Where in Revelation 20 does it teach that Jesus will rule on the earth from Mt. Zion in Jerusalem? It sounds like you're making it up as you go.
The absurdity of Pretrib logic
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More duplicity from a Premillennialist! It is the same with the mark of the beast. Premillennialists insist that it has to be literal for the beast but are quick to insist that the mark of the Father on God's servants is spiritual. Your hermeneutics are messed up and crumble at every turn.
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Genesis 6 doesn’t have anything to do with Genesis 3:15. That’s why I asked for you to elaborate.
Spiritual Israelite
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Did you not read the first 3 posts of this thread? If you want clarification, then read those. What a joke for anyone to try to claim that he doesn't clarify what he believes. Grow up.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Look at his reasoning. It makes no sense. It reveals his doctrinal bias. He says the thousand years has to be literal because it expires and then says the "one hour" doesn't have to be literal and it represents the 42 months. Well, the 42 months expires, so why does he not use the same logic to conclude that the "one hour" is literal as well since it expires? LOL. The bias and inconsistency in his approach is very obvious.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Your beliefs are a crock. Your arguments are extremely weak and unconvincing. Jesus will return when the last enemy, death, is defeated.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Death will be destroyed when Jesus comes. All you need to do is continue reading in 1 Corinthians 15 to get confirmation of when the last enemy, death, will be destroyed and defeated.
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
There it is. Death will be destroyed and "swallowed up in victory" at the last trumpet when Jesus returns. The last trumpet is the same as the seventh trumpet and it says at the seventh trumpet it will be "the time of the dead, that they should be judged" (Rev 11:15-18). That is when death will be cast into the lake of fire:
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
In Revelation 13, the ten kings have their ten crowns to rule with the beast 42 months.
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You're not addressing my point about your contradictory logic. Again, you are arguing that the thousand years has to be literal because it will expire. Right? Yet, you say the "one hour" in Rev 17:12 "represents the 42 months of the beast-king's rule". Do you think that the one hour/42 months never expires? I'm pretty sure you don't think that, so why do you not use the same logic that leads you to believe that the thousand years is literal to the "one hour" as well?
Please address what I said here instead of avoiding it. Does the one hour/42 months expire? Yes or no? If it does then why do you not use the same logic in relation to the "one hour" that you use in relation to the "thousand years" when determining if it's literal or not?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Revelation 13:1, the ten kings have their crowns to rule with the beast-king, who in Revelation 14:5 continues 42 months.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL!!! Please answer the question. Do you believe that the one hour/42 months expires or not? Yes or no?
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
We all make mistakes.
The book of Revelation uses symbols to convey its messages, often drawing on imagery from other Biblical prophesies. It's important to remember that these messages are not just symbols, but truths that we can confidently interpret.
Revelation 20:2-3 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
The terms "dragon" and "serpent" are symbolic, representing the being known as "the devil" and "Satan", who will be bound — literally — so he can no longer deceive the nations.
The binding of Satan renders him unable to deceive anyone. Since he is still able to deceive; he has not yet been bound.
CadyandZoe
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Douggg, who do you think you're kidding here? Did I ask you to give evidence to support your belief that the one hour and 42 months represent the same time period? No, I did not. And you know it.
I am asking you if the "one hour" of Revelation 17:12, which you believe symbolically represents the 42 months of Rev 13:5, expires? Yes or no?
You then think when the last trumpet sounds, that in that same split second the great white throne judgment begins and concludes? Why not let context guide you here instead? Death obviously still exists after the last trumpet sounds, the fact there are lost people still alive after the last trumpet sounds. And until all of them are dead first and that they then rise from the dead, there can't be the great white throne judgment in the meantime.
So, IOW, what you are apparently trying to apply universally about death being swallowed up in victory is not being applied universally at all, it is only being applied to those that have gotten victory through Christ. Nothing, as in zero, pertaining to 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 is being applied to any of the lost, especially this---Death is swallowed up in victory, and one reason why is this-- But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ(verse 57) . No one could possibly think verse 57 also applies to the lost that get cast into the LOF, right?
Quit saying that there is no more death once the last trumpet sounds, since that is being dishonest with the text, the fact the last trumpet obviously sounds before all the lost back on earth are even dead first, and until they are dead first, there can't be the great white throne judgment in the meantime, which means death still exists after the last trumpet sounds. Maybe not for the saved does death still exist at that point, but for the lost it certainly still exists after the last trumpet has sounded.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Douggg, you are incredibly dishonest. Don't change the subject. You won't even answer a simple question because you know that you were caught in a contradiction and are too prideful to admit it. You indicated that the thousand years has to be literal because it expires. You then said the one hour is symbolic and represents the 42 months of Rev 13:5.
So, using the same logic that you use to determine that the thousand years is literal would mean the "one hour" would have to be literal as well if it expires. So, does it expire or not? Why won't you answer that simple and straightforward question? Your lack of willingness to answer it says it all. You know that the one hour expires since you know that the 42 months that you believe it symbolically represents expires, but you can't admit that this means the logic you use to determine that the thousand years is literal is flawed since you don't even apply that same logic to the "one hour" of Revelation 17:12.
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