Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

[JohnDB]

️12% of LGBTQ youth attempted suicide last year



Note that this is the percentage that has committed suicide in ONE year, the lifetime chance of suicide is way higher. And all this is happening while acceptance and social support for LGBTQ is at an all time high.



Still think this is a natural lifestyle?

@SoundOfFreedomChannel

On top of this the crime and public services utilized statistics for this group is disproportionate to any other statistical group. IE: They are a drain on resources instead of adding value to a community.

They claim that they simply want a different sexual lifestyle but in other ways they are exactly same as anyone else. However that's hardly the case. Almost 70% of all domestic violence, 80% of child rape, and etc. Currently the crime/public services statistics are being hidden from the public due to political agendas.

What Paul said in Romans 1&2 is the truth.

 

[Stash]

I’m 70 I never even heard of a gay person until I was in my 20s
Why because they were in the closet yes, they were around, but they were very quiet

But now it’s in your face
How do they expect us to feel especially when they bring up a question like this on a christian forum

When I drink alcohol, I don’t want kids around me. I don’t want to set a bad example.

If I was gay, I would go back in the closet
I would do it because it’s better for Society

 

[The Learner]

start at

• #341

 

[JohnDB]

 

[BarneyFife]

Because it's an ongoing topic for you. No different from a particular member of this site going on about Saturday worship services.
Everything he posts about is turned and twisted into this one subject.

When quite literally there is an entire life to be lived out beyond these single subjects. But they do not want to discuss anything other than these topics. As if to convert us into these very subjects. It's a form of fishing to lure people into their particular lifestyles.

Of course you're right. We should have to give account for discussing a sufficient variety of topics.

Kind of like an Affirmative Action discussion policy.

Diversity is okay as long as certain people don't get to decide what "diversity" means.

By the way, who's going to be in charge of making that list?

.

 

[JohnDB]

Of course you're right. We should have to give account for discussing a sufficient variety of topics.

Kind of like an Affirmative Action discussion policy.

Diversity is okay as long as certain people don't get to decide what "diversity" means.

By the way, who's going to be in charge of making that list?

.

I know..
Let's get a bunch of guilty feeling white women to do it.
And they are angry about getting left off the famous junk and fast food character list.

Ronald Mcdonald is a guy
Chester cheeto is a guy
Hamburgler is male
Frito bandito is another guy
Fry Guys are guys...
Even Wendy's is Dave Thomas

No women allowed in this club

 

[BarneyFife]

I know..
Let's get a bunch of guilty feeling white women to do it.
And they are angry about getting left off the famous junk and fast food character list.

Ronald Mcdonald is a guy
Chester cheeto is a guy
Hamburgler is male
Frito bandito is another guy
Fry Guys are guys...
Even Wendy's is Dave Thomas

No women allowed in this club

Why do they have to be white?

.

 

[JohnDB]

Why do they have to be white?

.

Because Asian Moms throw shoes?
It's their defining characteristic.

 

[BarneyFife]

Because Asian Moms throw shoes?
It's their defining characteristic.

Yeah

.

 

[The Learner]

rth

 

[St. SteVen]

That lifestyle is suicidal for the human species

As I understand it there are plenty of babies up for adoption. Many LGBTQ couples would like to have a family. IMHO

]

 

[St. SteVen]

huh??? Spiritual things are passed through bloodlines as well.

Yes. Both positive and negative.

] cc: @TLHKAJ

 

[MA2444]

As I understand it there are plenty of babies up for adoption. Many LGBTQ couples would like to have a family. IMHO

]

For what? So they can turn the children into Freaks also?!

That's absurd. They all should be banned from adopting children. And banned from coming out of the closet, lol.

 

[Arthur81]

I'm still trying to help Christians understand this COMPLEX issue that they have reduced to a knee-jerk reaction.
Notice the term "LGBTQ humans" in the topic title. I need to remind Christians that these people are human. - Sigh.
Because they are typically treated by Christians as subhuman.

In my previous topic, WWJD with LGBTQ, I tried to inform forum members about what I knew about the subject.
--- If you wonder where I am coming from, that's a good place to start. ---

The level of ignorance on this subject is substantial.
And more than that, the level of aggression toward those humans with these issues.
And EVEN more than that, the aggression toward anyone, like myself who would DARE
to stand up to defend these precious ones that Jesus gave his life for.
Recently I have been accused of being a "homo" (I'm not) and for "lying" (I didn't) about being a Christian (in Christ). - Sigh.

Therefore, the Ethics & Morality Forum seemed appropriate. This has become an issue of Ethics & Morality.

Understanding LGBTQ - 101 / Terminology:
(note: we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to understand them)
I'm not an expert by any stretch; but this is what I have learned to date.

Birth Sex: The sex/gender you were born with.
Determined by the presence of male or female genitalia.
A small percentage are born with dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities.
See "Gender Assigned at Birth" below.

Gender Assigned at Birth: Now part of the paperwork doctors are required to fill out.
Allowing for parents to assign Non-Binary gender on the birth certificate.
Previously this was reserved for doctors and parents (hopefully) in cases of
dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities. (this subject is new to me)

Gender Identity: In most cases gender is determined by birth sex.
But as we have all seen, hormonal imbalances can give us a broad range of maleness and femaleness.
There are very masculine females and very feminine males. and everything in between.
See Gender Roles and Gender Dysphoria below.

Gender Roles: We see early signs of children gravitating toward gender specific interests.
Typically girls play with dolls and boys prefer trucks. But not always. Happens as early as 3 to 5 years.
We have seen a lot of evening out in this area. Opportunities for women in typically male roles.
Things have gone in the other direction as well. With more and more stay-at-home Dads.

Gender Dysphoria: The situation where a birth sex male feels that they are a female in a male body.
Or a birth sex female feels that they are a male in a female body. Usually realized in adolescence.
However, some children as young as 3 to 5 years old are acting on strong urges to opposite gender behavior.
Unfortunate, this has been OVER-STRESSED in recent years to epidemic proportions.
Gender identity is being pushed on anyone with a hormonal balance in either direction.
And has become popular in teen culture to pursue gender identity opposite their birth sex.

Transgender: A range of reactions to gender dysphoria. Manifesting in anything from
clothing and hair style preferences and name change to gender reassignment surgery.

Sexual Orientation: Attraction to opposite sex, or same-sex partners.
Note: Transgenderism does NOT automatically effect a change in sexual orientation.

Monogamous Relationships:
A couple in a lifetime commitment to each other regardless of sexual orientation.

Again, we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to UNDERSTAND them
in order to have any meaningful relationships with LGBTQ humans.

Discussion questions:
Please use the terminology laid about above in the discussion, thanks.

1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

Steven, this is a good OP. As to your questions, by number -
1- Yes
2- Yes
3- Yes
4- Yes
5- Sadly, NO
6- Nothing constructive!
7- As you are doing, post edifying articles to the best of my ability as God guides

I would add something to your statement on Sexual Orientation. Enduring Attraction to opposite sex, or same-sex partners.

On sexual orientation, the heated argument is often termed "nature or nurture"; or, born this way or it was learned. It is clear it is not a choice, and for exclusively enduring sexual orientation, it is not changeable. From the American Psychological Association -

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

Understanding sexual orientation and homosexuality

Sexual orientation refers to an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attractions to men, women, or both sexes.

www.apa.org

I believe the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul fits -

"Who do you think you are to answer God back? Can the pot say to the potter, ‘Why did you make me like this?’? Surely the potter can do what he likes with the clay. Is he not free to make two vessels out of the same lump, one to be treasured, the other for common use?" (Rom 9:20-21 REB)

If sexual orientation is not a person's choice, then whose choice or decision was it? For the Christian who is gay, the question becomes one of how to live a Christian life? Sexual orientation while it is not changeable, the Christian is responsible for how he lives out his situation. Does he have the gift of celibacy? If not, how does he live a moral Christian life? Is there a Biblical answer that avoids perverting the institution of marriage?

 

[St. SteVen]

I would add something to your statement on Sexual Orientation. Enduring Attraction to opposite sex, or same-sex partners.

On sexual orientation, the heated argument is often termed "nature or nurture"; or, born this way or it was learned. It is clear it is not a choice, and for exclusively enduring sexual orientation, it is not changeable. From the American Psychological Association -

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation." ...

If sexual orientation is not a person's choice, then whose choice or decision was it? For the Christian who is gay, the question becomes one of how to live a Christian life? Sexual orientation while it is not changeable, the Christian is responsible for how he lives out his situation. Does he have the gift of celibacy? If not, how does he live a moral Christian life? Is there a Biblical answer that avoids perverting the institution of marriage?

Great points, thanks!

]

 

[Spyder]

There is nothing, not one thing, that shows the homosexuals are "born that way." While we might not like it, failing to show any genetic trait that leads to homosexuality, we are left with realizing that events in people's lives have conditioned them to accept the intimate affections of a same-sex partner.

Also, the stigma of being discovered to be a homosexual person has been largely removed. That being the case, there is nothing restricting individuals from participating in that behavior. They may even be celebrated for being courageous enough to come out of that closet!

Alfred Kinsey had an axe to grind in the 60's when he did supposed scientific research on homosexuality - which he did in a men's prison. His results were fatally flawed. One does not have to be "gay" to allow behave that way. One only has to seek pleasure where it cannot be found any other way. That is NOT the same as being homosexual.

Convincing some association of psychologists that it is a "born that way" condition depends largely on accepting popular opinions as facts. That is how homosexuality got removed from the list of psychological disorders in the 70's. Someone benefitted from that change, but I don't know who that was.

It still changes nothing that scripture states about that sin. It is still sin.

 

[St. SteVen]

There is nothing, not one thing, that shows the homosexuals are "born that way."

There certainly is anecdotal evidence from personal testimony.

Typically a teen will notice that they are attracted to the same sex. Knowing this is not the standard accepted arrangement can be troubling. Less so in today's social environment.

Where does this attraction come from? Environment might play a role, but if a person was born hetero, why would they alter their attraction? Granted, some may be bisexual in attraction. But, where does a same sex attraction come from? If one can't deny it when they reach puberty, then they were probably born with it. Not sure that genetics have anything to do with it. Nor could it be proven, or unproven, scientifically.

There are probably people like this in most churches. Raised in an environment that tells them that "homosexuality is an abomination". (the WORST sort of sin) They are certain to NOT get any help or understanding from the church. But there are a growing number of "gay affirming" churches emerging.

Gay Affirming Christian Churches; Homosexuality & the Bible

GayChurch.org ministers to the LGBTQI Christian community with the largest gay Welcoming and Affirming Church Directory in the world.

www.gaychurch.org

]

 

[Arthur81]

There is nothing, not one thing, that shows the homosexuals are "born that way." While we might not like it, failing to show any genetic trait that leads to homosexuality, we are left with realizing that events in people's lives have conditioned them to accept the intimate affections of a same-sex partner.

Also, the stigma of being discovered to be a homosexual person has been largely removed. That being the case, there is nothing restricting individuals from participating in that behavior. They may even be celebrated for being courageous enough to come out of that closet!

Alfred Kinsey had an axe to grind in the 60's when he did supposed scientific research on homosexuality - which he did in a men's prison. His results were fatally flawed. One does not have to be "gay" to allow behave that way. One only has to seek pleasure where it cannot be found any other way. That is NOT the same as being homosexual.

Convincing some association of psychologists that it is a "born that way" condition depends largely on accepting popular opinions as facts. That is how homosexuality got removed from the list of psychological disorders in the 70's. Someone benefitted from that change, but I don't know who that was.

It still changes nothing that scripture states about that sin. It is still sin.

While there is ongoing debate and research on the origins of homosexual orientation, several studies suggest that there may be a biological component to sexual orientation. Twin studies and genetic studies have provided some evidence for a genetic link, but more research is needed to fully understand the complex interplay of biological and environmental factors that contribute to an individual’s sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation in a U.S. national sample of twin and nontwin sibling pairs - PubMed

Familial factors, which are at least partly genetic, influence sexual orientation. The results of these analyses should be interpreted in the context of low statistical power and the use of a single item to assess the complex phenotype of sexual orientation.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Arthur81]

This reply is admittedly off topic, but I see no alternative. I find my OP contrasting Racism with Ethnocentrism was deleted as being horribly offensive. The writings of the Apostle Paul must be offensive as well, as I had quoted in that OP, Titus 1:12-13 and 1 Cor. 15:33. Though this thread is not about that, I wish to in some way clarify my perspective.

In one of the darkest times in my life 25 years ago, Providence brought to me one who was to become a faithful friend and intimate companion(Psa. 55:13). He is Chinese, a Christian, and now a legal, naturalized US citizen, and a Trump supporter. He is truly a friend who sticks closer than a brother(Pro. 18:24) and over time has become like a son to me, due to my greater age. Almighty God did not provide me with a white American as a close friend and support, but one from a culture very strange to me.

Early in that friendship, I observed true racism so I am well aware it exists, and I know what it is!

A number of years ago I stayed in a metropolitan area hotel in a northern State. Upon arrival I could have thought mistaken that I landed in Iran. Muslims were all about and even the sign on the hotel door was in Arabic as well as English. Why we allow persons who do not accept Separation of church and State, freedom of religion and prefer instead a caliphate, into the country, I do not understand.

Some time back I entered a Burger King in south Florida and because no one at the counter spoke English, I ended up leaving and going elsewhere. Multiple times I've had to make phone calls to corporations and struggled to understand the person they had as telephone support. I do believe English should definitely be made the official language of the USA.

By the way, I qualified my use of words in friendship by Scripture, as a wise thing to do considering the topic of this threat.

 

[Gottservant]

"He who validates perversity, invites a quarrel"

I'm not saying LGBTQ are necessarily perverse, I'm saying the danger that they be perverse is real and asking people to validate them as if there is no danger is dangerous.

God let the Devil roam the garden of Eden, but He expressly stated "don't eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" - we are not just in a post-forbidden fruit era, everyone, including heterosexual marriages need to be wary of temptation and the work of the evil one.