Populist Viewpoint vs Verified Facts

[JohnDB]

Thinking caps are going to be required for this discussion.

What popular opinions are different from verified facts?

Let's give an example:

Many people have an opinion that Jesus was a carpenter. However archeology and history both prove that a construction worker in the places that Jesus's family lived worked in clay and stone. Basically masonry work.

But the belief of Jesus being a carpenter by trade has given rise to all sorts of meme bumper stickers and ideology.

Once upon a time people believed that the Earth was flat. That people could sail ships or fly off the edge. Today.... other than a few people creating an argument for aguing's sake doomed for failure the notion is ridiculous.

Ulcers are caused by high stress.
When finally examined closely it was discovered that ulcers were the result of a bacterial infection. Not stressful situations. And a new antibiotic was produced to remedy the infection.

Now where this comes into play....which set of fact is more important?

 

[Bob]

Eve shared an apple with Adam.

Jonah was swallowed by a whale.

Money is the root of all evil.

Gentle Jesus never had a harsh word for anyone.

Masks, vaccines, and closing churches will stop the pandemic.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thinking caps are going to be required for this discussion.

What popular opinions are different from verified facts?

Let's give an example:

Many people have an opinion that Jesus was a carpenter. However archeology and history both prove that a construction worker in the places that Jesus's family lived worked in clay and stone. Basically masonry work.

But the belief of Jesus being a carpenter by trade has given rise to all sorts of meme bumper stickers and ideology.

Once upon a time people believed that the Earth was flat. That people could sail ships or fly off the edge. Today.... other than a few people creating an argument for aguing's sake doomed for failure the notion is ridiculous.

Ulcers are caused by high stress.
When finally examined closely it was discovered that ulcers were the result of a bacterial infection. Not stressful situations. And a new antibiotic was produced to remedy the infection.

Now where this comes into play....which set of fact is more important?

Which set of fact is more important?
The one about ulcers.
The other two create no change in reality.

God helps those that help themselves.
An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Chocolate causes pimples!!!

LOL


11:15 pm
that's it for me!

 

[JohnDB]

Eve shared an apple with Adam.

Jonah was swallowed by a whale.

Money is the root of all evil.

Gentle Jesus never had a harsh word for anyone.

Masks, vaccines, and closing churches will stop the pandemic.

Well all but the last one I'll agree with.
Stop is relative....it never will stop completely. We are still having the original influenza from WW1 break out in locations.

So popular opinion is a bust....that's the focus of this thread.

These may be popularly believed....but not true. Just like your last statement. The truth is always heavily nuanced. And trying to cover EVERY NUANCE is impossible.

However, the new AIs out there rely upon internet data collected from public opinion.

That's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well all but the last one I'll agree with.
Stop is relative....it never will stop completely. We are still having the original influenza from WW1 break out in locations.

So popular opinion is a bust....that's the focus of this thread.

These may be popularly believed....but not true. Just like your last statement. The truth is always heavily nuanced. And trying to cover EVERY NUANCE is impossible.

However, the new AIs out there rely upon internet data collected from public opinion.

That's a disaster waiting to happen.

Agreed 100%
AI, eventually, will eliminate TRUTH.
And young persons will not know how to find the truth at some point in time.
Yes, I'll repeat:
It's a disaster waiting to happen.

(and other problems we won't get into here).

 

[JohnDB]

Agreed 100%
AI, eventually, will eliminate TRUTH.
And young persons will not know how to find the truth at some point in time.
Yes, I'll repeat:
It's a disaster waiting to happen.

(and other problems we won't get into here).

Gen z is definitely a disaster waiting to happen.

We had boomers who are all retired and been retired. The youngest is what 64 now?

Then comes the Gen X crowd. All had two parent incomes and left to their own devices way too much and parents who were former hippies so what little interaction they had was not exactly the good kind.

Then came millenials....parented by Gen X it wasn't exactly a positive start to begin with. Too many ADHD drugs as a child and zero parenting skilled parents or helicopter parents fascinated with diaper changing.

Now Gen Z.
They will have it the roughest. They will fail miserably by a world that simply doesn't function and no ticTok video on how to make it work again. They will know every form of sexual perversion complete with charts and graphs.

 

[GodsGrace]

Gen z is definitely a disaster waiting to happen.

We had boomers who are all retired and been retired. The youngest is what 64 now?

Then comes the Gen X crowd. All had two parent incomes and left to their own devices way too much and parents who were former hippies so what little interaction they had was not exactly the good kind.

Then came millenials....parented by Gen X it wasn't exactly a positive start to begin with. Too many ADHD drugs as a child and zero parenting skilled parents or helicopter parents fascinated with diaper changing.

Now Gen Z.
They will have it the roughest. They will fail miserably by a world that simply doesn't function and no ticTok video on how to make it work again. They will know every form of sexual perversion complete with charts and graphs.

And, you've just explained how we got to where we are.
The out of the norm folk had to explain why they were out of the norm.
NOW the normal folk have to explain why it's OK to be normal.
Complete turn-around.

The most disconcerting part is what you wrote above about the Millenials.
These parents agree with all the strangeness that is happening....and I'm particularly upset about the trans beliefs and how they're being
taught to the very young.

Like I say....the river is coming down and nothing can stop it.
No going back.....if we could just at least stop here, but it's going to get worse.

And on that happy note....
Going to go visit a cousin near Pisa either today or tomorrow.
She's a little handicapped and I haven't seen her in a while.
Too hot down there though...

 

[lforrest]

Agreed 100%
AI, eventually, will eliminate TRUTH.
And young persons will not know how to find the truth at some point in time.
Yes, I'll repeat:
It's a disaster waiting to happen.

(and other problems we won't get into here).

What about Elon musk's idea to make a truth seeking AI?

 

[GodsGrace]

What about Elon musk's idea to make a truth seeking AI?

He said AI cannot provide truth.
He has an AGI program named Grok.
It can only accumulate general information.
I watched a good interview with him on Lex Fridman, on YouTube. I believe it was no. 4.....he's had several with Fridman.

Chatgbt4 is already causing problems with students. For now it's still recognizable,,,but if it gets better??

And will today's generation be willing to dig for information, or will they be too lazy and depend on AI??

 

[Bob Estey]

Thinking caps are going to be required for this discussion.

What popular opinions are different from verified facts?

Let's give an example:

Many people have an opinion that Jesus was a carpenter. However archeology and history both prove that a construction worker in the places that Jesus's family lived worked in clay and stone. Basically masonry work.

But the belief of Jesus being a carpenter by trade has given rise to all sorts of meme bumper stickers and ideology.

Once upon a time people believed that the Earth was flat. That people could sail ships or fly off the edge. Today.... other than a few people creating an argument for aguing's sake doomed for failure the notion is ridiculous.

Ulcers are caused by high stress.
When finally examined closely it was discovered that ulcers were the result of a bacterial infection. Not stressful situations. And a new antibiotic was produced to remedy the infection.

Now where this comes into play....which set of fact is more important?

Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55 tell me Jesus was a carpenter. The Bible doesn't lie. Both these books were written shortly after Jesus died.

 

[JohnDB]

Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55 tell me Jesus was a carpenter. The Bible doesn't lie. Both these books were written shortly after Jesus died.

When the Bible was first translated into English the Latin word Tekkon was translated as carpenter because it was general construction labor in that neighborhood. Stone masonry was a high skill trade.

However the construction projects by Rome around Nazareth in Sepphoris was actually mud/clay/concrete and stone work. No lumber used. So the truth is that Jesus worked in stone, rock, and mud/clay, and cement. Not lumber as in carpentry. And that would be general construction laborer in the very different Topography of that neighborhood.

 

[GodsGrace]

Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55 tell me Jesus was a carpenter. The Bible doesn't lie. Both these books were written shortly after Jesus died.

It's not a question of the Bible lying.
It's a matter of language.
Another example would be the word "hell".
This word, as we understand it, appears only one time in a letter of Peter, and yet it's used several times.

 

[MatthewG]

When it comes to the bible, in spite of the facts, it's gonna take faith to believe that Yahavah, the God of Israel even exists in the first place.

Whether or not Jesus worked with wood or not is irrelevant.

tektón: a craftsman, spec. a carpenter
Original Word: τέκτων, ονος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: tektón
Phonetic Spelling: (tek'-tone)
Definition: a craftsman, a carpenter
Usage: a carpenter, an artisan.

He was a creator. As the Word of God, when Yahavah had spoke his Word - he created. He was an artist even through his own life.

 

[Bob Estey]

When the Bible was first translated into English the Latin word Tekkon was translated as carpenter because it was general construction labor in that neighborhood. Stone masonry was a high skill trade.

However the construction projects by Rome around Nazareth in Sepphoris was actually mud/clay/concrete and stone work. No lumber used. So the truth is that Jesus worked in stone, rock, and mud/clay, and cement. Not lumber as in carpentry. And that would be general construction laborer in the very different Topography of that neighborhood.

The Bible doesn't lie.

 

[Bob Estey]

It's not a question of the Bible lying.
It's a matter of language.
Another example would be the word "hell".
This word, as we understand it, appears only one time in a letter of Peter, and yet it's used several times.

The Bible doesn't lie.

 

[MatthewG]

@JohnDB

Where did boats come from then... lol. Or ports for docks. All that was stone too? Surely some wood was probably taken in, from another location even. Just like we order from places on the internet and it gets sent to the house. Maybe Nazereth was far away from any rivers, I cant remember the geography. He most certainly was an artist, for sure, one of a kind born of flesh and the spirit.

 

[MatthewG]

It's not a question of the Bible lying.
It's a matter of language.
Another example would be the word "hell".
This word, as we understand it, appears only one time in a letter of Peter, and yet it's used several times.

Sometimes, we even have to just fill in the information ourselves with what we may think maybe with use of other scriptures, (hopefully by the spirit of Yahavah.) or just leave it as it is because we do not know. Thank you for that reminder GG.

 

[JohnDB]

When it comes to the bible, in spite of the facts, it's gonna take faith to believe that Yahavah, the God of Israel even exists in the first place.

Whether or not Jesus worked with wood or not is irrelevant.

tektón: a craftsman, spec. a carpenter
Original Word: τέκτων, ονος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: tektón
Phonetic Spelling: (tek'-tone)
Definition: a craftsman, a carpenter
Usage: a carpenter, an artisan.

He was a creator. As the Word of God, when Yahavah had spoke his Word - he created. He was an artist even through his own life.

I keep forgetting the second "t"....

But what resource are you using?
Not all resources sold or given away for free are viable. Especially ones that are retail focused, denomination focused and not scholar focused.
There is literally a complete library of research on Sepphoris because it was where Jesus went to work every day. People have been searching every stone carefully for the worker's marks they used to prove their production for their pay. Because if Jesus marked one with his name....God cut that rock and it is holy.
Here's the Wikipedia article.

Sepphoris - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[MatthewG]

I keep forgetting the second "t"....

But what resource are you using?
Not all resources sold or given away for free are viable. Especially ones that are retail focused, denomination focused and not scholar focused.
There is literally a complete library of research on Sepphoris because it was where Jesus went to work every day. People have been searching every stone carefully for the worker's marks they used to prove their production for their pay. Because if Jesus marked one with his name....God cut that rock and it is holy.
Here's the Wikipedia article.

Sepphoris - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

John, I read in a book called "Sabertooth Man" - a person said "If Jesus was real, then why isn't there a table still around standing."

Human beings are unreliable, to some extent, no doubt.

 

[JohnDB]

@JohnDB

Where did boats come from then... lol. Or ports for docks. All that was stone too? Surely some wood was probably taken in, from another location even. Just like we order from places on the internet and it gets sent to the house. Maybe Nazereth was far away from any rivers, I cant remember the geography. He most certainly was an artist, for sure, one of a kind born of flesh and the spirit.

Tyre had the port. And yes, they too were built out of stone. Ephasus was also a port city until the harbor filled with silt.

The people of that day used a combination of natural features that they enhanced with stone to create docks for the ships. Tyre's port though washed into the ocean. Over half of the city sank into the sea. But fragments of the stone used are still covering the shore. (There was a lot of it)

Archeology in a seizmically active area is difficult because much got damaged over the centuries.