The Bible supports reincarnation

[Adam]

Good article on Biblically-supported reincarnation here, though I came to the same conclusion separately:

May a Christian Believe in Reincarnation?

This brief study of reincarnation will be to determine if in good conscience a Christian may believe in reincarnation. You will be surprised!

ocoy.org

Many Bible quotes can be found within that support this concept. I won't spam the page up by listing them all redundantly when the article does a nice enough job. Here is one quote I feel is particularly ironclad:

Genesis 9:6
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

This would not be possible without reincarnation. As you know, many murderers are imprisoned or evade capture and die of natural causes.

The common counterargument to Christian reincarnation is the idea of an eternal hell which is countered here:

Tobit 13:2
“For he doth scourge, and hath mercy: he leadeth down to hell, and bringeth up again: neither is there any that can avoid his hand.”

How can one come out of hell without another chance at life?

On moral grounds, I would reject the concept of eternal hell, as an all-loving God would not create a being to suffer for all eternity. In fact, the Bible says that God will go through great lengths to save everyone, not stopping until He has succeeded.

Luke chapter 15 KJV (King James Version)

Luke chapter 15 KJV (King James Version)

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Furthermore, the idea of a loving God throwing sinners into eternal hell isn't just either - it is a cop-out. If you have an argument with someone, you can't win the argument by silencing them, only by proving them wrong. Evil can't be defeated with violence, only by turning evil to good can it be defeated in a moral sense. Hence, turn the other cheek. The question of good and evil, I would go so far as to say, is the fundamental question of our universe. It is one of the first things written about in the Bible, in Genesis chapter 3. So did God create evil just to lock it away? Or is there in fact a higher purpose to it? My personal theory is that your soul retains memory of its past suffering, and after experiencing evil, becomes more compassionate. Across the cycles, a soul gradually rises in consciousness from a base and evil state to a good and holy state, through toiling and suffering.

Now here is where I am about to get really unorthodox: human souls can transmigrate into animal souls. This is why the Hebrews sacrificed lambs and goats. A Jew repents for his sins by killing HIMSELF in his next life. A penance cycle as a lamb destined for slaughter. Therefore, the spiritual timeline of the world is not the same as the material timeline. A soul can be born to live concurrently with its previous or subsequent incarnation.

Now, how can Jesus atone for the collective sins of all mankind? There is only one possible explanation. Jesus is the Son of Man. The spiritual son, IE. the reincarnation of Man. The sum total of all human incarnations with a fully awakened soul memory.

Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Or in other words: all life in our universe really only has a single soul, which is inferior to God, but is in the process of purifying itself to return to God.

Philosophers have often grappled with the quesion: how can a loving God create a universe filled with so much evil? Well the answer to this is clear: it's a moral lesson. We think there is good and evil but we've really just been screwing ourselves over for thousands of years. Everything we do meets with exact justice because we suffer at our own hands and learn from it.

So whose moral education was this universe created for? The book of Job has the answer.

Job 1
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

 

[Space_Karen]

Genesis 9:6
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

This would not be possible without reincarnation. As you know, many murderers are imprisoned or evade capture and die of natural causes.

Genesis 9:6 another way of saying those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

Which is also paralleled in matthew 26.

Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. -Matthew 26:52

 

[Adam]

Genesis 9:6 another way of saying those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

Which is also paralleled in matthew 26.

Indeed, there are many soldiers and generals who live long and healthy lives and die of old age. Even if we intepret this symbolically, that those who live by the sword die spiritually by the sword, we can't then account for individuals like, for example, King David, who are considered holy, and have killed people in battle.

So if living as a soldier or general doesn't always result in physical death, nor in the destruction of the soul, then what does it mean? It means you are killing another incarnation of yourself.

 

[Space_Karen]

Indeed, there are many soldiers and generals who live long and healthy lives and die of old age. Even if we intepret this symbolically, that those who live by the sword die spiritually by the sword, we can't then account for individuals like, for example, King David, who are considered holy, and have killed people in battle.

So if living as a soldier or general doesn't always result in physical death, nor in the destruction of the soul, then what does it mean? It means you are killing another incarnation of yourself.

If you're searching for evidence of reincarnation in the bible.

The closest thing I can think of is.

When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?” “Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit,” Elisha replied. 2 Kings 2:9

 

[quietthinker]

The Bible supports reincarnation?​

Not a chance! you can be assured of that. .......and know that taking texts taken out of context or misinterpreting them to support erroneous positions is not helpful for you or others.

 

[Space_Karen]

The Bible supports reincarnation?​

Not a chance! you can be assured of that. .......and know that taking texts taken out of context or misinterpreting them to support erroneous positions is not helpful for you or others.

2 kings 2:9

My anthropology class in high school claims followers would inhale the last exhaled breath of dying leaders and prophets.

In this way they would inherit the spirit of the leader or prophet.

This somewhat parallels genesis 2:7 where God breathes life into man:

Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

-Genesis 2:7

Ancient cultures believed they could inherit roles of leadership or spiritualism from others in this fashion.

I think any differences in opinion people have can be settled through friendly discussion.

It certainly is the best format if our goal is learning.

 

[quietthinker]

2 kings 2:9

My anthropology class in high school claims followers would inhale the last exhaled breath of dying leaders and prophets.

In this way they would inherit the spirit of the leader or prophet.

This somewhat parallels genesis 2:7 where God breathes life into man:



Ancient cultures believed they could inherit roles of leadership or spiritualism from others in this fashion.

I think any differences in opinion people have can be settled through friendly discussion.

It certainly is the best format if our goal is learning.

People believe and have believed and taught all sorts of horse-sh.t through history. This does not make it a reference point with any validity.

 

[Aunty Jane]

the idea of a loving God throwing sinners into eternal hell isn't just either - it is a cop-out. If you have an argument with someone, you can't win the argument by silencing them, only by proving them wrong. Evil can't be defeated with violence, only by turning evil to good can it be defeated in a moral sense. Hence, turn the other cheek. The question of good and evil, I would go so far as to say, is the fundamental question of our universe. It is one of the first things written about in the Bible, in Genesis chapter 3. So did God create evil just to lock it away? Or is there in fact a higher purpose to it? My personal theory is that your soul retains memory of its past suffering, and after experiencing evil, becomes more compassionate. Across the cycles, a soul gradually rises in consciousness from a base and evil state to a good and holy state, through toiling and suffering.

Interesting theory but it does not align with the teachings of the Bible....first of all the Jews had no concept of an immortal soul that departed from the body at death.....this is NOT a teaching found anywhere in the OT. Jewish belief depended on a resurrection back to this life because there was no 'heaven or hell' as opposite destinations given to them....there was only life or death.

Deuteronomy 30:19-20...
"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land that Jehovah swore to give to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

What was Adam told about life and death?
In sentencing him for his disobedience, God said....
"In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

There is no "afterlife" ever mentioned in the Hebrew scriptures. That notion was adopted from Greek influence.....the writings of Plato. It is not a Bible teaching at all. So if there is no immortal soul that survives death, then there is nothing to depart and go anywhere....not to heaven...not to a fiery hell...and not reincarnated into some other creature. Death in scripture is the opposite of life.

Now here is where I am about to get really unorthodox: human souls can transmigrate into animal souls. This is why the Hebrews sacrificed lambs and goats. A Jew repents for his sins by killing HIMSELF in his next life. A penance cycle as a lamb destined for slaughter. Therefore, the spiritual timeline of the world is not the same as the material timeline. A soul can be born to live concurrently with its previous or subsequent incarnation.

Nowhere does the Bible even suggest such a thing. There is life and death....and the only way for a human to live again is by resurrection, which is a sound Bible teaching destroyed by a Greek myth.
A "soul" in the Hebrew language is a "breather"....a living, breathing human or animal. Both go to the same place because both breathe the same air and both die the same kind of death. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) A "return to the dust" is what is said for both.
Solomon also wrote in Ecclesiastes 9:5-10....
"For the living know* that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going."
This is what Jews believed. A resurrection is what Jesus demonstrated with his friend Lazarus. (John 11:11-14) He brought him back to life....this life, and returned him to his family.

Now, how can Jesus atone for the collective sins of all mankind? There is only one possible explanation. Jesus is the Son of Man. The spiritual son, IE. the reincarnation of Man. The sum total of all human incarnations with a fully awakened soul memory.

Jesus is a "redeemer".....redemption in Israel was where someone owing a debt could be sold into servitude until the debt was paid. However they could be purchased out of that slavery by someone who paid the exact price of the debt for them.
Jesus was a sinless man who paid the debt that Adam left to all his offspring....he sold his children to sin and death, with no way to pay their way out of it themselves. Because it required a sinless life to be offered for the sinless life that was lost. Christ came from heaven as a sinless man and offered his life for ours. Its a pity that this is hardly taught or understood in Christendom's churches. This is why Jesus was sent by his Father to redeem the human race.

Philosophers have often grappled with the quesion: how can a loving God create a universe filled with so much evil? Well the answer to this is clear: it's a moral lesson. We think there is good and evil but we've really just been screwing ourselves over for thousands of years. Everything we do meets with exact justice because we suffer at our own hands and learn from it.

There is evil in the world because everything in God's creation has an *equal opposite*....everything is in perfect balance.....its a scientific principle, like "cause and effect".
But the only 'opposite' that God wanted to keep to himself was the knowledge of good and evil......he declared that to be his exclusive property.
If only the humans had remained obedient, they would also have remained innocent.....and so would all of their children,
But that is what we will get back....God's original purpose for mankind on this beautifully prepared earth, will be restored. (Revelation 21:2-4)

So whose moral education was this universe created for? The book of Job has the answer.

Job 1
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

I'd lose the old archaic English....it is meaningless in today's world. A dinosaur.
In plain English, it says....
"And Jehovah said to Satan: “Have you taken note of my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth. He is an upright man of integrity, fearing God and shunning what is bad.”

Was God bringing Job to satan's attention....? Or was satan already plotting to dismantle this man's faith to bring him to his knees begging for mercy? Apparently God had taken note of satan's observation of Job.

The next few verses explain even further....
"At that Satan answered Jehovah: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10 Have you not put up a protective hedge around him and his house and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock has spread out in the land. 11 But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your very face.” 12 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only do not lay your hand on the man himself!” So Satan went out from the presence* of Jehovah."

Job was accused of having faith in God only for what he gained out of the relationship....and if he was to lose everything that was meaningful to him, he would curse God to his face! Satan was then given permission to test him, but within the limits set by God himself.

We are all Job at this juncture in history. The devil has demanded to test every one of us to the limit of our endurance.....how are we holding up?
How many are blaming God for their misfortunes....or wondering why he is allowing them to happen? There we have our answer.....

 

[Adam]

The Bible supports reincarnation?​

Not a chance! you can be assured of that. .......and know that taking texts taken out of context or misinterpreting them to support erroneous positions is not helpful for you or others.

How would you interpret this passage then?

Matthew 17
10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”

11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

Now you may say that Elijah ascended bodily so he never died, and then he just returned secretly in disguise as John the Baptist but...

John 1
19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

John the Baptist doesn't think he is Elias/Elijah because his soul memory hasn't awakened, but Jesus recognizes him for who he is.

In fact, John the Baptist was blessed from birth

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Why is this that God favored him FROM BIRTH? How is that just that some people are filled with the holy spirit at conception and others are born to lives of evil and misery? Because of his past lives.

Ecclesiasticus 41:9
And if ye be born, ye shall be born to a curse: and if ye die, a curse shall be your portion.

 

[Mantis]

I don't see any proof for reincarnation in the Bible but I have a scar on my face that I was born with. How does that happen??

 

[Adam]

Interesting theory but it does not align with the teachings of the Bible....first of all the Jews had no concept of an immortal soul that departed from the body at death.....this is NOT a teaching found anywhere in the OT. Jewish belief depended on a resurrection back to this life because there was no 'heaven or hell' as opposite destinations given to them....there was only life or death.

Gilgul

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

The pharisees of Jesus' time believed in reincarnation.

Deuteronomy 30:19-20...
"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land that Jehovah swore to give to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

Life = spiritual life. Death = spiritual death. This concept is invoked several times for example:

Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

More specifically - being in a state of alienation from God, or being in a state of concordance with God.

My personal belief is that God does not force someone to reincarnate against their will. If a soul is sufficiently evil it may refuse God's will and wander the earth as an unclean spirit, until it repents and allows God to reincarnate him. Though this is just conjecture.

What was Adam told about life and death?
In sentencing him for his disobedience, God said....
"In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

I believe this has a double meaning.

Matthrw 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, dMan shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Bread is used often as a metaphor for spiritual communion (IE. the eucharist). I believe the all-loving God doesn't exactly punish, but rather teaches in a way that may appear as a punishment by our limited understanding. By toiling on the Earth, mankind comes closer to God. The physical body can die, but lessons are learnt and maintained that cross into the next body.

There is no "afterlife" ever mentioned in the Hebrew scriptures. That notion was adopted from Greek influence.....the writings of Plato. It is not a Bible teaching at all. So if there is no immortal soul that survives death, then there is nothing to depart and go anywhere....not to heaven...not to a fiery hell...and not reincarnated into some other creature. Death in scripture is the opposite of life.

Luke 16:22-23
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Nowhere does the Bible even suggest such a thing. There is life and death....and the only way for a human to live again is by resurrection, which is a sound Bible teaching destroyed by a Greek myth.
A "soul" in the Hebrew language is a "breather"....a living, breathing human or animal. Both go to the same place because both breathe the same air and both die the same kind of death. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) A "return to the dust" is what is said for both.
Solomon also wrote in Ecclesiastes 9:5-10....
"For the living know* that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going."
This is what Jews believed. A resurrection is what Jesus demonstrated with his friend Lazarus. (John 11:11-14) He brought him back to life....this life, and returned him to his family.

The passage can easily be held to reference the fact that we begin our lives with very little wisdom or knowledge and thus, as we grow in understanding over our lives, we must use that limited time to do as many good works as we can, because our chance will be lost when we die and we will be required to start over with no memory.

Another allusion to an afterlife here:

Luke 23
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

My personal belief is similar to what Plato wrote. That there is a period between reincarnation which one will either suffer or enjoy, depending on the gravity of their souls.

 

[Adam]

Jesus is a "redeemer".....redemption in Israel was where someone owing a debt could be sold into servitude until the debt was paid. However they could be purchased out of that slavery by someone who paid the exact price of the debt for them.
Jesus was a sinless man who paid the debt that Adam left to all his offspring....he sold his children to sin and death, with no way to pay their way out of it themselves. Because it required a sinless life to be offered for the sinless life that was lost. Christ came from heaven as a sinless man and offered his life for ours. Its a pity that this is hardly taught or understood in Christendom's churches. This is why Jesus was sent by his Father to redeem the human race.

Yes that is the metaphor, of someone ransoming a prisoner, but how is it logically justified that one can kill a lamb to repent for sins, or that one life can take on the sins of another? For example, if I kill 100 people then say "I put all my sins on Jesus", then will I escape cosmic justice? No, the Bible says this:

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

The fact is that I am escaping hell by accepting that I will in fact face punishment for this in my next lives, by reincarnating as my own victims. And Jesus himself, having experienced every human life and the sum of humanity's evil, thus became the "ransomer" by paying our debts by being subjected to our evil first hand. Our soul's journey is one to move towards a Christ consciousness, and we can only ascend by living a perfect life free of sin, entirely in service to God and humanity, thus demonstrating that we have passed the test of this world. In order to do this, our cosmic debt must be completely repaid.

There is evil in the world because everything in God's creation has an *equal opposite*....everything is in perfect balance.....its a scientific principle, like "cause and effect".
But the only 'opposite' that God wanted to keep to himself was the knowledge of good and evil......he declared that to be his exclusive property.
If only the humans had remained obedient, they would also have remained innocent.....and so would all of their children,
But that is what we will get back....God's original purpose for mankind on this beautifully prepared earth, will be restored. (Revelation 21:2-4)

It was entirely intentional for Mankind to eat from the tree of good and evil. It was a test of human nature. Once one has changed his perspective of his environment, he can never go back to the ignorance he left behind. It is not God's intention for us to live as beasts forever, but to grow in consciousness. God is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and End. All things begin with God and all things will return to God.

I'd lose the old archaic English....it is meaningless in today's world. A dinosaur.

Today's world is meaningless but ideals are eternal.

In plain English, it says....
"And Jehovah said to Satan: “Have you taken note of my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth. He is an upright man of integrity, fearing God and shunning what is bad.”

Was God bringing Job to satan's attention....? Or was satan already plotting to dismantle this man's faith to bring him to his knees begging for mercy? Apparently God had taken note of satan's observation of Job.

The next few verses explain even further....
"At that Satan answered Jehovah: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10 Have you not put up a protective hedge around him and his house and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock has spread out in the land. 11 But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your very face.” 12 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only do not lay your hand on the man himself!” So Satan went out from the presence* of Jehovah."

Job was accused of having faith in God only for what he gained out of the relationship....and if he was to lose everything that was meaningful to him, he would curse God to his face! Satan was then given permission to test him, but within the limits set by God himself.

We are all Job at this juncture in history. The devil has demanded to test every one of us to the limit of our endurance.....how are we holding up?
How many are blaming God for their misfortunes....or wondering why he is allowing them to happen? There we have our answer.....

The reason I brought up the book of Job is that this entire book seems to have been written for the purpose of teaching a lesson to Satan. How absurd it must seem, for God to allow the prince of evil to completely destroy a good man's life, in order to win what appears to be a bet! How can this be justified? Well, perhaps if a certain serpent were cursed to "crawl upon the earth", then we might see things come full circle. After all, if a shepherd loses 1 sheep, won't he leave the other 99 behind to go look for it? Is the devil an exception? Pure conjecture, but I believe that the final fate of the "ruler of this world" and the "father of lies" will ultimately be to incarnate into it, and perhaps even willingly.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The pharisees of Jesus' time believed in reincarnation.

The Pharisees did not teach the truth of God’s word because they had departed from God’s favour centuries before Jesus was born. They had no belief in reincarnation. Their history of defections from God’s laws is appalling, and hence the reason why they lost their God-given land to those who worshipped foreign deities. When Jesus presented himself for baptism the Jews were in subjection to the Roman Empire. God had kept them in existence only to fulfill his promise to Abraham....to produce the promised seed. Once they had orchestrated the death of their own Messiah, Jehovah abandoned them. (Matthew 23:37-39)

For 2000 years they have denied him, and will continue to do so until they understand the gravity of what they did and continue to do in their denial of the one who came to save them.

Life = spiritual life. Death = spiritual death. This concept is invoked several times for example:

Yes, metaphors are used in scripture to illustrate many things. Since these were every day experiences related to Jesus’ teachings, they were easily understood by the common man....the “lost sheep” to whom Jesus was sent. It doesn’t mean that everything Jesus taught was metaphorical. The death of Lazarus for example was very literal. Lazarus hadn’t gone anywhere....he was still in his grave, and Jesus gave him back his life.

My personal belief is that God does not force someone to reincarnate against their will. If a soul is sufficiently evil it may refuse God's will and wander the earth as an unclean spirit, until it repents and allows God to reincarnate him. Though this is just conjecture.

You need an immortal soul that goes on living after the death of the body to believe in any of that....yet the Bible does not teach that we “have” a soul....it teaches that we are “souls”....as long as we breathe, we are “souls”. Going “back to the dust” means the cessation of life for all souls (both humans and animals), but for humans alone, there is the hope of the resurrection. Jewish belief was in the coming resurrection where those in their tombs would come forth to live again here on earth. There was never a belief in anyone going to heaven.

Jesus had great difficulty getting that message across to his disciples....the fact that there was going to be two completely different resurrections. (Revelation 20:6) If there is a “first” then, logically, another is to follow.
Jesus tried to explain that the Kingdom was in heaven and that a chosen few would be invited by God to hold positions there to rule with Christ, and to act as priests for the ones who would live on earth. Jesus was to call them out of their tombs to resume life on earth with their loved ones. (John 5:28-29, Revelation 21:2-4)

Luke 16:22-23
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

This is a parable among many others. It is not literal.
Hell is “hades”, which in Hebrew is the same as “Sheol”....hades is simply the grave...a place where all the dead are “sleeping” peacefully until they hear Jesus’ voice to come forth.

“Gehenna” (often translated “Hell”) is a whole other concept.

Another allusion to an afterlife here:

Luke 23
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Again if you know what the scriptures teach, you would know that Jesus was in no way promising this thief a place in heaven....nor was he telling this man that he would ‘be in paradise with him that day’. This is in no way a reference to reincarnation.
The Bible tells us that Jesus was in his tomb for three days before God resurrected him.....”put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”. (1 Peter 3:18) He was resurrected as a spirit because no body of flesh can exist in the spirit realm. Flesh is earth bound.

Jesus was not in “paradise” that day.....and paradise is not heaven anyway. The first paradise was here on earth. Since Jesus calls all the dead from their graves, even those who “have done vile things”, the thief was being promised a resurrection back to life on earth with all the ones ransomed by Christ’s death.

My personal belief is similar to what Plato wrote. That there is a period between reincarnation which one will either suffer or enjoy, depending on the gravity of their souls.

My personal belief has nothing to do with what pagan philosophers said or taught.....I base my beliefs entirely on a well studied word of God. There is no reason to add to what is stated there, or to read into ambiguous verses things that the writer never said or believed.

There is no reincarnation in the Bible.....though you are free to believe whatever you wish, you cannot use God’s word to support something Christ, a devout Jew, never taught.

 

[quietthinker]

How would you interpret this passage then?

Matthew 17
10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”

11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

Now you may say that Elijah ascended bodily so he never died, and then he just returned secretly in disguise as John the Baptist but...

John 1
19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

John the Baptist doesn't think he is Elias/Elijah because his soul memory hasn't awakened, but Jesus recognizes him for who he is.

In fact, John the Baptist was blessed from birth

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Why is this that God favored him FROM BIRTH? How is that just that some people are filled with the holy spirit at conception and others are born to lives of evil and misery? Because of his past lives.

Ecclesiasticus 41:9
And if ye be born, ye shall be born to a curse: and if ye die, a curse shall be your portion.

'Elijah' here is used as metaphor. Elijah is a forerunner. In fact the whole scripture is full of it.

Example.....If we were talking politics and I said, 'theres a storm coming' I'm using a metaphor, I'm not talking about a weather event. When Jesus says 'you must be born again' he is talking in metaphor.
Language in all cultures is full of it and discernment is necessary to understand what is being communicated.

 

[ScottA]

Good article on Biblically-supported reincarnation here, though I came to the same conclusion separately:

May a Christian Believe in Reincarnation?

This brief study of reincarnation will be to determine if in good conscience a Christian may believe in reincarnation. You will be surprised!

ocoy.org

Many Bible quotes can be found within that support this concept. I won't spam the page up by listing them all redundantly when the article does a nice enough job. Here is one quote I feel is particularly ironclad:

Genesis 9:6
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

This would not be possible without reincarnation. As you know, many murderers are imprisoned or evade capture and die of natural causes.

The common counterargument to Christian reincarnation is the idea of an eternal hell which is countered here:

Tobit 13:2
“For he doth scourge, and hath mercy: he leadeth down to hell, and bringeth up again: neither is there any that can avoid his hand.”

How can one come out of hell without another chance at life?

On moral grounds, I would reject the concept of eternal hell, as an all-loving God would not create a being to suffer for all eternity. In fact, the Bible says that God will go through great lengths to save everyone, not stopping until He has succeeded.

Luke chapter 15 KJV (King James Version)

Luke chapter 15 KJV (King James Version)

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Furthermore, the idea of a loving God throwing sinners into eternal hell isn't just either - it is a cop-out. If you have an argument with someone, you can't win the argument by silencing them, only by proving them wrong. Evil can't be defeated with violence, only by turning evil to good can it be defeated in a moral sense. Hence, turn the other cheek. The question of good and evil, I would go so far as to say, is the fundamental question of our universe. It is one of the first things written about in the Bible, in Genesis chapter 3. So did God create evil just to lock it away? Or is there in fact a higher purpose to it? My personal theory is that your soul retains memory of its past suffering, and after experiencing evil, becomes more compassionate. Across the cycles, a soul gradually rises in consciousness from a base and evil state to a good and holy state, through toiling and suffering.

Now here is where I am about to get really unorthodox: human souls can transmigrate into animal souls. This is why the Hebrews sacrificed lambs and goats. A Jew repents for his sins by killing HIMSELF in his next life. A penance cycle as a lamb destined for slaughter. Therefore, the spiritual timeline of the world is not the same as the material timeline. A soul can be born to live concurrently with its previous or subsequent incarnation.

Now, how can Jesus atone for the collective sins of all mankind? There is only one possible explanation. Jesus is the Son of Man. The spiritual son, IE. the reincarnation of Man. The sum total of all human incarnations with a fully awakened soul memory.

Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Or in other words: all life in our universe really only has a single soul, which is inferior to God, but is in the process of purifying itself to return to God.

Philosophers have often grappled with the quesion: how can a loving God create a universe filled with so much evil? Well the answer to this is clear: it's a moral lesson. We think there is good and evil but we've really just been screwing ourselves over for thousands of years. Everything we do meets with exact justice because we suffer at our own hands and learn from it.

So whose moral education was this universe created for? The book of Job has the answer.

Job 1
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

No...the Bible does not support reincarnation.

All you have done here is express your own errored observations based on what little you actually know. Keep searching.

If you would like, pick any one passage that you believe supports reincarnation, and I will show you how it does not. Just one.

 

[Adam]

No...the Bible does not support reincarnation.

All you have done here is express your own errored observations based on what little you actually know. Keep searching.

I you would like, pick any one passage that you believe supports reincarnation, and I will show you how it does not. Just one.

John 9
9 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

The man was BORN BLIND and the disciples knew this. They asked Jesus if it was him or his parents that sinned to cause him this curse. How would it be possible for him to sin before he was born unless he were reincarnated?

 

[Adam]

'Elijah' here is used as metaphor. Elijah is a forerunner. In fact the whole scripture is full of it.

Example.....If we were talking politics and I said, 'theres a storm coming' I'm using a metaphor, I'm not talking about a weather event. When Jesus says 'you must be born again' he is talking in metaphor.
Language in all cultures is full of it and discernment is necessary to understand what is being communicated.

It's actually a Biblical prophesy

Malachi 4
5 xBehold, I will send you yElijah the prophet

zBefore the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

So it is necessary for this to be fulfilled in a literal sense because the Bible commands false holy men to be put to death

Deuteronomy 13:5
5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

 

[Adam]

The Pharisees did not teach the truth of God’s word because they had departed from God’s favour centuries before Jesus was born. They had no belief in reincarnation. Their history of defections from God’s laws is appalling, and hence the reason why they lost their God-given land to those who worshipped foreign deities. When Jesus presented himself for baptism the Jews were in subjection to the Roman Empire. God had kept them in existence only to fulfill his promise to Abraham....to produce the promised seed. Once they had orchestrated the death of their own Messiah, Jehovah abandoned them. (Matthew 23:37-39)

For 2000 years they have denied him, and will continue to do so until they understand the gravity of what they did and continue to do in their denial of the one who came to save them.


Yes, metaphors are used in scripture to illustrate many things. Since these were every day experiences related to Jesus’ teachings, they were easily understood by the common man....the “lost sheep” to whom Jesus was sent. It doesn’t mean that everything Jesus taught was metaphorical. The death of Lazarus for example was very literal. Lazarus hadn’t gone anywhere....he was still in his grave, and Jesus gave him back his life.

You need an immortal soul that goes on living after the death of the body to believe in any of that....yet the Bible does not teach that we “have” a soul....it teaches that we are “souls”....as long as we breathe, we are “souls”. Going “back to the dust” means the cessation of life for all souls (both humans and animals), but for humans alone, there is the hope of the resurrection. Jewish belief was in the coming resurrection where those in their tombs would come forth to live again here on earth. There was never a belief in anyone going to heaven.

Jesus had great difficulty getting that message across to his disciples....the fact that there was going to be two completely different resurrections. (Revelation 20:6) If there is a “first” then, logically, another is to follow.
Jesus tried to explain that the Kingdom was in heaven and that a chosen few would be invited by God to hold positions there to rule with Christ, and to act as priests for the ones who would live on earth. Jesus was to call them out of their tombs to resume life on earth with their loved ones. (John 5:28-29, Revelation 21:2-4)

This is a parable among many others. It is not literal.
Hell is “hades”, which in Hebrew is the same as “Sheol”....hades is simply the grave...a place where all the dead are “sleeping” peacefully until they hear Jesus’ voice to come forth.

“Gehenna” (often translated “Hell”) is a whole other concept.


Again if you know what the scriptures teach, you would know that Jesus was in no way promising this thief a place in heaven....nor was he telling this man that he would ‘be in paradise with him that day’. This is in no way a reference to reincarnation.
The Bible tells us that Jesus was in his tomb for three days before God resurrected him.....”put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”. (1 Peter 3:18) He was resurrected as a spirit because no body of flesh can exist in the spirit realm. Flesh is earth bound.

Jesus was not in “paradise” that day.....and paradise is not heaven anyway. The first paradise was here on earth. Since Jesus calls all the dead from their graves, even those who “have done vile things”, the thief was being promised a resurrection back to life on earth with all the ones ransomed by Christ’s death.


My personal belief has nothing to do with what pagan philosophers said or taught.....I base my beliefs entirely on a well studied word of God. There is no reason to add to what is stated there, or to read into ambiguous verses things that the writer never said or believed.

There is no reincarnation in the Bible.....though you are free to believe whatever you wish, you cannot use God’s word to support something Christ, a devout Jew, never taught.

Due to time constrains I can only respond in brief

Ecclesiastes 12
7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

 

[quietthinker]

It's actually a Biblical prophesy

Malachi 4
5 xBehold, I will send you yElijah the prophet

zBefore the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

So it is necessary for this to be fulfilled in a literal sense because the Bible commands false holy men to be put to death

Deuteronomy 13:5
5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

You must not have heard my previous post Adam (#14) where I state that 'Elijah' is used as metaphor. If you do not understand the word 'metaphor' look it up on an online dictionary!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes that is the metaphor, of someone ransoming a prisoner, but how is it logically justified that one can kill a lamb to repent for sins, or that one life can take on the sins of another? For example, if I kill 100 people then say "I put all my sins on Jesus", then will I escape cosmic justice? No, the Bible says this:

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Lambs represent innocence, and it was their blood that atoned for sin in Israel temporarily. The blood of animals needed to be offered by sacrifice so that the people felt the loss of something valuable in atoning for their sins, before God sent his own Lamb into the world to pay Adam’s debt in a permanent way.

The fact that we will reap what we sow is an inescapable truth. Consequences are not often in the thoughts of those tempted into sin.....so a hasty decision to do wrong can result in dire consequences for the rest of our lives. Those who repent can be forgiven, but God will not remove the result of our sin, which can cost a life or last for the duration of our life. King David experienced this. None can escape those consequences.

The fact is that I am escaping hell by accepting that I will in fact face punishment for this in my next lives, by reincarnating as my own victims. And Jesus himself, having experienced every human life and the sum of humanity's evil, thus became the "ransomer" by paying our debts by being subjected to our evil first hand. Our soul's journey is one to move towards a Christ consciousness, and we can only ascend by living a perfect life free of sin, entirely in service to God and humanity, thus demonstrating that we have passed the test of this world. In order to do this, our cosmic debt must be completely repaid.

No one escapes “Hell” (hades) because it awaits all who live and die in this world....one of the two certainties in life. But you need to understand the difference between “hades” and “Gehenna”. Do you?

Hades is the common grave of all mankind......Gehenna OTOH, is a metaphorical place where the wicked are cast with no hope of living again. It is called the “second death” because the first death is the one we inherit from Adam and can be reversed by resurrection, whereas the second death is what we experience when we fail to obey all the laws of God once we have dedicated our life to God as a disciple of his son. It is a place where there is no forgiveness and life is withdrawn completely. It is eternal death.

It was entirely intentional for Mankind to eat from the tree of good and evil. It was a test of human nature. Once one has changed his perspective of his environment, he can never go back to the ignorance he left behind. It is not God's intention for us to live as beasts forever, but to grow in consciousness. God is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and End. All things begin with God and all things will return to God.

If it was intentional then the command not to eat from the fruit was meaningless. God gave his children (made in his image) free will.....it was the abuse of free will that got the first humans into trouble because the devil was observing and plotting a way to gain their worship for himself. He did that by lying to the woman about the fruit they were told not to eat. He said it would make them “like God”.....did it? He also said that they “would not die”....the beliefs you are offering are just a continuation of that lie. We do die and there is nothing we can do to prevent death.....the Bible offers only one solution.....but the devil offers several.

The reason I brought up the book of Job is that this entire book seems to have been written for the purpose of teaching a lesson to Satan. How absurd it must seem, for God to allow the prince of evil to completely destroy a good man's life, in order to win what appears to be a bet! How can this be justified?

Jehovah took the long term view, which for humans is difficult with such a limited life span.
God did not allow Job’s trials for no good reason......he used the devil’s intentions to teach us something about why the devil targets the faithful in order to separate them from God. And what it takes on the part of the faithful one to get through such a trial. Job was rewarded for his faithful endurance in the face of extreme adversity and God then blessed him with 10 more children and he died old and satisfied with his life. But Job also believed in the resurrection, so in the world to come he will be reunited with all his children to enjoy paradise forever with them as God intended at the outset.

if a shepherd loses 1 sheep, won't he leave the other 99 behind to go look for it? Is the devil an exception? Pure conjecture, but I believe that the final fate of the "ruler of this world" and the "father of lies" will ultimately be to incarnate into it, and perhaps even willingly.

What is the basis for Christ to act as redeemer? The ones covered by his blood are only those who inherited sin from Adam...the ones sold into slavery to sin and death through no fault on their part.....this does not cover the perpetrators of the crime, who were all originally created without defect and who had no valid reason or excuse to disobey their Sovereign.

None of the first rebels will receive for God’s forgiveness, because they do not qualify under God’s provision of the redemption. These will indeed “reap what they sowed” because they will never live again. The devil will go into an abyss with his demon hoards for a thousand years while God brings the benefits of Christ’s ransom to the redeemed ones on earth, and after one final test, he too will be thrown into “the lake of fire” to be destroyed with everything else that is already in there. (Revelation 20:1-3)

As I said...you are free to believe whatever you wish, but please understand that those who want to believe their own ideas, if they are contrary to what God’s word teaches, will not be rewarded as they assume.
God’s original purpose for mankind will go ahead, with us or without us.......hopefully if we can see through the deceptions of the devil, we will be among those "saved" through the destruction of the devil's entire world system of things.