Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Why? What problem do you perceive in there being many gods and lords, of which Jesus is one, from his God who is the true Supreme Being?
A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Well, that’s what it’s called when someone like AJ pens paragraphs answering you but you say she’s side stepped you.
Again, not agreeing with her is acceptable but not even acknowledging her actually addressing you is not very Christ like.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 1
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
"a Child is born"
"a Son"
"Mighty God"
Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
And the only One's called the first and the last are Jehovah and Jesus because they are the same being!
From the JW's own bible:
NWT Isaiah 44 This is what Jehovah says,The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last.
NWT Rev 1
17 I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever,
That's just it. She didn't answer me. She answered something that she ascribed to me, but wasn't me. A few times. The easiest example is giving this long explanation that the Greek "theos" does not translate to "YHWH", or Yahweh.
I've never said anything like that, so it's answering a straw man. I know what theos means, the ways the word is used. I've never said anything to indicate I think theos can only mean YHWH.
So she answered that, but not what I wrote. I call that sidestepping.
Much love!
Just because two people in the Bible share the same title does not mean they are the same person or have the same power and authority. For example, the prophet Daniel called Nebuchadnezzar this way:
Dan. 2:37 You, O king—the king of kings to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the might, the strength, and the glory, 38 and into whose hand he has given men wherever they may dwell, as well as the beasts of the field and the birds of the heavens, and whom he has made ruler over all of them—you yourself are the head of gold.
If we read the passage to a person who does not know the Bible, they would surely think that those words were addressed to Jesus. Obviously Nebuchadnezzar is not Jesus and he would never be a "King of kings" in the same sense that he is.
The fact that the title "the First and the Last" is used with reference to Jehovah and then with reference to Jesus, does not imply that they are the same person, nor that they have the same authority or power. In fact, in the Bible we can PERFECTLY tell the difference between Jehovah and Jesus, if we are willing to accept the truth:
1) Jesus was anointed by Jehovah
2) Jesus was the prophet "Moses-like" that Jehovah had promised
3) Jehovah sat Jesus Christ at His right hand when He raised him
4) Jehovah chose Jesus as High Priest in the manner of Melchizedek
5) Jesus is Jehovah's heir
6) Jehovah declared Jesus Christ as His Son.
Dan. 2:37 You, O king—the king of kings to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the might, the strength, and the glory, 38 and into whose hand he has given men wherever they may dwell, as well as the beasts of the field and the birds of the heavens, and whom he has made ruler over all of them—you yourself are the head of gold.
If we read the passage to a person who does not know the Bible, they would surely think that those words were addressed to Jesus. Obviously Nebuchadnezzar is not Jesus and he would never be a "King of kings" in the same sense that he is.
The fact that the title "the First and the Last" is used with reference to Jehovah and then with reference to Jesus, does not imply that they are the same person, nor that they have the same authority or power. In fact, in the Bible we can PERFECTLY tell the difference between Jehovah and Jesus, if we are willing to accept the truth:
1) Jesus was anointed by Jehovah
2) Jesus was the prophet "Moses-like" that Jehovah had promised
3) Jehovah sat Jesus Christ at His right hand when He raised him
4) Jehovah chose Jesus as High Priest in the manner of Melchizedek
5) Jesus is Jehovah's heir
6) Jehovah declared Jesus Christ as His Son.
ONLY God is called "Mighty God" in the Bible. His Name is Jesus. Show us someone else called "Mighty God" in the Bible. You can't.
This is what the Bible teaches:
Phil. 2:5 Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Evidently: God exalted Jesus. Who's that God?
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.
Who is the God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of the forefathers of the Jews?
John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God.
Is Jehovah, the Father and God of Jesus, only the God of the Jews?
Rom. 3:29 Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of people of the nations? Yes, also of people of the nations. 30 Since God is one, he will declare circumcised people righteous as a result of faith and uncircumcised people righteous by means of their faith.
Did Christians in the first century know Jehovah? Of course, they were mostly Jews. They made this prayer to Jehovah:
Acts 4:24 (...) “Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ 27 For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”
If Jehovah was the God of first century Christians, who do you think Jesus was to them? ;)
Phil. 2:5 Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Evidently: God exalted Jesus. Who's that God?
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.
Who is the God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of the forefathers of the Jews?
John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God.
Is Jehovah, the Father and God of Jesus, only the God of the Jews?
Rom. 3:29 Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of people of the nations? Yes, also of people of the nations. 30 Since God is one, he will declare circumcised people righteous as a result of faith and uncircumcised people righteous by means of their faith.
Did Christians in the first century know Jehovah? Of course, they were mostly Jews. They made this prayer to Jehovah:
Acts 4:24 (...) “Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ 27 For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”
If Jehovah was the God of first century Christians, who do you think Jesus was to them? ;)
"ONLY God is called "Mighty God" in the Bible. His Name is Jesus. Show us someone else called "Mighty God" in the Bible. You can't."
If you were to ask Jesus what God he is talking about here:
John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
... What do you think he would answer you? :)
John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
... What do you think he would answer you? :)
You're not paying attention. ONLY God and Jesus are called "Mighty God". They are the same!
If Jesus' brothers have the same God that he has, who would be those who do not have the same God?
John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “(...) But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
Another way to ask: do you have the same God that Jesus and his brothers have?
John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “(...) But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
Another way to ask: do you have the same God that Jesus and his brothers have?
His brothers are not called "Mighty God". Only God and Jesus are. They are the same.If Jesus' brothers have the same God that he has, who would be those who do not have the same God?
John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “(...) But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
Another way to ask: do you have the same God that Jesus and his brothers have?
If you don't know the God of Jesus, do you think you are included among the conquerors that Jesus talks about here? :cool:
Rev. 3:12 “‘The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.
Rev. 3:12 “‘The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.
If the creatures of heaven sing to Jesus this:
Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
...is it not true that they do not consider Jesus as their God?
Why on earth are so many people confused?
Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
...is it not true that they do not consider Jesus as their God?
Why on earth are so many people confused?
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