• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
7,013
3,848
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
False. In post #37, I repeated once an argument I had made for the first time in our discussion in post #33, because you had addressed every argument from post #33, except the one that refutes your belief that satan sent the star: satan wouldn't have led the Magi to Jesus, so that they could offer gifts, much less pay homage to/worship Him, whether as an earthly king or as God.
Seriously.....what aspect of this discussion was not covered?
What have you provided that refutes a thing that I have shown you from scripture? Logically and scripturally your beliefs regarding the magi are in error and promote a satanic lie.....that is on you if you still want to hang onto it......it’s none of my business what you choose to believe, but don’t come to a “Christian” forum and try to tell us something the Bible does not. Maria was not a mouthpiece from God and any kind of claim regarding the supernatural is something no one can prove is from God, because after the gifts ceased, only the devil was to mimic them.
As Paul said....2 Thess 2:1-12...
As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we beg you, brethren: do not become too easily thrown into confusion or alarmed, either by something spiritual or by a statement or by a letter claiming to come from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord is already here. Let no one deceive you in any way. That Day cannot come before the final rebellion occurs and the lawless one is revealed, the son of destruction. He is the adversary who sets himself in opposition to, and exalts himself above, every so-called god or object of worship, and who even seats himself in the temple of God, declaring himself to be God.
And you also know what is now restraining him, so that he may not be revealed before his time comes. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who restrains it will continue to do so until he is removed. Then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him by the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming. His coming will be the work of Satan made manifest in all power and signs and wonders of falsehood, and in every wicked deception designed for those who are perishing because they refused to accept the love of the truth and thereby gain salvation. For this reason, God imposes on them a powerful delusion. They believe what is false, so that all who have not believed the truth but instead have taken pleasure in wickedness will be condemned.”
(NCB)

Read it carefully.....the “signs and wonders” are of “falsehood”, and not from God. If one accepts them as coming from God, they are deluded, and God allows them to stay deluded because that is their choice.....it is a wicked deception.....do those who are deceived, know that they are? ......where do you see yourself? You are trusting a deception....and trying to promote it.
The so called “wise men” were not sent from God, and neither was the star that led them to Herod. How do you not see the satanic plot to kill Jesus?

Your interpretation of the whole event is dictated by the Roman Catholic church, which I do not see as genuine “Christianity” from its very dubious beginnings. If Jesus foretold that an apostasy would take over “the church” and lead it astray....and that apostasy was beginning in the first century, who do you think fits the description of those who have departed entirely from the teachings of Jesus Christ...the one they claim to serve as their “Lord”? (Matt 7:21-23) Not a single doctrine of your church finds its origins in Scripture.

It’s time to wake up.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheHC

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,424
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
From the JW bible:

NWT Heb 1 Let all God's angels WORSHIP him!

Jesus is God!
 
Last edited:

RedFan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2022
2,871
1,258
113
70
New Hampshire
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Despite the Magi having stopped to seek an audience with King Herod (Matt. 2:1), they continued being led to Jesus, but satan wouldn't lead anyone to Jesus, so that they could offer gifts, much less pay homage to/worship Him, whether as an earthly king or as God. Therefore, satan couldn't have sent the star, but he's convinced people that he did, because as you rightly said, "he's a liar."
Satan has convinced people that he sent the star which lead the Magi to Jesus? Seriously? Which people are they? Is there a single person on the planet who thinks Satan sent that star? I'd bet my left nut against that! There are a lot of stupid people on the planet, but none so galactically stupid as to entertain for a New York moment that Satan sent the star.
 

Nephesh

Member
Jun 2, 2024
177
40
28
36
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Satan has convinced people that he sent the star which lead the Magi to Jesus? Seriously? Which people are they? Is there a single person on the planet who thinks Satan sent that star? I'd bet my left nut against that! There are a lot of stupid people on the planet, but none so galactically stupid as to entertain for a New York moment that Satan sent the star.

Ouch then, because @Aunty Jane believes satan sent the star of Bethlehem. You shouldn't call her "stupid" though because that's uncharitable, but understand that many people have been deceived by satan on this point.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
7,013
3,848
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Ouch then, because @Aunty Jane believes satan sent the star of Bethlehem. You shouldn't call her "stupid" though because that's uncharitable, but understand that many people have been deceived by satan on this point.
No “ouch” at all.....just recognition of how incredibly clever the devil is at his craft.....the old “angel of light” trick (starlight this time) works again. Not a single element of the magi story says that they were sent by God....no number given...they were not at the stable, and the star gets first order pride of place on a pagan Christmas tree.....it’s actually sad how ignorant and gullible people are.

It’s not about how many believe it unless you take into consideration how many Jesus said are on the road to life....the majority are happily deluded, travelling down the only other road there is...... (Matt 7:13-14)

Do the math....
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheHC

Nephesh

Member
Jun 2, 2024
177
40
28
36
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How do you not see the satanic plot to kill Jesus?

I do see that satan had an evil desire to kill Jesus, which is why I don't see satan also having sent a star that led the Magi to Jesus's exact location in Bethlehem, so they could offer their gifts and pay homage to/worship Him, whether as an earthly king or as God.

Seriously.....what aspect of this discussion was not covered?

This argument of mine:

• The Magi informed King Herod that they had come to worship the King of the Jews (Matt. 2:2;11)
• The Magi offered gifts to the King of the Jews (Matt. 2:11)

Despite the Magi having stopped to seek an audience with King Herod (Matt. 2:1), they continued being led to Jesus, but satan wouldn't lead anyone to Jesus, so that they could offer their gifts, much less pay homage to/worship Him, whether as an earthly king or as God. Therefore, satan couldn't have sent the star, but he's convinced people that he did, because as you rightly said, "he's a liar."
 
Last edited:

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
7,013
3,848
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I do see that satan had an evil desire to kill Jesus, which is why I don't see satan also having sent a star that led the Magi to Jesus's exact location in Bethlehem, so they could offer their gifts and pay homage to/worship Him, whether as an earthly king or as God.
What you don’t see is the reason why the star led them straight to Jesus, which it could have done in the first place if it was from God......it was so that they could tell Herod where he was.....seriously how does that escape you? Why do you think God warned them not to go back to him? It is so obvious!
This argument of mine:

• The Magi informed King Herod that they had come to worship the King of the Jews (Matt. 2:2;11)
No, they informed Herod that there was going to be another king of the Jews in the future.....but he had his dynasty all planned out already...his sons were going to succeed him not some obscure child born in poverty in nowheresville. Who cared if they were going to honor him or bring him gifts? All Herod cared about was a threat to his own sons succeeding him. He would put a stop to that......and with the murder of all those infants, I guess he thought he had succeeded.
• The Magi offered gifts to the King of the Jews (Matt. 2:11)

Despite the Magi having stopped to seek an audience with King Herod (Matt. 2:1), they continued being led to Jesus, but satan wouldn't lead anyone to Jesus, so that they could offer gifts, much less pay homage to/worship Him, whether as an earthly king or as God.
Oh boy, you are a die hard.....I guess you have been a Catholic all your life? This is indoctrination at its best.....you can’t seem to see what is right under your nose.....
Satan would most certainly lead his minions to Jesus......he wanted him dead. How else was Herod going to find him?

Therefore, satan couldn't have sent the star, but he's convinced people that he did, because as you rightly said, "he's a liar."
Just the opposite. He has convinced the whole church system that the magi were from God, as was the star that guided them......his lie has the led whole of Christendom to celebrating something that neither Jesus nor his Father nor any of the apostles sanctioned. It is based on a false story, and the real heros of that story were the shepherds to whom the angels appeared in great glory, these were the ones sent to the stable, not some foreign astrologers who were unwittingly working for the devil....

Satan is laughing at all of you....gotcha!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TheHC

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,424
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Satan is laughing at all of you....gotcha!
Such irony!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 

Nephesh

Member
Jun 2, 2024
177
40
28
36
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What you don’t see is the reason why the star led them straight to Jesus, which it could have done in the first place if it was from God......it was so that they could tell Herod where he was.....seriously how does that escape you? Why do you think God warned them not to go back to him? It is so obvious!

If satan sent the star for the purpose you claim, then after King Herod had learned from the Magi, chief priests, and teachers of the Law that the King of the Jews had been born in Bethlehem, there would've been no further need for the star, King Herod would've fulfilled the prophecy of Jeremiah anyway (31:15), and satan wouldn't have done something as unnecessary and unwanted as making sure the Magi offered their gifts and paid homage to/worship the very person he desired to have killed.
 
Last edited:
  • Wow
Reactions: TheHC

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
7,013
3,848
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
If satan sent the star for the purpose you claim, then after King Herod had learned from the Magi, chief priests, and teachers of the Law that the King of the Jews had been born in Bethlehem, there was no further need for the star, and satan wouldn't have done something as unnecessary and unwanted as making sure the Magi offered their gifts and paid homage/person to the very person he desired to have killed.
O my goodness...I can’t believe you said that......do you have no sense of logic at all?
What did Herod find out from the two sources he had? The “where” from the Jewish leaders and the “when” from the magi. Instead of searching through the town to locate the child, he had willing dupes who would lead his executioners right to him! He wasn’t stupid.....he was evil.

Enough now...this is getting ridiculous!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TheHC

Nephesh

Member
Jun 2, 2024
177
40
28
36
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, they informed Herod that there was going to be another king of the Jews in the future.

No, they said, "“Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.” (Matt. 2:2)

What you don’t see is the reason why the star led them straight to Jesus, which it could have done in the first place if it was from God......it was so that they could tell Herod where he was.....seriously how does that escape you? Why do you think God warned them not to go back to him? It is so obvious!

At King Herod's palace in Jerusalem, at the time of the Magi's arrival, he learned from them that the King of the Jews had been born, as well as learned from the chief priests and teachers of the Law that he had been born in Bethlehem. There would've been no further need for the star past this point, because King Herod had learned the location of where the King of the Jews had been born, so he could have Him killed, which you claim was the purpose of satan having sent the star.

Therefore, since the purpose of the star had been accomplished at that point, after the Magi departed Jerusalem, despite King Herod's order to return and tell him the King of the Jew's exact location in Bethlehem, satan could've hidden the star from the Magi to prevent them from offering their gifts and paying homage to/worshiping the very person he hated and wanted to be killed, whether as an earthly king or as God, and King Herod still would've gone on to fulfil the prophecy of Jeremiah (31:15), because prophecies came to pass.

That's another reason why satan couldn't have been the one who sent the star. God is the One Who sent the angels and the star, as well as warned the Magi not to return to King Herod. God's foreknowledge and allowance of King Herod's evil act makes Him no more "responsible" than of any other evil act that He has foreseen and allowed. He gave man a free will, to do good or evil, because there is no merit in coercion.
 
Last edited:

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
7,013
3,848
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
You just believe whatever you like....it doesn’t matter to me.....but it matters to God, who despises lies and those who promote them.

I’m done here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheHC

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,424
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You just believe whatever you like....it doesn’t matter to me.....but it matters to God, who despises lies and those who promote them.

I’m done here.
Why won't JW's tell us how long they've been JW's???
 

TheHC

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2021
532
528
93
Columbus
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What you don’t see is the reason why the star led them straight to Jesus, which it could have done in the first place if it was from God......it was so that they could tell Herod where he was.....seriously how does that escape you? Why do you think God warned them not to go back to him? It is so obvious!

No, they informed Herod that there was going to be another king of the Jews in the future.....but he had his dynasty all planned out already...his sons were going to succeed him not some obscure child born in poverty in nowheresville. Who cared if they were going to honor him or bring him gifts? All Herod cared about was a threat to his own sons succeeding him. He would put a stop to that......and with the murder of all those infants, I guess he thought he had succeeded.

Oh boy, you are a die hard.....I guess you have been a Catholic all your life? This is indoctrination at its best.....you can’t seem to see what is right under your nose.....
Satan would most certainly lead his minions to Jesus......he wanted him dead. How else was Herod going to find him?


Just the opposite. He has convinced the whole church system that the magi were from God, as was the star that guided them......his lie has the led whole of Christendom to celebrating something that neither Jesus nor his Father nor any of the apostles sanctioned. It is based on a false story, and the real heros of that story were the shepherds to whom the angels appeared in great glory, these were the ones sent to the stable, not some foreign astrologers who were unwittingly working for the devil....

Satan is laughing at all of you....gotcha!
It is something to behold, isn’t it?

Many people don’t even give a second thought to the fact that the Magi were astrologers! Astrology is condemned in God’s Word, because it’s God’s main Adversary who uses such things.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Aunty Jane

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,424
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is something to behold, isn’t it?

Many people don’t even give a second thought to the fact that the Maji were astrologers! Astrology is condemned in God’s Word, because it’s God’s main Adversary who uses such things.
How long you been JW?
 

Nephesh

Member
Jun 2, 2024
177
40
28
36
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Many people don’t even give a second thought to the fact that the Maji were astrologers! Astrology is condemned in God’s Word, because it’s God’s main Adversary who uses such things.

God, not satan, created the universe, including the stars, and all of creation is subject to the One Who created it. God is the One Who declared all that He created to be good. God doesn't condemn the study of anything good that He created.