OP: Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?
Bible Answer: God's Foolishness of ONE Baptism
GRACE And Peace, And JOY to all...
Bible Answer: God's Foolishness of ONE Baptism
GRACE And Peace, And JOY to all...
Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?
- Thread starter Bible Highlighter
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
As of yesterday: I used to hold to the view that Spirit baptism replaces water baptism but I have abandoned this viewpoint. It seeks to create a hidden narrative that does not really exist in the Bible when we read about Peter, and others baptizing. It suggests that they were acting by imperfect knowledge when this is not really explained in Scripture at all. Hebrews 9:10 sounds like it could include water baptism passing away, but I think that does not do justice to other verses. One verse cannot unravel tons of other verses where we see baptism take place. Where is this secret narrative that the apostles acted by imperfect knowledge and God was still operating in their life. Show me that narrative in Scripture. It simply does not exist. This is why I abandoned it. It sounded plausible connecting 1 Corinthians 1:17, Luke 16:16, Hebrews 9:10, but there were too many gaps in the story to make it connect.
Granted, I believe we are first saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:5) (Romans 4:3-5). But after that we ares saved by God’s grace, we have to continue in the faith and this involves following our instructions. Baptism is a part of those instructions whether we like it or not. I always felt uneasy of having to explain away certain verses on water baptism. Now I don’t have that problem. I believe.
Dropship
Well-Known Member
Jesus also said to give all your cash to the poor, have you done that yet?..;)
He also said to the leper he'd just cured- "show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing.." (Mark 1:44) yet I don't think anybody nowadays sacrifices anything..:)
PS- There was a big Baptist rally in Leicester (England) town hall square some years ago and they were handing out leaflets to onlookers, so I asked some of them- "I love Jesus but will I be going to hell because I haven't been water-baptised?" but none of them could give me an answer, so they went and got their Big Boss to come over to answer, and he said with a smile "No you won't be going to hell"..:)
Last edited:
Excellent point - most prefer "pick and choose" what they will and will Not obey
theology (Confusion), instead of Rightly Dividing God's Word Of Truth, for God's
Answer, And:
GRACE, Peace, And JOY...
Obviously it is situational. The guy was a young rich ruler (who more than likely had mass amounts of wealth whereby he did not have to work unlike most of us who have to work for a living so as to pay the bills and put food on the table). Jesus did not require the same of Zacchaeus when he was willing to give up half of his goods to the poor, and if he had taken anything from any man by false accusation, he would restore to them four times back the amount (See: Luke 19:1-10).
You said:
The New Covenant clearly began with Christ’s death upon the cross (Luke 22:20). This command you reference above in Mark 1:44 is obviously a part of the Law of Moses. The New Testament says we are not under the Law (Romans 6:14) and that we cannot be justified by the Law of Moses (Acts of the Apostles 13:39). Gentile Christians are told at the Jerusalem council that they do not have to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses (Acts 15). So this command only applies to the Jew under the Old Covenant. It does not mean the other commands by Jesus before the cross are not applicable.
You said:
Being water baptized and baptizing new disciples is really more about following our instructions as a part of the faith after we are saved by God’s grace. Whatever we are told by God to do as a part of our instructions in the New Testament is a part of the faith. Romans 3:27 basically says boasting is excluded when it comes to the faith. This then makes sense out of Ephesians 2:9 about boasting. The boasting in Ephesians 2:9 is in reference to a kind of work done outside of the faith. The just shall live by faith. We are to follow after faith according to 1 Timothy 6:11. We are to fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:12). By faith… Noah prepared an Ark (Hebrews 11:7). Noah preparing or building the Ark sounds like a lot of work. But Hebrews 11:7 says by faith he did it. Grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10). For grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). Everything in your New Testament is a part of the faith. Granted, there are some exceptions like the command you pointed out but you have to rightly divide to find out the answer of which things we do have to obey. Nowhere is it clearly stated in Scripture that water baptism in the name of Jesus has ended. Water baptism in the name of Jesus is something even the apostle Paul had done.
Now, can a person be saved without water baptism? Yes, I believe that. Cornelius received the Spirit before being water baptized (Acts 10). A person can be a son of God just by first believing on the name of Jesus (John 1:12). The thief on the cross was saved without being water baptized. But if we continue to live out our faith in this life, we have to follow our instructions within the faith. It may not make sense to you but that is not what God requires of us. They marched around Jericho seven times by faith and the walls fell. Does it make sense? Why seven times? Why not four times? Again, obeying what God says by faith may not always make sense to us. But without faith… it is impossible to please Him (GOD) (Hebrews 11:6).
Last edited:
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?
I can imagine a tub full of whisky replacing that of water for any enthusiastic religious nutter.
I can imagine a tub full of whisky replacing that of water for any enthusiastic religious nutter.
What I share is a spiritual revelation and many have written and spoken of these things all through the centuries.What I share is not new.
water baptism is not needed for the church nor is it part of the gospel it seems to be connected to Kohns Old Testament program that the Jewish believers continued in as they did the law and sacrifices for many years after Christ death.
it is very clear in scripture that the Jewish believers for the most part,we’re still struggling with the law all through Acts. Where do you think Peter was going to in Acts 2? He was going To the temple, which according to the new covenant was not needed anymore. No more sacrifices or offerings Levites, priest etc.Yet they were still under the law for a long time.
Much of Paul’s writings deals with this issue of not being under the law.
To not see this from the scripture misses the entire issue and water baptism of John from the Old Covenant as well.
Paul was not to preach circumcision yet he circumcised Timothy.when you can show why he might have done this, more clarity may come, it is a clue to this discussion.He did say he did it not want to offend the Jews there. So he obviously did it not by a New Testament command but condescended to thier weakness. But when they wanted Titus, (a Gentile) circumcised, he withstood them strongly (Galatians 2)
Some may we say the argument “well, if Peter did it and we see the Jewish believers doing it in Acts then we should to”, then we should have a temple, Levites, keep the whole law and customs if the Jews abd sacrifice animals as they did for many years after Christ death many many years.
there is no escaping this consequence if we use that argument,(although many have used strained arguments to try and do so).
But if we have the spiritual revelation of these things we will see that we do not have to do this. Even the Jewish believers who were transitioning from the Old Covenant ti the new covenant that was ready to decay and vanish (Hebrews ) said the Gentiles did not have to do these things.
Remember Jesus did speak twice to the Jewish believers of Johns water baptism in the past tense and said John baptized with water BUT ye shall be baptized in Acts 1 and 11 again to Peter.
Why did he say that if baptism was to continue for all?
What I share is a spiritual revelation and many have written and spoken of these things all through the centuries.What I share is not new.
water baptism is not needed for the church nor is it part of the gospel it seems to be connected to Kohns Old Testament program that the Jewish believers continued in as they did the law and sacrifices for many years after Christ death.
it is very clear in scripture that the Jewish believers for the most part,we’re still struggling with the law all through Acts. Where do you think Peter was going to in Acts 2? He was going To the temple, which according to the new covenant was not needed anymore. No more sacrifices or offerings Levites, priest etc.Yet they were still under the law for a long time.
Much of Paul’s writings deals with this issue of not being under the law.
To not see this from the scripture misses the entire issue and water baptism of John from the Old Covenant as well.
Paul was not to preach circumcision yet he circumcised Timothy.when you can show why he might have done this, more clarity may come, it is a clue to this discussion.He did say he did it not want to offend the Jews there. So he obviously did it not by a New Testament command but condescended to thier weakness. But when they wanted Titus, (a Gentile) circumcised, he withstood them strongly (Galatians 2)
Some may we say the argument “well, if Peter did it and we see the Jewish believers doing it in Acts then we should to”, then we should have a temple, Levites, keep the whole law and customs if the Jews abd sacrifice animals as they did for many years after Christ death many many years.
there is no escaping this consequence if we use that argument,(although many have used strained arguments to try and do so).
But if we have the spiritual revelation of these things we will see that we do not have to do this. Even the Jewish believers who were transitioning from the Old Covenant ti the new covenant that was ready to decay and vanish (Hebrews ) said the Gentiles did not have to do these things.
Remember Jesus did speak twice to the Jewish believers of Johns water baptism in the past tense and said John baptized with water BUT ye shall be baptized in Acts 1 and 11 again to Peter.
Why did he say that if baptism was to continue for all?
Brother. I love you in Christ, but I disagree with you on this one now.
Yes, I am aware there are other groups who hold to this viewpoint.
That is why it has gained in popularity.
In fact, it fits well with many today who turn God’s grace into a license to sin on some level.
If my memory serves my correctly: You basically said before that you did not feel it was right to carry a pool around to baptize people.
This is what I believe guided you to think that we should not be water baptized.
The original seed of your own thinking has led you to think this way.
But faith in what God requires of us does not always make sense to us.
Why did God ask the Israelites to march around Jericho seven times?
They could have rationalized that it did not make any sense to not do so that many times and only do it 2 or 3 times.
But we walk by faith and not by sight.
We also do not walk according to our own thinking when it comes to the faith.
You said:
I am not in disagreement of this truth in Scripture that the Jewish apostles struggled with coming out from the Old Law. It does not mean that water baptism in Jesus’ name was not a valid practice by the apostles. God seemed to operate in their life just fine with them doing that. Why did God not stop them and or communicate this to them? We see plenty of other cases in the Bible where men are corrected by God. Why not on this issue? That is why your theory here does not hold water, my friend (pun intended).
You said:
I do see Luke 16:16 as a case for how John was of the Old Law. If John’s water baptism was what was practiced after Pentecost with Gentiles, then there would be a problem. John did not baptize in the name of Jesus. Even at Pentecost, Peter told them to be baptized in the name of Jesus. So this was following what Jesus telling them to do in the great commission. It’s the plain reading and understanding on the text.
You said:
I agree with this article on why Timothy was circumcised.
Why Did Apostle Paul Have Timothy Circumcised?
I believe it was not to hinder Paul and Timothy’s efforts in evangelizing and ministering to them the truth of God’s Word. In Titus’s situation, he most likely did not want to be circumcised and he was not agreeing to go on a missionary trip among Jews to evangelize them. They most likely wanted Titus to be circumcised because they seen it as a salvation issue (of which we read in Acts 15 that Gentile Christians did not have to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses to be saved. Note: The Law of Moses would be the 613 Laws of the Torah as a whole or package deal).
You said:
But the Scriptures make it clear we are not under the Law of Moses in many places (Romans 6:14, Acts of the Apostles 13:39). Nowhere is it stated in Scripture that water baptism in Jesus’ name was a practice that was of the Old Law. Nor do we read was it a practice that was Christianized. That would be only your imagination and thinking that such a thing happened. In fact, is there a slight chance you may be right? Sure. But it’s not written. I would rather be a fool for God in obeying what He said in His Word than to not do what He said. I walk by faith and not by sight and neither do I seek to walk by faith by my own thinking. This is where we disagree. You disagree with the Bible Alone position. We discussed this before in this thread at CF:
The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"
Granted, I am for the “Bible Alone + The Anointing to Understand It.”
But you appear to say that you hear God’s voice outside of Scripture.
Granted, this may not be actual words, but the point here is that I let Scripture be my sole guide because God speaks to us by His Word. God forever abides with His Word. For His Word will not return void.
You said:
Yes, this was in reference to the baptism of the Spirit that happened at Pentecost. They spoke in tongues both in Acts 2, and in Acts 10. In Acts 11, Peter then knew that the Gentiles were accepted into God’s program because they also were baptized into the Spirit and spoke in tongues.
Last edited:
To everyone here:
It must be understood here that while I believe water baptism in the name of Jesus is a must requirement as a part of our faith, I do not see water baptism as the point of contact of faith of how one is Initially Saved like the Church of Christ and the Catholic Church believes.
I believe a Christian can be saved even without water baptism on their deathbed. For even those who believe on His name can be saved (John 1:12). But if a believer has time to live out their faith, then they must continue in the faith of God’s Word and obey the instructions that God has given to us within the New Testament. This is all a part of the faith. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). A normal and plain reading of Scripture will lead the average person to be water baptized. Only those who overthink the issue or who have the idea planted in their mind by others may be led to believe that water baptism in the name of Jesus was done in error by the apostles with God not correcting them on it. This to me sounds silly because it is something Jesus was telling them to do in the great commission.
Believers are first saved by God’s grace through faith without works INITIALLY (Ephesians 2:8-9) (cf. Ephesians 2:1).
After a new believer is first saved by believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, they then enter into the Sanctification of the Spirit as a part of God’s plan of salvation. For 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen us to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (Which is a call of the gospel - 2 Thessalonians 2:14). This is to live a holy life and to obey God’s instructions to us as a part of the faith. If one is not obeying God, then there is a problem. They are not living by faith; And yet we know that the just shall live by faith. And only those who are justified by faith have peace with God.
Boasting is excluded when it comes to the faith (See: Romans 3:27).
It must be understood here that while I believe water baptism in the name of Jesus is a must requirement as a part of our faith, I do not see water baptism as the point of contact of faith of how one is Initially Saved like the Church of Christ and the Catholic Church believes.
I believe a Christian can be saved even without water baptism on their deathbed. For even those who believe on His name can be saved (John 1:12). But if a believer has time to live out their faith, then they must continue in the faith of God’s Word and obey the instructions that God has given to us within the New Testament. This is all a part of the faith. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). A normal and plain reading of Scripture will lead the average person to be water baptized. Only those who overthink the issue or who have the idea planted in their mind by others may be led to believe that water baptism in the name of Jesus was done in error by the apostles with God not correcting them on it. This to me sounds silly because it is something Jesus was telling them to do in the great commission.
Believers are first saved by God’s grace through faith without works INITIALLY (Ephesians 2:8-9) (cf. Ephesians 2:1).
After a new believer is first saved by believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, they then enter into the Sanctification of the Spirit as a part of God’s plan of salvation. For 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen us to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (Which is a call of the gospel - 2 Thessalonians 2:14). This is to live a holy life and to obey God’s instructions to us as a part of the faith. If one is not obeying God, then there is a problem. They are not living by faith; And yet we know that the just shall live by faith. And only those who are justified by faith have peace with God.
Boasting is excluded when it comes to the faith (See: Romans 3:27).
Last edited:
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! i.e.:
Three Bible Baptisms:
God's Context Of Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL!
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
God's Other Context Of Mystery/GRACE! =
our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today:
Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION {#13},
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1_Corinthians_12:13 KJB!)
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE
OR, EQUALS TWO? = water problem with MATH! Correct?
----------------------------------
These have also been Very Helpful:
Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment! and: Water That Divides!!
GRACE, Peace, And JOY...
If you talked with me a week ago, I would have agreed with you.
But I cannot in good conscience agree now based on the testimony of what is written alone.
Ephesians 4:1-6 says,
“I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
The context is focused on doing what God says.
1. Walk worthy of the vocation Wherewith ye (you-all) are called.
2. Forebear one another in love.
3. Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
We must recognize that there is one body of Christ (body of believers we must love).
We must recognize that there is only one God and or one Lord, and one Spirit (we must love). Yet, we believe in the Trinity. The Father (GOD), and the Lord Jesus is also GOD. The Spirit also is GOD. They are not three gods. They are three distinct persons and, yet they are all one GOD. So by your logic of this verse, this passage would be teaching against the Trinity.
There is one faith.
Thee is one baptism (in context to Paul’s original point) of us doing three things.
While Jesus (GOD) does baptize us into the Holy Spirit (all believers), the context is not about God doing this baptism for you in this particular instance in Scripture.
So we must conclude that this is the baptism we need to be concerned with in that we must be water baptized in the name of Jesus.
Follow your instructions in the Word of God as a part of the faith.
For the just shall live by faith.
And only those who are justified by faith have peace with GOD.
Now, faith may start off as a belief alone in our Initial Salvation (Romans 4) (Titus 2:5), but faith does not continue that way.
By faith Noah prepared an Ark (Hebrews 11:7).
That’s what faith is like when you live out your faith.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?
OP^
I believe: washing/cleansing parts of the body, the whole body, clothing, cookware, food, homes, barns, etc. was a regular ancient, historical and is a modern practice.
Washing the body, or body parts was a mans practice to cleanse the outside of the body Before entering a holy place.
Jesus’ teaching was, IMO, and by observance, men washes and cleanse the outside, The Spirit of God washes and cleanses the inside.
Each is a deliberate Act, and called by the exact same single word......Baptism.
However WHO performs each of the Baptisms:
is Entirely Different.
example...Men can declare a true Mindful confession, a true Heartful confession, a lie, a pretense, of Belief.
The man performing the water Baptism, does not know.
The observers seeing the water Baptism, do not know.
HOWEVER, A water Baptized man, will have the MAN speak words For Him, and thereafter, WILL receive a little certificate, proving he was Baptized by a man, and thus be accounted as a member of that church where he was Baptized. And all the other water Baptized observing members will congratulate him.
Evangelical Baptism, say for example, a revival, or large gathering of people, like for example Billy Graham’s long time popular crusades....not in a church setting;
Did not include Water Baptisms, but rather, solely a person’s accepting of an invitation to heartfully Confess their repentance for having not Believed in the Lord God, now truly heartfully Confessing their Belief, and the Observers, are present witnesses. A man does not DO the Baptism. That person is Being Baptized by the Spirit of God.
They are joining in membership in Christ Jesus’ church.
Every denominational Church Organization decides their own protocol, doctrines regarding Baptisms.
Every individual can decide participation according their own preference.
Glory to God,
Taken
OP^
I believe: washing/cleansing parts of the body, the whole body, clothing, cookware, food, homes, barns, etc. was a regular ancient, historical and is a modern practice.
Washing the body, or body parts was a mans practice to cleanse the outside of the body Before entering a holy place.
Jesus’ teaching was, IMO, and by observance, men washes and cleanse the outside, The Spirit of God washes and cleanses the inside.
Each is a deliberate Act, and called by the exact same single word......Baptism.
However WHO performs each of the Baptisms:
is Entirely Different.
example...Men can declare a true Mindful confession, a true Heartful confession, a lie, a pretense, of Belief.
The man performing the water Baptism, does not know.
The observers seeing the water Baptism, do not know.
HOWEVER, A water Baptized man, will have the MAN speak words For Him, and thereafter, WILL receive a little certificate, proving he was Baptized by a man, and thus be accounted as a member of that church where he was Baptized. And all the other water Baptized observing members will congratulate him.
Evangelical Baptism, say for example, a revival, or large gathering of people, like for example Billy Graham’s long time popular crusades....not in a church setting;
Did not include Water Baptisms, but rather, solely a person’s accepting of an invitation to heartfully Confess their repentance for having not Believed in the Lord God, now truly heartfully Confessing their Belief, and the Observers, are present witnesses. A man does not DO the Baptism. That person is Being Baptized by the Spirit of God.
They are joining in membership in Christ Jesus’ church.
Every denominational Church Organization decides their own protocol, doctrines regarding Baptisms.
Every individual can decide participation according their own preference.
Glory to God,
Taken
While some Belief Alone groups do water baptize, Protestant Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism is in part to blame for getting people to move away from the command on water baptism in Jesus’ name. Nobody wants to follow their instructions in the faith (or they want want to pick and choose which one’s they want to obey). They see anything God commands of us or a work as not talking about faith. This is insanity because Scripture says by faith Noah prepared an Ark to the saving of his house (See Hebrews 11:7).
Also, I am not denying we are baptized into the Spirit when we receive Jesus as our Savior. I believe 1 Corinthians 12:13 talks about that. But that does not relinquish our responsibility of water baptism because Jesus told us to baptize (Matthew 28:19).
Last edited:
Disagree, because the obvious Scriptural Evidence Shows Otherwise!
All "kingdom saints, Under God's Context of Prophecy And Law" Were Required/
/Commanded:
"to sell All, AND to follow Jesus!" (Mat_19:21;Mar_10:21;Luk_18:22):
+
Carried Out: "all things common" (Acts 2:44-45, 4:32-34)
Not situational for one, but Dispensational For ALL, Correct? In addition:
God Had Immediate Consequences for disobedience/deceitfulness when the
"gift of knowledge" Peter had, was still In Effect! (Acts 5:1-11), Correct?
Thus, this was a "kingdom package deal," including water baptism for the
remission of sins (post 54), with "signs following believers, tongues, healings,
raising the dead, etc..." (Mar 16:16-18 Not to be Re-interpreted/separated/split up).
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” (online):
Also Obvious are New Superseding Commandments Of Christ In His
New Dispensation, God's Other Context Of:
Mystery/GRACE program for The Body Of Christ saints":
One Baptism (post 54), no more "sign gifts that ceased" (1Co 13:8-10),
plus no more "sell all," but:
1Ti_5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially
for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and
is worse than an infidel." (cp 1Th 4:11; 2Th 3:12)
32 years ago, I would have believed like yourself = TWO baptisms, but no for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and
is worse than an infidel." (cp 1Th 4:11; 2Th 3:12)
longer have Confusion about many traditional baptisms, signs, the law, etc...
GRACE, Peace, And JOY...
Dropship
Well-Known Member
Taking things strictly literally without looking at the big picture can have its drawbacks, for example Jesus said-
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off...And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. (Mark 9:43-47)
So if a bloke has a lust problem should he go to work on himself with a pair of garden shears?
My point is that if we take things too literally it gives us no elbow room to see things in context, so rightly or wrongly I tend to think water-baptism is not such a big deal as some people think, for example there are verses that the holy spirit can descend on people even if they haven't been water-baptised.
But if people WANT to be water-baptised because it'll strengthen their faith, that's fine of course..:)