What is the "SIGN" of the Son of Man - Poll

[VictoryinJesus]

And surely in Luke 21 were the same/similar recorded words as in Matt 24 of Jesus for the same intent and purpose to warn people of his generation, and of our future generation. There is no doubt that most people on earth with perish, as in Jerusalem around 60-70AD, and in our future generation because of their rebellious heart and hatred of God.

I think that Peter's experiences and of others, of your thoughts, has nothing to do with the destruction of Jerusalem and the larger judgment that awaited not only was the case for the nation(s) in Judea, all nations, when both times the Son of Man comes, in clouds of unrest, war and destruction and of different proportions.

Those saved only are to look up and lift their heads for their impending redemption; for in the same generation as Peter as many were saved in spirit/soul and physical body, and the same of our future generation, into immortal bodies.

I’m confused when He comes in the clouds of unrest, war and destruction …does He come as a thief? yet He warns against a thief catching you unprepared —the enemy who comes to kill, steal and destroy.

He came that they may have Life —teaching ‘you are not of the night where that day overtakes you as a thief’.

It’s like the sickle depicted in His hand when He comes in the clouds. Is this sickle in His hand purpose to chop men bloody with —-OR is this sickle to gather, Fruit. One is to harm men. One is to save men. Jesus Christ is either a thief who comes to catch men unprepared for thievery. Or Jesus Christ came to prepare men against thievery and returns to gather the Fruit. The sickle either becomes the worse horrific blood bath you have ever witnessed or will ever witnessed …or it is for harvesting the Fruit of God. The Fruit of God —sown (Imo) it may surprise mankind how sufficient the Fruit is and where it flourished.

Point is…I get what you are saying…I think. But I’m hopeful the Fruit of God runs through families and “restores” what is loss and I hope we will be surprised at how much it abounds.

 

[quietthinker]

but I do have questions. One is the “not by observation”. Well, it could be this miraculous event in the sky is not seen by the naked eye? Yet doesn’t it say all will see Him?

The Jews had various determiners that they thought would identify the Messiah without question. One of them is that he would miraculously and suddenly appear in the temple and no one would know where he was from.......and out of interest, he capitulated and jumped through all those 'hoops'. In response to their expectations he adds what you have quoted above 'not by observation'

 

[3 Resurrections]

How would you know that the Day of Pentecost was exactly 1,355 days after the Roman sacking of Jerusalem?

It was not 1,335 days "after the Roman sacking of Jerusalem". It was 1,335 days after the Roman soldiers under Cestius Gallus first made contact with the temple wall in AD 66 by resting their shields against it in testudo-fashion, and were about to begin undermining the wall. Josephus records the step-by-step timing of this whole episode for us, including the providential, unexplainable retreat of Cestius Gallus and his army from Jerusalem at this point. The Roman armies were not in Jerusalem at all from this time until Titus arrived in early AD 70.

This retreat of the Roman army from Jerusalem with the Zealot armies out chasing them down and defeating them allowed a brief couple of days for the believers to flee from Jerusalem and head for the mountains. Christ had forewarned the believers to flee when they saw the abomination of desolation "standing where it ought not" (the hostile Roman armies in physical contact with the temple ground's perimeter). And Josephus recorded that there was a mass exodus of people from Jerusalem at this very point.

Daniel 12:11 wrote that from those two predicted events happening in the same season of time, that there would be 1,290 days, and then 45 days after that when the end of the 1,335 days came. At the 1,290 day mark, the Roman armies under Titus had come again and set up their encampment around Jerusalem in AD 70. Josephus again gives the step-by-step order of events at this time. This encampment of the Roman armies around Jerusalem was timed at five days after Passover week had begun, in order to trap as many Passover celebrants as possible inside the city for the Roman siege. Forty-five days after this 1,290 day mark, the day of Pentecost in AD 70 arrived at the end of those 1,335 days, when Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives and gathered the resurrected saints to return to heaven with Him.

You are correct that neither Josephus nor any historian recording events in those days tells us a specific numbered day, but Josephus did record how events fell out in connection to the timing of the Jewish festivals.

 

[wooddog]

So it will be pitch black outside in the middle of the day and a huge cloud with brightness of the sun comes out of the west for emphasis, stopping for a sec to shoot some hell fire lightning bolts in Megiddo before splitting the mount of olives in two.

 

[MA2444]

But the kingdom of heaven itself is not a physical substance,

What?! So what is it then? Ethereal? So all those Testimonies I have ever heard about heaven are not true? No flowers or fields of grass or rivers? No buildings or yellow brick road made from gold bars? No trees or fruit or anything?

I'm sorry Brother but I have to disagree. It may be that heaven is very very different in an upgraded way compared to our earth, but it's still solid furniture there, lol.

People have been taken on tours inthe spirit. They went to the Library of heaven...!! Wow.
...and as we went through the door, blahblahblah...they use doors in heaven is the point. People mention it in telling their stories.

 

[3 Resurrections]

So it will be pitch black outside in the middle of the day and a huge cloud with brightness of the sun comes out of the west for emphasis, stopping for a sec to shoot some hell fire lightning bolts in Megiddo before splitting the mount of olives in two.

That's not what Zechariah 14:4-7 said concerning Christ's return. Christ's return was going to be "one day known to the Lord". It was going to be neither day nor night, (in between day and nighttime), and at evening time it would become light. Christ was going to return just as the sun was going down at the Mount of Olives location. The hill at Megiddo has nothing to do with the location of Christ's return. Neither does scripture say that there was going to be lightning bolts accompanying Christ's return.

And with the earthquake at Christ's return, the crest of the Mount of Olives was going to break apart in all directions, north, south, east and west, according to Zechariah 14:4-5 in the LXX. The resulting landslide rubble falling downhill would cause the Kidron Valley to be "blocked up as far as Azal", just like it was in the days of King Uzziah.

Hint: In King Uzziah's days, the Mount of Olives did not split in half like a meat cleaver cutting the Mount of Olives in two sections. The rocks breaking apart on that occasion fell downhill and came to block up the Kidron Valley, just like it was going to do again at Christ's second coming return.

 

[3 Resurrections]

What?! So what is it then? Ethereal? So all those Testimonies I have ever heard about heaven are not true? No flowers or fields of grass or rivers? No buildings or yellow brick road made from gold bars? No trees or fruit or anything?

You are thinking of what the third heaven's environment might be like where God dwells. I am speaking of the kingdom of heaven, which was then present among those to whom John the Baptist was speaking. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand" meant that the kingdom of heaven was then present on earth. Christ also said to those of His generation that "the kingdom of heaven is among you". That kingdom was going to be within a person as the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

The "kingdom of heaven" is more like the dominion power of God being spoken about. "Heaven" itself is a location or a realm where God and Christ dwell.

We are speaking past each other a bit.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The Jews had various determiners that they thought would identify the Messiah without question. One of them is that he would miraculously and suddenly appear in the temple and no one would know where he was from.......and out of interest, he capitulated and jumped through all those 'hoops'. In response to their expectations he adds what you have quoted above 'not by observation'

Why did they think he would miraculously and suddenly appear in their temple and no one would know where he was from?

 

[ScottA]

"Sign" - G4592
View attachment 45225

Yes, and what is a "sign" but a showing or something made manifest?

As I stated in my last post, that sign was made manifest on the cross. Which was a glimpse of heaven on earth--not as heaven, but as having originally occurred in heaven...made manifest in the world. For which He said, "the world sees Me no more."

 

[quietthinker]

Why did they think he would miraculously and suddenly appear in their temple and no one would know where he was from?

It was one of the tests for themselves on how to determine the true Messiah.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It was one of the tests for themselves on how to determine the true Messiah.

I was wondering how you know this. Is it in the word? In historical accounts? I’m sorry …I’m asking because I’m missing that part of how the Pharisees thought and operated based off their beliefs.

 

[Wick Stick]

Christ had forewarned the believers to flee when they saw the abomination of desolation "standing where it ought not" (the hostile Roman armies in physical contact with the temple ground's perimeter). And Josephus recorded that there was a mass exodus of people from Jerusalem at this very point.

I account the abomination-that-causes-desolation to be the zealot leader encamping IN the temple - "shewing himself to be God."

Anyhow, I respect your view and the study behind it. We don't quite agree on everything, but there is significant overlap.

 

[quietthinker]

I was wondering how you know this. Is it in the word? In historical accounts? I’m sorry …I’m asking because I’m missing that part of how the Pharisees thought and operated based off their beliefs.

historical accounts

 

[ewq1938]

So it will be pitch black outside in the middle of the day and a huge cloud with brightness of the sun comes out of the west for emphasis,

Basically, yes.

stopping for a sec to shoot some hell fire lightning bolts in Megiddo before splitting the mount of olives in two.

No. No shooting lightning bolts and no splitting the Mount.

 

[Truth7t7]

Since the sign of Johan was Jesus raising from the dead after 3 days which proved that Jesus was God, then the prediction by Jesus of the destruction of Jerusalem happening when Jesus said that it would happen (within that generation) in Matthew chapter 24 also was the sign of the Son of man once again proving that Jesus was God.

Your reformed preterist claim in 70AD Jerusalem's destruction is 100% false

 

[Lambano]

What is the "SIGN" of the Son of Man?​

(John 14:5)

 

[Douggg]

The appearance of the sign of the Son of Man in heaven is the sixth seal event, which terrorizes the wicked of the earth who will have been persecuting the saints.

The reaction of the kings of the earth will be to gather their armies as Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus to keep Him from executing judgment on them.

The glorified appearance of Jesus will be with sickle in hand, His intentions clear.

The timing will be 1290 days after the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king is placed on the temple mount.

Once the sign of the Son of Man, Jesus, appears in heaven to them here on earth, the kings of the earth will have 45 days to prepare to make war on Jesus. On the 45th day, Jesus descends to earth and destroys those armies. Ending the Great Tribulation of 1335 days in length.

 

[wooddog]

Basically, yes.




No. No shooting lightning bolts and no splitting the Mount.

Revelation 19

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The appearance of the sign of the Son of Man in heaven is the sixth seal event, which terrorizes the wicked of the earth who will have been persecuting the saints.

The glorified appearance of Jesus will be with sickle in hand, His intentions clear.

?
1 Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

 

[Douggg]

?
1 Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Revelation 6:
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?