"All things are lawful..."

[VictoryinJesus]

a combination of contradictory or incongruous words(such as cruel kindness)

cruel kindness

my mother who is ninety forgets her daughters have cameras to keep watch for when she falls and needs help up. The other day my mom was going on and on about how sweet and kind she is all the time, and how she never says a cruel word about anyone. I kept my mouth shut. At this point she forgets most of what she says or does. We were sitting at the table and she started on my older sister …saying how she is nothing but a hungry money grabber out to steal all her money as soon as she dies. I knew my sister was watching on camera. I said “mom, I thought you don’t ever say a bad word about anyone?”

She said “it is not cruel to tell the truth. All I do is tell the truth. So what if the truth hurts.”

I said “that is what the church says, mom. I tell you the truth because I love you.”

cruel kindness…an oxymoron.
“All things are lawful…”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Actually, according to Paul's gospel message, when you know you are secure with God through faith in Christ, not by obeying the law, you will lead a far m0re holy life. If you look to the law, and believe righteousness hinges on obeying it, the opposite will be true

Correct! As Paul said in corinthians the law is a ministry of death and makes sin exceedingly sinful, and exposes the sin in our members.

 

[Phoneman777]

Still to me Romans 14 is helpful with your topic. I wasn’t necessarily thinking of foods either but people …because of the opening about receiving him who is weak. After posting this morning another that has been on my mind is “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me”. to me that speaks again of His giving strength to those weak and without strength unto edification. The topic (unless I’ve misunderstood) is: all things are lawful but not all things edify. “I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength.” unless I’ve misunderstood, Christ giving strength is to “edify”.

Philippians 4:13-15 I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. [14] Notwithstanding you have well done, that you did communicate with my affliction. [15] Now you Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but you only. Romans 14 also talks in depth about the giving and receiving (even opening with receive him who is weak.)
Significant is “no church communicated with me concerning giving and receiving, but you only.”

Again instead of the all things are lawful …to me the point seems to be yet “not all things edify.” Personally I don’t think that means not all things edify ourself, but instead not all things edify another. Which to me isn’t what Christ did (edify himself) but instead became weak that we be made strong. Giving and receiving?

As long as we understand that "all things are lawful" doesn't include worshiping Satan or murder - unfortunately, that's what many Christians actually believe: that "freedom in Christ" means "freedom from punishment if we break the Ten Commandments".

 

[Phoneman777]

I highly doubt Paul included any of these sins in what was lawful for him.

Amen amen

 

[MatthewG]

Paul of course was very different than us @Heart2Soul, having been born under the Law.

He had murdered Christians himself.

Then he found Gods grace when Jesus had come into his life.

Paul Tells of His Past Life
22 Paul said, “Brothers and fathers, listen to what I have to say to you.” 2 When they heard him speak to them in their own language, they stopped making noise. Then he said,

3 “I am a Jew. I was born in the city of Tarsus in the country of Cilicia. When I was a young man, I lived here in Jerusalem. I went to Gamaliel’s school and learned all about the Law of our early fathers. I worked hard for God as you all do today.

4 “I worked hard and killed men and women who believed as I believe today. I put them in chains and sent them to prison. 5 The head religious leader and the leaders of the people can tell you this is true. I got letters from them to take to our Jewish brothers in the city of Damascus. I was going there to put the Christians in chains and bring them to Jerusalem where they would be beaten.

 

[MatthewG]

So it is lawful by the Law of Moses to put to death a person who doesn't keep the Sabbath day? Exodus 35:2

Absolutely it is. However, due to Jesus Christ having fulfilled all things, there is no reason to do such things!

Praise be to God and the Lord Jesus Christ for what they have done changing the world for the better.

 

[Phoneman777]

Scriptures should not be taken out of context. Paul is addressing the issue of dietary restrictions:

THE ISSUE OF DIETARY RESTRICTIONS
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. 24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth. 25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles [marketplace], that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

While the Law of Moses had many dietary restrictions, the Law of Christ has practically none. See Acts 15. So these passages are NOT about a license to sin at all.

Passage goes BEYOND dietary issues by mentioning "wealth" - you don't eat money, which is why others point to this verse as an excuse to say "all things" including breaking the Ten Commandments are lawful.

BTW, not only are there now dietary restrictions for Christians against eating mice and pork, but Isaiah says anyone found with that on their menu at the fiery coming of Christ will be "consumed together" with idolaters who worship in the groves. (Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV). Read it for yourself, bro.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well I am OSAS , hardcore! And I do not believe in grace as a license to sin. As I have pretty much given up on christian media- I know McGee but not the others.

But all the churches I know ( and I know many) all believe in OSAS and also preach holiness with a vengeance!

Impossible: you can't be OSAS and not think you have a License to Sin in your pocket because that's exactly what a License is: the power to escape punishment for doing the exact same thing for which the unLicensed will suffer. By name and exposition, that's exactly what OSAS is.

Two men standing in a stream fishing, the one Licensed and the other not. The Game Warden will tip his hat to the first while he pulls out his citation book for the other, right or wrong?

 

[Enoch111]

Passage goes BEYOND dietary issues by mentioning "wealth"

There's nothing about wealth in these passages. And you have taken the passage from Isaiah out of context.

 

[Phoneman777]

Noone teaches what you just wrote, who is a real born again believer.

Stop making things up, just to Troll the forum because you are of the "OSAS cult" that hates the Grace of God and has re-invented it as "license to sin" just to suit your Gospel of Self Saving Legalism, Phoneman777.

We're told not to judge who is and who isn't born again, and you'd do well to remember Christ's Judgment seat is only big enough for Him alone.

Also, how dare you accuse me of "making things up"? Just who do you think you are? You'd do well to remember there's people like me who've got more time standing in front a church urinal than you've got on the topside of the Earth, and we've not only seen a heck of a lot more than you, but we've been fighting against the unBiblical views you hold since before you even learned to read, understand?

 

[Phoneman777]

There's nothing about wealth in these passages. And you have taken the passage from Isaiah out of context.

Wrong. Paul specifically mentions "wealth", and the Gospel Prophet clearly is talking about the Second Coming, fiery appearance of Jesus in chapter 66:15-17 KJV when he says those who eat mice and pork will be consumed together with idolatry in the groves. The "taken out of context" defense simply doesn't work here, friend:

[15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire (fiery Second Coming), and with his chariots like a whirlwind (Scripture calls the Holy Angels "chariots"), to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword (Paul refers to the "sword of His mouth...at the brightness of His coming) will the Lord plead with all flesh (the entire human race): and the slain of the Lord shall be many (Jeremiah says "And the slain of the Lord at that day shall be from one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth").
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together (in said fire), saith the Lord.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As long as we understand that "all things are lawful" doesn't include worshiping Satan or murder - unfortunately, that's what many Christians actually believe: that "freedom in Christ" means "freedom from punishment if we break the Ten Commandments".

See though that is why I brought up Romans 14. Because it talks about destroying a brother for who Christ died, and so you sin against Christ. “Destroy” to me is akin to murder even though it isn’t picking up a gun and shooting someone, it is destroying. But (only an opinion) there is never any focus on that murder of another. Is it because we can say we haven’t picked up a gun so therefore we haven’t destroyed? Same with stealing which is one of the 10 commandments. It is easier to say I haven’t broken into someone’s home and stole what belongs to them. BUT have I stolen the words of God from another therefore having indeed stolen from another?
Matthew 13:18-19 Hear you therefore the parable of the sower. [19] When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Same with the Sabbath maybe I do go to church and do no work on the sabbath, but do I still work promoting my own goodness apart from Him instead of resting and abiding in Him? You said as long as you know it is not ok to murder…I’m telling you by what I read in Romans 14 and elsewhere in the word that it is not ok to destroy another but instead we are called to edify? Should I put the focus on killing literally and forget and ignore I can destroy another with not a gun but destroy them just as well with my words? You said as long as I know I shouldn’t murder our brother…do we know yet that we shouldn't destroy another but are instead called to edify another?

 

[Behold]

We're told not to judge who is and who isn't born again, ?

The born again are actually to judge others....."by their fruit you shall know them".
Also, "he that is Spiritual, judgeth all things"...

This is spiritual discernment, that can't be performed by someone who is water baptized and religious, who thinks this is Salvation.

What you are referring to as "judging".. is assessing someone, using carnal judgementalism, and that's a work of the flesh.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Wrong. Paul specifically mentions "wealth", and the Gospel Prophet clearly is talking about the Second Coming, fiery appearance of Jesus in chapter 66:15-17 KJV when he says those who eat mice and pork will be consumed together with idolatry in the groves. The "taken out of context" defense simply doesn't work here, friend:

[15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire (fiery Second Coming), and with his chariots like a whirlwind (Scripture calls the Holy Angels "chariots"), to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword (Paul refers to the "sword of His mouth...at the brightness of His coming) will the Lord plead with all flesh (the entire human race): and the slain of the Lord shall be many (Jeremiah says "And the slain of the Lord at that day shall be from one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth").
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together (in said fire), saith the Lord.

Curious why you didn’t highlight
They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst

 

[Behold]

Impossible: you can't be OSAS and not think you have a License to Sin

There is no such thing as "License to sin".
This is a cult idea, that is created by people who do not understand God's Grace and have redefined it as "license" or "licentiousness".
This CULT, of OSAS, changed the Grace of God, into their Theology of : "this means you can do anything".
So, its only these OSAS heretics who believe that, as no real born again believer would ever believe or teach that God's Grace, the forgiveness of all sin, is a license to freely live unholy without any consequence.

No born again believer teaches such a deceit, yet the OSAS Cult teaches that this is taught.
Its an incredible lie, that is continually taught/spread/repeated by Cross denying devil deceived liars on Forums and from Pulpits.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Impossible: you can't be OSAS and not think you have a License to Sin in your pocket because that's exactly what a License is: the power to escape punishment for doing the exact same thing for which the unLicensed will suffer. By name and exposition, that's exactly what OSAS is.

Two men standing in a stream fishing, the one Licensed and the other not. The Game Warden will tip his hat to the first while he pulls out his citation book for the other, right or wrong?

Maybe in your mindset one cannot, but I know AS WELL AS MY CHURCH AND HUNDREDS OF OTHER CHURCHES WHO KNOW OSAS IS BIBLICAL. For we know how deep salvation goes.

Teh power to escape punishment is the blood Jesus shed- not me failing. We are called to live holy, and we are called to acknowledge when we sin.

And no you are either through ignorance or deliberate salander misrepresenting what teh biblical teaching we dub OSAS is.

YOU BELIEVE JESUS BLOOD DID NOT WASH AWAY ALL YOU R SINS THEN.

yOU BELIEVE THAT IF ONE CAN LOSE THEIR SALVATION, jESUS DID NOT FORGIVE ALL THEIR SINS ON TEH CROSS.

And those are only a few of teh biblical conclusions that result from believing one can lose their salvation

 

[Phoneman777]

See though that is why I brought up Romans 14. Because it talks about destroying a brother for who Christ died, and so you sin against Christ. “Destroy” to me is akin to murder even though it isn’t picking up a gun and shooting someone, it is destroying. But (only an opinion) there is never any focus on that murder of another. Is it because we can say we haven’t picked up a gun so therefore we haven’t destroyed? Same with stealing which is one of the 10 commandments. It is easier to say I haven’t broken into someone’s home and stole what belongs to them. BUT have I stolen the words of God from another therefore having indeed stolen from another?
Matthew 13:18-19 Hear you therefore the parable of the sower. [19] When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Same with the Sabbath maybe I do go to church and do no work on the sabbath, but do I still work promoting my own goodness apart from Him instead of resting and abiding in Him? You said as long as you know it is not ok to murder…I’m telling you by what I read in Romans 14 and elsewhere in the word that it is not ok to destroy another but instead we are called to edify? Should I put the focus on killing literally and forget and ignore I can destroy another with not a gun but destroy them just as well with my words? You said as long as I know I shouldn’t murder our brother…do we know yet that we shouldn't destroy another but are instead called to edify another?

You speak truth, friend. What you are pointing out is the "spirit of the law", which if we keep it, we by default will be keeping the "letter of the law" because it's impossible to keep the former without keeping the latter, right or wrong? Can we say we "love" the neighbor we've just murdered in cold blood. No, if we love our neighbor, we won't murder him, steal from him, sleep with his unscrupulous wife, or lead him away from worshiping God.

Leviticus 19 defines Biblical "hate" as failing to point out sin in the lives of those who claim to be righteous. If one believes the unBiblical doctrine that Jesus is going to sneak into town and sneak out with the saints in a "secret rapture", then our message means nothing. However, to those who believe the truth, the last warning message to the entire world found in Revelation 12:6-12 KJV, it's time to open our Bibles, read these warnings, and prayerfully ask God to direct us to those who can explain them, as did the Ethiopian in the chariot asked for one to explain what he read.

 

[Phoneman777]

The born again are actually to judge others....."by their fruit you shall know them".
Also, "he that is Spiritual, judgeth all things"...

This is spiritual discernment, that can't be performed by someone who is water baptized and religious, who thinks this is Salvation.

What you are referring to as "judging".. is assessing someone, using carnal judgementalism, and that's a work of the flesh.

The born again are actually to judge others....."by their fruit you shall know them".
Also, "he that is Spiritual, judgeth all things"...

This is spiritual discernment, that can't be performed by someone who is water baptized and religious, who thinks this is Salvation.

What you are referring to as "judging".. is assessing someone, using carnal judgementalism, and that's a work of the flesh.

Wrong. "False prophet" status applies only to those who speak deliberate error, not those who have not yet been fully enlightened on a subject and, in some cases, seek rebaptism once truth has fully come.

In any case, please stop calling into question a person's spiritual status because you can't answer a Biblical argument with Biblical reasoning, OK? It's stubborn error such as yours which leads to compounded delusion rather than spiritual enlightenment.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You speak truth, friend. What you are pointing out is the "spirit of the law", which if we keep it, we by default will be keeping the "letter of the law" because it's impossible to keep the former without keeping the latter, right or wrong? Can we say we "love" the neighbor we've just murdered in cold blood. No, if we love our neighbor, we won't murder him, steal from him, sleep with his unscrupulous wife, or lead him away from worshiping God.

Leviticus 19 defines Biblical "hate" as failing to point out sin in the lives of those who claim to be righteous. If one believes the unBiblical doctrine that Jesus is going to sneak into town and sneak out with the saints in a "secret rapture", then our message means nothing. However, to those who believe the truth, the last warning message to the entire world found in Revelation 12:6-12 KJV, it's time to open our Bibles, read these warnings, and prayerfully ask God to direct us to those who can explain them, as did the Ethiopian in the chariot asked for one to explain what he read.

see to me there is a bigger lesson to be learned in Romans 14. Just to explain what it means to me and why it is significant to me. First because for the life of me I could not understand why Paul would set with another in the temple, let’s say one who felt it is wrong to eat pork. And Paul then not eat pork as well. I could not understand why? Why not shout or debate or wrestle or strive with the brother exclaiming “eat!” My question was isn’t that enabling or coddling if you see one way that eating is ok …yet then to side with one afraid to eat? To me the bigger lesson is charity and compassion and patience in what Paul does there not causing his brother to offend, in return Paul also doesn’t offend Christ by harming one of weak conscience. To me it has always stood out because so often on the board and in life others will come sit with you when you are weak and bash you down to the ground with their theology, saying it is love. But unless I’ve misunderstood it says the kingdom is not in meat and drink but righteousness, peace and joy. To be honest, even if I’m terribly weak and always wrong…I have yet to find one who wants to sit by me with compassion or mercy or patience, peace or joy except Christ.

 

[Phoneman777]

Curious why you didn’t highlight
They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst

Happy to: refers to idolatrous "nature worship" like is done in the Bohemian Grove by our political and banking elite today, and to Wiccan-type occult societies that gather among the trees and worship carved images while engaged in licentious activities, etc. Jesus is going to burn em up as surely as he will burn those who eat pork, mice, and other abominable things like freshly killed monkey brains (they take a live monkey and trap him in a table where only his head is exposed on the table top while his body is underneath, and the patrons seated at the table bash him in the head until he dies, then they remove the skull cap and eat his raw monkey brains).

It's time for us to stop defining what is and is not "partiality in the law" based on what sins are familiar and acceptable, and just rely on the Word of God :)