view, individuals are not chosen arbitrarily but are elected based on their response to God’s offer of salvation.

2 Peter 3:9 (NKJV)
This verse highlights God’s desire for all people to come to repentance, emphasizing His universal offer of salvation:
“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”
This suggests that God’s will is for all people to have the opportunity to be saved, reinforcing the idea of human free will in responding to God's call.

4. Jesus’ Call to Individuals
John 15:16 (NKJV)
Jesus specifically tells His disciples that He chose them individually:
“You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.”
Here, Jesus affirms that His calling of the disciples was an intentional, personal choice.

Acts 9:15 (NKJV)
In the case of Saul (later Paul), God tells Ananias that Saul is a “chosen vessel” of His:
“But the Lord said to him, 'Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.'”
This is another example of God choosing an individual for a particular mission, in this case, Paul’s ministry to the Gentiles.


Yes, God does choose individuals for specific roles, purposes, and missions, as seen in the cases of people like Abraham, Jeremiah, the disciples, and Paul. However, the broader biblical narrative also supports a corporate aspect of election, where God chooses groups of people, such as Israel and the Church, to fulfill His redemptive plan. From an Arminian perspective, God's individual election is often viewed as being based on His foreknowledge of those who will choose to follow Him through faith in Jesus Christ, preserving human free will in the process of salvation.
Election of Israel for Service
Deuteronomy 7:6-8 (NKJV)
As seen earlier, God’s election of Israel was not because of their inherent greatness but because of His purpose to fulfill His covenant with Abraham:
“For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth.”
However, this election was primarily for service—Israel was chosen to be a light to the nations, to display God's righteousness, and to serve His purpose of redemption. This is seen in Isaiah 49:6, where Israel’s role is described as being “a light to the Gentiles.”

Exodus 19:6 (NKJV)
Israel’s election is further described as being set apart as a kingdom of priests and a holy nation, signifying their service to God:
“And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.”
This shows that their election was to serve in a priestly capacity, representing God to the nations and leading in worship and obedience to Him.

2. The Election of Individuals for Service
Jeremiah 1:5 (NKJV)
As mentioned earlier, God’s election of Jeremiah was for a specific service as a prophet to the nations:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
Jeremiah’s calling shows that election is often linked to the role or task God has for an individual, rather than a salvific guarantee.

Romans 9:10-13 (NKJV)
The story of Jacob and Esau is sometimes interpreted as an example of election for service rather than salvation:
“And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, ‘The older shall serve the younger.’”
The emphasis here is on God’s purpose for Jacob and Esau—Jacob was chosen for the service of continuing the line through which the promises would come. Esau, though not chosen for this specific role, was not necessarily excluded from salvation, but Jacob was elected for a particular mission.

3. Election of the Church for Service
1 Peter 2:9 (NKJV)
The election of the Church, described as a “chosen generation” and “royal priesthood,” is clearly oriented toward service in proclaiming the gospel and bearing witness to God’s truth:
“But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.”
The purpose of the Church’s election is to serve as God’s representative on earth, sharing the gospel and living out the kingdom values. This election is not solely about personal salvation but about being set apart for the work of God.

4. Jesus’ Election of the Disciples for Service
John 15:16 (NKJV)
Jesus' election of His disciples emphasizes their service in bearing fruit and fulfilling God’s mission:
“You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.”
The disciples were chosen not for personal salvation only but primarily for the task of spreading the gospel, planting the early Church, and continuing the work of Jesus.





Corporate and individual-election is for service-

J.

Good. Great post.
Election/predestination is in the bible....
but it's always for HOW or for PURPOSE.

Never for WHO....
God desires that all be saved....
1 Timothy 2:3-4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

He didn't choose us he created us for heaven it was always the plan and it still is the plan.Thank to our Lord for bringing us back into the light.

I think you need to read the entire OP and also post no. 9...

 

[Lambano]

What exactly do calvinists believe the Apostles were sent out to preach:
" We're here and we're going to preach just like Jesus said we should....
but it won't really make much difference because anyway it's up to God to decide who ill
be saved and who won't.....but we thought we'd do some preaching anyway".

In their own words, Calvinists preach the Gospel because this is the God-ordained MEANS by which God brings His Elect into the fold. It's just God's nice way of giving other Christians something to do here on earth., while He gets the public glory.

It's a weird way of thinking. The cause and effect are kinda mixed up.

 

[PGS11]

Just because God knows does not mean he picked every soul.Where is the fall of humanity in this which is what this is all about like it or not.God did not cause it it was done to humanity to keep us from God and heaven or do you say that was Gods plan to keep us from him by creating the fall.Predestination does not fit with the theology.
Humanity had heaven and eternal life at the beginning it was taken away from us not by God but by Satan.The goal of the fallen angels is to keep us from heaven and union with God and the battle on earth continues.
The only predestination is humanity was created for heaven and union with God.
If the fall did not happen we would all be in tune with God s will the world would be a very different place a wonderful world with everyone loving and caring for each other.The most important thing if it did not happen is our Lord would not have had to come to save us - you know salvation eternal life that we lost.

 

[Johann]

Just because God knows does not mean he picked every soul.Where is the fall of humanity in this which is what this is all about like it or not.God did not cause it it was done to humanity to keep us from God and heaven or do you say that was Gods plan to keep us from him by creating the fall.Predestination does not fit with the theology.
Humanity had heaven and eternal life at the beginning it was taken away from us not by God but by Satan.The goal of the fallen angels is to keep us from heaven and union with God and the battle on earth continues.

Maybe this will help, that's if you have read the OP.


God’s Foreknowledge vs. God’s Causality
Foreknowledge (Greek: πρόγνωσις, prognōsis) refers to God knowing beforehand, but it does not necessarily mean He causes what He knows. This is distinct from predestination, where God actively chooses or ordains certain events. The Bible teaches that God foreknew the fall, but this doesn’t mean He caused it.

Romans 8:29 (NKJV):
“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son.”
The Greek word for “foreknew” (prognōsko) means that God had prior knowledge of who would choose Him. However, it does not say that God caused every choice. Instead, He knew the outcome of events based on His omniscience.

1 Peter 1:2 (NKJV):
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.”
Again, the foreknowledge of God comes into play, meaning He knew those who would be obedient to Him. God’s knowledge of human choices does not equate to causing them to sin or fall.

2. The Fall of Humanity (Genesis 3)
Genesis 3:1-6 (NKJV):
The fall of humanity was not God's doing but came about through Satan's deception and human disobedience.
“Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field... Then the serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.’”
The Hebrew text emphasizes that Satan (the serpent, nachash) deceived humanity into sin. Humanity had a choice and chose to disobey God, leading to spiritual death. God allowed for free will, and with that, the possibility of rejecting His command. The fall was a result of human action, influenced by Satan, not God's predestined plan.

Genesis 3:17-19 (NKJV):
The curse upon humanity was a direct result of their disobedience:
“Cursed is the ground for your sake; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life.”
Humanity lost paradise and eternal life through the fall. However, God did not take eternal life away as part of a predestined plan; rather, it was the consequence of sin entering the world (Romans 5:12).

3. Satan's Role in the Fall
The fall was instigated by Satan, not God. Satan’s goal was to separate humanity from God, not something God planned or intended for.

John 8:44 (NKJV):
“You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him.”
Satan is referred to as a murderer from the beginning, which directly ties to his deception in the Garden of Eden that led to humanity’s fall and spiritual death. God permitted this act but did not orchestrate it to drive humanity away.

Revelation 12:9 (NKJV):
“So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world.”
Here, Satan is identified as the deceiver of the world. The Greek word used for “deceives” (πλανάω, planaō) means “to lead astray” or “to cause to wander.” It was Satan’s deception that caused humanity to lose eternal life and paradise, not God's predestination.

4. Predestination Does Not Equal Fatalism
Predestination in the Bible is about God’s plan for redemption through Jesus Christ, not about causing the fall or determining who would sin and who wouldn’t. Predestination is focused on God’s plan to restore humanity to Himself after the fall.

Ephesians 1:4-5 (NKJV):
“Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself.”
The Greek word “predestined” (προορίζω, proorizō) means to predetermine a destination. God’s predestination here is focused on the destination of believers—to be adopted as His children through Christ. It is not a decree of who would sin, but rather how God would redeem those who fall.

Romans 8:30 (NKJV):
“Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”
Predestination here relates to God’s plan for salvation—that those who respond to His call would be justified and ultimately glorified. It doesn’t mean that God caused their sin or fall, but that He had a redemptive plan in place for when humanity would fall.

5. Humanity Had Eternal Life but Lost It
Genesis 2:16-17 (NKJV):
“And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.’”
Humanity was created with eternal life, symbolized by the Tree of Life in the Garden. However, by disobeying God and eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they introduced spiritual death (separation from God) and eventually physical death into the world (Romans 5:12).

Revelation 22:14 (NKJV):
“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.”
The promise of eternal life is restored to believers through Christ. The Tree of Life, which humanity lost access to in the fall, is now a part of the final restoration.

6. God’s Redemptive Plan After the Fall
While God didn’t cause the fall, He immediately set into motion a plan of redemption through Christ to restore eternal life.

Genesis 3:15 (NKJV):
“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.”
This is the first promise of the Messiah (the “Seed” of the woman), who would come to destroy Satan’s power and restore humanity to God. It reveals that God's plan is to undo the effects of the fall, not cause it.

John 3:16 (NKJV):
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
The redemptive plan is about God giving humanity a way to recover eternal life through faith in Christ, not through coercion or predetermined destruction.

Our Father is a loving Father and demonstrated His love - in THIS manner--

Joh 3:16 God’s Love for the World
¶ For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge [Or “he should condemn”] the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, [Or “condemned”] but the one who does not believe has already been judged, [Or “been condemned”] because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: that the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who practices evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds be exposed.
Joh 3:21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, in order that his deeds may be revealed, that they are done in God.

J.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The goal of predestination is holiness, not privilege. God's call is not to a selected few of Adam's children, but to all! It is a call to be what God intended mankind to be, like Himself

Great study! It may be true, but I see just a few obstacles about the above premise.
1. Holiness ( being set apart) for an inheritance, special rights, advantages, or immunity granted, available only to a particular person or group.
We think if our salvation, our inheritance, we think benefits, concessions, gifts, liberty, birthright are all privileages.
2. Also, he chose Satan for a purpose as he did all who would do his dirty work: Pharoah, Judas, Cephalon, Nero ... Hitler before they were born. So it seems they never had the opportunity to decide to repent. We're they called or set aside for an evil purpose?
3. The other thing that bumps up against this theory is that it seems He chooses 1/3 remnant. During the GT( which we are nearing) God will chose a remnant of Israel ( 1/3). This number is not a random number that just happens to coincide with man's free will to receive or reject the Jesus. And btw the way, there is about 2.7 billion Christians (1/3 of earth's population). Is that number merely based on God's foreknowledge of how everyone would receive Christ after we were all called? Seems too precise. If man had anything to do with it, the number would not be turn out to be exactly 1/3 saved.
This would certainly imply that it was His decision, not based on anything man did or will do.
This is really entering into an area beyond our ability to perceive, omniscience. Still we wrestle with the question: How could God know what a man decided to do before he was even born??? Unless He designed this person to do His will and therefore assign him good or evil deeds.
Isn't that what sovereignty is, He is in control of all of it.

 

[PGS11]

I have a tendency to speak plainly and direct on the subject and the subject is "He chose us" and yes he did for eternal life what we were created for but because of what has happened we have lost it we now have to chose him because of the separation that was created between Man and God.I believe it was done intentionally but not by God.Why would God condemn his creation?If he has the only logical reason would be to test the souls he has created by giving freewill. I don't believe God intentionally created the separation.I like to put the pure unfiltered truth right in front of people.I don't believe it s all staged and written in store.The course of humanity can be change Jesus did it himself.Its why God sends his prophets to change the path of humanity that he sees whats coming and if we do not listen and change then what has been prophesied will happen.No body is listen and changing so we can pretty well be sure things are going to go as said.Humanity itself has the power to change its course but were just to greedy and selfish to do it.
I don't fit in with my directness and I officially retire.I apologize I was a quality specialist for a major Aerospace company to me it has to be perfect so I have a real factual mind its hard to snap out of it. I am use to presenting the facts so no one can argue with me and believe me they did try and lost every time.I won't budge let things slide or let others fall off track of the facts if the facts are there which is not what people want to hear.Unfortunately it was critical to my Job.To me the paper work has to be in order and encompass all the detail.
I have decide I want to stay away from this forget doctrine and dogma and just practice my faith good old fashion Christianity I once knew when all I need to know was Jesus came and died for our sins his sacrifice that saves me practicing the word he has preached and having faith in him is all I need to know and do..
May everyone here find their path to God I pray and I truly mean that.I pray we can all call each other brother and sister in the presence of God......

 

[GodsGrace]

Great study! It may be true, but I see just a few obstacles about the above premise.
1. Holiness ( being set apart) for an inheritance, special rights, advantages, or immunity granted, available only to a particular person or group.
We think if our salvation, our inheritance, we think benefits, concessions, gifts, liberty, birthright are all privileages.
2. Also, he chose Satan for a purpose as he did all who would do his dirty work: Pharoah, Judas, Cephalon, Nero ... Hitler before they were born. So it seems they never had the opportunity to decide to repent. We're they called or set aside for an evil purpose?
3. The other thing that bumps up against this theory is that it seems He chooses 1/3 remnant. During the GT( which we are nearing) God will chose a remnant of Israel ( 1/3). This number is not a random number that just happens to coincide with man's free will to receive or reject the Jesus. And btw the way, there is about 2.7 billion Christians (1/3 of earth's population). Is that number merely based on God's foreknowledge of how everyone would receive Christ after we were all called? Seems too precise. If man had anything to do with it, the number would not be turn out to be exactly 1/3 saved.
This would certainly imply that it was His decision, not based on anything man did or will do.
This is really entering into an area beyond our ability to perceive, omniscience. Still we wrestle with the question: How could God know what a man decided to do before he was even born??? Unless He designed this person to do His will and therefore assign him good or evil deeds.
Isn't that what sovereignty is, He is in control of all of it.

No Ronald.
This is NOT what sovereignty is.
Sovereignty means the power that God has to rule over humanity as He sees fit,
and how He does this.
God is in control of everything...
nothing happens without God ALLOWING it to happen.
Every Christian believes God is sovereign - not just the reformed.

So what does God being sovereign have anything to do with our salvation?
If man has free will does that make God not be sovereign?
Can God be that weak? (that He fears free will in man).

And why can we not know what omnniscient is?
Doesn't it mean that God KNOWS everything?

Why do you translate this to mean that God PREDESTINATES everything?
No need to wrestle with any question...God has let His desire be known to all men.

God basis His decision as to who to save and who to passover based on something that is revealed in scripture:

1. Come to understand that you're a sinner and in need of God. (for all h ave sinned and fall short)
2. Seek God, as scripture states over and over again. (Seek God while He may be found)
3. Believe in our Lord Jesus for your salvation. (God gave His only Son so that all who believe in Him will be saved)
4. Obey God. (he who believes is saved, he who does not obey the wrath of God abides in him).

Simple and simple to understand.

And you ask HOW God could know who would come to be born again??
Didn't you just say that God is sovereign and omniscient?

Make up your mind??