What is the purpose of infant baptism?

[Augustin56]

There's no need to dokimazo me brother--I believe if I'm not part of the Catholic Church I would be considered an "excommanocado"

Well, if you're not in commuinion with the Catholic Church, you are, by definition, excommunicado, i.e., not in communion with the Catholic Church.

I would keep in mind that when Saul (St. Paul by his Hebrew name) was going around persecuting Christians, Jesus knocked him off his horse and said to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" (Acts 9:4) Note that Jesus didn't say, "...why do you persecute My Church?" which he was actually doing, but "...why do you persecute Me?" Why? Because Jesus identifies as one with His Church! Persecute (and lie) about Christ's Church and you persecute (and lie) about Christ.

Historically, there was but one Christian Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity, the Catholic Church. The Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D. in the Great Schism, but retained Apostolic Authority, and, therefore, all seven Sacraments. Protestantism began in the 16th century, and has splintered ever since, into more and more and more different-believing denominations. For example, the Baptist denomination was founded by John Smyth in Amsterdam around 1609.

 

[Johann]

Well, if you're not in commuinion with the Catholic Church, you are, by definition, excommunicado, i.e., not in communion with the Catholic Church.

I would keep in mind that when Saul (St. Paul by his Hebrew name) was going around persecuting Christians, Jesus knocked him off his horse and said to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" (Acts 9:4) Note that Jesus didn't say, "...why do you persecute My Church?" which he was actually doing, but "...why do you persecute Me?" Why? Because Jesus identifies as one with His Church! Persecute (and lie) about Christ's Church and you persecute (and lie) about Christ.

Historically, there was but one Christian Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity, the Catholic Church. The Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D. in the Great Schism, but retained Apostolic Authority, and, therefore, all seven Sacraments. Protestantism began in the 16th century, and has splintered ever since, into more and more and more different-believing denominations. For example, the Baptist denomination was founded by John Smyth in Amsterdam around 1609.

Nothing I'm not aware of @Augustin56 I am a Baptist, and you had strong words against the ekklesia--Christ Jesus is my King, Prophet and Priest, my Intercessor and the Ruach HaKodesh and I am very much in fellowship and communion with two or three members here as well as in South Africa.
Your Catholic Church with the 7 sacraments is not for me.
J.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Christ Jesus did not establish the “Catholic” Church…men did…just as you criticize and claim a man named John Smythe started a Church.

A non-sequitur fallacy, If Christ Jesus didn't establish the Catholic Church, then who did??? And when? Oh, I forgot, you don't answer questions, just like ran from the definition of "pray" and reply with 2 more baseless rants.

Men NAMED their Church Catholic.
Members CALL themselves Catholic.

"Catholic" is English for the Greek "kata holos" found in Romans 1:8, where Paul uses the phrase "whole world" meaning "universal". It's one of 4 divine attributes: One, Holy , Catholic or Universal, and Apostolic. These are 4 marks of God verified in the Nicene Creed, composed by the Catholic Church, not invented by the Catholic Church. That was God's idea, and needed "men" to give it reality. The Pope didn't write the Nicene Creed, he simply ratified it, making it binding on all Christians. Sadly, some Bible cults arrogantly reject the Nicene Creed because their man made system can't identify with the Church of 325 A.D. Catholics can, and can prove it, not speculate with airy principles.
You can't help but use words like "men" and "Catholic" in a derogatory sense, making void the Word of God with your tradition.

Jesus Established Christ’s Church.
He called His Church “my Church”.

Jesus didn't establish Protestantism, men did in the 16th century, producing a church(s) from a Catholic book. THEE Church (that you despise), had to exist before the Bible, or there wouldn't be a Bible in the first place. Your position is illogical and self defeating.
Please review Augustine's post #1061, that explains what "Christ's Church" means. But you won't, it's too reasonable.

 

[Taken]

The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ. The name "Catholic" was given this same Church very early on. St. Ignatius of Antioch, the bishop of Antioch taught by St. John, the Apostle, and ordained by St. Peter, was captured by the Romans. While they were transporting him to be martyred for the faith, he wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans around 107-110 A.D., referring to the "Catholic Church," not in such a manner as if he were coining the term, but in such a manner in which he fully expected the Smyrnaeans to understand what he was talking about. It says in paragraph 8, "Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." See the entire letter here: https://www.orderofstignatius.org/files/Letters/Ignatius_to_Smyrnaeans.pdf

This is not news.

While you were keen to say…Catholic is not as if “ignatius” coined the term… the term was a Greek Word, that ignatius was apparently the first to apply that term to the “church”.

I know “your church” highly regards Ignatius, his few letters and supposed ties to Jesus’ Apostles….Except that…Jesus Himself and the Apostles themselves never make mention of him or OF Christ’s Church Being called “Catholic”.
I don’t doubt there were Gentiles eager to Learn about the Jewish God and His Christ Messiah…and eager to be involved in Christ’s Church…
I also know the Catholic Church has a long history of accounting “mens wishful ideas”and “myths”, as “facts”, that can NOT be verified IN Scripture.

Protestantism didn't begin until the 16th century,

And? So? Men Lived for 4 thousand years…Believing Umpteen different Religious Views….Before “Catholicism” !

and has continually splintered ever since into literally tens of thousands of man-made, doctrinally contradicting denominations.

Ha Ha Ha…Nothing NEW…men have had Different Religious views FOR 6 THOUSAND YEARS!

You seriously think ALL claiming to be “Catholic” AGREE on every Religious View?
…Naive!

A person claiming to be PROTESTANT…maintains ONE constant religious View…belief IN the Lord God Almighty….
Some like “rituals galore”…Some don’t.
Some like “to dance, play cards, wear short hair, women wear pants, women not work outside the home, not celebrate the Easter bunny, not have a Christmas tree, Casual dress in church, casual church…

The “favorite quote of Catholics…ten THOUSAND splintered Protestant Churches”…is a farce…they all believe in the Lord God Almighty…with differing likes and views as aforementioned…so what.

That can hardly be the grounding of Christ's truths.

Hogwash… People simply have different preferences. You might not like going to a church where people ride their horse, or motorcycle and are dusty, or not dressed the way YOU like….so what…they go to fellowship with like spiritual believing people…and like minded activities of tossing some ribs on the grill and eat together after church…

Good Grief…Catholics for hundreds of years Preached in a language men could not understand…”how enlightening”…NOT!

My own spouses G-ma attended Catholic Church every Sunday, every Mass for decades…and it was all preached in Latin…which she did not understand.

At least the Protestants were smart enough to choose a church that spoke a language they could understand!

Every Protestant Reformer (Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, etc.) was a Catholic beforehand.

See, there is hope when someone stops MERELY Listening to what they are TOLD to Believe…and actually VERIFY with Scripture…and FIND it what they TOLD to BELIEVE was a LIE.

Protestantism continually splinters because they believe that every man is his own Pope.

LOL, LOL…what a crock.
First of all…Protestants don’t have a pope…secondly they are ENCOURAGED to READ Scripture…not a SIDE-kick book of mens opinions!!

And they ignore 2 Peter 1:20-21, that says personal interpretation of Scripture is wrong.

LOL…pot calling the kettle black…
Duh…”your Catechism Book”…is exactly interpretations of men!!

Yet, that is one of the foundations of Protestantism. All you have is your personal interpretation of Scripture.

The foundation and Head of a Protestant Church…begins from top to bottom…ALL ABOUT the Lord God Almighty…not men wearing floor length gowns and bejeweled crowns and having people bow down to them, calling them “their holy father” and slobber a kiss on their ring.

There is but ONE whom Jesus called the “Holy Father”….and he NEVER was called “the pope”!

IF There were any validity to that approach, there would be ONE Protestant denomination, with all believing the same thing, not tens of thousands, belleving something different and contradictory.

And WHY do you think yourself qualified to decide for others what they LIKE…?

You have umpteen NAMES for your individual “Catholic Churches”…So? What do you care if someone wants to decide what to call their own church ?

Why are you SO concerned with individuals wanting to call their religious organization this or that….?? A group wants to meet on Wednesday…wear whatever..have softball team…babysit children so mothers can grocery shop….Really what do you care?

Do you think parading a statue of Mary or making repetitive chants around a Catholic Church is somehow making a person MORE Believing IN the Lord God Almighty?

Protestants don’t care about all your silly rituals. They do not make a Catholic MORE religious giving praise to God than a Protestant.

BTW….can you NAME 1,000, even 100 of these so called “splintered” Protestant Churches…and WHO is their Lord God they worship….or are you just repeating what you were told?

You appear to have not Had or Lost insight to what Church Jesus established….and thaat which the Jewish Apostles carried forward until their deaths.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Here is the scriptural evidence of the verbal use of "in the name of Jesus"....

6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk....

16 And his name through faith in his name...
17 But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.
18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
...similarly as the RCC and her daughters command us not to verbalize the name of Jesus.

And EVERY ONE of those beautiful verses shows the SAME thing:
"By the AUTHORITY of".

Healings, Baptisms, casting out demons - it is ALL done by the AUTHORITY of Jesus.
Baptizing in the manner that HE commanded in Matt. 28:19 is Baptizing by His AUTHORITY.

Don't worry - you'll get there . . .

 

[Taken]

A non-sequitur fallacy, If Christ Jesus didn't establish the Catholic Church, then who did???

By all accounts…Ignatius appears to be accredited.

 

[Johann]

By all accounts…Ignatius appears to be accredited.

Correct

Development into the Catholic Church
Early Christian Communities:

The term "Catholic" (meaning "universal") was first used to describe the Church by Ignatius of Antioch in the early 2nd century. In his letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ignatius wrote: "Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
This indicates the early recognition of a universal, unified body of believers under the leadership of bishops.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Spiritual requests have nothing specific to do with your pretense of being the forum “teacher”!

It is not necessary for your to repeatedly PROVE your reliance on Carnal Mindedness and Carnal Understanding regarding Spiritual things…

You should actually try reading Scripture for the Benefit of Gods Truth that opens doors to His Understanding, instead of using Scripture as a weapon and reliance on your Catechism side-kick for mens faulty interpretations.

Spiritual prayer is TO ONLY the Lord God Almighty, spirit of man to Spirit of God.

IF you have NOT a QUICKENED spirit, God has provided an INTERCESSOR for men to Call ON His NAME…JESUS
No one else!

Duh! Basic Christian tenets!

Glory to God,
Taken

NOWHERE in ALL of Scripture does it tell us that Jesus is out “ONLY intercessor.”

1 Tim. 2:5 calls Him out one MEDIATOR.
As for intercession – This is something that the ENTIRE Body of Christ does for one another (1 Cor. 12:21-22. James 5:16, Rev. 8:5).

STUDY your Bible . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Good grief, give it a rest! No one has a requirement to believe, like, agree with your Catholic Church, it’s dogma, it’s rituals, it’s statues, it’s shrines, it’s doctrine, or it’s umpteen dead people ya’ll pray TO…
Anti-catholic, Boo Hoo, so what…

You are not the authority, dictator, decider of WHO non-Catholic’s like and associate with…
Or not care to associate with.

You should have learned as a child, people choose to associate or distance themselves from others….because of an individuals behavior.

If someone does not LIKE YOU…seriously, it has Nothing to do with you being a Catholic!!!

I don’t care if you “agree” with me or not.
I was talking about your abhorrent behavior towards Catholics.

I guess the truth hurts. . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Refute me Catholic-that's IF you can!

You just did it FOR me.

Besides, I've been refuting your nonsense for several days now . . .

 

[Truther]

And EVERY ONE of those beautiful verses shows the SAME thing:
"By the AUTHORITY of".

Healings, Baptisms, casting out demons - it is ALL done by the AUTHORITY of Jesus.
Baptizing in the manner that HE commanded in Matt. 28:19 is Baptizing by His AUTHORITY.

Don't worry - you'll get there . . .

No, they sai Jesus' name was spoken, not assumed.

You think Jesus name is assumed without speaking it.

Silly.

 

[RedFan]

No, they sai Jesus' name was spoken, not assumed.

You think Jesus name is assumed without speaking it.

Not me. I think Jesus' name is assumed when "the Son" is SPOKEN. After all, who else can "the Son" refer to?

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, they sai Jesus' name was spoken, not assumed.

You think Jesus name is assumed without speaking it.

Silly.

No, it's just that I - and MOST of the English-speaking world fully understands what "In the name of" means - even if YOU don't.

 

[Truther]

Not me. I think Jesus' name is assumed when "the Son" is SPOKEN. After all, who else can "the Son" refer to?

Wow, so you don’t even have to say the name of Jesus when you are conducting a word or deed, you just assume it?

There are about 3 billion people on the planet that we live on with the title son. I think we need to be a little more specific, huh?

 

[Truther]

No, it's just that I - and MOST of the English-speaking world fully understands what "In the name of" means - even if YOU don't.

I see, the Roman Catholic Church says in the name of assumption. Fascinating.

 

[Truther]

The Roman Catholic Church must say stuff like this… “In the name of… You know… What do you mean, you don’t know?“. “ Well we assumed you knew“.

 

[Truther]

I long to see the day that a priest, in baptizing, an adult of all people, says “I baptize you in the name of the father, and in the name of Jesus, and in the name of the Holy Ghost“”.
I know I will never see it because they will sick the Roman Legion on him… Lol.

 

[RedFan]

I long to see the day that a priest, in baptizing, an adult of all people, says “I baptize you in the name of the father, and in the name of Jesus, and in the name of the Holy Ghost“”.
I know I will never see it because they will sick the Roman Legion on him… Lol.

What???? In the name of JUST "Jesus"??? Not "Jesus CHRIST"??? That would be a total waste, according to you! Gotta mouth the words "Jesus Christ," according to you. No substitutes allowed, according to you. Can't mouth the words "the Son," nor any other reference to Him, according to you. Doesn't matter that everyone on earth and in heaven knows that "Jesus" means Jesus Christ, and that "the Son" means Jesus Christ, according to you. The exact phrase "Jesus Christ" is REQUIRED, according to you.

 

[RedFan]

There are about 3 billion people on the planet that we live on with the title son. I think we need to be a little more specific, huh?

When my Dad called me "son," it was clear to everyone who heard him that he was referring uniquely to me. When a priest or minister baptizes in the name of "the Son," it is clear to everyone who hears him that he is referring uniquely to Jesus Christ.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Augustin56 said:

The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ. The name "Catholic" was given this same Church very early on. St. Ignatius of Antioch, the bishop of Antioch taught by St. John, the Apostle, and ordained by St. Peter, was captured by the Romans. While they were transporting him to be martyred for the faith, he wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans around 107-110 A.D., referring to the "Catholic Church," not in such a manner as if he were coining the term, but in such a manner in which he fully expected the Smyrnaeans to understand what he was talking about. It says in paragraph 8, "Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." See the entire letter here: https://www.orderofstignatius.org/files/Letters/Ignatius_to_Smyrnaeans.pdf

This is not news.

While you were keen to say…Catholic is not as if “ignatius” coined the term… the term was a Greek Word, that ignatius was apparently the first to apply that term to the “church”.

If that's true, then the Smyrnaeans would have no clue what Ignatius was talking about. Belief always precedes "terms". Trinity is a term not in the Bible but believed before the term came about. It's not a stretch to believe the term "Catholic" was used BEFORE Ignatius.

I know “your church” highly regards Ignatius, his few letters and supposed ties to Jesus’ Apostles….Except that…Jesus Himself and the Apostles themselves never make mention of him or OF Christ’s Church Being called “Catholic”.

I've been over this before. "kata holos" is Greek for "Catholic" in Romans 1:8, that your tradition denies.

I don’t doubt there were Gentiles eager to Learn about the Jewish God and His Christ Messiah…and eager to be involved in Christ’s Church…
I also know the Catholic Church has a long history of accounting “mens wishful ideas”and “myths”, as “facts”, that can NOT be verified IN Scripture.

Every authentic belief and practice does not have to be verified in Scripture because there is no scripture that states this.

Protestantism didn't begin until the 16th century,

And? So? Men Lived for 4 thousand years…Believing Umpteen different Religious Views….Before “Catholicism” !

You are running from the facts with this polemical nonsense. Nobody is talking about 4000 years of different religions, Protestantism didn't begin until the 16th century, that you are a splintered off minority within a minority, and arrogantly claim to be "Christ's Church" to the inclusion/exclusion of everybody else.

Augustine 56 said:

I would keep in mind that when Saul (St. Paul by his Hebrew name) was going around persecuting Christians, Jesus knocked him off his horse and said to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" (Acts 9:4) Note that Jesus didn't say, "...why do you persecute My Church?" which he was actually doing, but "...why do you persecute Me?" Why? Because Jesus identifies as one with His Church! Persecute (and lie) about Christ's Church and you persecute (and lie) about Christ. ​

​

No reply, just more baseless rants.

Ha Ha Ha…Nothing NEW…men have had Different Religious views FOR 6 THOUSAND YEARS!

You seriously think ALL claiming to be “Catholic” AGREE on every Religious View?
…Naive!

A person claiming to be PROTESTANT…maintains ONE constant religious View…belief IN the Lord God Almighty….
Some like “rituals galore”…Some don’t.
Some like “to dance, play cards, wear short hair, women wear pants, women not work outside the home, not celebrate the Easter bunny, not have a Christmas tree, Casual dress in church, casual church…

The “favorite quote of Catholics…ten THOUSAND splintered Protestant Churches”…is a farce…they all believe in the Lord God Almighty…with differing likes and views as aforementioned…so what.

So what? Paul condemns division, but you say "so what".

That can hardly be the grounding of Christ's truths.

Hogwash… People simply have different preferences. You might not like going to a church where people ride their horse, or motorcycle and are dusty, or not dressed the way YOU like….so what…they go to fellowship with like spiritual believing people…and like minded activities of tossing some ribs on the grill and eat together after church…

You miss the point...again. The CC is NOT anti-Protestant, it's a minority within a minority of Protestants who are anti-Protestant, bringing division to a new level. Anti-Protestants are reformers reforming the former reformers with more reforms who also cover up the teachings of the original reformers. That's anarchy.
"I don't follow the reformers, I follow the Bible" is the essence of reformism.

Good Grief…Catholics for hundreds of years Preached in a language men could not understand…”how enlightening”…NOT!

"Sola scriptura" is a LATIN phrase used by the reformers, so no one could understand it? How enlightening.