Were Jesus's brothers born of another woman?

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face2face

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There is no biblical reason to believe that these siblings are anything other than the actual children of Joseph and Mary. Those who oppose the idea that Jesus had half-brothers and half-sisters do so, not from a reading of Scripture, but from a preconceived concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is itself clearly unbiblical: “But he (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus’ (Matthew 1:25). Jesus had half-siblings, half-brothers and half-sisters, who were the children of Joseph and Mary. That is the clear and unambiguous teaching of God’s Word.

@asoul

An honest approach would be to say "I believe in the (whatever)....which is why I force my notions on these Scriptures to prove what I believe"

It was entertaining watching you jump around the text though.

F2F
 

face2face

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Scripture interprets Scripture and not Dogma (or Catechisms) interpret Scripture

If the later you have failed before you even start!

F2F
 
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LuxMundy

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“But he (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus’ (Matthew 1:25).

I addressed that verse back in post #5.

Jesus had half-siblings, half-brothers and half-sisters, who were the children of Joseph and Mary. That is the clear and unambiguous teaching of God’s Word.

That's not true, for the reasons explained in post #4.
 
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face2face

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My own brothers treat me like a stranger; they act as if I were a foreigner. Ps 69:8.

This messianic prophecy found fulfillment in the life of the Lord....what was sad is it did so by implicating Mary who was often on the wrong side of her sons thinking. It wasn't easy for her to hear the rebuke of the Lord!

"My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it. Luke 8:21

She was a wonderful woman and clearly came to a more complete understanding once the sword had thrusted her heart.

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face2face

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“And she brought forth her firstborn son”

Implies that there were other sons born after Jesus. Acts 1:14 refers to “Mary the mother of Jesus,” and “his brethren,” who are mentioned in addition to the disciples.

For those RCC's here have you ever considered why it would be important for Jesus to have siblings? Other than the offenses it caused him?

To answer this you would need to have studied closely the epistle of James.

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RedFan

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That's not true, for the reasons I explained in posts #5;57.
You are mistaken if you think Paul considered James "one of the Twelve apostles." There is nothing in Galatians to support it.
Paul mentions that in Jerusalem he had seen Peter, one of the twelve apostles, but that he didn't see another one of the apostles, except James the Lord’s brother (Gal. 1:18-19).
This tells us that Paul considered James an apostle, not that he considered James one of the Twelve apostles like Peter (who, by the way, is not referenced as one of the Twelve in Gal. 1:18-19). As I've said, Paul regularly referred to others than the Twelve as apostles. He considered himself an apostle as well.
 
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LuxMundy

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My own brothers treat me like a stranger; they act as if I were a foreigner. Ps 69:8.

I addressed that verse in post #5.

“And she brought forth her firstborn son”

The Koine Greek word for "firstborn" in Lk. 2:7 is "πρωτότοκος" (prōtotokos). See below.

Bill Mounce's Greek Dictionary

Forms of the word

πρωτότοκος, ον
Greek transliteration: prōtotokos
Simplified transliteration: prototokos

Numbers
Strong's number:
4416
GK number: 4758

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament:
8
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: a-3a

Gloss: firstborn (human or animal). In biblical culture, the firstborn had higher status and received a greater share of the inheritance. Jesus Christ, as the firstborn of God, is of supreme status and inherits all things

Definition: first-born, Lk. 2:7; Heb. 11:28; in NT prior in generation, Col. 1:15; a firstborn head of a spiritual family, Rom. 8:29; Heb. 1:6; firstborn, as possessed of the peculiar privilege of spiritual generation, Heb. 12:23

The Koine Greek word "πρωτότοκος" (prōtotokos) can also refer to a woman's first and only born son. Secondly, only Jesus is called the Son of Mary. (Matt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3)

"My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it. Luke 8:21

That verse refers to anyone who hears the Word of God and lives it, and thus becomes His "mother" and "brother".

Implies that there were other sons born after Jesus. Acts 1:14 refers to “Mary the mother of Jesus,” and “his brethren,” who are mentioned in addition to the disciples.

I addressed that verse in post #5.
 
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LuxMundy

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This tells us that Paul considered James an apostle, not that he considered James one of the Twelve apostles like Peter (who, by the way, is not referenced as one of the Twelve in Gal. 1:18-19). As I've said, Paul regularly referred to others than the Twelve as apostles. He considered himself an apostle as well.

I'm aware that Paul referred to apostles other than the Twelve at times, but that in and of itself doesn't mean he was in Gal. 1:18-19. In another thread, you've also acknowledged the obvious that the apostle Peter in Gal. 1:18 refers to the same Peter of the twelve apostles (post #229).

Again, in Gal. 1:18-19, Paul mentioned that in Jerusalem he had seen Peter, one of the twelve apostles, but that he didn't see another one of the apostles, except James the Lord’s brother. The title "the Lord's brother" indicates that James was Jesus’s kinsman/relative, and the context of these verses indicates that he was also one of the Twelve. This means that he would have had to have either been apostle James of Zebedee or apostle James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary, yet still a kinsman/relative of Jesus.

If that's not enough for you, refer back to post #4 where there's evidence that shows the apostle James of Alphaeus was Jesus's cousin, who later became the first bishop of Jerusalem, which is why Paul saw him there.
 
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PGS11

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I would ask where we all his brothers and sisters at the crucifixion where Jesus was crucified with his mother alone no mention of them.He asked John to care for her surely if he had brothers and sisters and they were Mary's children he would not of had to do that.It was one of his final acts to make sure his mother was taken care of.Must of had a horrible family.Honor you father and mother Jesus would of taken it very seriously and protected his mother.Let me ask you this Mary knew who Jesus was if you were there with Jesus and knew who he was would you be sinning?You have God right beside you and your sinning and he does nothing I don't buy it.Where all the disciples sneaking away in the middle of the night sinning out of his sight. I believe Jesus was her only child and he protect those he loved that were close to him just like we would..So if Jesus was physically walking with you today would you sin today?
 

ChristinaL

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I would ask where we all his brothers and sisters at the crucifixion where Jesus was crucified with his mother alone no mention of them.He asked John to care for her surely if he had brothers and sisters and they were Mary's children he would not of had to do that.It was one of his final acts to make sure his mother was taken care of.Must of had a horrible family.Honor you father and mother Jesus would of taken it very seriously and protected his mother.Let me ask you this Mary knew who Jesus was if you were there with Jesus and knew who he was would you be sinning?You have God right beside you and your sinning and he does nothing I don't buy it.Where all the disciples sneaking away in the middle of the night sinning out of his sight. I believe Jesus was her only child and he protect those he loved that were close to him just like we would..So if Jesus was physically walking with you today would you sin today?
Jesus Himself didnt even trust His own brothers so you just cant make that assumption. Jesus was not an only child.
 

PGS11

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You also have the Immaculate conception without going into detail it basically means Mary did not have the fallen state.Jesus could not take on flesh in a fallen state so Mary could not be in a fallen state to birth him..He also was never in a fallen state it had to be that way.If its believe Mary was not in a fallen state she was capable of not sinning.Let the argument begin.
 

ChristinaL

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You also have the Immaculate conception without going into detail it basically means Mary did not have the fallen state.Jesus could not take on flesh in a fallen state so Mary could not be in a fallen state to birth him..He also was never in a fallen state it had to be that way.If its believe Mary was not in a fallen state she was capable of not sinning.Let the argument begin.
Umm yeah she could and yes she was born fallen. Jesus did not take on flesh in the fallen state but was born in the LIKENESS of flesh (Rom 8:3. Not because of any imaginary sinlessness of His earth mother. His sinlessness He got from His Father and the Holy Ghost not His mother. You make His sinful creation equal to Him with your blasphemy. Or have you forgotten what the bible says, ALL have sinned........where does it say All have sinned except Mary?

Mary was under the Law......and what was the Law made for?

1 Timothy 1:9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Mary sinned


As an ordinary part of the human race, born into the world the ordinary way, Mary was not without sin. Romans 3:23 teaches that all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory, and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Mary was an exception to this rule. The apostle John wrote, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us” (1 John 1:8–10). The “we” in this passage includes Mary, the mother of Jesus. To claim Mary is without sin is an example of “deceit.”

Rather than teach that Mary was sinless, the Bible gives evidence that she was a normal person with a normal person’s need of salvation. In Mary’s praise-filled, humble prayer in Luke 1, she says, “My spirit rejoices in God my Savior” (verse 47). If she were sinless, she would not have needed a “Savior.” Mary receives a gentle rebuke from Jesus in John 2:4, which hardly seems fitting if she were sinless.

Mary sinned at the Wedding at Cana because she wanted glory through her glorious Son

Mary needed a Saviour - no sinless person needs a saviour. Now I will head you off here because I know you will come at me with the foolishness that her cleansing was retroactive from the moment of her conception. Utter unbiblical GARBAGE
 
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LuxMundy

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Jesus Himself didnt even trust His own brothers so you just cant make that assumption. Jesus was not an only child.

There's no verse in Scripture that says Jesus didn't trust His brothers. And, the evidence in post #4 shows that those believed to be Jesus's half-siblings were actually His cousins.
 
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ChristinaL

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There's no verse in Scripture that says Jesus didn't trust His brothers. And, the evidence in post #4 shows that those believed to be Jesus's half-siblings were actually His cousins.
John 7:5....Really means the same thing. that is why Jesus entrusted Mary to John when otherwise He would have chosen His brothers. Jesus didnt trust a lot of people
 

ChristinaL

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There's no verse in Scripture that says Jesus didn't trust His brothers. And, the evidence in post #4 shows that those believed to be Jesus's half-siblings were actually His cousins.
And your post #4 doesnt say squat....WHY is it that so many people have a problem with Mary having other children? Its typical of people like you who use a Strongs Concordance and then suddenly you think you are experts in the Hebrew/Greek language as well as interpretation and context
 
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face2face

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Speculation. ‘Had to’ is also speculative.

Seems to me, it was more a way to honor John as his trusted brother.
Also, the Lord knew John was well established (properties) and capable of providing for her, whereas the Lord's family was known to be poor.
 

face2face

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I addressed that verse in post #5.



The Koine Greek word for "firstborn" in Lk. 2:7 is "πρωτότοκος" (prōtotokos). See below.



Firstly, there's nothing that says "πρωτότοκος" (prōtotokos) can't refer to a woman's first and only son. Secondly, only Jesus is called the Son of Mary. (Matt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3)



That verse refers to anyone who hears the Word of God and lives it, and thus becomes His "mother" and "brother".



I addressed that verse in post #5.
Out of interest asoul, if you were told of the Lord face to face ( Chkl:) that he had half brothers and sisters what would that do to your faith?

Would anything change for you, denomination? would you experience some form of spiritual trauma? And would it prompt you to relook at everything you believe?

And please be clear, you will believe these lies till your last breathe but I'm interested in your answer as to what you would do.

F2F
 

Taken

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Jesus did have blood brothers.

Disagree.

The children of Mary and Joseph were biological children, meaning from Joseph’s seed and Mary’s egg.

Jesus was neither of Joseph’s sperm or Mary’s egg, not of their copulation or blood.

Jesus was mans (Roman law) Legal son…
And Gods “declaration’….Son of Man…
And God “declaration……Son of God…
Mary and Joseph’s biological children were Jesus’ Legal siblings, same as Joseph and Mary were Jesus’ Legal parents.

Jesus was “blood” related to NO human.

Glory to God,
Taken