OSAS being False Doctrine!

[Taken]

Does it? I don't think it does. I don't think God voids our will. But he does renew our minds,

Our JOB to continually effect the “RENEWING of our MINDS. (Using the “tools” HE GIVES US…(indwelling Spirit of Truth IN our NEW spirit, which He has. Re-birth from His SEED. )

The new man is being created. :) It begins with a new birth (from above.)

Created and Made are two different things.

In the Beginning…God CREATED “all things” that were EVER CREATED.

WHAT God Has CREATED, He thereafter MAKES those things have particular attributes / characteristics / similarities to other things / express differences from other things.

The CREATED things, were according to Gods IDEAS, Gods WILL, Gods PLEASURE.

The MAKING of the CREATED things, were EFFECTED according to THE MAKER…
Gods WORD whom God gave the name JESUS…the TRUTH, WAY, LIFE
And
Gods POWER whom God gave the Title
CHRIST MESSIAH…HOLY

Human men FAILED at maintaining their being MADE as God MADE them…
And thus the Lord God has OFFERED manKIND and OPTION to be “RE-MADE”…
With a New spirit of Gods seed, a New truth of Gods Truth…

Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said…

God created.
Gods Spirit (Power (who is called Christ) moved)
God said. (Gods Word, called Jesus)spoke.

Gen 5:
[1] This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Creating and Making effected.

Ezek 18:
[31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Re-MAKING of a Created thing.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[CadyandZoe]

Our JOB to continually effect the “RENEWING of our MINDS. (Using the “tools” HE GIVES US…(indwelling Spirit of Truth IN our NEW spirit, which He has. Re-birth from His SEED. )

Yes, of course. The question is whether God gives every human being these tools or does he give them exclusively to those whom he is saving?

And why wouldn't we use them?

Ezek 18:
[31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Re-MAKING of a Created thing.

Yes. Now, we have an interpretive question to ask. What is Ezekiel's expectation?

Moses makes a similar appeal to Israel in the book of Deuteronomy.

10:16 So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer.

Even so, Moses predicts a time in Israel's future when God will perform the circumcision himself.

30:6 “Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

What was Moses' expectation?

Ezekiel exhorted his people to make a new heart for themselves. And whether that is actually possible I don't know. Moses also exhorts his people to circumcise their hearts. And whether someone can actually do the job themselves is unclear to me. In any case. Both Ezekiel and Moses understand and predict that in order for God to restore his holy name, God will do the deed himself. God will give Israel a new heart and circumcise their heart so that they might live.

I have never heard that we can give ourselves the Spirit of God or the Spirit of Christ. But I do know that if the Father should bless me with such things that he promises to give life to my mortal body and etc.

Yes?

 

[Taken]

Yes, of course. The question is whether God gives every human being these tools or does he give them exclusively to those whom he is saving?

Yes. Saving requires the mans agreement, otherwise it is forced against a mans will.
Yes. Saving is a result of an Agreement between God and A man…According to Gods WAY…He Offers. He requires Acceptance According to His WAY…Man has the Option to accept or not. Acceptance includes specific Blessings FOR “that specific “ man.

And why wouldn't we use them?

I would suppose numerous reasons…From Ignorance of not understanding….to relying on Medical advice when a person is experiencing INNER CONFLICT (which is conflict between the hearts Truth and the Minds vulnerability to follow men, rather than Christ).

Yes. Now, we have an interpretive question to ask. What is Ezekiel's expectation?

Moses makes a similar appeal to Israel in the book of Deuteronomy.

10:16 So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer.

Even so, Moses predicts a time in Israel's future when God will perform the circumcision himself.

30:6 “Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

What was Moses' expectation?

Ezekiel exhorted his people to make a new heart for themselves. And whether that is actually possible I don't know. Moses also exhorts his people to circumcise their hearts. And whether someone can actually do the job themselves is unclear to me. In any case. Both Ezekiel and Moses understand and predict that in order for God to restore his holy name, God will do the deed himself. God will give Israel a new heart and circumcise their heart so that they might live.

God INTRODUCED Himself, His Word, His Way, His Truths….to mankind, little by little, bit by bit…and the Understanding of Gods KNOWLEDGE…comeS ONLY Directly from the Lord God….and typically LONG after the Knowledge is given a man.
Not much different what a man experiences day to day concerning ALL topics.

Early men Given Gods Word and the Task for telling other men…had a tough JOB…Moses…giving the Word of God to men who could not believe or understand …. Without what they demanded, which was to SEE GOD, so THEN they could Believe.
Fascinating prospect…since to LOOK upon God would cause their body’s to be consumed and dead!

Moses didn’t understand all the knowledge he was given…(as evidenced when he was told to tap his staff once, and he tapped it three times).

It’s the premise EVEN ALL OT teachers didn’t know the understanding Of Gods Word.

In the NT we find Jesus having selected men to learn From him, their wondering, believing, doubting believing, denying, and landing on BELIEF “AND” SUBMISSION unto Him…and thereafter THEY receiving UNDERSTANDING from the Lord God.

I presume many positioning themselves or being seated in a position for a man to TEACH the word of God, are themselves LACKING in GODS UNDERSTANDING…
(as will add as a side note, the public schools, the colleges, the universities, the world teaches following after philosophers is the key to understanding).

I have never heard that we can give ourselves the Spirit of God or the Spirit of Christ.

Me either. Gods Spirits ARE HIS, to give to whom He pleases).

But I do know that if the Father should bless me with such things that he promises to give life to my mortal body and etc.

Yes?

Agree.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

@CadyandZoe

Gods covenant with Abraham and his faithful offspring…Killing of a portion of flesh *foreskin) was a prelude…to bodily death freely given unto the Lord God and Gods works of giving a man a new Heart, with a new truth, and thereafter, a new seed, a new spirit, a new body.

A man cutting off the foreskin was called circumcision.
Gods spiritual works of cutting off the heart, (the mans OLD truth)….is the Circumcision Understanding Gods is speaking of…

Told in the OT, a brief blip…but the elaboration and understanding was much, much later.

Deut 10:
[16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.


ALL natural body’s LIFE MUST DIE, God requires the LIFE of man (which is the body’s BLOOD.).

No man can Receive a new BODY, without a death of his old body.

Natural body’s can not, will not, shall not LIVE forever…Yet a spirit born of Gods SEED shall live forever…and He has Promised a new Body, a vessel FOR that new spirit to dwell within. Forever. (Temporarily it is sufficient for us to Dwell IN Christ Jesus’ risen Body).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

Natural body’s can not, will not, shall not LIVE forever…Yet a spirit born of Gods SEED shall live forever…and He has Promised a new Body, a vessel FOR that new spirit to dwell within. Forever. (Temporarily it is sufficient for us to Dwell IN Christ Jesus’ risen Body).

That’s the Living word of God, that can never be erased....Amen!!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes. Saving requires the mans agreement, otherwise it is forced against a mans will.

What if agreement itself is an aspect of Salvation? What if God creates the agreement rather than forcing the agreement?

I realize that we don't typically think in these categories. But Paul seems to believe that creation continues throughout history. Consider Romans 9 where Paul defends God against the charge of injustice. He previously argued that God chose Jacob over Esau before the children were born, before they had a chance to do anything right or wrong. One might conclude from this that God is unjust or unfair. It appears that God's judgments are arbitrary. Paul defends God from the standpoint that God is our creator.

Romans 9:19-24

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

​

who are you, O man
In this passage, the Apostle asks the reader to contemplate their relationship with God. Who are we? What defines us? Paul suggests that we are like clay, and God is the potter. The potter has complete control over the clay, and can shape it into anything He desires. This includes our will and every aspect of our personality that is linked to our will. In addition, Paul previously argued that God is responsible for creating our entire history.

I think it is safe to say, based on Paul's argument, that our entire experience as a follower of Jesus, from our conversion experience to our eventual resurrection and glorification, are all in the hands of the Creator God.

 

[Taken]

What if agreement itself is an aspect of Salvation?

It is.

What if God creates the agreement rather than forcing the agreement?

He does. Like any OFFERING, (a bank account, a bank loan, an app added to your electronic devices, joining a forum, enrolling kids in public schools, seeking medical services, accepting a proposal of marriage, choosing groceries off the shelf, on and on….all have CAVEATS that by what you CHOOSE to Accept, IS According to the Agreement SET BY the Provider.

God has an ADVANTAGE. He doesn’t WAIT TO SEE IF you will ABIDE BY your Intent, BY your word…He exercises His ALL KNOWING POWER (Looking INTO the TRUTH in a mans natural spirit IN his Heart….TO SEE IF that mans word IS True.
IF that mans word IS true…THEN does God MADE that man incapable of ever again in STANDING Against Him.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What if agreement itself is an aspect of Salvation? What if God creates the agreement rather than forcing the agreement?

I realize that we don't typically think in these categories. But Paul seems to believe that creation continues throughout history. Consider Romans 9 where Paul defends God against the charge of injustice. He previously argued that God chose Jacob over Esau before the children were born, before they had a chance to do anything right or wrong. One might conclude from this that God is unjust or unfair. It appears that God's judgments are arbitrary. Paul defends God from the standpoint that God is our creator.

Romans 9:19-24

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.​

​

​

who are you, O man
In this passage, the Apostle asks the reader to contemplate their relationship with God. Who are we? What defines us? Paul suggests that we are like clay, and God is the potter. The potter has complete control over the clay, and can shape it into anything He desires. This includes our will and every aspect of our personality that is linked to our will. In addition, Paul previously argued that God is responsible for creating our entire history.

I think it is safe to say, based on Paul's argument, that our entire experience as a follower of Jesus, from our conversion experience to our eventual resurrection and glorification, are all in the hands of the Creator God.

One must remember in Romans 9 Paul is defending Pauls calling out of Israel. Showing God did not make a mistake..

 

[Taken]

What if agreement itself is an aspect of Salvation? What if God creates the agreement rather than forcing the agreement?

I realize that we don't typically think in these categories. But Paul seems to believe that creation continues throughout history. Consider Romans 9 where Paul defends God against the charge of injustice. He previously argued that God chose Jacob over Esau before the children were born, before they had a chance to do anything right or wrong. One might conclude from this that God is unjust or unfair. It appears that God's judgments are arbitrary. Paul defends God from the standpoint that God is our creator.

Romans 9:19-24

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.​

​

​

who are you, O man
In this passage, the Apostle asks the reader to contemplate their relationship with God. Who are we? What defines us? Paul suggests that we are like clay, and God is the potter. The potter has complete control over the clay, and can shape it into anything He desires. This includes our will and every aspect of our personality that is linked to our will. In addition, Paul previously argued that God is responsible for creating our entire history.

I think it is safe to say, based on Paul's argument, that our entire experience as a follower of Jesus, from our conversion experience to our eventual resurrection and glorification, are all in the hands of the Creator God.

I believe God is without Beginning or Ending.

I believe God Began Creating and notified his manKIND of Creation of the order, the purpose, the intent, His Desire FOR Creating manKIND.

I believe EVERYTHING God Created was Accomplished within the timeline of the Beginning through the Notice to manKind of WHAT He Created.
Heavens, Earth, Waters, Seeds, Plants, Animals, Man and continued Revealing how those things Fit into categories of KINDS.

And further HOW He Created, and WHY He Created, and a General timeline of WHEN He Created.

And the BIG REVEAL..in which HIS POWER CAN “MAKE” ANY of His CREATIONS, that fall into corruption; BE MADE RESTORED, RENEWED, PERFECTED and PERFECT.

And the GREATER REVEAL…which HE WILL and WILL NOT MAKE RESTORED, RENEWED, PERFECTED and PERFECT.
AND WHY.

I believe Gods creations were Completed in a very Short time frame.
I believe Gods makings has continued forward since His Creation and will continue….Forever? Highly Likely, but unknown for sure.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

One must remember in Romans 9 Paul is defending Pauls calling out of Israel. Showing God did not make a mistake..

God making a mistake or not, is not in dispute.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God making a mistake or not, is not in dispute.

It was when paul wrote it

People looked at the jews. and had to question. did God make a mistake choosing them..

Paul spends three chapters arguing the point he did not

 

[CadyandZoe]

It is.

He does. Like any OFFERING, (a bank account, a bank loan, an app added to your electronic devices, joining a forum, enrolling kids in public schools, seeking medical services, accepting a proposal of marriage, choosing groceries off the shelf, on and on….all have CAVEATS that by what you CHOOSE to Accept, IS According to the Agreement SET BY the Provider.

God has an ADVANTAGE. He doesn’t WAIT TO SEE IF you will ABIDE BY your Intent, BY your word…He exercises His ALL KNOWING POWER (Looking INTO the TRUTH in a mans natural spirit IN his Heart….TO SEE IF that mans word IS True.
IF that mans word IS true…THEN does God MADE that man incapable of ever again in STANDING Against Him.

Glory to God,
Taken

I understand your perspective on the matter. It seems to me that you are more inclined towards the approach of "buying a pot". In this approach, a woman goes to a hardware store to buy a pot and carefully examines each pot to find one that meets her criteria. According to this perspective, God searches for people who are willing to believe the gospel and to commit to that gospel for the rest of their lives.

On the other hand, my perspective could be characterized as "throwing a pot" - that is, creating a pot with bare hands from clay. In this approach, a potter forms and fashions a pot from clay according to the criteria of her purpose. Depending on the purpose, she shapes the pot accordingly - if she needs a place to display and hold flowers, she makes a vase, and if she needs a large pot to grow a bush, she forms a low, wide pot.

Thus, if God wants to create someone to save, he creates a person who hears the gospel, believes the gospel, lives according to the gospel, and persists in believing her entire life. While it is true that there are criteria to salvation, God creates a person that meets all the criteria. According to Paul, God is not unjust because God has the power of creation. He is not unjust to pick Esau over Jacob before the boys were born because he designed each boy according to his purpose for the boy.

 

[CadyandZoe]

One must remember in Romans 9 Paul is defending Pauls calling out of Israel. Showing God did not make a mistake..

I understand Romans 9 slightly differently. There, Paul is defending his gospel against those who would claim that God promised to save "All of Jacob's descendants." Paul needs to prove that God is not breaking his promise to Jacob, when he saves only a fraction of the Jews, while including some Gentiles also.

Paul doesn't dismiss the claim that God promised to save "All Israel" he gives his readers a direct answer to the question in Romans 11.

 

[Taken]

It was when paul wrote it

People looked at the jews. and had to question. did God make a mistake choosing them..

Paul spends three chapters arguing the point he did not

Gotcha. I was speaking from my perspective.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I believe God is without Beginning or Ending.

I believe God Began Creating and notified his manKIND of Creation of the order, the purpose, the intent, His Desire FOR Creating manKIND.

I believe EVERYTHING God Created was Accomplished within the timeline of the Beginning through the Notice to manKind of WHAT He Created.
Heavens, Earth, Waters, Seeds, Plants, Animals, Man and continued Revealing how those things Fit into categories of KINDS.

And further HOW He Created, and WHY He Created, and a General timeline of WHEN He Created.

And the BIG REVEAL..in which HIS POWER CAN “MAKE” ANY of His CREATIONS, that fall into corruption; BE MADE RESTORED, RENEWED, PERFECTED and PERFECT.

And the GREATER REVEAL…which HE WILL and WILL NOT MAKE RESTORED, RENEWED, PERFECTED and PERFECT.
AND WHY.

I believe Gods creations were Completed in a very Short time frame.
I believe Gods makings has continued forward since His Creation and will continue….Forever? Highly Likely, but unknown for sure.

Glory to God,
Taken

I believe that God creates everything moment-by-moment. But let me put that aside for the moment. :)

If one meditates on the creation account, one might notice that God didn't create things to last. I can show you this later if you like, but let me jump ahead to Paul's opinion on the matter. In the following passage, Paul claims that the creation itself was subject to futility. Today we would call this "entropy". Everything that is valuable and useful to us either breaks, rusts, crumbles into ruins, dies, breaks down, wears out, and etc. This life is filled with decay, dissolution, and destruction.

Romans 8:18-25

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.​

This creation was not meant to last. The creation was subjected to futility. According to Paul, the creation itself awaits the glorification of God's children. And Paul defines the "children of God" as those who have the first fruits of the Spirit. These folks are looking forward to the redemption of their body. There is no contingency in Paul's statement. If God has placed his Spirit in the heart of an individual, that individual will never fail to be bodily redeemed.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If we read in the OT,

the potter and clay thing was God Telling Israel if he makes something out of clay, and that thing become marred in his hands. He has the right to start over

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I understand Romans 9 slightly differently. There, Paul is defending his gospel against those who would claim that God promised to save "All of Jacob's descendants." Paul needs to prove that God is not breaking his promise to Jacob, when he saves only a fraction of the Jews, while including some Gentiles also.

Paul doesn't dismiss the claim that God promised to save "All Israel" he gives his readers a direct answer to the question in Romans 11.

That is one of his arguments.

But it is about Gods chosing of Isreal

He says all those things, about how God did not chose them because of their righteousness. (An argument they made)

that the gentiles would come and share

and that in the end, All Israel would be saved.

if we take it out of context. we get things like calvinist views.. which paul did nto have in mind

 

[Taken]

I understand your perspective on the matter. It seems to me that you are more inclined towards the approach of "buying a pot". In this approach, a woman goes to a hardware store to buy a pot and carefully examines each pot to find one that meets her criteria. According to this perspective, God searches for people who are willing to believe the gospel and to commit to that gospel for the rest of their lives.

(Added to this…it posted before I was finished writing).

Yes. And while she is examining…
The “owner” is giving tips, encouragement of WHY she “should” purchase the pot.

Parallel to a man HEARING the word of God, examining His Word, and God giving that man “measures” of Faith, to encourage him of WHY he “should” consider the “benefits” and Elect to Agree to receive it.

On the other hand, my perspective could be characterized as "throwing a pot" - that is, creating a pot with bare hands from clay. In this approach, a potter forms and fashions a pot from clay according to the criteria of her purpose.

Agree in part. God Creating a MAN from existing DUST, called a FORMED MAN-KIND of thing….FORM-ED…complet-ED.
The BODY, it’s organs, it’s LIFE, called BLOOD.
First..was a MALE and FEMALE God Named ADAM.
Gen 5:
[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Immediately AFTER ADAM was form-ED creat-ED…
THEN God MADE him ALIVE via a soul with Gods Breath of Life blown INTO ADAM.

Gen 1:
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Man Created IN Gods IMAGE…MADE IN Gods IMAGE…MADE after Gods LIKENESS…
What was MADE was CALLED ‘VERY GOOD’.

IOW…
Gods Creation was Created BY His Power.
Gods MAKING of his Creations was called:
Very Good.

Gen 2:
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
[4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
[5] And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
[6] But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
[7] And the LORD God formed man (creat-ED)of the dust of the ground, and breathed (MADE) into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
[8] And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

God finishED His works and rested from all he created, formed AND THEN made.

Considering…mans FREEWILL…men can Make themselves…NOT GOOD…and Gods can Make a willing man…restored to GOOD…AND….to have A new spirit never subject to Death.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I understand Romans 9 slightly differently. There, Paul is defending his gospel against those who would claim that God promised to save "All of Jacob's descendants." Paul needs to prove that God is not breaking his promise to Jacob, when he saves only a fraction of the Jews, while including some Gentiles also.

Paul doesn't dismiss the claim that God promised to save "All Israel" he gives his readers a direct answer to the question in Romans 11.

That can appear as a conundrum…

Not ALL people will be saved, that is not in question.

ISRAEL ~ carte blanch…appears on its face to INCLUDE ANY Hebrew or ANY Israelite being a direct line descendant of Abraham, Issac, Jacob…

However WHEN we examine the OT…And the Giving of the LAW and COMMANDMENTS…
“All the people with one accord AGREED TO DO ALL GOD COMMANDED”.

It was THEIR WORD of confessing TO OBEY GOD. (Ex 19:8)

Individuals…descending, down to the Divisions of the Twelve Tribes, carried on the same … Hearing Gods Laws and Commands and Agreeing to DO / OBEY…
With an option to seek forgiveness, IF they falter, trip up (which can easily happen to any man who is NOT ALL KNOWING.)

But what ABOUT the individual ISRAELITE, an ISRAELITE by BIRTH….but which NEVER gives his own word in Agreement to DO or OBEY Gods Commands?

He is the BRANCH that BECOMES Broken OFF. His natural birth status becomes irrelevant…
IN brief, I would say GOD SHALL SAVE ALL OF ISRAEL (the People)…who ARE considered ISRAEL…BECAUSE by their own word, they are OF GOD and DO according to His WORD.

And the Gentiles do similar.
In the new beginning, there will be no ISRAELITES/ TRIBES/ GENTILES…
ONLY…Gods PEOPLE.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CadyandZoe]

If we read in the OT,

the potter and clay thing was God Telling Israel if he makes something out of clay, and that thing become marred in his hands. He has the right to start over

Paul uses the potter-clay analogy to make a different point.