CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

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JBO

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So now you believe your spirit is Alive....so, once our spirit is Born Again what then?
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God
 

Ritajanice

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Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God
He made us alive with Christ..for what reason?

And ,how do we know we are Alive with Christ?

So, you now have a spiritual Living relationship with God via his Spirit @JBO ?

As you are Born Again, you understand his word with the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

He brings you to understanding Gods word in the Spirit does he @JBO ?
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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My advice to you is..you also take your own advice you gave me.

And yes I was chosen / predestined to be Born Again...a Born Again does not choose to be Born Again.

Do you believe you chose to be Born Again?
What a strange conversation.

By the errors of my denomination I had erroneously assumed I was "saved" ... I did not say born again... when I was confirmed into the church and had my first Holy Communion. ught

It was not until at some point in my life I realized something was missing .

I desperately wanted that surety of being "in the fold" as it were .

What transpired between my initial beliefs that I was saved because "my church" said so and whenthe moment my heart felt so full I thought I could burst with happiness from acceptance and joy..... IS BETWEEN GOD AND ME>

But I travelled many a road and I finally got here.

So did I chose to be born again. Yes, but it was not until God said OK. Not until God knew my heart was ready.

Did God predestine me to be here? No. It was my own freewill in wanting and searching for him and the filling of the Holy Spirit came after I had spent decades just believing that the shed blood of Jesus
was all that mattered and it is not. Not if you want the comfort and peace that only the Spirit can offer.

Does that answer you question?
 

Ritajanice

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What a strange conversation.

By the errors of my denomination I had erroneously assumed I was "saved" ... I did not say born again... when I was confirmed into the church and had my first Holy Communion. ught

It was not until at some point in my life I realized something was missing .

I desperately wanted that surety of being "in the fold" as it were .

What transpired between my initial beliefs that I was saved because "my church" said so and whenthe moment my heart felt so full I thought I could burst with happiness from acceptance and joy..... IS BETWEEN GOD AND ME>

But I travelled many a road and I finally got here.

So did I chose to be born again. Yes, but it was not until God said OK. Not until God knew my heart was ready.

Did God predestine me to be here? No. It was my own freewill in wanting and searching for him and the filling of the Holy Spirit came after I had spent decades just believing that the shed blood of Jesus
was all that mattered and it is not. Not if you want the comfort and peace that only the Spirit can offer.

Does that answer you question?
Thanks for your testimony....if it makes sense to you and God, no problem, to me it’s confusing ...

Sorry..nowhere in Gods word does it say we “ chose”to be Born of the Spirit..that would be impossible.imo.

Spirit gives birth to spirit?

You said..So did I chose to be born again. Yes, but it was not until God said OK. Not until God knew my heart was ready.

Please show me scripture that says this please?
 
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Ritajanice

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Why? Because we were dead in trespasses and sins.
Why did your spirit need to be Born Again?
You never answered my questions above?

How did you know you were dead in trespasses and sins? @JBO ?

And ,how do we know we are Alive with Christ?

So, you now have a spiritual Living relationship with God via his Spirit @JBO ?

As you are Born Again, you understand his word with the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

He brings you to understanding Gods word in the Spirit does he?

Who leads you through scripture now you are Born Of The Spirit @JBO .?
 

Ritajanice

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I answered that.
You wrote a commentary you say,

Yet, once again all biblical/ spiritual questions unanswered..as we see above..you are now going on ignore.

You have no spiritual knowledge or understanding imo whatsoever..you just troll...ta,ta.
 

Robert Pate

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You wrote a commentary you say,

Yet, once again all biblical/ spiritual questions unanswered..as we see above..you are now going on ignore.

You have no spiritual knowledge or understanding imo whatsoever..you just troll...ta,ta.
You have a strong emphasis on being born again. We are all born into this world as sinners, with the fallen nature of our father Adam. As Adam goes, so go we. If God predestinates people to heaven or to hell, would he not predestinate a perfect person that has already been justified, sanctified and redeemed? I have never seen a perfect Calvinist. The question arises, how does a sinner born after Adam become acceptable to a holy God? You say by being born again. The Bible plainly teaches that to be born again you have to hear and believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.
 

Ritajanice

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You have a strong emphasis on being born again. We are all born into this world as sinners, with the fallen nature of our father Adam. As Adam goes, so go we. If God predestinates people to heaven or to hell, would he not predestinate a perfect person that has already been justified, sanctified and redeemed? I have never seen a perfect Calvinist. The question arises, how does a sinner born after Adam become acceptable to a holy God? You say by being born again.

Listen...I’m done discussing with you....your theology is man made doctrine imo and in your opinion I’m not Born Again and demon possessed by John Calvin...

You too are now going on ignore...you are spiritually blind and deaf....
 

Robert Pate

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Listen...I’m done discussing with you....your theology is man made doctrine imo and in your opinion I’m not Born Again and demon possessed by John Calvin...

You too are now going on ignore...you are spiritually blind and deaf....
I have been studying the Bible for over 50 years, 20 of those 50 years was with some of the most prominent Christian scholars of our time.

You can't answer my questions because you don't have the truth.
 

Logikos

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Calvinism and Arminianism represent two great camps of “Christendom” that we are outside of in our desire to stick to scripture alone.

Historically and doctrinally, we are outside that great religious movement known as the Protestant Reformation, for it is still Roman.

Currently, we are outside the great body of modern “Christianity,” for it is fulfilling the prophecy of Christ, Paul and the apostles. (Matthew 24; 2nd Thess 2; and 2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5, just to name a few. ).

Calvinism broadly used is a comprehensive theological system, given its name by its enemies mainly through the invention of the printing press.

So, sir where do you fall? and how quickly are folks like you likely to change their views on............

Arminianism...what is Arminianism?​

Arminianism essentially is a complete system of "conditional salvation" based upon man using inherent ability to perform conditions for it. Paul in Galatians one curses this system, in no uncertain words.

It is not improperly called theistic humanism – it glorifies man as the determiner of his destiny and yet tries to glorify God as well~which God will reject and curse per Galatians one.

God is limited by man’s concept of fairness: man is a very capable creature still, and he must be in total control of his destiny.

It begins with human rationalization about God that is comforting to the flesh rather than with God’s own revelation of Himself.

In general, this is a very palatable theology, in that it makes man precious, God uncontrollably in love, and salvation for the taking.

Arminianism will, and has proven to degenerate to modernism or other heresies, for God is lenient, and the need to save the lost justifies any means.

Arminianism began with Satan’s lie in the Garden of Eden to Adam and Eve, which contradicted God’s revelation and damned the race.

In defiance and denial of God’s revelation, Satan convinced Eve that she would not surely die if she ate of the fruit (Genesis 3:1-4).

Satan convinced her that she could sacramentally become just like God by her own personal act in taking the fruit (Genesis 3:5-6).

Consider that Armininians today still try to peddle the lie that man is not dead by his sin in Eden, just like their father the devil.

Adam and Eve, just like Arminians today, sewed fig leaves together in their own vain attempt to cover their terrible sin (Gen 3:7).

It showed itself in the New Testament with proud Jews and skeptical Greeks (Luk 4:25-29; John 6:64-66; 8:33-34; Rom 3:5,8; 9:14,19).

Pelagius, a Welsh monk, began the systematic spread of Pelagianism, an early version of Arminianism, around the early 400’s.

He denied original sin, a depraved nature, representation by either Adam or Christ, and the need for special grace to be saved.

He held the innocence of human children, man’s freedom of will, and the possibility of achieving perfection in this life. Augustine stood up against him. google to read.....

The Roman Catholics declared very Arminian principles at the Council of Trent in 1546 i.e. maintaining freewill and sacramentalism.
Read the anathemas pronounced in the Sixth Session of Trent against God’s grace in salvation and the freewill of man. Click here.

James Arminius (1560-1609) began the systematic spread of Arminianism in the early 1600s, as he rebelled against state Calvinism.

As a university professor in Leiden, Arminius questioned Calvin’s theology in several points, publishing and preaching against it.

In 1610, his followers issued a remonstrance to the government of Holland against the Calvinistic doctrine of the state church.

Man is not so corrupted by sin that he is unable to cooperate with God in performing conditions for his salvation to eternal life.

Man’s election to salvation is conditional upon God forseeing his faith and perseverance and confirming him thereby to eternal life.

Jesus Christ’s death potentially provided for the salvation of all men upon conditions, but it did not surely secure salvation for any.

Man is able to resist the work of the Holy Spirit in applying the effects of Christ’s death to men, as salvation is only an offer.

The conditions for final salvation include continuing in faith and good works until death, for sin will cause you to lose salvation.

Since Arminius, John Wesley, Charles Finney, D.L. Moody, Billy Graham, Jack Hyles, Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, and many more past and present like them have taught decisional regeneration as the deciding issue that renders the love of God and death of Christ effective.

Conclusion: you can have your work gospel that does not exalt Jesus Christ, but puts man in control and the crown of glory on his head, not Christ's, where it only belongs.
This mostly copy/pasted post is a mess! The first several sentences are disjointed half-statements that make no sense and make claims that are left to float with no support or even context for that matter and the rest is a copy/paste job that not 10% of the people who encounter this post will even read.


You could have just effectively stated in a single sentence...


Both Calvinism and Arminianism are false doctrines.
 

Logikos

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You have a strong emphasis on being born again. We are all born into this world as sinners, with the fallen nature of our father Adam. As Adam goes, so go we.
God is just! Therefore, the doctrine of Original Sin (as normally taught) is false!

Ezekiel 18 (the whole chapter)
Ezekiel 18:1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:​
‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,​
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?​
3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.​
4 “Behold, all souls are Mine;​
The soul of the father​
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;​
The soul who sins shall die.​
5 But if a man is just​
And does what is lawful and right;......​
.....9 If he has walked in My statutes​
And kept My judgments faithfully—​
He is just;​
He shall surely live!”​
Says the Lord God.​

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.​
Romans 7: 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.​
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
Once again, God is just! Therefore the doctrine of Original Sin is false!

QED
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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Thanks for your testimony....if it makes sense to you and God, no problem, to me it’s confusing ...

Sorry..nowhere in Gods word does it say we “ chose”to be Born of the Spirit..that would be impossible.imo.

Spirit gives birth to spirit?

You said..So did I chose to be born again. Yes, but it was not until God said OK. Not until God knew my heart was ready.

Please show me scripture that says this please?
Rita...

Listen up.

By choice did you always want to be saved or would you have been happy to be.... as John Calvin said

This is an actualy link that I copied part from.... It is on John Calvins beliefs.... and is on predestination according to Calvin..... and none is man made ideas and certainly not mine


So would you have been happy to be

"

Predestination According to Calvin​

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death (180, 184).” Calvin was careful to distinguish the predestination of individuals from the corporate election of nations such as Israel (185). He argued that an explanation of predestination is only complete when it includes the election of individuals

Now, I sincerely doubt that you or anyone on this forum desires to be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death by God.

I had hell fire and damnation talk all around me as a child. Family, friends, and even hinted at in church on rare occasion.

So when my denomination said at age 12 or 13 if you believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for your (my) sins on the cross you are saved and going to heaven... dont you think that is what I wanted.....


But there was never any talk of being born again.... there never was any talk of being spirit filled and those who claimed that were charismatic... an my church was not so it was only for them.

It was just assumed that when someone said born again that meant that that person was saved... same as me.
I know you cannot understand this. I know if you dont see it in the bible yourself you believe it is a lie.

But I can assure you that every single different denomination there is from the RCC to the Messianic Jews
who read the same bible as YOU do can and will tell you their beliefs are founded right there in those pages.... even the Preterists who claim Jesus came in 70AD....

I have a man who knows the bible better then you and me and JBO combined and he is certain it is right there.... Do you want me to have him contact you?

Try being on the receiving end of 9 members of one church who flat out said they doubted I was saved...because to them only baptism saves. That was me within the past 10 years.

If you cannot understand that is fine, but to just say show me in the bible... with no regard of any other source... Well, John Calvin had some kind of source to make the statement God ... “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death.

And my expletive denomination has bided by his teaching for centuries. I DONT

I think we have exhausted this subject.

Have a good day
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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This mostly copy/pasted post is a mess! The first several sentences are disjointed half-statements that make no sense and make claims that are left to float with no support or even context for that matter and the rest is a copy/paste job that not 10% of the people who encounter this post will even read.


You could have just effectively stated in a single sentence...


Both Calvinism and Arminianism are false doctrines.
:Thumbsup::Thumbsup:
 

Ritajanice

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Rita...

Listen up.

By choice did you always want to be saved or would you have been happy to be.... as John Calvin said
Listen..I’ve already given my testimony.lines up with Gods word.
This is an actualy link that I copied part from.... It is on John Calvins beliefs.... and is on predestination according to Calvin..... and none is man made ideas and certainly not mine


So would you have been happy to be

I’m not in the slightest bit interested in what you copied and pasted of John Calvin.

I have found most people who have no spiritual knowledge or understanding of being chosen/ predestined by God, to become his Born Again child.....they always play the John Calvin card...now, what that’s saying about their own eternal security with Christ....I have no idea...I just knew from day one of being Born Again, I was set free from all my sins, by the grace and mercy of God...that’s all I have to say on the matter.
"

Predestination According to Calvin​

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death (180, 184).” Calvin was careful to distinguish the predestination of individuals from the corporate election of nations such as Israel (185). He argued that an explanation of predestination is only complete when it includes the election of individuals

Now, I sincerely doubt that you or anyone on this forum desires to be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death by God.

I had hell fire and damnation talk all around me as a child. Family, friends, and even hinted at in church on rare occasion.

So when my denomination said at age 12 or 13 if you believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for your (my) sins on the cross you are saved and going to heaven... dont you think that is what I wanted.....


But there was never any talk of being born again.... there never was any talk of being spirit filled and those who claimed that were charismatic... an my church was not so it was only for them.

It was just assumed that when someone said born again that meant that that person was saved... same as me.
I know you cannot understand this. I know if you dont see it in the bible yourself you believe it is a lie.

But I can assure you that every single different denomination there is from the RCC to the Messianic Jews
who read the same bible as YOU do can and will tell you their beliefs are founded right there in those pages.... even the Preterists who claim Jesus came in 70AD....

I have a man who knows the bible better then you and me and JBO combined and he is certain it is right there.... Do you want me to have him contact you?

Try being on the receiving end of 9 members of one church who flat out said they doubted I was saved...because to them only baptism saves. That was me within the past 10 years.

If you cannot understand that is fine, but to just say show me in the bible... with no regard of any other source... Well, John Calvin had some kind of source to make the statement God ... “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death.

And my expletive denomination has bided by his teaching for centuries. I DONT

I think we have exhausted this subject.

Have a good day
 

Red Baker

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This mostly copy/pasted post is a mess! The first several sentences are disjointed half-statements that make no sense and make claims that are left to float with no support or even context for that matter and the rest is a copy/paste job that not 10% of the people who encounter this post will even read.


You could have just effectively stated in a single sentence...


Both Calvinism and Arminianism are false doctrines.
I have many writings stored on my computer that I have written, that I can copy and paste, some a mixture from my notes over years from others~besides, if it is truth, who cares how one shares it with others. If it wrong then prove it.

Calvinism does have some flaws, but much less than Arminianism~you and I both belong to one of these camps, not totally but overall, it is the only two known by all who debates theology.

So, why do you not prove that you are not of the Arminian camp, pretty sure you are, most likely very deep into it.

You are welcome to copy and paste you understanding, no problem with me.

You could have just effectively stated in a single sentence...
I doubt that...but, if that is your method, which quite often it is with men like you, then I understand why you said what you did.
 
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Red Baker

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God is just! Therefore, the doctrine of Original Sin (as normally taught) is false!

Ezekiel 18 (the whole chapter)
Ezekiel 18:1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:​
‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,​
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?​
3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.​
4 “Behold, all souls are Mine;​
The soul of the father​
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;​
The soul who sins shall die.​
5 But if a man is just​
And does what is lawful and right;......​
.....9 If he has walked in My statutes​
And kept My judgments faithfully—​
He is just;​
He shall surely live!”​
Says the Lord God.​

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.​
Romans 7: 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.​
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
Quoting Ezekiel 18 along with Romans 5:18, shown just how incontinence men like you are and how confuse you are! Romans 5:18 should show you that a another sense must be put on Ezekiel 18 than the one you desired to put on those verses! You actually did my work for me~thank you !

You quoted Romans 7:8...why? what does that verse has to do with the doctrine of original sin? Let me tell you~Romans seven establishes original sin! Folks like you makes my job so much easier, you do the work for us to expose your ignorance.

Once again, God is just! Therefore the doctrine of Original Sin is false!
Well, you do did a great job of proving it!

Btw, God is just, but what does this has to do with what you are attempting to prove?