Satan Demons Angels and Spiritual Warfare

[MA2444]

God is only withholding total destruction, until the last of His elect are converted and added to the Body of Christ. Destruction is guranteed, and it has nothing to do with Satan or His Demons, it's because of sinful man. Man doesn't need any help from Satan to be wicked, he is already born wicked and everything he does in life is evil continuously.

So Jesus put down all the demons then? There are no demons, no possessions, no oppression by evil spirits? Just mans own wickedness?

Well let's stay in the NT so it is after Jesus and see what He tells us about our enemy.

What about this?:

Ephesians 6:12
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.../KJV

So why do you suppose it says we wrestle with the rulers of the darkness? Is that not evil spirits somehow? This teaching in scripture was written after Jesus was gone back to heaven. Spiritual wickedness. That's evil spirits and demons friend.

There's more too. Need more scripture?

 

[face2face]

Haven't you ever read the book of Genesis, where God warns His people about Satan and His deadly deception/poison.

Please show me from Genesis your fallen angel lol...this will be good!

 

[face2face]

‘It is worth pausing to consider the Old Testament view of “Satan.” Contrary to popular thinking, for the ancient Israelites this figure was not the personification of evil, the archnemesis of God—this view developed in later Judaism and Christianity. Rather, “satan” in the Old Testament describes a character (human or divine) who functions as an adversary or opponent, or even a prosecutor in legal contexts (cf. 1 Sam. 29:4 [David]; 2 Sam. 19:22 [Abishai]; 1 Kings 5:4; Ps. 109:4). Even in the book of Job, the “satan” is not evilbut is associated with the group of divine beings called the “sons of God” whose duty it is to serve the Lord (Job 1:6; 2:1; see NIV notes). The “satan” in Job is a sort of divine prosecutor whose task is to ferret out hypocrisy.’, Wolf (rev. Holmstedt), ‘1-2 Samuel’, in Burge & Hill (eds.), ‘The Baker Illustrated Bible Commentary’, pp. 311-312 (2012)

@Aunty Jane
@Christian Soldier

 

[face2face]

Ephesians 6:12
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.../KJV

What is the context?
Who is Paul referring to?
Think, look, search some more before typing!
F2F

 

[Christian Soldier]

True, but the spiritual principalities in high places do exert a lot of influence on humanity. The Book of Daniel talks about the price of Perisa and the price of Greece. The Persian Empire was the dominant empire of Daniel's day. It was proceeded by the Greek Empire. Clearly, those spiritual principalities held sway over those empires and may have been involved in raising them up. Isaiah 14:3 and Ezkiel 28 both talk about earthly kings, but then the narrative shifts to Lucifer, who was the real power behind the earthly powers. Paul said as much, we don't wrestle against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places (Eph 6:12). Revelation 20:3 says that Satan would be bound so he could deceive the nations no more. So clearly, Satan and his minions can exert influence.

You're absolutely right, the Devil and His Demons do work in the spiritual realm. Their main goal is to hinder the gospel message from going out into the whole world. So they seek to discredit Christians by setting traps to expose some basseting sin.
The best way to stop the gospel being shared is to cripple a Christian and make him lose credibility, by exposing some sin he fell into. The enemy knows our weakness and He will set traps and cause us to stumble, if we don' put on the whole armor of God.
Christians can't lose their salvation but their testimony and credibility to witness can diminish or become impotent, if the Devil manages to seduce them. We already wrestle with ourselves, the world and the powers f darkness. The battle is fierce and we can only overcome temptation by constant vigilance and using the sword God has given us.

 

[face2face]

I can give you many more verses, but these leave no doubt that your view is utterly baseless.

One truth I will give you Christian; you will never be able to prove the existense of fallen divine angels in the Bible - its a futile task!

 

[face2face]

True, but the spiritual principalities in high places do exert a lot of influence on humanity. The Book of Daniel talks about the price of Perisa and the price of Greece. The Persian Empire was the dominant empire of Daniel's day.

Correct - Governments are the High Places! Well done for discerning this correctly...

It was proceeded by the Greek Empire. Clearly, those spiritual principalities held sway over those empires and may have been involved in raising them up. Isaiah 14:3 and Ezkiel 28 both talk about earthly kings, but then the narrative shifts to Lucifer, who was the real power behind the earthly powers.

Ah here is where you leave the inspired text for the insertion of man-made notions. Rather than being honest with the context you force into it that which you desire - long has man done this to the Word.

Paul said as much, we don't wrestle against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places (Eph 6:12). Revelation 20:3 says that Satan would be bound so he could deceive the nations no more. So clearly, Satan and his minions can exert influence.

Those wicked spiritual forces are well documented by Paul if you wish to look

F2F

 

[face2face]

It is now generally understood that the traditionally appealed to passages (Numbers 22:22-35, 1 Chronicles 21:1, Job 1-2, and Zechariah 3:1-7), do not describe the satan of ‘orthodox’ belief. ‘We may guess that the readers of 2 Sam. 24:1 understood that Yahweh incited David through the means of a satan (adversary) or other divine agent. Thus there is probably no Devil/Satan in the later sense in this passage, just as there is none in Num. 22:22–35; Job 1–2; and Zech. 3:1–7.’

The genuine well read Christian will agree with this assessment and respond accordingly

F2F

 

[face2face]

Cont...

Even the footnote in the evangelical New English Translation says ‘In light of usage elsewhere the adversary in 1 Chr 21:1 is likely a human enemy, probably a nearby nation whose hostility against Israel pressured David into numbering the people so he could assess his military strength’. Other commentators say it could be either.

 

[face2face]

@Aunty Jane @Christian Soldier

What about translation?

‘They avoided calling the Angel of Yahweh a diabolos in the story of Balaam. But they decided that it was not Satan who incited David to sin, but only "a satan," that is, "a devil," doubtless intending a merely Human adversary.’

The footnote in the New English Translation on Isaiah 14:12 (long understood by traditional Christianity as a reference to satan), follows the the correct contextual interpretation.

‘What is the background for the imagery in vv. 12–15? This whole section (vv. 4b–21) is directed to the king of Babylon, who is clearly depicted as a human ruler.’ 22‘Some Christians have seen an allusion to the fall of Satan here, but this seems contextually unwarranted (see J. Martin, “Isaiah,” BKCOT, 1061).’23

23 NET Bible (1sted., 2006)

Don't you enjoy the honesty of translators?

F2F

 

[face2face]

The Jews who translated the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek -the Septuagint -perhaps some three centuries later (say, around 200 BC) sometimes saw a deceitful element in the word satan, and so translated it as epiboulos, “plotter.” Or they left it alone, as “a satan.” But at other times they translated it more directly as diabolos, “opponent.” They avoided calling the Angel of Yahweh a diabolos in the story of Balaam. But they decided that it was not Satan who incited David to sin, but only “a satan,” that is, “a devil,” doubtless intending a merely Human adversary. However, they manifest a belief that one of God's Angels not only acted as a satan, but was actually named Satan, which they rendered in Greek as ho Diabolos, DEVIL, in the Books of Job and Zechariah.’, Kelly, ‘Satan: A Biography’, p. 31 (2008)

 

[Christian Soldier]

So Jesus put down all the demons then? There are no demons, no possessions, no oppression by evil spirits? Just mans own wickedness?

Well let's stay in the NT so it is after Jesus and see what He tells us about our enemy.

What about this?:

Ephesians 6:12
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.../KJV

So why do you suppose it says we wrestle with the rulers of the darkness? Is that not evil spirits somehow? This teaching in scripture was written after Jesus was gone back to heaven. Spiritual wickedness. That's evil spirits and demons friend.

There's more too. Need more scripture?

The Devil and His Demons are nothing more than a bunch of barking dogs, all they can do to the Christian is bark at him while e tries to witness to his family and friends. But they have to ask Gods permission if they want to harm a single hair on our heads.
This protection is only for Christians, God may allow the Devil and His Demons to do deceive unbelievers. Nobody knows what God may or may not allow them to do to unbelievers. That's Gods private business, He has never told anyone why or who or when or how.

All we know is that the war is for the hearts and minds of men, the Devil know the most effective way to destroy a person is to stop him from believing the true gospel, and deceive him into believing a false gospel. The only power that God gives the Devil and His Demons is the power to deceive unrepentant sinners.

So our wrestle is against those who preach the doctrine of Demons, they are the Devils sales representatives. They destroy their victims, without laying a finger on them. The real war is for the truth, the Devil does everything He can to pervert the gospel and stop people from being saved by the true gospel, that's the only wrestling that goes on in the life of a Christian.

The Devils strategy is to stop unbelievers from finding out that He exists, most people don't believe He exists so He operates from the darkness. He's not that stupid to allow His Demons to posses anyone, as that would expose them and confirm to everyone that they exist. So they're happy to hide in the darkness and watch the vast majority of mankind going straight to hell.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Please show me from Genesis your fallen angel lol...this will be good!

If you don't know this bible doctrine, then you are the only person I've ever meet who doesn't know this. If you think the Serpent was some kind of a pretty looking reptile, then you have been deceived to believe the fairy tale version

 

[Christian Soldier]

‘It is worth pausing to consider the Old Testament view of “Satan.” Contrary to popular thinking, for the ancient Israelites this figure was not the personification of evil, the archnemesis of God—this view developed in later Judaism and Christianity. Rather, “satan” in the Old Testament describes a character (human or divine) who functions as an adversary or opponent, or even a prosecutor in legal contexts (cf. 1 Sam. 29:4 [David]; 2 Sam. 19:22 [Abishai]; 1 Kings 5:4; Ps. 109:4). Even in the book of Job, the “satan” is not evilbut is associated with the group of divine beings called the “sons of God” whose duty it is to serve the Lord (Job 1:6; 2:1; see NIV notes). The “satan” in Job is a sort of divine prosecutor whose task is to ferret out hypocrisy.’, Wolf (rev. Holmstedt), ‘1-2 Samuel’, in Burge & Hill (eds.), ‘The Baker Illustrated Bible Commentary’, pp. 311-312 (2012)

@Aunty Jane
@Christian Soldier

Satan is not just Satan, He has a long list of names. Why don't you define all of His other names. If you're trying to deny Gods Word, you will have to show us why you reject all of Satan's other names and Titles

 

[Christian Soldier]

One truth I will give you Christian; you will never be able to prove the existense of fallen divine angels in the Bible - its a futile task!

Your challenge is invalid as you are asking me to provide proof for creatures that don't exist. There's no such thing as "fallen divine angels"
Angels are not "Divine" for a start, that title belongs to the Triune God alone. You have Angels and fallen Angels, God said He cast out those Angels who joined Lucifer in His rebellion against God. Those Angels who sinned, are known as fallen Angels, or Demons.
I shouldn't have to teach you the basic elementary Kindergarten Bible, ABC's.

 

[Christian Soldier]

@Aunty Jane @Christian Soldier

What about translation?

‘They avoided calling the Angel of Yahweh a diabolos in the story of Balaam. But they decided that it was not Satan who incited David to sin, but only "a satan," that is, "a devil," doubtless intending a merely Human adversary.’

The footnote in the New English Translation on Isaiah 14:12 (long understood by traditional Christianity as a reference to satan), follows the the correct contextual interpretation.

‘What is the background for the imagery in vv. 12–15? This whole section (vv. 4b–21) is directed to the king of Babylon, who is clearly depicted as a human ruler.’ 22‘Some Christians have seen an allusion to the fall of Satan here, but this seems contextually unwarranted (see J. Martin, “Isaiah,” BKCOT, 1061).’23

23 NET Bible (1sted., 2006)

Don't you enjoy the honesty of translators?

F2F

Wow, you've run off into mysticism with those translations. How did you manage to connect "a satan" and a "a devil". Satan simply means "false accuser", but "a devil" is an actual person, also known as a Demon.

So who every taught you theology ripped you off and deceived you to believe a lie.

 

[christsavedme]

I'm currently doing a study on this subject and I'm far from completing the study, so I'm not fully equipped to defend what I believe about this difficult subject. I'm happy to be corrected by scripture, but I don't think that private opinions or views are helpful.

As Christians, we can be sure of the existence of Satan and demons because the Bible plainly depicts them as fallen angels who work in the world to oppose God and his people, to deceive and blind unbelievers to the Truth.

We have a very real adversary who roams around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour 1 Peter 5:8. As Ephesians 6 describes, “our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms” Eph 6:12.

The devil is bent on destroying Christians and their testimony, and stopping the progress of the gospel.
The Scriptures indicate that Satan can oppress us, assault us, tempt us, slander us, and accuse us. But a Christian who is indwelled by the Holy Spirit cannot be possessed by a demon. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (2Cor 3:17).

Scripture reveals to us a real but invisible world inhabited by angels and demons. All we can say about this mysterious realm is what is revealed to us in Scripture, which is why speculation beyond the biblical data can be positively dangerous.

Angels are not the only inhabitants of the invisible world, since the Bible speaks of other invisible spiritual beings that possess an evil, malevolent orientation toward us. Scripture identifies them as “demons.” These beings are closely associated with magic and the occult.
They seek the destruction of humanity, yet they are aware of their ultimate doom, for they ask Jesus: “What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God” (Luke 4:34). They are commonly identified as “fallen angels,” who, under certain conditions, can possess (control) unbelievers.

Christians are at war with the powers of darkness, the war is for the mind and soul. The aim of the enemy is to deceive Gods people, He doesn't need to deceive unbelievers as they are already blind.
There's a lot more to say, but I'll leave it at this for now.

Your thoughtful reflection on the spiritual realities that surround us is a testament to your deep faith and desire to understand God's creation more fully. I am heartened by your humble approach to this complex subject, recognizing that we are all on a journey of learning and growth in our faith.

As you have wisely noted, the Scriptures reveal to us a spiritual realm that is both real and mysterious. Our loving God, in His infinite wisdom, has chosen to share with us what we need to know about these realities, while leaving much shrouded in mystery. This, I believe, is an invitation for us to deepen our trust in Him.

Your recognition of the very real spiritual battle we face is important. As St. Paul reminds us, we do indeed wrestle "against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 6:12). Yet, we must always remember that in this battle, we are not alone. Christ has already won the victory, and the Holy Spirit dwells within us, guiding and protecting us.

I am particularly moved by your emphasis on the power of the Holy Spirit in the life of believers. As you rightly point out, "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17). This beautiful truth should fill us with hope and courage. No matter what challenges or temptations we may face, we can trust in the transformative and protective power of God's love working within us.

I encourage you to continue your study of these matters, always grounding your understanding in Scripture and the teachings of the Church. But even more importantly, I urge you to focus on growing in your relationship with our loving God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. For it is in this relationship that we find our true strength and protection.

Remember, as St. John assures us, "Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world" (1 John 4:4). Let this truth fill you with peace and joy as you continue your journey of faith.

 

[Jericho]

Ah here is where you leave the inspired text for the insertion of man-made notions. Rather than being honest with the context you force into it that which you desire - long has man done this to the Word.

How so?

 

[face2face]

If you don't know this bible doctrine, then you are the only person I've ever meet who doesn't know this. If you think the Serpent was some kind of a pretty looking reptile, then you have been deceived to believe the fairy tale version

I'm starting to see we don't read the same Bible...maybe yours has been written by your many teachers?

Now the serpent was more shrewd than any of the wild animals that the Lord God had made Ge 3:1

Can you see your issue?

 

[face2face]

Your challenge is invalid as you are asking me to provide proof for creatures that don't exist. There's no such thing as "fallen divine angels"
Angels are not "Divine" for a start, that title belongs to the Triune God alone. You have Angels and fallen Angels, God said He cast out those Angels who joined Lucifer in His rebellion against God. Those Angels who sinned, are known as fallen Angels, or Demons.
I shouldn't have to teach you the basic elementary Kindergarten Bible, ABC's.

Yeah you are so infected it's not funny! It's a cancer in your mind; leprosy which is causing you to have rotting thoughts.

There are human angles (messengers)
There are divine angels (messengers)

by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 2 Peter 1:4

for they cannot die anymore (divine nature!), because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:36

You know what its like talking to you? Every time you post one of your thoughts, its always wrong, every time! You are better not to post but rather ask questions of the Word - your statements are lies, all of them.

F2F