OSAS being False Doctrine!

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Ritajanice

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John 3

New International Version

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus​

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[e] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[g]
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
 

L.A.M.B.

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THE ORIGIN OF OSAS: (Once Saved Always Saved)

OSAS can easily be traced back to John Calvin (1509-1564) from Synod of Dort under the description of the perseverance of the saints. But did you know that it, and other points of Calvinism, can be traced more than one thousand years earlier to Augustine of Hippo (354-430)?

This was the theme about which Augustine structured his thinking during the last half of his writing ministry. As he put it: whatsoever persons are through the riches of divine grace exempted from the original sentence of condemnation are undoubtedly brought to hear the Gospel, and when hearing they are caused to believe it, and are made likewise to endure to the end in the faith which works by love, and should they at any time to astray, they are recovered and set straight again. (Here are Election and Eternal Security.)

I like this it bears repeating.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Some ppl are so out of order, they aren't standing on any promises per his word .

It is all self willed by their thinking of "what I believe", regardless of what the word says.

Random plucking out of the word of God to justify their own fleshly carnality shows how little knowledge and understanding one has.

Frankly I would be ashamed to even put forth MY OWN UNDERSTANDING, if I walked as such !
Do you have anything to say other than to attack people?

these same words can be said to you. But people chose not to say them.. They do not support your case. And make you look bad..

just saying
 
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L.A.M.B.

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Yep, and both John Calvin and Martin Luther were greatly influenced by this guy's writings... rather than studying God's Word.
Same as many today....rather than study the word for themselves. Maybe they do not know they are receiving another mans junk.....we can only pray the Spirit of the Lord will bring a desire to their hearts, to know the truth of the plainly written word, to not be deceived.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Same as many today....rather than study the word for themselves. Maybe they do not know they are receiving another mans junk.....we can only pray the Spirit of the Lord will bring a desire to their hearts, to know the truth of the plainly written word, to not be deceived.
You should ask yourself the same question.

What happened to you?
 
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Ritajanice

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John 3
Berean Standard BiblePar ▾
Jesus and Nicodemus
(Genesis 22:1–10; Romans 5:6–11)
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews.2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.”
3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.a
4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘Youb must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”





Matthew 5:10-12
“Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


2 Corinthians 13:5
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
 

Ritajanice

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@Eternally Grateful .



What the Bible says about Vindictiveness
(From Forerunner Commentary)

Romans 12:17-20

Paul's counsel to the congregation in Rome (Romans 12:17-20; 13:8-10) is clearly in line with what Jesus taught. He insists that we must never allow vindictiveness, the desire to get even with someone for a suffered wrong, to drive us.
In the same vein, Peter taught that we must not repay evil with evil, insult with insult, but we must bless (I Peter 3:8-9). Why are we called to react this way? Because if we want to be in God's Kingdom, it can only happen without the spirit of murder dwelling in us, and those evil retaliations are the spirit of murder. We are not to take vengeance because God has retained that responsibility to Himself. Is that not the way it should be? Only He fully knows and understands every facet of the circumstances and can judge perfectly. By the way, Paul addresses the issue of retaliation four times in Romans 12, which begins by stating that we are to be living sacrifices and not to conform to this world's ways.
The picture should be clear. Somebody must be willing to do this if there will be peace. Jesus set the example: He, refusing to strike back, died for the entire world. Christ's non-retaliatory remedy is ultimately for everybody's benefit, but until He returns, the standards He set can be met and lived only by those who, like Jesus, have the Spirit of God, are living by faith, and are enabled to keep God's ways by God Himself.
 

CadyandZoe

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THE ORIGIN OF OSAS: (Once Saved Always Saved)

OSAS can easily be traced back to John Calvin (1509-1564) from Synod of Dort under the description of the perseverance of the saints. But did you know that it, and other points of Calvinism, can be traced more than one thousand years earlier to Augustine of Hippo (354-430)?

This was the theme about which Augustine structured his thinking during the last half of his writing ministry. As he put it: whatsoever persons are through the riches of divine grace exempted from the original sentence of condemnation are undoubtedly brought to hear the Gospel, and when hearing they are caused to believe it, and are made likewise to endure to the end in the faith which works by love, and should they at any time to astray, they are recovered and set straight again. (Here are Election and Eternal Security.)

I like this it bears repeating.
I know. I read this in Wikipedia also. It isn't true. John Calvin taught the "Perseverance of the Saints", which Wikipedia mistakenly labeled as "Once Saved Always Saved." I suspect that the phrase "once saved" emerged from the evangelistic movements of the 19th and 20th centuries when evangelists were "pushing for the decision." Based on a misapplication of Romans 10:9-10 (known as TNT) it was assumed that once a person believed in their heart and confessed Jesus Christ, that person was "saved."

The doctrine of eternal security is based on Apostolic teaching concerning the role of the Holy Spirit in salvation. Our Apostle Paul succinctly described the situation in his epistle to the Romans.

The inheritance of salvation is granted when the Spirit of God gives life to the mortal body. Paul associates this with the condition associated with those walking by the Spirit.

Romans 8:9-11
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

As we see from the passage above, Paul argues that if certain markers are true about me, then certain outcomes are guaranteed.

Markers:
  • In the Spirit
  • Spirit of God dwells in you
  • having the Spirit of Christ
  • Christ is in you
Guaranteed Outcomes:
  • The spirit is alive
  • will be raised from the dead
  • mortal body is given life.
The apostle teaches us to look for markers in ourselves and if these markers are present, then we can be assured that our spirit is alive, that we will be raised physically from death, and life will be given to our mortal bodies. Although these two concepts sound similar they are not the same. The first talks about physical life; the second talks about living a good, righteous, and true life.
 

L.A.M.B.

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I know. I read this in Wikipedia also. It isn't true. John Calvin taught the "Perseverance of the Saints", which Wikipedia mistakenly labeled as "Once Saved Always Saved." I suspect that the phrase "once saved" emerged from the evangelistic movements of the 19th and 20th centuries when evangelists were "pushing for the decision." Based on a misapplication of Romans 10:9-10 (known as TNT) it was assumed that once a person believed in their heart and confessed Jesus Christ, that person was "saved."

The doctrine of eternal security is based on Apostolic teaching concerning the role of the Holy Spirit in salvation. Our Apostle Paul succinctly described the situation in his epistle to the Romans.

The inheritance of salvation is granted when the Spirit of God gives life to the mortal body. Paul associates this with the condition associated with those walking by the Spirit.

Romans 8:9-11
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

As we see from the passage above, Paul argues that if certain markers are true about me, then certain outcomes are guaranteed.

Markers:
  • In the Spirit
  • Spirit of God dwells in you
  • having the Spirit of Christ
  • Christ is in you
Guaranteed Outcomes:
  • The spirit is alive
  • will be raised from the dead
  • mortal body is given life.
The apostle teaches us to look for markers in ourselves and if these markers are present, then we can be assured that our spirit is alive, that we will be raised physically from death, and life will be given to our mortal bodies. Although these two concepts sound similar they are not the same. The first talks about physical life; the second talks about living a good, righteous, and true life.
I did not get this from wikipedia, here is my source;

trcm.sundaystreamswebsi...
https://trcm.sundaystreamswe...

THE ORIGIN OF OSAS: (Once Saved Always Saved) it's a PDF.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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I know. I read this in Wikipedia also. It isn't true. John Calvin taught the "Perseverance of the Saints", which Wikipedia mistakenly labeled as "Once Saved Always Saved." I suspect that the phrase "once saved" emerged from the evangelistic movements of the 19th and 20th centuries when evangelists were "pushing for the decision." Based on a misapplication of Romans 10:9-10 (known as TNT) it was assumed that once a person believed in their heart and confessed Jesus Christ, that person was "saved."

The doctrine of eternal security is based on Apostolic teaching concerning the role of the Holy Spirit in salvation. Our Apostle Paul succinctly described the situation in his epistle to the Romans.

The inheritance of salvation is granted when the Spirit of God gives life to the mortal body. Paul associates this with the condition associated with those walking by the Spirit.

Romans 8:9-11
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

As we see from the passage above, Paul argues that if certain markers are true about me, then certain outcomes are guaranteed.

Markers:
  • In the Spirit
  • Spirit of God dwells in you
  • having the Spirit of Christ
  • Christ is in you
Guaranteed Outcomes:
  • The spirit is alive
  • will be raised from the dead
  • mortal body is given life.
The apostle teaches us to look for markers in ourselves and if these markers are present, then we can be assured that our spirit is alive, that we will be raised physically from death, and life will be given to our mortal bodies. Although these two concepts sound similar they are not the same. The first talks about physical life; the second talks about living a good, righteous, and true life.
Amen,

Here is the real warning the scripture gives you.

"IF the spirit of God is in you"

The question should not be can we lose the gift of eternal life. It should be do we have it to begin with
 

mailmandan

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I remember reading an article in "The Ex-Catholic Journal" years ago that said, "some of the writings attributed to the Church Fathers have been found to be forgeries, while others have been taken out of context." Doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the papacy, purgatory, transubstantiation and infant baptism are alleged to be supported in these early writings." I hear Roman Catholics quote the Church Fathers a lot in an effort to support their doctrines. That is a red flag for me.

The article went on to say that "most of the copies of copies of copies of the Church Fathers that we possess today were copied during the time that the Roman Catholic church controlled the flow of literature in Europe." That would explain a lot. We do not have any original copies of their writings, only copies of copies of copies which were copied and preserved by the Roman Catholic church. I trust in Scripture over fallible writings from fallible men, even if these were early writings.

I read an interesting article on the Justforcatholics.org website in regard to the Church Fathers and water baptism:

As a matter of historical fact, there was a general consensus among the Fathers that baptism was the instrument of regeneration and washing away of sin. That settles the question for the Roman Catholic, who is also amazed that Evangelical Christians have the audacity to disagree with the Fathers on this matter. It may come as a surprise that Catholics too do not follow the practice of the early church in the administration of this sacrament. For example it was common practice that the candidate was immersed three times, whereas the modern Catholic rite consists of pouring water on the head. Before baptism, the candidate was anointed with "oil of exorcism" while the presbyter prayed, "Let all spirits flee far away from you." Apart from the fact that there is no scriptural warrant for this anointing, they were also mistaken in their belief that this oil served for the remission of sins even before baptism:
Now this is blessed by the high priest for the remission of sins, and the first preparation for baptism. For he calls thus upon the unbegotten God, the Father of Christ, the King of all sensible and intelligible natures, that He would sanctify the oil in the name of the Lord Jesus, and impart to it spiritual grace and efficacious strength, the remission of sins, and the first preparation for the confession of baptism, that so the candidate for baptism, when he is anointed may be freed from all ungodliness, and may become worthy of initiation, according to the command of the Only-begotten (Apostolic Constitutions, XLII)

During baptism, the candidates had to remove their clothing and stand naked in the water. The newly baptized was not allowed to take a bath for a whole week. We do not feel obliged to follow the fathers in their unscriptural inventions, changing the simple ordinance of Christ into a superstition, not to mention their disregard for public decency. (See Tertullian, The Crown; St Hippolytus of Rome, The Apostolic Tradition). These are the same people who insisted on baptismal regeneration.​


Roman Catholics are always attacking salvation by "faith alone" and instead teach salvation by faith "and works" yet the Church Fathers do not seem to unanimously support their claim:

Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Ignatius: "His cross, and his death, and his resurrection, and the faith which is through him, are my unpolluted muniments; and in these, through your prayers, I am willing to be justified (Epistle to Philadelphians). Note: "muniments" are title deeds, documents giving evidence of legal ownership of something.

Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).

Justin Martyr: "No longer by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of a heifer...are sins purged, but by faith, through the blood of Christ and his death, who died on this very account (Dialogue with Trypho). "God gave his own Son the ransom for us...for what, save his righteousness, could cover our sins. In whom was it possible that we, transgressors and ungodly as we were, could be justified, save in the Son of God alone? ...O unexpected benefit, that the transgression of many should be hidden in one righteous Person and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors" (Letter to Diognetus).

Ireneus: "Through the obedience of one man who first was born from the Virgin, many should be justified and receive salvation."

Cyprian: "If Abraham believed in God and it was imputed to him for righteousness, then each one, who believes in God and lives by faith, is found to be a righteous person."

Athanasius: "Not by these (i.e. human efforts) but by faith, a man is justified as was Abraham."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Ambrose: "Without the works of the law, to an ungodly man, that is to say, a Gentile, believing in Christ, his "faith is imputed for righteousness" as also it was to Abraham."

Origen: "Through faith, without the works of the law, the dying thief was justified, because...the Lord inquired not what he had previously wrought, nor yet waited for his performance of some work after he should have believe; but...he took him unto himself for a companion, justified through his confession alone."

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "What then did God do? He made (says Paul) a righteous Person (Christ) to be a sinner, in order that he might make sinners righteous... it is the righteousness of God, when we are justified, not by works...but by grace, where all sin is made to vanish away."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to Faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to Faith alone, is blessed."

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Anselm: "Do you believe that you cannot be saved but by the death of Christ? Go, then, and ...put all your confidence in this death alone. If God shall say to you, "You are a sinner", say to him, "I place the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between me and my sin.""

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."


So just like Christian theologians today, the Church Fathers may be right about certain things and wrong about other things. We must look to Scripture alone as the infallible word of God and not the words of fallible men, regardless of what age we are in.​
 

mailmandan

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Amen,

Here is the real warning the scripture gives you.

"IF the spirit of God is in you"

The question should not be can we lose the gift of eternal life. It should be do we have it to begin with
Amen! Since it's common to find genuine Christians and "nominal" Christians mixed together all claiming to be genuine Christians that is a critical IF which brings confirmation for genuine Christians and a warning for "nominal" (or pseudo) Christians. :Thumbsup:
 

mailmandan

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Romans 8:8 - then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now IF anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And IF Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But IF the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

What a wonderful promise for genuine believers who have the Spirit of Christ! :)

Paul is fully aware of pseudo-Christians and does not want to give them false assurance. Hence, the IF.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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The funny thing is, from what I have found, Calvin never used the term OSAS. Yet it is attributed to him. And the hate that is directed to people who trust God to fulfill his promise in them, be they Calvinist or not, is attributed to the hate against Calvinism.

This is Seen over and over.

I believe there are two forms of OSAS.

The doctrine of tulip, or "perseverance of the saints" this is the calvinist doctrine that many (myself included) do not agree with.

Then their is just the belief that once a person is saved, they will always be saved (also known as eternal security.

Eternal security is based on these principles

1. All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.
2. Because of the above we are all spiritually dead, separated from Christ, and this death is insurmountable. we can not help ourselves. Our fate is set in stone, unless God acts..
3. We also have the fact in Adam we all Die. Some people call this original sin, but no matter what we call it. we are born dead in Adam, Our head.
4. For this reason. as Jesus said, if we want to enter the kingdom of God. we must become poor in spirit (literally bankrupt) Or as Jesus said, we must be born again. Unless we are born again, we will remain in our dead state. and nothing we do can change that.
- We can not be good enough. We already have fallen short. no matter how good we can become on our own, we will still fall short.
- No religious work of any type (circumcision/Baptism/Eucharist/Confession/going to church etc etc)
5. Jesus tells us how to be born again

As Moses raised the serpent, so too must the son of man be raised that whoever BELIEVES in him will never perish but has eternal life.

The people who looked up looked up because they trusted God. and they were saved. Those who did not did not do it in unbelief, and they died.

This new birth happens in a moment of time. The moment they believe, the moment like the tax collector. they call on the name of God and request for him to have mercy on them.

6. It is at this moment, that we receive the following

- we, who were dead in trespasses and sin were made alive in Christ. (eph 2: 1 - 5, Col 2: 13, )
- we shall not come to judgment, but have passed from death to life (john 5: 24)
- we have been given every spiritual blessing (eph 1)
- We have been given the spirit as a pledge or guarantee until ressurection day (eph 1: 13 - 14, 2 cor 1: 22,. eph 4: 30)\
- We have been given the water that flows to eternal life (john 4)
- We shall Never perish, we will live forever (eternal life) John 3, 4, 5, 6
- We have Gods assurance, that he who began a good work, will complete it (phil 1: 6)
- we have no condemnation (John 3, Romans 8)
- We are in Christ - (numerous)
I can go on and on, but I hope people see the general standard that those who are born again, are not born again temporarily but forever.

in other words. Once a person is saved, by being born again, they will always be saved, or eternal security.

It is this knowledge that keeps us believing (1 John 5)
It is lack of knowledge that leads to legalism, Self righteousness, and a lack of security, and has caused many to walk away.

one thing to note. My points 1 - 3 . It does not change after we are saved. Apart from grace, We would still be dead, because we are still sinning and falling short. We can not earn the gift of salvation. hence we can not unearn it.

If we can unearn it, then by defenition, we must earn it
 
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L.A.M.B.

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I had no trouble seeing & downloading this 7 pg. document.

Sorry
 
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