Obeying Governing Authorities - Hoping to join a Heavenly Country.

[MatthewG]

Listen, I get it.

For those growing up from the 60's, and 50's. Man those days were glorious and so much better, but time continues to move forward... many people are mad at the government for letting people be trans, or perhaps they are mad cause this policy and that policy. Maybe they would like to instate something new... there are meet up places with the local governing authorities were you can air out your grievance. You should realize though.

This place is not your home. It's only a temporary place to live your life through, bad and good.

Does doing any of these effect your faith or relationship with Yahavah? I don't know you have to ask yourself those questions...

While many believe this world is gonna be renewed... and Jesus ruling, well Jesus is suppose to be ruling your heart now today right? Renewed from the old mindset to the new things of Christ... why do you look so much at this world you so desperately desire to change... or want to change...

Is that because of personal bias? If you are your own president. I am sure there are some that would segerate a whole section of people and try to force them off this country's land.

It's really sick and twisted...

Romans 13​

​

New International Version​

​

​

Submission to Governing Authorities​

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Read this verse here:

Hebrews 11

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.


That country is not here on earth... It's a heavenly country.

 

[MatthewG]

America is a beautiful country.

Many people say it's a ugly place.

I don't know why, perhaps it's because human beings make messes.

 

[MatthewG]

Many people are so mad at the government! Idk why. I thought they were there for a good reason at least in retrospect.

 

[Keiw]

Listen, I get it.

For those growing up from the 60's, and 50's. Man those days were glorious and so much better, but time continues to move forward... many people are mad at the government for letting people be trans, or perhaps they are mad cause this policy and that policy. Maybe they would like to instate something new... there are meet up places with the local governing authorities were you can air out your grievance. You should realize though.

This place is not your home. It's only a temporary place to live your life through, bad and good.

Does doing any of these effect your faith or relationship with Yahavah? I don't know you have to ask yourself those questions...

While many believe this world is gonna be renewed... and Jesus ruling, well Jesus is suppose to be ruling your heart now today right? Renewed from the old mindset to the new things of Christ... why do you look so much at this world you so desperately desire to change... or want to change...

Is that because of personal bias? If you are your own president. I am sure there are some that would segerate a whole section of people and try to force them off this country's land.

It's really sick and twisted...



Read this verse here:

Hebrews 11

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.


That country is not here on earth... It's a heavenly country.

The bible teaches-Pay ones taxes, and do not break the laws( if not in opposition to Gods laws) and be respectful to them. -- other than that the bible shows-Every govt on earth is standing in opposition to Jesus. They do do good things, but there is alot of corruption, Many have removed church from state(govt)-perse--that means satan moved in. In Jesus day in the wilderness, satan offered to Jesus every kingdom( govt, armies, supporters) on earth- because he controls them. Thus like you said-promoting trans, homosexuality and things like that, that oppose Gods king and Gods will.
Jesus said to be no part of this world, one would NEVER risk casting a vote for corruption.

 

[MatthewG]

Love paying taxes. And people can vote for whoever. It's Jesus who has set forth the administration for Gods will, in all people being able to call out and reach Yahavah, if they so seek for him in faith.

 

[doctrox]

The bible teaches-Pay ones taxes...

It does not.

...and do not break the laws( if not in opposition to Gods laws)...

It does not.

...the bible shows-Every govt on earth is standing in opposition to Jesus...satan offered to Jesus every kingdom( govt, armies, supporters) on earth- because he controls them.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Jesus said to be no part of this world, one would NEVER risk casting a vote for corruption.

Voting put Christ on the cross. Voting is very unscriptural.

 

[Keiw]

It does not.


It does not.


Now we're getting somewhere.


Voting put Christ on the cross. Voting is very unscriptural.

Jesus taught--( Luke 20:25)Pay Caesers things to Caeser( taxes) and Gods things to God.

 

[MatthewG]

Thanks keiw. I read that in Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

Satan doesn’t control jack crap!

He is also done away with… Satan was represented as Israel opposed to the Son of God and they decided to get rid of him.

Many people just believe the government is evils and out to get them… bro I don’t think that’s always the case as it is someone who just happens to make horrible decisions in going against them and not doing what they are supposed to in order to avoid such troubles…

Who is responsible for themselves? Isn’t it every person is responsible for themselves?

If Jesus said for us to pay taxes… then why not listen to what he said? If Paul even when Nero was in power concluded to obey and even pray for government why not do it?

Now if the government is trying to get me to renounce my faith here in America which is impossible. That would be a different thing, but it’s not like that. I don’t think it will ever get like that… until the day I’m wrong; I wouldn’t have to prepare….

I’d know.

 

[doctrox]

Jesus taught--( Luke 20:25)Pay Caesers things to Caeser( taxes) and Gods things to God.

Rather,
And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

Your version of 'Jesus paid taxes' is a popular lie taught throughout evangelical Christianity. Religion has always been the tool of choice of tyrants to control the sheeple.

If Jesus said for us to pay taxes… If Paul...

I understand why you react the way you do. In fact, the vast majority reading this would react the same way. Why? Because misery loves company; they, like you, react out of worldly fear of the perceived consequences. People are ignorant of what the Holy Bible actually teaches on the "iffy" subject, instead relying on the commandments of men. It's herd mentality rather than seeking God's Spirit and taking on the mind of Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

There are many people who believe everything should just be free.

Those people are mental, in my opinion.

Jesus life wasn’t free. He gave it up at a cost of his own life…

Silly people think you should just fight the government are incorrect. You can literally go suggest for new implementation to add or to remove at your local government office… concerning laws or regulations etc.

God said to Adam.
Paraphrasing;
“You shall till the ground and sweat by the brow all your days of life.”

Paraphrasing;
Jesus said “Yes, pay taxes, go find a fish with coin in its mouth and it will do.”

 

[MatthewG]

While we get to enjoy life here: we should pray for all peoples.

That’s what was suggested to Timothy from Paul; do you think as followers of Jesus we should too?

“First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭ESV‬‬

1 Timothy 2:2-6 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires | English Standard Version 2016 (

for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires

bible.com

 

[MatthewG]

Im so thankful for Governing authorities.

I dont know why so many people complain about it.

Throw a little extra into federal, and state, get you a good income tax next year, and an even better on the next!

Don't squander it by spending it on useless things. You do what you need to.

If it be the Lord's will, we shall do this and shall do that.

 

[Jack]

Im so thankful for Governing authorities.

You mean politicians who STEAL trillions of our hard earned tax dollars?

 

[MatthewG]

Forgot to bring up the context of Romans 13, where Paul was living in Neros day.

In their day they bore swords, today we bare guns.

We have prison for the bad guys, when they get caught, and there are good guys that desire to their work as though they are working for the LORD.

 

[Jack]

Does doing any of these effect your faith or relationship with Yahavah?

What's a Yahavah? I can't find that in any Bible. I've searched over 30 English Bibles. No Yahavah!

 

[doctrox]

Paraphrasing;
Jesus said “Yes, pay taxes, go find a fish with coin in its mouth and it will do.”

No, that's not what Jesus said.

In fact, Jesus himself was accused of forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar at his trial (Luke 23:2). Notice these were not false witnesses who accused Jesus of not paying taxes, because every time a false witness accused Jesus, the scripture tells us it was a false witness (Mark 14:57-59). Where did Jesus forbid to pay taxes to Caesar?

In Mark 12:13-17, Jesus was asked if it was lawful to give taxes to Caesar or not. A silver coin, with Caesar's inscription on it, was shown to Christ. In this example, the Lord's answer requires everyone to make the determination as to what belongs to Caesar and what belongs to God;

Mark 12:17"...Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's..."

Who did this silver coin belong to? Since the Scripture says, "The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts" (Haggai 2:8), that means that the silver coin shown to Jesus belonged to God. However, those who live, move, and have their being in the image of Caesar, as the disciples of the Pharisees did, will believe this coin belongs to Caesar instead. We are not to be deluded by the image of Caesar, but built-up in the image of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 11:7; 15:49, 2 Corinthians 3:18, Colossians 3:10).

Others cry, “What about Matthew 17:24-27?”:

And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Let's break this passage down.

Verse 24: The tax collector asked Simon Peter if Jesus paid taxes.
Verse 25: Peter said, "yes". But "Jesus prevented" Peter from paying the tax. Why did Jesus prevent Peter from paying taxes?
Verse 26: Jesus said "Then are the children free" from paying taxes. This is why, because we are now free. But we must not use our liberty as a cloak of maliciousness.
Verse 27: However, to avoid "offending" this tax collector (since, as was the habit of Peter, he opened his mouth too soon without really thinking and obligated Jesus by his statement that Jesus did pay taxes), Jesus told Peter to cast a hook into the sea, and catch a fish, and take out money from its mouth and pay it.

Even though Jesus provided a coin to Simon for this tax, it was to avoid "offending" the collector, and because Peter rashly agreed to pay it, not because we are bound to pay taxes by Law. Jesus made the point to stress that the children are free from taxes. But notice, Simon Peter and Jesus did not give him any of their own money, but that which came from the fish! It is interesting to note that Peter was a commercial fisherman (a fisher of fish) before being called to be an apostle of Christ (a fisher of men), and when Peter opened his mouth before thinking (as he often did), Christ basically chastised him by having Peter return to his old life to pay his debt! He had to be a fisher of fish to catch that fish with the coin in its mouth. Thus, the lesson for us is: When you join yourself to the world, and make obligations to the world, you must become part of the world again to meet those obligations.

Additionally, Jesus could not have fulfilled prophecy if he was to go to prison, which might have happened if he didn't pay that tax after Peter "volunteered" for him. It was not his time to go to prison yet. Likewise, Jesus could have called twelve legions of angels to his rescue, but because the scriptures would not have been fulfilled if he did, he refrained from doing that act (Matthew 26:53-54). Jesus taught that we are free from paying taxes if we are children of the king (Matthew 17:24-26), meaning the children of King Jesus (Acts 17:7, 1 Timothy 1:17).

Now, for clarification, if a government is acting strictly as a minister of God, then it is lawful to pay taxes to that government (Romans 13:6), because that "silver coin" which belongs to God also belongs to God's ministers, as they are acting in his name and doing his will. However, if a government is not a minister of God, then there is no duty to give taxes to it.

So now we know that Jesus did not ‘pay taxes.’ Rather, Jesus cleverly provided a coin to Simon Peter with which to satisfy Simon’s foolishly incurred legal obligation and thus teach him (and us) a lesson.

 

[MatthewG]

Too, much to read. I’ll continue to pay taxes but I won’t tithe to no church. I disagree @doctrox. You do what you need too.

And since we disagree with one another that’s the end of the conversation if you are gonna suggest again with another reply.

I have no more replies to give if you do.

 

[MatthewG]

Many people hate or wish they could control the government.

They whine and complain. They want it their way.

It’s totally understandable you’re looking for freedom, but freedom and liberty is only founded where the spirit of the Lord is…

We have freedom concerning our rights as citizens in America you also have restrictions and penalties if you’re not careful.

True freedom is founded in seeking God, and finding the truth which sets one free!

Have you found that yet?

 

[doctrox]

Too, much to read...

It's a short post, but hey I understand re: myopic attention spans and sound byte memories. Point: you're not able to rebut it.
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

I’ll continue to pay taxes

No man can serve two masters.

I disagree @doctrox. You do what you need to do.

It's what we all need to do i.e. read the Word and obey it.

And since we disagree with one another that’s the end of the conversation if you are gonna suggest again with another reply.

I have no more replies to give if you do.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

For the benefit of others who are reading this thread (300+ views), we will continue to further clarify the truth of the matter.

Obviously, the majority have not grasped the reason why we are given this scenario by God.

A better question for us to consider might be something like this: Why in the world did Jesus have Simon Peter (and the tax men) go through such a convoluted action to perform what would normally be a simple task of paying a tax? Why not simply reach into a pocket and pay the tax??? Why the fish???

Recall that All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16). So what is the purpose behind this particular scriptural episode? Why was it given to us in this format? What lesson is in it for us?

Question - Why was the money owed, particularly when Jesus said the children of God are free???

Answer: Simon Peter spoke presumptuously, as he often did, throughout scripture. That is why Jesus prevented him from paying, took him aside, and gave him a loving rebuke, telling him that the children of God are not obligated to pay the tax.

Simon Peter (the one who spoke presumptuously) was REBUKED and thus was the one tasked with paying the money – not Jesus – because Simon Peter is the one who obliged himself to pay. Jesus sent Simon Peter to do it PRECISELY because it was Simon Peter who, with his presumptuous mouth, erroneously obligated himself (and Jesus) to the tax in the first instance. Because a contract was entered into when Simon Peter answered in the affirmative, Jesus and Simon Peter would now risk an OFFENSE if they did not follow through with what Simon Peter had agreed to do. So off to Simon Peter’s former commercial world he was sent, as a fisher-man, to do his commercial fisher thing and fulfill his foolishly incurred obligation to the taxmen of the world. Simon Peter had a big mouth, and it literally cost him this time.

Here’s a fun scenario. Imagine for a moment, that after Jesus PREVENTED Simon Peter from paying, because THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE FREE from taxation, Simon Peter returns to the tax collectors and says, “Hey, guys, sorry, but I goofed! Jesus and I don’t really pay taxes after all.” Recall that Jesus and Simon Peter were strangers sojourning through that city, preaching the truth. What do you think the people there would have thought of ANY thing that Jesus or Simon Peter would have done or preached after Simon Peter had previously agreed to pay but then later refused? Some might think, “They did not keep their word then to pay the tax after Simon Peter said he would, so why should we trust them now about any other thing?” Obviously, with their credibility thus compromised, any subsequent witness that Jesus and/or Simon Peter would give in that city would be a major fail! BTW, did you know that the Greek word for “offend” is skandalizo, from which we get the English word scandal? ala ‘...lest we should scandalize them...’ Obviously, Jesus thought that keeping one's word was more important than being right.