The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[Douggg]

The post-trib rapture view is limited to the day that Jesus Returns. Agreed ?

Differently, the pre-trib rapture view is not limited to a specific day. Nor is the anytime rapture view.

Here are three charts. One of the post-trib view and the other of the pre-trib view. The third of the anytime rapture view.

 

[WPM]

How could Matthew 24:29-30 have possibly been in 70 AD ? Does history record that all the tribes of the earth saw Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven in power and great glory?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I meant Matthew 24:21.

 

[WPM]

When do we get those crowns?

We become kings when we come to Jesus. We hold that position in heaven when we die. Crowns symbolically represent that position.

 

[WPM]

I'm pretty sure his nickname is Christmas as he is slow as Christmas

You Pretribbers are so godly in your lingo.

I asked you to show me a rapture passage that teaches a tribulation followed by a 3rd coming.

 

[Douggg]

I meant Matthew 24:21.

Matthew 24:21-22 still does not fit 70AD. Matthew 24:15 is end times, referring to Daniel 12:11-12.

Go look at my post #681 that has the post-trib view chart, the pre-trib view chart, the anytime rapture view chart. The great tribulation is shown on all three.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

[WPM]

Matthew 24:21-22 still does not fit 70AD. Matthew 24:15 is end times, referring to Daniel 12:11-12.

Go look at my post #681 that has the post-trib view chart, the pre-trib view chart, the anytime rapture view chart. The great tribulation is shown on all three.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

You are obsessed with promoting your questionable charts. That is all you have. You are offended when you know others ignore your charts. Talk about pride. Sadly you are not convicted.

 

[Douggg]

You are obsessed with promoting your questionable charts. That is all you have. You are offended when you know others ignore your charts. Talk about pride. Sadly you are not convicted.

As shown on my chart, the post-trib rapture view has the rapture/resurrection taking place on the day of Jesus's Second Coming to end the great tribulation. The post-trib view is limited to take place on that specific day. But Jesus says that no man, nor the angels in heaven, know that day, but the Father only. Matthew 24:36.

 

[WPM]

As shown on my chart, the post-trib rapture view has the rapture/resurrection taking place on the day of Jesus's Second Coming to end the great tribulation. The post-trib view is limited to take place on that specific day. But Jesus says that no man, nor the angels in heaven, know that day, but the Father only. Matthew 24:36.

View attachment 47914

I genuinely do not know how you come to that conclusion or what your point is.

The coming of the Lord ushers in the end. That is what the Bible teaches. What is your issue?

 

[Douggg]

I genuinely do not know how you come to that conclusion or what your point is.

The coming of the Lord ushers in the end. That is what the Bible teaches. What is your issue?

The post-trib view is that the rapture happens on the day that Jesus Returns, His Second Coming - that specific day.

But that contradicts what Jesus said about no man knowing the day and hour. Only God the Father knows.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[WPM]

The post-trib view is that the rapture happens on the day that Jesus Returns, His Second Coming - that specific day.

But that contradicts what Jesus said about no man knowing the day and hour. Only God the Father knows.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

How does it? Explain.

 

[The Light]

We become kings when we come to Jesus. We hold that position in heaven when we die. Crowns symbolically represent that position.

Go ahead and post the scriptural support for that. Crickets.

 

[The Light]

You Pretribbers are so godly in your lingo.

I've noticed that those that think they have replaced Israel constantly call believers liars and following the doctrine of Satan. So don't talk to me about language.

I asked you to show me a rapture passage that teaches a tribulation followed by a 3rd coming.

Could you show me a rapture passage that teaches Jesus will return at the end of wrath and skip the second coming that occurs at the 6th seal?

 

[Davy]

Isn't that unethical? To take a mans words out of context to try to make it sound like I said there isnt any pretrib scriptures? You're such a liar. I didnt say there were no pretrib rapture scriptures. How many would you like? I have probably 20 to 30 of them.

Since the pre-trib rapture doctors refer to 1 Thessalonians 4 as proof of their belief in a rapture of Christ's Church prior to the "great tribulation", when the faithful and serious Bible student actually looks at what Apostle Paul taught there in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the gathering of the Church, then it becomes obvious the pre-trib rapture doctors are telling LIES.


1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

What is that, "... and the dead in Christ shall rise first" about, since that happens when Jesus descends from Heaven to gather His Church? Even the previous 1 Thess.4:15 verse confirms that those us still alive on earth shall not 'precede' the asleep saints that have already died (Greek for KJV "prevent" actually means 'to go beforehand' or precede).

That "... and the dead in Christ shall rise first" is about the RESURRECTION of the asleep saints that Jesus will bring with Him when He comes...

1 Thess 4:13-14
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
KJV

When does the future RESURRECTION happen per God's Word?

Jesus said:
John 6:40
40 And this is the will of Him That sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV

What "last day"? Simply, the final day of this present world!

What Apostle Paul actually taught about the time of Christ's future coming to gather His Church is actually that it will occur ON THE 'LAST DAY' OF THIS WORLD, not... with some secret rapture prior to the "great tribulation".

No wonder the pre-trib rapture doctors instead just scan... over those 1 Thess.4 verses instead of actually covering what Paul taught in them!

 

[CadyandZoe]

So, if that was the case I would assume that you would say the following verse is about the rapture and not the second coming, right?

2 Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

That verse immediately reminds me of this:

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

There are two comings of the Lord then.

 

[rwb]

I have showed you several times that the tribulation of those days of Matthew 24:21 was fulfilled in AD70. But you had no rebuttal. The argument still stands. You have obviously no response apart from your faulty charts.

Exactly! He ignores every rebuttal brought forth because he can't fit the rebuttals into his ridiculous charts!

 

[rwb]

The post-trib view is that the rapture happens on the day that Jesus Returns, His Second Coming - that specific day.

But that contradicts what Jesus said about no man knowing the day and hour. Only God the Father knows.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That's the biblical view, as you've been repeatedly shown! Christ comes again when the last (seventh) trumpet shall sound that TIME shall be no longer (Rev 10:5-7). How does this FACT contradict no man knowing the day and hour?

 

[WPM]

I've noticed that those that think they have replaced Israel constantly call believers liars and following the doctrine of Satan.

I do not see anyone doing that for simply following your belief if you tell a lie about what they believe then that is understandable.

Who here is doing that? Or is this a lie you are making up to discredit Posttribs?

 

[WPM]

There are two comings of the Lord then.

Where?

 

[MA2444]

Exactly! He ignores every rebuttal brought forth because he can't fit the rebuttals into his ridiculous charts!

Are you guys like a Tag Team or something? Lol.

 

[WPM]

Could you show me a rapture passage that teaches Jesus will return at the end of wrath and skip the second coming that occurs at the 6th seal?

Check the Op. This correlates with the 6th seal.