Denying the Cross: How to do it

[Keturah]

My salvation is Jesus' death, burial & resurrection & his ascension to the Father in heaven from whence he came!

Jesus is NO LONGER ON THE CROSS.

I follow the planned work he has prepared for me in accordance to his word. Nothing I could do would ever purchase my salvation. He is the only propitiation for anyone's sin.

 

[Behold]

I follow the planned work he has prepared for me in accordance to his word. Nothing I could do would ever purchase my salvation. He is the only propitiation for anyone's sin.

We work because we are redeemed, forever by the Blood Atonment.

WE "present our body a living sacrifice to God" because the Son of God has provided His Body for us as our forgiveness and our Eternal Life.

His body is our Salvation and our body given to God as our discipleship, is how we truly Love God.
As Love is a deed that can be seen and not just heard.

"ill show you my faith, by my Works".

"Ill give you my life because Jesus gave me His".

 

[quietthinker]

Denying the Cross: How to do it​

A faulty reference point results in faulty conclusions!

Do we even know the base reference points in our 'structures' so we can stand back sufficiently to evaluate?

 

[amigo de christo]

Sorry Brother, I don’t believe you can follow another Jesus if you have been birthed in the Spirit, impossible...that’s my opinion and belief.....we are his sheep and we know / hear his living word....

a truly born again sheep WONT follow another JESUS . but as i say many think they are born again and yet FOLLOW another jesus .
That has been my point all along . OH i know the sheep HEAR HIS VOICE .
but many who claim to hear his voice , AINT FOLLOWING THE GREAT SHEPARD OF THE SHEEP .
That too has been my point all along .

 

[amigo de christo]

1.) "sin shall not have dominion over you, as you are not under the law but under Grace"

2.) "the old many of sin, is crucified with Christ".

3.) "He that is dead, is freed from sin".

4.) The born again are "dead to sin, but alive to God = in Christ".

Yep . And if the SPIRIT of CHRIST be in you then the body is dead because of sin .
Freed from sin . from the power of sin .
If any man has not the SPIRIT of CHRIST HE is none of His .
Yet many live daily unto sin , embrace evil , call evil good and good evil and then THINK THEY BORN AGAIN and HAVE
the SPIRIT . nope they as lost as i once was . Not born again .
Huge difference between a repentant man and a unrepentant man .
Big difference . One liveth unto the lusts of the flesh and will justify his evil
the other hates the evil of is own flesh , will die daily and are convicted by the SPIRIT
when the evils of their flesh rises up to tempt them .
ONE KNOWETH and IS BORN OF GOD . The other at most has some head knowledge , NOT BORN AGAIN .
I WAS THE LATTER , now thanks be to GOD and HIS TRUE GRACE i was truly drawn to Christ , and changed .
Many are still the old man , with at most some head knowledge , using only parts of the scrips
and always justify their sin , saying things like GOD MADE ME THIS WAY , JUDGE NOT , How dare you correct
HOW GOD made me and tell me its sin . GOD Is love they say as they holler and hold rainbow flags high in churches
as they support many evils and say WE ARE FREE TO DO SO , WE HAVE LIBERTY .
ONLY they seem to have forgotten we are not to use liberty as an occasion to serve the flesh .
BUT their god , and please understand why i did not capitalize that god , TELLS THEM
as it whispers in their ear , DO AS THOU WILT , ALL IS FINE , Eat and DINE upon what makes you FEEL GOOD .
IT AINT GOD they hearing from and they sure as heck aint BORN from ABOVE .
For as i stated earlier , a lamb hates even the evil trapped in its flesh . IT wont call evil good and good evil
FOR THE SPIRIT OF THE HOLY GOD dwells within . AND LEADS and guides them into TRUTH , not lies and lusts of the flesh .
Many , and i do repeat , many who lip THE NAME OF JESUS , ARE NOT BORN AGAIN .
As their god even whispers in their ear , Hug a muslim they serve the same GOD ye do .
HUG a rainbow for GOD IS LOVE he says to them . THERE Is no need to preach YE MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS
for GOD IS LOVE it tells them and HE has made the road all inclusive , every religoin is of GOD it hollers .
and THEY BELIEVE ITS VOICE . But i tell us all it is the voice of a stranger , the voice
of darkness potraying itself as LIGHT , calling good EVIL and evil good . SOMETHING AINT RIGHT my friend
Something has went dead wrong within christanity . But , lambs DONT HEED ITS VOICE OR ITS FALSE LOVE .
THEY HEED CHRIST . and no stranger will they follow .

 

[amigo de christo]

Some folks....ya just gotta be wondering...................
View attachment 33660

I dont think many folks understand exactly what has crept into and within christendom .
We were warned it would and specially near the end .
Wolves in lambs clothing have long crept in and led more and more peoples right into a trap .
Right into a lie .
Right into a love that cometh not of GOD but of the world and the dragon who has always desired to be as God .
Right into a love that hollered for years OPEN YOUR MIND , TAKE GOD OUT of the box,
and all the whiles the peoples who sat under it had no idea the box they were slowly taking GOD out of
WAS THE BIBLE . and was remolding the image of god into an image humanity considers good .
And time went on and more and more evil began not only be overlooked but now called good .
And the most tolerant children of this love , has become tolerant and accepting of lies
BUT very INTOLERANT towards TRUTH .
BE YE FREE it hollered and more and more it led them into the ideals
that certain sins were OUTDATED , that we are now free in Christ it hollered to follow YOUR HEART .
NOT THE TRUTH IN THE BIBLE .
FOLLOW YE YOUR MIND it hollers for ye have the HOLY SPIRIT , and all the while
they were and are led into greater darkness . For they test not this spirit against BIBLCIAL TRUTH
NO that GOD had been removed , That CHRIST no longer seen as THE CHRIST
As more and ever more darkness came within , they saw darkness as LIGHT
they saw truth as hate
More and more they lost what the true church had always had and kept .
And now they have no idea what christanity has lost , NOR THAT THEY ARE LOST .
They have no idea that if the JESUS CHRIST of GOD were to enter into their love syangogues
and spoke truth , THEY WOULD CORRECT HIM , AND TELL HIM YE KNOW NOT GOD , YE KNOW NOT LOVE
YE KNOW NOT JESUS .
And if the apostels were to walk into these synagogues of love so called
THEY TOO would be run out , called haters , They would holler at paul and tell him YE KNOW NOT OUR PAULINE THEOLOGY
they would strike at james and call him a legalistic hater .
FOLKS GOT NO IDEA WHAT HAS HAPPEND , CAUSE THE LOVE OF TRUTH IS GONE from many syangogues
replaced by sensual love , an idea of who god is and what love is . WE GOT BIG TIME PROBLEMS MY FRIEND .
and marvel not if they hate you .

 

[Lizbeth]

@Behold ...what is a “ still birth”?

I can’t find it anywhere in the living word of God?..Lol.

Where's there's life there's growth. If there's no growth, we would question whether there is life. Hebrews 6 warns us to leave behind the elementary things and go on to perfection because otherwise there is a danger of falling away. Elsewhere scripture says to forget what lies behind and press on to what lies ahead. God kept moving the children of Israel onward in the wilderness, He didn't let them get too comfortable and camp out in one place for very long. That would have led to stagnation and ultimately being overtaken by the things that feed on that.

 

[amigo de christo]

Where's there's life there's growth. If there's no growth, we would question whether there is life. Hebrews 6 warns us to leave behind the elementary things and go on to perfection because otherwise there is a danger of falling away. Elsewhere scripture says to forget what lies behind and press on to what lies ahead. God kept moving the children of Israel onward in the wilderness, He didn't let them get too comfortable and camp out in one place for very long. That would have led to stagnation and ultimately being overtaken by the things that feed on that.

strap all armour of the LORD upon us . The final hour is upon us all . The lambs have all hope .
The LORD is our hope , the SPIRIT is our guide , the bible is our book . Our end is WONDERFUL
a true place , a true and lovely home awaits all who are in Christ , for they follow the GREAT SHEPARD OF THE SHEEP .
UNTO HE DO THEY LOOK , UNTO HE they have placed all their trust and hope upon .
The end of this world as we know approaches . In a day and at an hour that no man knoweth BUT GOD .
GOD has been so long suffering , SO very long suffering , Desiring not the death of the wicked
but rather they repent . But THE TIME IS COMING when THE LAMB shall tread the winepress of the wrath of ALL MIGHTY GOD .
GOD will abandon the generation of His wrath . Not cause HE DIDNT desire life for them
but because they embraced the lie and rejected and rejected the very love of the TRUTH WHICH TRULY COULD
have saved them and given them life . And for this cause GOD shall send STRONG DELUSION
unto all WHO rejected the LOVE of the truth whereby they would have been saved .
THEY WILL arise as one under the lie , they will be damned .
THIS WAS NOT and IS NOT THE FAULT OF GOD . HIS EVERY JUDGMENT IS RIGHTEOUS
AND GOD IS LOVE , THUS HE DID SEND THE SON so that all who did believe would be saved .
But many reject that JESUS , many reject the TRUTH , and have done so unto their own demise .
WE do not know WHO wont come . GOD DOES . WE , simply must live , eat of , speak the TRUTH .
Those who hear amen , those who forbear , its on them .
THE Lambs must contend for the true faith , Following the Voice the of the great shepard of the sheep .
IT will cost us just as it has cost many through all ages . BUT WE WIN FOR JESUS HAS WON .
THE VICTORY IS IN CHRIST and the HEAVENLY CITY awaits all who are HIS .
The end hour is fast approaching , and though man knows the day nor hour , THE SIGNS are BIG TIME SHOWING US
the day IS approaching . LET us armour up and with all urgency do all to point to Christ
to ALL sound doctrine by which the lambs will grow . Times are gonna get much worse sister and very fast too .
WHEN EVIL rages and societies and worse churches go with the flow of the times , ITS MOVES VERY FAST .

 

[Ritajanice]

Where's there's life there's growth. If there's no growth, we would question whether there is life. Hebrews 6 warns us to leave behind the elementary things and go on to perfection because otherwise there is a danger of falling away. Elsewhere scripture says to forget what lies behind and press on to what lies ahead. God kept moving the children of Israel onward in the wilderness, He didn't let them get too comfortable and camp out in one place for very long. That would have led to stagnation and ultimately being overtaken by the things that feed on that.

I don’t believe a Born again can EVER fall away @Lizbeth ..where there’s Life there’s growth, you say.

That to me would mean...Life comes from Jesus , Life comes when we have been birthed in the Spirit, which is a supernatural act of God, we can’t birth ourselves.

Now, if one has that Living word that they received into their heart/ spirit, which again, is a GIFT from God....then they are Alive only in Christ, takes time to grow and mature in the Lord, ...it’s the Holy Spirit who conforms us into the image of Christ.....I don’t strive to work at staying saved, I know 100% I have been birthed....i wait on God through the Holy Spirit to do all of these things...as I’ve said many times, we can do NOTHING without him.......I am also NOTHING without him.....it’s all about Jesus and HIS POWER that’s at work within me.....bearing fruit ....we bear his beautiful fruit....it’s not my fruit that’s within , it’s the FRUIT of the SPIRIT.....Jesus was PERFECT.....he is the PERFECT example to his children and it’s a Pleasure,Privilege and Honour to be chosen to be his child....words could NEVER be enough to thank him, for his PRECIOUS HOLY SPIRIT...that I had the honour to be birthed in......God Bless Sis....forever learning in Christ.

My opinion/ belief and testimony.

 

[Lizbeth]

I don’t believe a Born again can EVER fall away @Lizbeth ..where there’s Life there’s growth, you say.

That to me would mean...Life comes from Jesus , Life comes when we have been birthed in the Spirit, which is a supernatural act of God, we can’t birth ourselves.

Now, if one has that Living word that they received into their heart/ spirit, which again, is a GIFT from God....then they are Alive only in Christ, takes time to grow and mature in the Lord, ...it’s the Holy Spirit who conforms us into the image of Christ.....I don’t strive to work at staying saved, I know 100% I have been birthed....i wait on God through the Holy Spirit to do all of these things...as I’ve said many times, we can do NOTHING without him.......I am also NOTHING without him.....it’s all about Jesus and HIS POWER that’s at work within me.....bearing fruit ....we bear his beautiful fruit....it’s not my fruit that’s within , it’s the FRUIT of the SPIRIT.....Jesus was PERFECT.....he is the PERFECT example to his children and it’s a Pleasure,Privilege and Honour to be chosen to be his child....words could NEVER be enough to thank him, for his PRECIOUS HOLY SPIRIT...that I had the honour to be birthed in......God Bless Sis....forever learning in Christ.

My opinion/ belief and testimony.

Amen, the Life is from Jesus and we have nothing of our own - He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. And I dont' doubt at all that you are born of Him, I discern it, sister.

The question with whether we can lose our salvation is that not everyone is willing to follow Him. He doesn't force us to. Jesus said if you would be my disciple (ie, be willing) deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Me. And following Him is the Way to where He is - that is where He is leading those who follow. In my observation not all born again believers follow/obey Him, because of not being willing to count the cost, and/or because of being mistaught and led astray. Remember the parable of the fishes....those fish were all caught in the net, but some turned out to be bad fish and got thrown back into the sea (world) they were drawn from. I find it hard to miss the warning in that, as well as other scriptures, which when we take them to heart are working for our good (as with all of His word).

 

[Behold]

The question with whether we can lose our salvation is that not everyone is willing to follow Him.

We are not saved by willingly following Him, because we are not saved by following Him at all.

We are saved by giving God our Faith in Jesus, who then gives us the new birth, "in Christ".

You dont "follow that'... you RECEIVE it .

"The GIFT of Salvation".

God does not save followers.. He saves SINNERS from the sin, who become "born again" CHRISTians.

 

[Ritajanice]

The question with whether we can lose our salvation is that not everyone is willing to follow Him. He doesn't force us to. Jesus said if you would be my disciple (ie, be willing) deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Me. And following Him is the Way to where He is - that is where He is leading those who follow. In my observation not all born again believers follow/obey Him, because of not being willing to count the cost, and/or because of being mistaught and led astray. Remember the parable of the fishes....those fish were all caught in the net, but some turned out to be bad fish and got thrown back into the sea (world) they were drawn from. I find it hard to miss the warning in that, as well as other scriptures, which when we take them to heart are working for our good (as with all of His word)

Sis, I completely agree with a lot of what you say.....from my own experience as his child.....I’ve had to learn to get to know him through his Living word.

He has also taught me through the Holy Spirit to walk with him and to learn from him,” Obedience “....it’s an ongoing Living relationship,Sis.....that will NEVER EVER DIE.

With respect....as long as “ I KNOW “ I am Born Again “.....it really doesn’t bother me in the slightest, if others think I’M NOT......I’m extremely rooted and strong in the Living word of God....why, because I stay focused and only focused on his word......Praise Him Day and Night....Thank you Jesus!

◄ Colossians 2:7 ►

Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. New Living Translation Let your roots grow down into him, and let your lives be built on him. Then your faith will grow strong in the truth you were taught, and you will overflow with thankfulness. English Standard Version rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

 

[Ritajanice]

@Behold ....thank you Lord for this teacher..in Jesus Name...Amen!!....

 

[Lizbeth]

We are not saved by willingly following Him, because we are not saved by following Him at all.

We are saved by giving God our Faith in Jesus, who then gives us the new birth, "in Christ".

You dont "follow that'... you RECEIVE it .

"The GIFT of Salvation".

God does not save followers.. He saves SINNERS from the sin, who become "born again" CHRISTians.

Mat 25:2530

And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



Luk 14:25-33

And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?

Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace (ie, terms of SURRENDER)

So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.



Salvation is not just a one time event of being born again, it’s a journey and an end/destination. Being born again was only the beginning. Salvation is a Way and we need to be on that Way and following it, to get to the destination, where Jesus is. As Jesus told His disciples, you know the way to where I am going. That way is the narrow path that leads to life, the way of the cross.

 

[Behold]

Salvation is not just a one time event of being born again, it’s a journey and an end/destination. Being born again was only the beginning.

Being born again puts you in Christ, and as "one with God".. It causes your born again Spirit to be "seated in heavenly places".
You become "the temple of the Holy Spirit"
You become :

Heir of God
Joint Heir with Jesus
Made Righteous
A Saint
Translated from Darkness to Light
A child of The Light.

See all that @Lizbeth

That all happens the very instant you are saved. (Born again) all that happens, and you've not even woke up the next day, yet.
Not one work yet performed by you, yet.

So, what you are doing is not making the distinction between SALVATION< that is The Cross, the Blood of Jesus, the Death of Jesus, and the forgiveness of sin, and becoming a Christian......

You are not making the distinction between SALVATION that is provided by God, through Christ, with YOUR Discipleship, that is what you do because you now have Salvation.

1.) God provided the Salvation. Its completed, as "born again".. "New Creation in Christ"..."Made Righteous".. "Blood Bought" "having become the righteousness of God, in Christ".

2.) You now having God's Salvation..... provide the Discipleship, BECAUSE you have already been SAVED.

 

[Keturah]

"The question with whether we can lose our salvation is that not everyone is willing to follow Him. He doesn't force us to. Jesus said if you would be my disciple (ie, be willing) deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Me. And following Him is the Way to where He is - that is where He is leading those who follow. In my observation not all born again believers follow/obey Him, because of not being willing to count the cost, and/or because of being mistaught and led astray. Remember the parable of the fishes....those fish were all caught in the net, but some turned out to be bad fish and got thrown back into the sea (world) they were drawn from. I find it hard to miss the warning in that, as well as other scriptures, which when we take them to heart are working for our good (as with all of His word)". Lizbeth#330

@Lizbeth
I fully concur with what I have COPIED from your post. The word of God is for our growth & stability in our discipleship or walk with God!

We are offered the gift of salvation freely w/o force from God but by the Spirit's convicting us of our sin & separation, from a relationship with God!

It is THEN the responsibility of the receiver/ believer to be WILLING TO OBEY & FOLLOW THE WORDS OF GOD UNDER THE LEADING OF THE SPIRIT !

 

[Keturah]

Mat 25:2530

And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



Luk 14:25-33

And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?

Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace (ie, terms of SURRENDER)

So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.



Salvation is not just a one time event of being born again, it’s a journey and an end/destination. Being born again was only the beginning. Salvation is a Way and we need to be on that Way and following it, to get to the destination, where Jesus is. As Jesus told His disciples, you know the way to where I am going. That way is the narrow path that leads to life, the way of the cross.

 

[Lizbeth]

That all happens the very instant you are saved. (Born again) all that happens, and you've not even woke up the next day, yet.
Not one work yet performed by you, yet.

Not quite right....the first work we do is usually to confess Jesus by mouth:

Rom 10:8-10

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It is faith and works together, as James wrote. Does this mean God is a technician and going to nab somebody on a technicality….what if someone were deaf-mute or couldn’t speak for other reasons would they be disqualified for only believing in the heart without confessing with the mouth? Course not! What if someone came to faith while lost alone in the jungle or mountainside and died there with nobody to confess Jesus to would they have to forego salvation? I strongly doubt it! God is a righteous judge, not unrighteous. His word is generally addressing the norm, while taking for granted that extenuating circumstances might exempt a person.

You are not making the distinction between SALVATION that is provided by God, through Christ, with YOUR Discipleship, that is what you do because you now have Salvation.

1.) God provided the Salvation. Its completed, as "born again".. "New Creation in Christ"..."Made Righteous".. "Blood Bought" "having become the righteousness of God, in Christ".

2.) You now having God's Salvation..... provide the Discipleship, BECAUSE you have already been SAVED.

Never said otherwise. Absolutely, yes, amen. But the problem is that for whatever reason not everyone after being born again either is willing to, or learns to, deny the flesh and take up their cross and follow Jesus. The word of God speaking to believers says if we sow to the flesh we will reap destruction, but if we sow to the spirit we'll reap eternal life.

 

[Behold]

Not quite right....the first work we do is usually to confess Jesus by mouth:

You have faith in your heart before you do any confessing, or jump in the water , or run to the mission field.

"Faith is counted (by God) as righteousness".

"justification by faith", without works or deeds of the Law.

 

[Behold]

Never said otherwise. Absolutely, yes, amen. But the problem is that for whatever reason not everyone after being born again either is willing to, or learns to, deny the flesh and take up their cross and follow Jesus.

I hear a lot of people on forums trying to prove that noone but them denies the flesh, or can hear from God.

Have you noticed this @Lizbeth?

The issue with most believers is that they are doing all that to try to stay saved, which proves they dont trust in Jesus to keep them saved.

What is that?
That is broken faith, wrong faith, and NO Faith in Christ, that is pretending to be faith in Christ.