Who are the sons of God and the daughters of men

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Timtofly

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No reason to call teh angels men in Gen. 6
No reason to ever call the Sons of God angels. The sons of God were the human representatives of what goes on on the earth. Not all of them rebelled. It was their great, great, great, great,.... grandchildren more than 30 generations later. How can the first few generations be considered: they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown, if it just happened?

The angels just rebelled, but the sons of God already lived on earth for many generations before the angels rebelled.

It was the angels rebelling that led to Satan being in the Garden, that led to Adam's disobedience. Adam's dead corruptible flesh was passed down through Adamites or simply mankind, descendants of Adam and Eve. Then the descendants of the other sons of God, fell head over heals for corruptible human flesh, and that led to the Flood.

Besides the angels who left the firmament did not make it to earth, except Satan. They were immediately bound in chains of darkness in the pit, that will not be opened until the 5th Trumpet. Can you imagine millions of "Satans" loose on the earth just as bad as the serpent in the Garden? Did they all take on serpent form? Does not matter as they were bound in the pit, and in Revelation 9, they certainly are not described as sons of God, nor procreating humans of great renown.
 

Timtofly

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Yes it is. go check with a 2nd grade english teacher. God the Father has been in heaven since shortly after the fall.
What would stop the sons of God created on the 6th day, from joining God in heaven? Is there some kind of transportation issue between here and there?

Enoch had no issues. Elijah had no issues. Jesus had no issues. Satan has no issues, and his home is sheol. He gets to go everywhere.

How do you know God cannot move around in His creation instead of always seated on the GWT?

You seem to be limiting the term son of God to logistics and grammar. The redeemed are sons of God. Sons of God are not offspring of Adam and Eve. Sons of God were all those created on the 6th day, and Adam was a son of God who got transported into the Garden by God, while the others lived all over the earth, and some even representing mankind in heaven. Adam was to raise his family in the Garden obviously the place that secured two trees. The one no one was allowed to eat from, and the other the tree of Life. Adam stopped being a son of God the instant he disobeyed.


Now you want me to accept that when angels rebel they get to have fun on earth and procreate even more wickedness as a reward? When Adam rebelled it was instant death. When the angels rebelled, they were immediately chained in darkness, not on earth having fun. Coming to earth was not their rebellion. Walking off the job was their rebellion, and punishment was instant.
 

Timtofly

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JOb 38:7 shows the sons of God singing during teh days of creation- before man was even created!
So were the stars singing before angels were created?

It does not say "before creation" in the text. Who is making a grammatical error here?

The stars are the angels singing on the day they were created. The sons of God are those humans shouting back on the day they were created. Simple, no? Do you think that humans were not created during the week of creation, but thousands of years later?
 

Timtofly

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If Moses intended so say that interspecies marriage exemplifies human evil, he wouldn't need to point out that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful. The very act of interspecies marriage is already an example of evil on the face of it. No need to mention that the women were beautiful.
I would agree except there is also the connotation in Scripture that sin is also beautiful for a season, but ends in death.

The sons of God were attracted to the fruit yielding side of the sexes. As much as men are attracted to the opposite sex. Was it just looks though or was it the genetic offspring that was attractive as well? You have to include the fact that Adam and Eve introduced the whole new concept of man and wife. Unless you avoid that point all together. Sin can be attractive. But that does not explain how Eve was taken out of Adam and the two sexes coming together as one. That happened way before Adam disobeyed. Even if Adam and Eve never ate of the fruit, eventually the others on earth would want to know what went on the Garden of Eden.
 

CadyandZoe

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nice trickery here.

Now show from historical example there are more than one plausible scenarios for who the sons of God are. Scripture in the OT shows us as only angels.

BTW I would conclude based on teh definite article that some sort of spring arrived, and not a season. God is supremely careful when He inspires grammar.


Sorry but no. Based on the definite article, one can only conclude a spring of some sort arrived. But nice try. To use "the" with spring is improper grammar and god does not inspire sloppy grammar.


This is merely conjecture on your part. MOses is merely writing what Noah recorded and saw for Himself. Weren't there any daughters of God that were pretty? And who are the "noble kings" as you called them? Can you name a few? Please show where god condemned interspecies marriage is inherently evil? Sex between man and animal is forb idden, But once again Moses is merely writing what Noah saw first hand.

From the old to the new? Yes! Many terms had different focuses between the two testaments. Jesus is called God's only begotten son, for the angels were not begotten, nor Adam who is called the son of God. Context determines.

No with proof. As I gave it to you. It occurs only five times. four in Job and once here. Teh four times in JOb can only be angels and consistency requires the same here. YOu have added an entire narrative without one jot of biblical proof. At least I have the common sense of the bible.

It seems odd that you contend that the sons of God in JOb are men who parade themselves before god and yet there is not even one hint of mention of it before the flood or after. and then there is the fact that god told Moses man cannot look upon god and live.

I appreciate your philosophical ramblings on this, but Scripture and not human logic defines scripture.

No I accept it 100% But all OT theophanies where God appeared of man were Christophanies. but what you need to show from Scripture is whenever a christophany occurred, "noble kings" gathered and passed before the theophany.

Your poor grammar is glaring here.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The cause of the Nephilim, Gibborim and men of renown is WHEN the sons of God came into the daughters of men.

According to youo. But the phrase is used consistently in the New as well as the old. You need to bring forth compelling evidence to show why we should not accept "the sons of God" as angels in Genesis when they clearly are inJOb. You h ave failed to show why consistency must be broken.
I'm done.
 

CadyandZoe

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Of course God sired a Son. It's one of the pillars of the faith.

Mat_1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat_1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew is not saying that God sired a son. God is a spirit as Jesus said.
 
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David in NJ

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Genesis 6:1-8
When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.


Many people believe that the sons of God were fallen angels who fornicated and had children with female human beings thus making the world so evil that God decided to destroy civilization. Could this really be? Could spiritual being really fornicate with human beings even though Paul taught us that heavenly bodies have a different splendor than human bodies in 1 Corinthians 15? Would God really allow this to happen? I believe not

I believe that the sons of God were the faithful line of God and that the daughters of men were the daughters of the unfaithful line of Cain.

In the previous chapters of Genesis we see that the descendants of Seth were faithful to God while the descendants of Cain were not. All we hear about the descendants of Cain is the great accomplishments they made but Seth's descendants were great men of God. The earth seamed quite peaceful up until this time so what changed?

God constantly warns the faithful to not dwell with the unfaithful throughout the Old Testament and there is a reason for this which is to keep the faithful from being corrupted. We read that the sons of God were only attracted to the daughters of men because they are beautiful not because they loved them so the reason why they fornicated with them was for lust not love.

Over time while dwelling with the unfaithful the faithful conformed to the ways of the unfaithful until the faithful came down to just one man Noah. The ways of the Lord was lost and the offspring of these people lived for themselves not for the Lord as the whole world became filled with wickedness and this was the reason that God decided to destroy almost all of the human race with the great flood.

God protected the line of the faithful and continued to do so throughout the bible. I believe that this kind of serves as warning to the church and will be the same reason that God will destroy the human race in the future by fire as the church is slowly conforming to the ways of the world.
You said: "the sons of God were the faithful line of God"

Faithfulness to God does not produce GIANTS that so polluted the humankind and animals as well, so that God wiped the earth clean of its polluted genetic manipulation.

The term "sons of God" refers to spirit Beings = Angels and those who have been Born-Again by the Spirit of God.
 
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David in NJ

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Job 38:
[4] Where wast thou (Job, Grailhunter, Mankind) when I (the LORD) laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

[7] When (the LORD laid the foundations of the earth and) the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?






Job 38:
[2] Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

Glory to God,
Taken
fallen angels = just as Scripture Declares
 

Ronald Nolette

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Not once were those words used in the OT as angels.

The stars are the angels in the Bible. The sons of God are the humans in the Bible. They are not interdefined nor did they have intermarriage. The stars always appear as human in Scripture. They don't become human. In heaven the sons of God don't become angels. They just no longer procreate. The stars don't multiply and have babies contrary to modern science which claim they do. They don't explode and start new star systems either.

Your premise starts out on the wrong foot. Every time the term is used it is describing those humans created on the 6th day. That is their defined and given name. Adam is the father of current humanity, and Adam means mankind. But Adam was a created Son of God first, before he disobeyed, and was placed in a state of death. Adam was not the only Son of God, and Adam was not an angel either.
So you have humans in heaven singing for joy before God created Adam and Eve then. And you have humans going to heaven to present themselves before Yahweh
Did they survive the Flood? Were they tall enough to stand on the mountains? Why did God say that all flesh and living things were killed except those in the ark?

Were Noah and his sons married to giants?

The sons of God were humans and someone on the ark carried those genetic traits in them. They more than likely were the 4 females. Unless Noah married his sister, and his mom and dad were siblings, back several generations. Noah himself could have been carrying the genes from his mother's side. Still does not mean angels were involved. The sons of God did not have Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They also could have been very large compared to Adam's dead flesh. It was Adam's dead corruptible flesh that changed the sons of God into wicked sinners, and mixing the genetics of perfect sons of God changed the genetics of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.
All human reasoning. What kind of humans were they then? The term is only mentioned a total of five times and you have made them humans before God created humans and going to heaven . And if the sons of God are human who are the daughters of mankind?

YOu are once again promoting a second line of humanity created apart from Adam. Yuo0 are making alot of guesses to promote a doctrine without any biblical support.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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What would stop the sons of God created on the 6th day, from joining God in heaven? Is there some kind of transportation issue between here and there?

Enoch had no issues. Elijah had no issues. Jesus had no issues. Satan has no issues, and his home is sheol. He gets to go everywhere.

How do you know God cannot move around in His creation instead of always seated on the GWT?

You seem to be limiting the term son of God to logistics and grammar. The redeemed are sons of God. Sons of God are not offspring of Adam and Eve. Sons of God were all those created on the 6th day, and Adam was a son of God who got transported into the Garden by God, while the others lived all over the earth, and some even representing mankind in heaven. Adam was to raise his family in the Garden obviously the place that secured two trees. The one no one was allowed to eat from, and the other the tree of Life. Adam stopped being a son of God the instant he disobeyed.


Now you want me to accept that when angels rebel they get to have fun on earth and procreate even more wickedness as a reward? When Adam rebelled it was instant death. When the angels rebelled, they were immediately chained in darkness, not on earth having fun. Coming to earth was not their rebellion. Walking off the job was their rebellion, and punishment was instant.
Well you have that cock-eyed theory that God created Adam and Eve and a whole bunch more people which even Jesus denies.

You have to create lots of material that is not found in the Scripture to justify your position. And you do not support it with any proof.

As far as teh rebellious angels- Sorry but the ones who rebelled with Lucifer are still roaming teh heavens and the earth seeking whom they may devour. there are numerous passages to that effect, unless Paul and Peter and JOhn are wrong and you got better info.

No the angels in chains of darkness are the ones who left heaven at some time and procreated with human women.
 

David in NJ

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I agree, In my view, an "interpretation" of Biblical text is an "understanding" of the text and the question is whether or not I have come to the correct understanding of the text or not. In discussions such as this, we approach each other with our own assessment of the text at hand and we exchange our opinions of what meaning the text conveys. Logically, those like me who bring an opinion different than the customary opinion are giving a "new and different" interpretation.

What you don't seem to understand is that there is always more than one "plausible" interpretation to a given passage, due to the flexibility of language. Many words have more than one meaning. Even entire phrases can have more than one meaning. Even so, the Biblical text has an objective meaning, that is, the meaning that the author intended.

This discussion is focused on the question; what did Moses mean by the phrases, "sons of God and daughters of men?" A review of the Bible taken as a whole will reveal several different meanings of the phrase "sons of God." In Paul's epistle to the Galatians, for instance, he employs the phrase "sons of God" to indicate human beings who imitate God, trust in God, and organize life in respect to God's will. From this we learn that the phrase "sons of God" does not exclusively refer to angelic beings.


God is transcendent over his creation. As such, whenever he interacts with his creation, he manifests himself in a tangible way, a burning bush for example. We call these "theophanies", manifestations of the creator within the context of our reality.

When Abraham and Sarah met with The Lord, they saw him and experienced him as a man. This particular "angel" was a theophany of God. But he appeared to be a man, which is why Abraham offered him water and bread.

So then, when John declares that no one has seen God at any time, he speaks of the transcendent creator. No one can ever see God directly, one must "see" the manifestation of God. The Bible is filled with stories when people have seen theophanies of the Lord.

The Transcendent creator is "seen" in heaven, but again, he appears as a theophany -- a male that appears like Jasper stone, accompanied by flashes of lightning and peals of thunder.

The point is this. God can appear anywhere at anytime and he is not located in any particular space or time. He can appear as a burning bush or he can appear as a man to dialog with Abraham over the status of Sodom. He doesn't exist in heaven, he only manifests himself in heaven. Heaven is part of our reality. So then, when it says in Job that Satan and the Sons of God stood before the Lord, we have no reason to think that the event took place in heaven.


As I said before, due to the flexibility of language, a passage can have more than one meaning, which is why we don't find the correct interpretation of a passage using grammar alone. The grammar of a passage can still imply two or more plausible meanings. We need more than grammar to decide which plausible interpretation is the correct one. This is why you and I attempt to see how the phrase "son of God" is used elsewhere.

We both speak English and we both understand the grammar. Our disagreement is not focused on the grammar of the passage. The locus of our disagreement is the "preunderstanding" we bring to the passage.

We are talking about Satan and Heaven because in your examination of the Bible, you found OT passages where the phrase "sons of God" were found -- Job for instance. What you didn't find was the phrase "daughters of man" anywhere else in the Bible.

You are ignoring the phrase "and also afterward, when" which is unfortunate since it changes the meaning of the passage. The phrase "and also afterward, when" indicates a time when the Nephilim existed: before the Sons of God came into the Daughters of men, and also when the Sons of God came into the daughters of men.

"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days . . . " What is the referent to the phrase "those days" in verse 4? Moses is speaking about the time when mankind began to multiply on the land.

Moses has adopted a particular writing style that challenges his readers to draw inferences from limited clues. He never spells anything out. He expects his readers to meditate on his word and to draw conclusions from limited information

Let's look at some of the clues.

Genesis 6:1-3
Now it came about, when mankind began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be 120 years.”

daughters were born to them . . .
Obviously sons were born to them also. Moses decides to focus on daughters for some reason.

saw that the daughters of man were beautiful . . .
It isn't likely that all the daughters were beautiful. The point seems to be that beauty was the sole criteria for choosing a mate.

they took wives for themselves . . .
This wording suggests a selfish course of action. They took wives "for themselves" and not for the unification of two families but for breeding with a beautiful woman.

whomever they chose . . .
The women had no choice in the matter and neither did the father. Out of all the daughters born to mankind, this particular group of "sons" chose only beautiful women and for selfish reasons and without the woman's or her father's consent.

because he is also flesh . . .
The account is focused on the "flesh" of mankind. The Sons were focused on the flesh of the daughters, taking them as wives because of their beauty. God says that he will not strive with mankind's lust for pleasure for long. He has 120 years.

Given all of these clues, what main idea does Moses expect his readers to understand? Mankind was selfish and focused on pleasure from the very beginning, even with regard to choosing a mate.

THAT message is lost when people mistakenly think that the sons were angelic beings.
Throughout Scripture, the term "sons of God" only refers to spirit Beings = angels and the resurrected 'Born-Again' spirit of man.

Peace
 

Ronald Nolette

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So were the stars singing before angels were created?

It does not say "before creation" in the text. Who is making a grammatical error here?

The stars are the angels singing on the day they were created. The sons of God are those humans shouting back on the day they were created. Simple, no? Do you think that humans were not created during the week of creation, but thousands of years later?
You rproblem is you rip verses out of context and end up with bad doctrine.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

The stars and sons of god sang when the foundations of the earth were laid! That happened before man was created!
 
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CadyandZoe

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Throughout Scripture, the term "sons of God" only refers to spirit Beings = angels and the resurrected 'Born-Again' spirit of man.

Peace
I think if you recheck, you will find that human beings are also referred to as "sons of God." In fact, I am not sure it ever refers to angelic beings.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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I think if you recheck, you will find that human beings are also referred to as "sons of God." In fact, I am not sure it ever refers to angelic beings.
Mankind is only referred to as Sons of God in the New Testament. It is because of faith in Jesus a human being has the authority to become a son of god!

John 1:12

King James Version

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
 

David in NJ

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I think if you recheck, you will find that human beings are also referred to as "sons of God." In fact, I am not sure it ever refers to angelic beings.
Yes, i have checked this out thoroughly.

No humans of the flesh are referred to as 'sons of God'.

Only the Elect of God, Born-Again of the Spirit, are referred to as 'sons of God' and this only pertains to their spirit - not the flesh.

Mark 12:24-27
Jesus answered and said to them, “Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God?
For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken.”

1 John 3:1-3
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
 
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Olin

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Genesis 6:1-8
When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.


Many people believe that the sons of God were fallen angels who fornicated and had children with female human beings thus making the world so evil that God decided to destroy civilization. Could this really be? Could spiritual being really fornicate with human beings even though Paul taught us that heavenly bodies have a different splendor than human bodies in 1 Corinthians 15? Would God really allow this to happen? I believe not

I believe that the sons of God were the faithful line of God and that the daughters of men were the daughters of the unfaithful line of Cain.

In the previous chapters of Genesis we see that the descendants of Seth were faithful to God while the descendants of Cain were not. All we hear about the descendants of Cain is the great accomplishments they made but Seth's descendants were great men of God. The earth seamed quite peaceful up until this time so what changed?

God constantly warns the faithful to not dwell with the unfaithful throughout the Old Testament and there is a reason for this which is to keep the faithful from being corrupted. We read that the sons of God were only attracted to the daughters of men because they are beautiful not because they loved them so the reason why they fornicated with them was for lust not love.

Over time while dwelling with the unfaithful the faithful conformed to the ways of the unfaithful until the faithful came down to just one man Noah. The ways of the Lord was lost and the offspring of these people lived for themselves not for the Lord as the whole world became filled with wickedness and this was the reason that God decided to destroy almost all of the human race with the great flood.

God protected the line of the faithful and continued to do so throughout the bible. I believe that this kind of serves as warning to the church and will be the same reason that God will destroy the human race in the future by fire as the church is slowly conforming to the ways of the world.
It's a good thesis of marrying outside the faith. You also make a good point from 1 Corinthians 15. I don't think if means angels cannot mate with women. The Bible says angels take on the form of or bodies. They were only temporary though. That's how we can entertain angels without knowing it. The angels can eat, drink, and talk with us like any other person. Do you have any Bible showing they can't marry and mate with women also? Any Bible proving those sons of God were believers? The Bible calls the angels sons of God at creation and afterward.
 
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CadyandZoe

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I thought you couldn't provide any proof for your claims. Be well. Catch you on another thread.
Ronald,
Why does it matter that I couldn't provide proof? I told you that I got my information from a PHD of history, who I know to be a faithful Christian man. And unless you believe that I am a liar, you might grant me a moment of your time to look it up for yourself, i.e. prove it for your own edification. I guarantee that if you take the requisite time to search out the matter, you will discover that many of the ancients believed that kings were either gods or sons of gods. This is so common that you won't spend more than a half hour on the matter. I told you, I thought everyone knew this.
Mankind is only referred to as Sons of God in the New Testament. It is because of faith in Jesus a human being has the authority to become a son of god!

John 1:12​

King James Version​

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Yeah. In my view this is important evidence, supporting those who contend that being a "son of God" is NOT an ontological category. Sons of God are found both among angelic-kind and human-kind. Context informs the intended meaning.