Christians are not under any laws, nor are they subject to them, because "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Without the law you don't have a Catholic religion. Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. It is not possible for you to live by faith alone, because you are void of the Holy Spirit.
Catholic Preist Sings Song About Lucifer
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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That's the problem with you, Robert. WHEN did CHRIST say that HE was the "end of the Law?" Here's a clue...
...he didn't.
Christ said that he did NOT come to ABOLISH the law. What part of that do you NOT understand?
You are dismissing Christ's very words in favor of words that are NOT Christ's. Either Christ was lying, or the rest of the New Testament is lying OR...
YOU don't understand correctly what Christ's words meant.
CHRIST said, he didn't come to ABOLISH the law. So how do you reconcile the other verses that said that he supposedly 'abolished' the law?
You gonna take Paul's words over Christ's?
Or maybe you're not interpreting Paul's words...correctly?
Paul was an apostle of Jesus Christ. Paul received the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:11-12. When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the Old Covenant of rules, laws and religion, Matthew 27:51. Do you really believe that Paul is a liar? If you do then you are without hope.
I got born again and filled with the Holy Spirit... the the Lord Himself made me like Jesus!
2 Corinthians 5:17-21
If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; L00K, all things are become new.
And all things are of God, Who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To know, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be reconciled to God.
For He has made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.
That's not true... we are not under the old testament law, but now we are under the Law of Christ aka the Law of Liberty
In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.
Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.
Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Law of Christ
The phrase "the law of Christ" appears only in Galatians 6:2, although it is implied by the wording of 1 Corinthians 9:21 as well. In both places, its precise meaning is difficult to fix. In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).
He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.
By way of illustration Paul says in verses 19-23 that he adopts certain Jewish customs when among Jews, although he is not under the Jewish law, and that he adopts some Gentile customs when among Gentiles, although he is not without the law of God but rather "in the law of Christ" (ennomos Christou).
It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession.
Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB). If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands"). Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).
Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).
Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).
In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident. Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.
It's not about whether PAUL was a liar.
Was CHRIST a liar, when he said that he did not come to "abolish " the law?
Jesus came and kept all of the OT law so it was fulfilled.... and then He established the Law of Christ which is what true Christians live under in the New testament.
Those trying to keep the OT law have rejected Jesus Christ and won't be joining Him in eternity... unless they repent and start living under the New Testament
There are no laws, rules or religion for those that are in Christ. To be under the law or subject to it is to under a curse, Galatians 3:10. The law does not make one righteous, the law promotes sin, Romans 7:8. If anything we should be dead to the law and alive to Christ. The Pharisees were law keepers, they all went to hell, see Matthew the 23rd chapter. "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. The reason this is true is because Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. You are feeding a dead horse.
Jesus purpose was to provide salvation for the whole world, John 3:17. Fulfilling the law and abolishing it was part of that. Where there is no law there is no sin, Romans 4:15.
Wow. You really don't get it. You seem to figure that there is "no law", therefore we can do whatEVER we want? And there will be no SIN?
So someone can murder someone, because murder is under the Old Testament...Old Covenant "law"...murder isn't sinful OR a crime. because HEY! It's under Old Testament "rules"!
You scare me, Robert. You really do...
You are led by laws, rules and religion. I am led by the Holy Spirit, John 16:13. I received the Holy Spirit when I first trusted in Christ to save me. I don't believe that you are trusting in Christ to save you, instead you are trusting in the teachings of the Catholic church to save you. Worse yet you think that Paul is a liar.
If you were led by the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't be posting as you do. The Holy Sprit doesn't condemn, which is what YOU do.
That's false doctrine!
That's speaking of the OT law... not the Law of Christ which is taughf under the New Testament.
Universalism is satanic and is obviously false doctrine.
If that were true, you've be living under the Law of Christ aka the Law of Liberty.
Those that reject the leading of the Holy Spirit are not under the Law of Christ aka the Law of Liberty.... therefore they are no longer saved.... unless they repent and abide IN Christ having turned away from their sin.
Since you are a follow of antinomianism... you probably believe that one can live in sin and still be saved right?
I keep seeing these arguments, and think all of you are saying the same thing. Even Robert. He just doesn't like to say keep the law.
We are saved. We become new creatures. We want to do His will. The thing is every sin is covered under the 10 Commandments. But if we keep them without Jesus, we are not keeping them. Robert thinks they are done away with. Written on the wall, yes impossible --written on the heart now
We are saved. We become new creatures. We want to do His will. The thing is every sin is covered under the 10 Commandments. But if we keep them without Jesus, we are not keeping them. Robert thinks they are done away with. Written on the wall, yes impossible --written on the heart now
Philip James
Well-Known Member
I have been led by the Holy Spirit, since before I can remember. I have always trusted in Christ to save me from my earliest memories.
Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."
Though Him,
And in Him,
And with Him,
In the unity of the Holy Spirit,
All Glory and Honour are Yours!
Almighty Father!
For ever and ever!
All are welcome to come to the Wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!
Pax et Bonum
Only those that have been born again by the Gospel are welcome to the wedding feast. Those that are trying to enter the sheep fold through works and obedience to the law are not welcome.
You are allowing your religion to dictate what you believe instead of the bible. You can't figure out how one can be a sinner and still be saved. Paul referred to himself as a sinner many times. Even John said, "If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
well I dont know about you, but I was born again by the power of the Holy Spirit... but yes you are correct, one cannot come to the Feast unless they have been baptized..
but one soldier thrust his lance into his side, and immediately blood and water flowed out.
Pax et Bonum
Baptized? There is only one baptism that saves and that is when we were baptized into Christ, Romans 6:3-4.
That's laughable!
That's what satan wants people to believe!
In fact, that was satan's message to Adam and Eve... is that one can disobey God and not die spiritually (be separated from Him due to walking in darkness having departed from the Lord to do sin.)
You must have cut these verses out of your bible:
1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not
1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not
We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christians to sin and IF they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.
Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.
Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done
The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)
This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)
In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...
G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.
G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.
If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!
Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.
Question is... will you continue being a mocker of God???
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