The One Baptism

[Charlie24]

I do have proof. You just don't want to accept it.



The proof is in this form:

P1. At the end of a book (Matthew), a profoundly significant statement is made inconsistent with what was said up until that point. (This alone is suspicious.)
P2. Other books (Acts, Romans, Corinthians, Galatians) contradict this profound statement.
C. The suspicion is logically proven as a contradiction and is therefore, untrue.
​

Did you even read the link? You have not answered the question of Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord?

Further evidence is in the link I provided, which you apparently did not read:

Eusebius was present at the council of Nicea and was involved in the debates between Arias and the pagan view of Athanasius that became the trinity doctrine. If the manuscripts he had in front of him read “in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” he would never have quoted instead, “in my name.” So it appears that the earliest manuscripts read “in my name,” and the phrase was enlarged to reflect the orthodox position as Trinitarian influence spread.​

Yes, I read the link and it's all theory! Long before the 4th century there was record of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

But you believe what you will, it really doesn't matter to me, we will all know who Christ is soon enough.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, I read the link and it's all theory!

Untrue. I showed the historical record.

Long before the 4th century there was record of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Not in Matthew's concluding verses.

 

[Charlie24]

Untrue. I showed the historical record.


Not in Matthew's concluding verses.

It's amazing how that the history after the Scripture is picked on and the rest discarded according to ones belief.

If we choose to go with history there will always be doubt, so in reality we are both guessing with the emphasis on what we already believe, we simply fit that history into our way.

 

[RLT63]

He plainly said it in Matt. 28:19, unless you believe some heretic added that into Scripture.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Matthew 28:19 is the same in the modern versions of the Bible which are based on the Alexandrian texts which scholars claim are the oldest and closest to the original

 

[theefaith]

Baptized by a fellow Jew, and not in the Roman Catholic Church.

I’m told by @theefaith that the only real Christians are Roman Catholics.

I’m also told by theefaith that Jesus himself was Roman Catholic. (Maybe he thinks John the Baptist was also Roman Catholic?) I’m not sure exactly how that works but it’s historically inaccurate. I take it that it’s a purely theologically driven position.

the baptism of John was only for repentance and preparation for the coming of Christ and His sacraments

 

[Matthias]

the baptism of John was only for repentance and preparation for the coming of Christ and His sacraments

John the Bapstist is a Jewish prophet, as is Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

It's amazing how that the history after the Scripture is picked on and the rest discarded according to ones belief.

No. According to the insight gained from answering my question.

You have not answered the question of Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord?

It's amazing how trinitarians cannot answer simple questions or explain verses that do not fit their doctrine.

 

[theefaith]

How can this be?

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in thebosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Why is the verse saying “God the father”?

If only the father is God why give such a description?

why not just God?
Or just the father?

 

[theefaith]

No. According to the insight gained from answering my question.



It's amazing how trinitarians cannot answer simple questions or explain verses that do not fit their doctrine.

the nature of the father is Divine!
Jn 6:27

 

[theefaith]

Ex 20:3-5
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lordthy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Only God may be worshipped!


Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Matthew 8:2
And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Matthew 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Matthew 14:33
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 15:25
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

John 9:38
And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

Matt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Either Jesus is God or a blasphemer and false prophet for allowing himself to be worshipped!

 

[Enoch111]

IF water baptism were necessary, the malefactor hanging next to Jesus missed out AND sort of makes Jesus’ Words to THAT malefactor, irrelevant.

Water baptism is not necessary for salvation, but it is necessary for sanctification. This is the first commandment of Christ which must be obeyed after conversion.

 

[Taken]

Water baptism is not necessary for salvation, but it is necessary for sanctification. This is the first commandment of Christ which must be obeyed after conversion.

Disagree. Sanctification IS The Lord setting a Saved and Born Again Person APART from those who are Not saved and Born Again.

It’s a DIVISION.
And that DIVISION will later determine the SEPARATION.
And that DIVISION is Established By WHOM has been Baptized VIA the Holy Spirit, and WHOM has not.

Historically Jews, offered repentance for their years sin, via a particular animal offering, IN their Temple.
Jews went through a SHORT awkward period...
Their Messiah arrives....not what they expected.
They hearing About Him, Few Hearing Him, Most Hearing sporadic Teachings, and then their Temple destroyed.
......What was their Recourse for Forgiveness of Sins?
John the Jewish Water Baptizer...Baptizing with Water for forgiveness of Sins.
..... The Apostles continued Jesus’ works, teaching the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
.... The Apostles teaching, Jesus’ Blood given for the Forgiveness of mens Sins.

.... Water Baptism satisfies the Eyes of men.
.... Water Baptism is satisfactory for a man to become entered on the membership roles of man-made churches.
.... Water Baptism is (not spontaneous) but rather a “scheduled” ritual many man-made churches have adopted.
.... Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is One man Establishing A freewill choosing of a FOREVER relationship with the Lord God Almighty, that IS only TRULY KNOWN, between that One man and God.

Any other men trying to determine IF an other IS OR IS NOT Born Again...” is not by a water baptismal certificate “.... but rather BY what the other man SPEAKS and DOES....a mans (Fruits) regarding God.
Speaks AGAINST God......Not born again.
Advocates AGAINST God...Not born again.

The Point is landing on IS water Baptism Required or not.
I say it is Offered, but NO it is not required.

Any heartfully believing man can be Baptized BY the Spirit of God, With the Spirit God, without being Baptized by men in a pool of water.

 

[Marymog]

Pray for the answer, the Spirit will guide you in all truth. Ask God to give you the discernment between your mocking post and mine (no LOL, no sarcastic 'got it' or 'thanks'. No twisting of who has the burden).

Thanks Wrangler. In a previous post I admitted that at times I do mock others. You have a blind spot to your own deficiencies. That is my problem, not yours.

So back to the original discussion since we are getting off into the weeds as they say...whoever "they" are.

In post #235 I showed you how what your men have taught you is not supported by Scripture. At no point in Scripture does it say NOT to baptize infants or TO baptize infants. Therefor neither YOU nor I have rock solid Scriptural evidence to support either of our positions. Scripture and historical Christian writings from the time DOES strongly suggest that infants were baptized and should be baptized. I showed you how an Apostolic Father (a student of an Apostle) taught opposite of what your 15th century men taught you.

So, my question to you is: Why do you NOT believe the writings/teachings of a man who was a student of an Apostle but believe the writings/teachings of men who lived 1,600 years later?

Curious Mary

 

[Wrangler]

At no point in Scripture does it say NOT to baptize infants or TO baptize infants. Therefor neither YOU nor I have rock solid Scriptural evidence to support either of our positions.

Strawman. The Bible ONLY has examples of adults being baptized. Was your lord baptized as an adult or an infant?

I rest my case.

So, my question to you is: Why do you NOT believe the writings/teachings of a man who was a student of an Apostle but believe the writings/teachings of men who lived 1,600 years later?

False Alternative. I believe Scripture not other men and rely on my own capacity to reason rather than what others tell me.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: The One Baptism?

one must realize that the word "Baptism" is not always referring to water!

Still True!

...What are The Purposes of the baptisms?...

continued from post #291, with 2 Dozen Passages on:
The The Purpose of water baptism:

Next [still headed toward "The ONE Baptism"] we should now further
expand on the Purpose of:

Christ's Baptism "WITH" The Holy Spirit, Correct?
​

Already touched on was The Biblical Fact that this is the THIRD
Requirement [Anointing] Of God for Israelites to be inducted
into the priesthood. There are Also:

1) God's Promise, according to prophecy:

Joel_2:27 "And ye shall know that I AM in the midst of Israel,
and that I AM The LORD your God, and none else: and My
people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass
afterward, that I Will Pour out My Spirit..."​

2) God's prophecy Fulfilled:

Acts_2:16-17 "But this is that which was spoken by the
prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days,
Saith God, I Will Pour out of My Spirit..."​

3)
Are These not the same as "Christ Baptizing "WITH" The Holy Spirit
as John, the baptizer, said?:

Luke_3:16 "John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed
baptize you with water; but ONE Mightier than I cometh,
the latchet of Whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose:
He Shall Baptize you "WITH" The Holy Ghost..."
​

4) And, is this baptism not for the following?:

a) power:

Luke_24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of My Father
upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be
endued with power from on high.

Acts_1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy
Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto
Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria,
and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
​

b) signs and wonders:

Mark_16:17 "And these signs shall follow them
that believe; In My Name shall they cast out
devils; they shall speak with new tongues"
​

Biblical Confirmation:

Mark_16:20 And they went forth, and preached every
where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the
word with signs following. Amen.

Acts_2:43 "And fear came upon every soul: and many
wonders and signs were done by the apostles."

Acts_4:30 "By stretching forth Thine Hand to heal; and
that signs and wonders may be done by the Name of
Thy Holy Child Jesus."

Acts_5:12 "And by the hands of the apostles were
many signs and wonders wrought among the people;
(and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch."

Acts_6:8 "And Stephen, full of faith and power, did
great wonders and miracles among the people."

Acts_8:6 "And the people with one accord gave heed
unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and
seeing the miracles which he did."

Acts_8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and
when he was baptized, he continued with Philip,
and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs
which were done."
​

Conclusion:

1) Together then we see these Two baptisms at Pentecost,
God's Will Under prophecy, Correct?

2) Is this still God's program for us, today?

3) If so, was ONE these baptisms perchance Cancelled, leaving only one?

to be continued in The ONE Baptism?...
---------------------
Grace,
Peace, And JOY In The LORD, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!

 

[Charlie24]

op: The One Baptism?

Still True!

continued from post #291, with 2 Dozen Passages on:
The The Purpose of water baptism:

Next [still headed toward "The ONE Baptism"] we should now further
expand on the Purpose of:

Christ's Baptism "WITH" The Holy Spirit, Correct?
​

Already touched on was The Biblical Fact that this is the THIRD
Requirement [Anointing] Of God for Israelites to be inducted
into the priesthood. There are Also:

1) God's Promise, according to prophecy:

Joel_2:27 "And ye shall know that I AM in the midst of Israel,
and that I AM The LORD your God, and none else: and My
people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass
afterward, that I Will Pour out My Spirit..."​

2) God's prophecy Fulfilled:

Acts_2:16-17 "But this is that which was spoken by the
prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days,
Saith God, I Will Pour out of My Spirit..."​

3)
Are These not the same as "Christ Baptizing "WITH" The Holy Spirit
as John, the baptizer, said?:

Luke_3:16 "John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed
baptize you with water; but ONE Mightier than I cometh,
the latchet of Whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose:
He Shall Baptize you "WITH" The Holy Ghost..."
​

4) And, is this baptism not for the following?:

a) power:

Luke_24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of My Father
upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be
endued with power from on high.

Acts_1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy
Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto
Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria,
and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
​

b) signs and wonders:

Mark_16:17 "And these signs shall follow them
that believe; In My Name shall they cast out
devils; they shall speak with new tongues"
​

Biblical Confirmation:

Mark_16:20 And they went forth, and preached every
where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the
word with signs following. Amen.

Acts_2:43 "And fear came upon every soul: and many
wonders and signs were done by the apostles."

Acts_4:30 "By stretching forth Thine Hand to heal; and
that signs and wonders may be done by the Name of
Thy Holy Child Jesus."

Acts_5:12 "And by the hands of the apostles were
many signs and wonders wrought among the people;
(and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch."

Acts_6:8 "And Stephen, full of faith and power, did
great wonders and miracles among the people."

Acts_8:6 "And the people with one accord gave heed
unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and
seeing the miracles which he did."

Acts_8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and
when he was baptized, he continued with Philip,
and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs
which were done."
​

Conclusion:

1) Together then we see these Two baptisms at Pentecost,
God's Will Under prophecy, Correct?

2) Is this still God's program for us, today?

3) If so, was ONE these baptisms perchance Cancelled, leaving only one?

to be continued in The ONE Baptism?...
---------------------
Grace,
Peace, And JOY In The LORD, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!

The One Baptism of the OP is pertaining to our salvation, that is what I have shown.

The baptism of receiving the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues is another subject.

If you want to discuss that or prove that I can tell you right now, you can't prove it or disprove it still active in the Church today.

The Pentecostals have several good points for the gifts continuing throughout the Church Age. Paul said these gifts will cease when "that which is perfect is come." Now if you can prove that which is perfect is the complete cannon of Scripture or another identification that occurred earlier in the Last Days, then you have an answer.

But if you can't, then the Pentecostals claim when "that which is perfect is come" is the resurrection which means the gifts will cease at the end of the Church Age.

The problem with it all is that neither side can prove from Scripture their case. Although both sides have convincing arguments.

 

[RLT63]

No. According to the insight gained from answering my question.



It's amazing how trinitarians cannot answer simple questions or explain verses that do not fit their doctrine.

You do have a point about how in Acts everyone is always baptized in the name of Jesus. My ex father in law was UPC and he thought everyone should be baptized in the name of Jesus. He believed Matthew 28:19 had been added to the Bible by the Catholic Church. I don't think there's any evidence of that but in Acts they always baptized in the name of Jesus, that's true.

 

[Wrangler]

My ex father in law was UPC

What is UPC?

He believed Matthew 28:19 had been added to the Bible by the Catholic Church. I don't think there's any evidence of that but in Acts they always baptized in the name of Jesus, that's true.

Did you see my link on the history of it from a historian present at the Council of Nicea?

 

[RLT63]

What is UPC?



Did you see my link on the history of it from a historian present at the Council of Nicea?

United Pentecostal Church. They believe Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit so they are a type of Unitarians. Yes your link was interesting.

 

[Taken]

United Pentecostal Church. They believe Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit so they are a type of Unitarians.

Thanks for sharing.

Seems men have caused a funky division...
Jesus is three...Unitarian....all three IS ONE God
God is three.....Trinitarian...all three IS ONE God

Baptize in the Name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit...?

Consider the Apostles, expressly chosen, taught, and sent out to Teach, by Jesus Himself....

Acts: 2:
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.