CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

[Robert Pate]

This here shows Christ came only for the children of God
Christ came for the children to save them, the people of God, the ones God foreknew as His people.

“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

The Bible plainly says that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world: but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that does not believe is condemned already" John 3:17-18.

Your lack of understanding of the scriptures has led you into believing the lie of Calvinism.

"God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son" John 3:16. Salvation has been provided for everyone. But nothing is ours until it is received, Hebrews 2:9.

 

[Robert Pate]

The whole discussion though is WHY do people believe in Christ, not that believers go to Heaven.

Because God did not create a race of robots. Everyone is free to choose life, others are free to choose death.

 

[JBO]

Oh Jim~regeneration is biblical doctrine taught all through the word of God!

Regeneration is so vitally important, and the Holy Spirit is the One who creates a new man within us.

It is never even mentioned in the OT. There is nothing ever said about a new man within us in the OT. Regeneration is strictly a NT doctrine.

Anyone who was a believer in the Old Testament had to be regenerate before they would be a believer.

Says the one who believes in the false doctrine of Total Depravity. There is nothing in the Bible that says that.

 

[Scott Downey]

Because God did not create a race of robots. Everyone is free to choose life, others are free to choose death.

Everyone in their ignorance of God and Christ follows the devil and fulfils their lists of the flesh thereof as they are flesh and not spiritually alive to God. They follow the choices of their natures. That is their freewill choice.

No one can know Christ unless granted by God to come to Christ. Then they receive Him as God has made them spiritually alive.
That which is flesh is flesh! Those in the flesh only have ENMITY against God, and they cannot undo that enmity that is of their flesh nature without God giving to them spiritual regeneration. They follow the DEVIL, not God.

God is a spirit, and you must worship God in spirit and in truth.

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Titus 3 shows that all once were these things of the flesh.

. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


Honestly people believe the scriptures.

 

[Scott Downey]

If you do not believe the scriptures, given to us by God, you will believe another voice. A different Jesus and you will be like the disciples who departed from Christ. Christ caused offense in some by the things He said.
6 And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.”

John 5
41 “I do not receive honor from men.
42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you.
43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.

 

[Robert Pate]

Everyone in their ignorance of God and Christ follows the devil and fulfils their lists of the flesh thereof as they are flesh and not spiritually alive to God. They follow the choices of their natures. That is their freewill choice.

No one can know Christ unless granted by God to come to Christ. Then they receive Him as God has made them spiritually alive.
That which is flesh is flesh! Those in the flesh only have ENMITY against God, and they cannot undo that enmity that is of their flesh nature without God giving to them spiritual regeneration. They follow the DEVIL, not God.

God is a spirit, and you must worship God in spirit and in truth.

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Titus 3 shows that all once were these things of the flesh.

. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


Honestly people believe the scriptures.

Everyone has a free will. They can accept Christ or they can reject Christ. But God does not force anyone to believe or to reject. Salvation has already been provided for everyone. Hebrews 2:9. If they reject, maybe they should go to hell.

 

[Scott Downey]

Everyone has a free will. They can accept Christ or they can reject Christ. But God does not force anyone to believe or to reject. Salvation has already been provided for everyone. Hebrews 2:9. If they reject, maybe they should go to hell.

Yes, well people chose to do evil, as that is their nature seeing they follow the DEVIL. You don't understand that it seems.
All people are by nature children of wrath. Naturally born people are only flesh and blood. Their father is the devil and they desire to do the devil's will.
And
Romans 7
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

 

[Scott Downey]

This is true of all people before God makes them alive, they were dead in sins.
ALL without exception
Dispute that too,

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes, well people chose to do evil, as that is their nature seeing they follow the DEVIL. You don't understand that it seems.
All people are by nature children of wrath. Naturally born people are only flesh and blood. Their father is the devil and they desire to do the devil's will.
And
Romans 7
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

True, all are born after Adam. And need to hear and believe the Gospel and be born again, Ephesians 1:13.

 

[Scott Downey]

Psalm 14, the entire world is under sin.

The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.

 

[Scott Downey]

Romans 3,
No one does good, no not one.
And it is a good thing to obey God's command to repent and believe in His Son.
No one will believe unless God does His work in their heart by making them spiritually alive, then they are open to being taught about Christ, otherwise they continually rebuff Him, being of the flesh and not the spirit.

All Have Sinned​

9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “Their throat is an open [d]tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

 

[Scott Downey]

The 'they' of verse 45 are the people God gives to Christ in v37
Them that believe not, v36, were not given by God to Christ, which is why they don't believe.

John 6
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Rejected by His Own​

41 The Jews then [g]complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [j]in Me has everlasting life.

 

[brightfame52]

I don’t believe “ you” ..I agree with you there.LOL.

Im a witness for Christ and His Gospel, so thats that !

 

[Robert Pate]

Romans 3,
No one does good, no not one.
And it is a good thing to obey God's command to repent and believe in His Son.
No one will believe unless God does His work in their heart by making them spiritually alive, then they are open to being taught about Christ, otherwise they continually rebuff Him, being of the flesh and not the spirit.

All Have Sinned​

9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “Their throat is an open [d]tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Yes, all men are sinners. However, God has not and did not abandon the fallen human race.

He sent his Son Jesus Christ into the world as our substitute and representative, So, that all that want to be saved can be saved by doing nothing more than calling on Christ to save them. "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13. He is waiting to hear from you.

 

[Scott Downey]

John 5:44
How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?

Romans 3
10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;

11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.

They cannot believe as no one seeks for God.

 

[Robert Pate]

John 5:44
How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?

Romans 3
10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;

11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.

They cannot believe as no one seeks for God.

John 5:44
How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?

Romans 3
10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;

11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.

They cannot believe as no one seeks for God.

I sought him while I was the worst sinner ever. He heard me and sent his Holy Spirit to convince me of my need for Jesus Christ. That was over 50 years ago. I haven't been the same since. He is waiting for you to call upon him, Romans 10:13.

 

[Scott Downey]

I sought him while I was the worst sinner ever. He heard me and sent his Holy Spirit to convince me of my need for Jesus Christ. That was over 50 years ago. I haven't been the same since. He is waiting for you to call upon him, Romans 10:13.

If you truly did, then you were regenerated already as scripture says differently, it says no one seeks for God.
That means no one seeks for God unless God changes their heart so that they are of God.

It is why John 8:47 says "He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Personal experience being subjective is no good for teaching truths of God. This is why the Spirit of God gave us the scriptures.

Anyhow, this is the truth.

 

[Scott Downey]

People disputing scriptures, I can only show them scriptures, God has to make scripture real to them as in the word is alive and active
.
AMP
For the word of God is living and active and full of power [making it operative, energizing, and effective]. It is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating as far as the division of the soul and spirit [the completeness of a person], and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart.

 

[Robert Pate]

If you truly did, then you were regenerated already as scripture says differently, it says no one seeks for God.
That means no one seeks for God unless God changes their heart so that they are of God.

It is why John 8:47 says "He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Personal experience being subjective is no good for teaching truths of God. This is why the Spirit of God gave us the scriptures.

Anyhow, this is the truth.

You mean that I had to be already saved to be saved? You need to think about that. There is no scripture that supports that.

In John 8:47 Jesus was speaking to the Christ rejecting Pharisees, not to the ordinary Jew. Read Matthew the 23rd chapter it is a terrible rebuke of the Pharisees. They thought that they were of God, but they were the worst of all hypocrites.

 

[JBO]

Everyone in their ignorance of God and Christ follows the devil and fulfils their lists of the flesh thereof as they are flesh and not spiritually alive to God. They follow the choices of their natures. That is their freewill choice.

And so arose the false teachings of Calvin. The absolute worst of it being the teaching of Total Depravity. That doctrine makes God the author of all sin.