The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[CadyandZoe]

According to the Word of God, the Day of the Lord is one year.

Where can I find this information?

 

[WPM]

So are you saying that you have your crown. Or do you have to wait until Jesus returns?

I am a king and priest. I carry spiritual authority as a Christian. I will receive a crown of life on judgment day.

 

[The Light]

Where can I find this information?

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

The day of the Lord is the day of wrath.

Wrath begins at the 7th seal is opened at the trumpets start.

 

[The Light]

I am a king and priest. I carry spiritual authority as a Christian. I will receive a crown of life on judgment day.

Why do those 24 elders have their crowns. Judgement day has not happened.

 

[WPM]

Already did.
You should have learned in First grade how to concisely answer a direct question.

Teacher ~ Question
Susie does your mother live in the house you live in?
Student ~ Answer
A lady lives in my house.
Teacher ~ Vague, doesn’t answer question.
Teacher ~ Try again.
Student ~ Answer
Yes.

Not my job to teach you how to have a valid worthwhile conversation.

When you are willing to address Scripture I will discuss. I am not going to engage in frivolity.

 

[WPM]

Why do those 24 elders have their crowns. Judgement day has not happened.

Because crowns represent spiritual authority, both in the kingdom of God and in the kingdom of darkness.

 

[WPM]

Already did.
You should have learned in First grade how to concisely answer a direct question.

Teacher ~ Question
Susie does your mother live in the house you live in?
Student ~ Answer
A lady lives in my house.
Teacher ~ Vague, doesn’t answer question.
Teacher ~ Try again.
Student ~ Answer
Yes.

Not my job to teach you how to have a valid worthwhile conversation.

I did answer your questions and I did it directly. You just didn't like the answer. That is not my problem.

 

[WPM]

I'm ready what the word says. It says TIMES AND SEASONS.


The word malarky comes to mind. You guys don't know what literal mans.


You have one return of the Lord at the end of wrath. Won't work.

Lol. You're describing yourself once again. Projection is what goes with the Pretrib doctrine. Address the Scriptures that forbid your doctrine.

 

[The Light]

Lol. You're describing yourself once again. Projection is what goes with the Pretrib doctrine. Address the Scriptures that forbid your doctrine.

Those that think that they have replace Israel do not take scripture literally.

 

[WPM]

Those that think that they have replace Israel do not take scripture literally.

How about asking us where we get our biblical grounds for that instead of just dismissing it out of hand?

 

[Taken]

I did answer your questions and I did it directly. You just didn't like the answer. That is not my problem.

When you are willing to address Scripture I will discuss. I am not going to engage in frivolity.

Agree it is worthless to continue in a Spiritual Conversation with an other whose benchmark is a mindful understanding.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

They are emotionally destroyed.( REMEMBER YOU HEARD THE CORRECT CONTEXT FROM REBUILDER. AND HE WILL CONTINUE CORRECTING YOUR ERROR)

LOL. This is one of the most ridiculous things i have ever heard on end-time forums. This sums up Pretrib!

 

[WPM]

" they shall not ESCAPE, but sudden destruction shall come upon them AS A WOMAN WITH A CHILD TRAVAILS".

3639 ólethros (from ollymi/"destroy") – properly, ruination with its full, destructive results (LS). 3639 /ólethros ("ruination") however does not imply "extinction" (annihilation). Rather it emphasizes the consequent loss that goes with the complete "undoing."
You guys don't look up much that hurts your deal

It says they are RUINED as a woman in pain with a child
They are emotionally destroyed.( REMEMBER YOU HEARD THE CORRECT CONTEXT FROM REBUILDER. AND HE WILL CONTINUE CORRECTING YOUR ERROR)


Then they are told to watch, be ready, be sober.

you correctly point out that God has not appointed us to wrath, but ,at the same time, insist that you and your colleagues go COMPLETELY THROGH THE WRATH OF GOD.

psssst...the innumerable number that no man can count ,and are in heaven, CAME OUT OF THE GT.
THEY ARE BILLIONS OF MARTYRS THAT WERE KILLED BY THE DEVIL.
Ahem....NO POSTRIBBER MADE UP PROTECTION, WITH AN IMMAGINARY 15 RAMBO'S, OF YOU "ELITES", RUNNING FROM CAVE TO CAVE SCREAMING In TERROR, AS THE AC HENCHMEN ARE RIGHT ON YOUR HEELS.

What a imagination, totally unbiblical, in the face of scripture, that DECLARES all take the mark or die.

Please try to do a tiny bit of research.

Let us look at 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9. The text declares: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain ‘shall be caught up’ [Gr. harpazō] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”

This text is likening the sudden destruction coming upon the wicked at the climatic return of Christ to the sudden travail that comes upon a woman in childbirth. It is the suddenness that is the thrust of the simile. It is nothing to do with her emotions. That is ludicrous. This is how ridiculous Pretrib is in its reasoning.Where is your seven-year tribulation in this passage?

• Where is your seven-year tribulation in this passage?
• Where are your survivors?
• How can there even be a possibility of survivors in the light of the climactic and wholesale destruction here?

Contrary to what Pretribs impute into this text (namely that that Christ is only coming “for” His saints), this reading describes how Christ comes both “with” and “for” His people the next time. Verse 14 of our reading explicitly states, “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” Those living will be “caught up” to meet Jesus when He appears. This is the ultimate uniting of the elect on earth (the live in Christ) and those in heaven (the dead in Christ).

The fact is, this is the end! Jesus comes on the “day of the Lord” as a “thief in the night.” He rescues His people, but equally His appearing sees the “sudden” and total “destruction” of the wicked: “they shall not escape.”

I mean, the Holy Spirit could not have made it clearer: "they shall not escape." This totally negates the whole Pretrib and Premil paradigm of countless wicked mortals saturating the new earth.

Anyway, if the day of the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 5:3 relates to a third coming of Christ, as some Pretribbers argue, and if they relate this to the event of Revelation 19, which they say is the end of a great 7 years tribulation, how can the wicked be crying “peace and safety”? Surely, according to Pretrib, this is a period of the wrath of God being poured out on all those left behind according to Pretrib theology?

 

[rwb]

The Day of the Lord is the age/time/era when God's will is done on earth as in heaven. Once inaugurated, that age/time/era will never end. As for the timing of the inauguration of the DOL, I take my cues from Revelation chapter 14.

Do you deny that God's will has been and is being fulfilled from the beginning? How is the Kingdom of God being built and shall be complete if His will is not being done on earth?

 

[WPM]

Do you deny that God's will has been and is being fulfilled from the beginning? How is the Kingdom of God being built and shall be complete if His will is not being done on earth?

Great question!

 

[Douggg]

It will be a day that no one knows when the seventh/last trumpet sounds, and time shall be no longer!

In your post-trib view, you have packaged the seventh trumpet sounding, the Second Coming of Jesus, the rapture - into one single specific day.

But Jesus said no-one knows the day nor hour, but God the Father. And that the world will be at ease, marrying and given in marriage - which does not fit the status of the world at Jesus's Second Coming to end the great tribulation.
.
You think the rapture happens at Jesus's Second Coming, right ? But Jesus said....


40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I haven’t referred to my doctrine.
I expressly quoted Gods approved scripture.
Jesus’ doctrine is SIMPLE.
It is lack of SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING that gives people a sting.

What you, and your fellow pretribbers, have not done is actually exegete any scripture. You do nothing to back up your claims.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

WPM does not “understand”.
Look at his quote he quotes from Scripture…




The dead in Christ…rise up to the air.
The alive in Christ….rise up to the air.
All on the Command of Lord directing His Archangel Servant…so those IN Christ are called UP to meet Him.

So WPM quotes…(others) shall be “brought” to God, by God “bringing” them to Him…

Why does WPM read, quote, and not comprehend the difference?

Oh yeah…cuz he doesn’t even pay attention to what is actually SAID in Scripture.


Glory to God,
Taken

Do you believe in soul sleep or something? The ones with Jesus when He comes would be the souls of the dead in Christ who then unite with their resurrected, changed, immortal bodies.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My commentary came from 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. You might have that passage open as you read my post.

So, you are apparently wanting to just exchange opinions back and forth without exegeting any scripture and showing exactly how you are coming to your conclusions? Is that right? If so, I have no interest in that. Back up your claims with scripture or we're done.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you going to force me to say it?

Say what exactly? I'm not interested in your games. You can't be taken seriously if you're not willing to exegete any scripture and explain clearly why you believe what you do.