Same Sex Marriage Bill

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Yet your bible perspective on "predetermination" came from John Calvin.
Its his theology., its Calvinism, created long ago.

So, what you just said,...would be like if i taught that Mary is the queen of heaven, and then i denied im a Catholic.

That does not really work, Blue Dragonfly.

No.
John Calvin garnered his doctrine from the Bible.

Here's a test to help you understand God's word and when he tells you he is Sovereign over his creation. And all things are predestined by God, God's will, and for his glory.

Prophecy.

Both old and new testaments.:)

 

[Behold]

No.
John Calvin garnered his doctrine from the Bible.

Here's a test to help you 6nderstand God's word and when he tells you he is Sovereign over his creation. And all things are predestined by God, God's will, and for his glory.Prophecy.
Both old and new testaments.:)

Listen,
God is indeed, omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, but in case you didnt know.. Jesus had the option to not go to the Cross.
= FREE WILL.
That is why He told YOU....."not MY WILL"... But "The Father's, God's, i will do".
See that CHOICE?
That is CHRIST choosing not his own but His Father's will.
Take a good look.

Also,
You are denying being a Calvinist, while you are defending His Theology on a public forum by NAME.
So, im not registering that as honesty.
Is God?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

God knows who will believe in Jesus.
This is the "foreknowledge" of God.

What Calvin misunderstood was this....... That God KNOWS what you will do before you do it. "foreknowledge"< is not the same as Choosing you to do it, or Causing you to do it.

KNOWING>.....is not the same as CAUSING.

So, God KNOWS before your are born, if you will Trust in Christ... But that is not God CAUSING you, to choose.
That is God's "foreknowledge" of what you are going to do. = Freewill.

God can't choose you to be one that He does not choose for Salvation, and then send you to hell for being a Christ Rejector.

See it yet?

Calvin could not understand this, and twisted it into... God predetermines if you will choose.
See that twist on "foreknowledge"?
Calvin could not understand that God KNOWING everything before it happens (Foreknowledge), is not the same as God CAUSING everything that he already knows.
I hope you can see this., as its very important to understand, as this allows you a way out.

Calvinism is a way to look at verses, in HIS way, and people who fall under the influence of Him, mistake this as "what the bible teaches".

Romans 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
This is the last post I'll make here. We're way off topic from the OP.

Two points that reiterate God predeterminism all things.

The Lambs Book of [Eternal] Life, Salvation, was written, to contain the names of everyone God would call through his grace unto eternal irrevocable Salvation. The book was written before God created the world where man would fall into sin so to need saving.

And how that happened is, God planted a tree in the center of Eden. And made it off limits else eating of its fruit would condemn Adam and Eve because they disobeyed God.
It wasn't gaining the same knowledge God has of good and evil,that caused them to fall from God's grace. It was being led to disobey God that did that.

And disobeying God's law let sin enter the world.

For sin to enter in,it had to pre-exist Eden. And it did. In Heaven. Where Satan and 1/3rd of God's angels waged a war against God's Sovereignty. And lost.

Were it not for Adam and Eve's fall God's Book of Life would not need to exist. Yet , it pre-existed the fall.

None of this originates with Reformed Theology. Calvinism,etc...

Reformed theology gleaned its doctrines from the Bible from whence all this sprang as God's words to us.

Jesus is Pre-eminent. Colossians 1

Prophecy shows God Predestined all things.
Daniel 11


Strong's Greek: 4309. προορίζω (proorizó) -- to predetermine, foreordain
Predetermine: Greek,proorizó
I foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand.


edited for typo fix

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Listen,
God is indeed, omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, but in case you didnt know.. Jesus had the option to not go to the Cross.
= FREE WILL.
That is why He told YOU....."not MY WILL"... But "The Father's, God's, i will do".
See that CHOICE?
That is CHRIST choosing not his own but His Father's will.
Take a good look.

Also,
You are denying being a Calvinist, while you are defending His Theology on a public forum by NAME.
So, im not registering that as honesty.
Is God?

You're not being honest.
It's a lie to claim I'm defending Calvinism by name.

Before you start accusing people of being dishonest, you may wish to learn what Reformed Theology is. Because you clearly,absolutely, do not know what it is right now.

I'm not derailing this thread further. And you are not qualified through personal knowledge to start a thread on Reformed Theology when you are myopic regarding Calvinism, thinking they are one and the same. They're not.

Have a good day.

 

[Behold]

Romans 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified

Ok, i'll leave it here then, if you do the same..

I owe you a response....

You posted a Good verse.

Let me show you how the Calvinist's teach it..

"whom he called he Predestined".

That is what the verse says... But the Calvinist, does this with it... they change it to fit their Cult "TULIP" Theology....like this....>"Whom he called he had already predestined to become the elect".
See that?
That is what a Calvinist does with that verse.
They INSERT "ELECT" into the VERSE because that is what CALVIN did with the verse.
He fathered that heresy.

Now...Let me show you what a student of the bible does with that verse.

"who he called he also Predestined"...

Predestined to what?

A.) "predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ".

See that?
That is "comparing scripture with Scripture" so that the BIBLE interprets its own Words.
That is how you "rightly divide"....and you must be able to discern to do this, perfectly.
So, when you do.... you understand that when the verse is rightly divided, then it has nothing to do with the J. Calvin heresy of predestined to be the elect, that they teach by changing the verse, theologically, into Calvin's "predestined elect" heresy.

What actually happens is..... according to the verse...

= The born again, is predestined to be= """conformed into the image of Christ".

That is the DESTINY of every born again Believer. They are Pre-Determined to end up, as : "conformed into the image of Christ".

The Heretic CALVIN taught that they are Predestined to become the ELECT.
HE LIED.

Reader..., everyone is called. Everyone.. as Jesus said, """""If i be lifted up, i will DRAW ALL PEOPLE TO ME"

THE CROSS is calling you right now.
Its always "on Call".

BlueDragonfly.....There is the "whom GOD CALLED".....in your verse....>Its EVERYONE....Its John 3:16...... "whosoever will BELIEVE".... become the Elect.

Its FAITH that ELECTS, and GOD who Justifies.

Faith is an act of FREE WILL, that happens as "Faith comes by hearing" "and hearing by the word of God"..

And there is a predetermined outcome that is the final spiritual destination regarding all who are born again... and that is they are "PREDESTINED to be conformed into the image of Christ""".
That is the actual PREDETERMINED end result that happens to everyone who by faith, Believes in Jesus.

 

[Scott Downey]

American Babylon and the LGBT Plague (noqreport.com)
Good read, and pro-family Russia is also pro-hydrocarbon anti-green, anti-GND, while the western powers embrace demonic doctrine of all kinds.

 

[Scott Downey]

Ok, i'll leave it here then, if you do the same..

I owe you a response....

You posted a Good verse.

Let me show you how the Calvinist's teach it..

"whom he called he Predestined".

That is what the verse says... But the Calvinist, does this with it... they change it to fit their Cult "TULIP" Theology....like this....>"Whom he called he had already predestined to become the elect".
See that?
That is what a Calvinist does with that verse.
They INSERT "ELECT" into the VERSE because that is what CALVIN did with the verse.
He fathered that heresy.

Now...Let me show you what a student of the bible does with that verse.

"who he called he also Predestined"...

Predestined to what?

A.) "predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ".

See that?
That is "comparing scripture with Scripture" so that the BIBLE interprets its own Words.
That is how you "rightly divide"....and you must be able to discern to do this, perfectly.
So, when you do.... you understand that when the verse is rightly divided, then it has nothing to do with the J. Calvin heresy of predestined to be the elect, that they teach by changing the verse, theologically, into Calvin's "predestined elect" heresy.

What actually happens is..... according to the verse...

= The born again, is predestined to be= """conformed into the image of Christ".

That is the DESTINY of every born again Believer. They are Pre-Determined to end up, as : "conformed into the image of Christ".

The Heretic CALVIN taught that they are Predestined to become the ELECT.
HE LIED.

Reader..., everyone is called. Everyone.. as Jesus said, """""If i be lifted up, i will DRAW ALL PEOPLE TO ME"

THE CROSS is calling you right now.
Its always "on Call".

BlueDragonfly.....There is the "whom GOD CALLED".....in your verse....>Its EVERYONE....Its John 3:16...... "whosoever will BELIEVE".... become the Elect.

Its FAITH that ELECTS, and GOD who Justifies.

Faith is an act of FREE WILL, that happens as "Faith comes by hearing" "and hearing by the word of God"..

And there is a predetermined outcome that is the final spiritual destination regarding all who are born again... and that is they are "PREDESTINED to be conformed into the image of Christ""".
That is the actual PREDETERMINED end result that happens to everyone who by faith, Believes in Jesus.

Faith is actually God's gift to the elect whom he foreknew as His people.
Your teaching God foreknew all people as his people, that is a clear lie.

Romans 12
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Paul teaching is directed to the church, not the world. God has only dealt to the those who make up the church a measure of faith, which is why they believe at all. Fits in well with Ephesians 2

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

The grace, the faith, the salvation is not of yourselves, it is all God's gift, and it is only given to those God foreknew as His, from the beginning, before time began.

 

[Pearl]

Words from the marriage ceremony.


DEARLY beloved, we are gathered together here in the sight of God, and in the face of this Congregation, to join together this man and this woman in holy Matrimony; which is an honourable estate, instituted of God in the time of man’s innocency, signifying unto us the mystical union that is betwixt Christ and his Church; which holy estate Christ adorned and beautified with his presence, and first miracle that he wrought, in Cana of Galilee; and is commended of Saint Paul to be honourable among all men: and therefore is not by any to be enterprised, nor taken in hand, unadvisedly, lightly, or wantonly, to satisfy men’s carnal lusts and appetites, like brute beasts that have no understanding; but reverently, discreetly, advisedly, soberly, and in the fear of God; duly considering the causes for which Matrimony was ordained.

First, it was ordained for the procreation of children, to be brought up in the fear and nurture of the Lord, and to the praise of his holy Name.
Secondly, it was ordained for a remedy against sin, and to avoid fornication; that such persons as have not the gift of continency might marry and keep themselves undefiled members of Christ’s body.

My view is that if same sex couples want a wedding - it can never be a marriage as such as that involves joining as God intended - they could have a civil ceremony but that the church should by no means be expected to form these rituals. The Church should not allow itself to give in to worldly pressures to perform these acts of supposed marriage. The Church should not give in to worldly pressure.

 

[Behold]

American Babylon and the LGBT Plague (noqreport.com)
Good read, and pro-family Russia is also pro-hydrocarbon anti-green, anti-GND, while the western powers embrace demonic doctrine of all kinds.

Putin in an interview a few years ago.. said....>"What has happened to America"... They are a Christian nation and they have turned their back on biblical morality.......

"""They are all about GAY Rights
Abortion on Demand"""

 

[David Boyer]

Words from the marriage ceremony.


DEARLY beloved, we are gathered together here in the sight of God, and in the face of this Congregation, to join together this man and this woman in holy Matrimony; which is an honourable estate, instituted of God in the time of man’s innocency, signifying unto us the mystical union that is betwixt Christ and his Church; which holy estate Christ adorned and beautified with his presence, and first miracle that he wrought, in Cana of Galilee; and is commended of Saint Paul to be honourable among all men: and therefore is not by any to be enterprised, nor taken in hand, unadvisedly, lightly, or wantonly, to satisfy men’s carnal lusts and appetites, like brute beasts that have no understanding; but reverently, discreetly, advisedly, soberly, and in the fear of God; duly considering the causes for which Matrimony was ordained.

First, it was ordained for the procreation of children, to be brought up in the fear and nurture of the Lord, and to the praise of his holy Name.
Secondly, it was ordained for a remedy against sin, and to avoid fornication; that such persons as have not the gift of continency might marry and keep themselves undefiled members of Christ’s body.

My view is that if same sex couples want a wedding - it can never be a marriage as such as that involves joining as God intended - they could have a civil ceremony but that the church should by no means be expected to form these rituals. The Church should not allow itself to give in to worldly pressures to perform these acts of supposed marriage. The Church should not give in to worldly pressure.

Question: Where do you get that marriage was ordained for the procreation of children? Where in the Bible is that idea reference from?

 

[Scott Downey]

Question: Where do you get that marriage was ordained for the procreation of children? Where in the Bible is that idea reference from?

Genesis 3:16
To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

Maybe that can help, your question is kind of confusing. Marriages were in the natural course of events going to produce children, God describes it here, after the fall, God made some changes to the process as a repercussion for their sins

 

[Scott Downey]

The other great theme of marriage and children is in God telling Adam and Eve to do this,
Genesis 1:27-29 New King James Version

27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

It is always only male and female in a marriage. Any other relationship is sexual immorality, and it carries a certain doom.

 

[David Boyer]

Genesis 3:16
To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

Maybe that can help, your question is kind of confusing. Marriages were in the natural course of events going to produce children, God describes it here, after the fall, God made some changes to the process as a repercussion for their sins

So long as you don't use Gen 2:18 for your proof text then I'm ok with it.

 

[Pearl]

Question: Where do you get that marriage was ordained for the procreation of children? Where in the Bible is that idea reference from?

This is the wording of the marriage service for a church wedding. So the point I am making is that for the church to 'marry' same sex couples means going against its own wording.

 

[Scott Downey]

Prophecy suggests 2023 Synod will herald the Anti-Christ - LifeSite (lifesitenews.com)
Scuttlebutt (prophecy) is saying catholic church is going to hold a synod 2023, and change its view on marriage to include homosexual unions by the work of the pope etc...
And the antichrist figure will rise up soon after Marriage is perverted in the church like this, or some such thing.
I know the Germans priests, German Synodal Way, etc... are very upset the LGBTQ are not approved of in the church.

You can see the way things are going out in the world, any church group that does this proves they are a false teaching church of the world, not of God.

Dont pay too close attention to modern day prophets as most are fake news. But I thought this an interesting sign of the times we live in.

-------------------
Citing apparitions from Our Lady of Garabandal, Liz Yore believes that Pope Francis and his cronies are “laying the groundwork” for a 2023 Synod on Synodality that will “radically transform” the Church and lead to the appearance of the Anti-Christ.

“Our Lady of Garabandal told the three or four children that a synod is going to happen, not a council, but a synod, and that once this big synod happens, then the Anti-Christ will appear in the Church,” she says. “And so I believe … the groundwork is being laid for this radical transformation of Church dogma through Francis and his minions and his radical cardinals, and especially the Germans, who are going to take front and center in pushing forward this dogma.”

“I think we need to pay very close attention to what’s happening in the run-up to the 2023 Synod,” she adds.

As for the “Respect for Marriage Act” that would codify same-sex “marriage,” Father James Altman calls on the Supreme Court to strike down the unconstitutional bill if it passes the Congress and is signed into law by President Joe Biden.

“I’m not just blowing smoke here or coming up with some fun theory. There’s a reservation clause in the U.S. Constitution, and the reservation clause [of the Tenth Amendment] says what we do not give to the federal government, we reserve to the states,” he says. “We did not give to the federal government authority over marriage.”

“It absolutely is unconstitutional … They should not be even getting their nose in. We can only hope then the Supreme Court will strike it down.”

'Treason': German Synodal Path furious after bishops block document on changing Church teaching - LifeSite (lifesitenews.com)
These Germans here are totally crazy with pursuing LGBTQ dogma change to church doctrines. And really angry. they want full recognition and acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle.

 

[bluedragon]

The coward steps forward.

Chuck Schumer announces that the "Same Sex Marriage" bill has been put on hold until after the November Elections.

In other words they realized there would not be 60 votes cast for passage.

I think Manchin told Schumer to follow the horses in the Queen Elizabeth procession and bring along a fork, spoon and shaker of salt ....

I marched in the Rose Bowl parade ....behind horses .....it ain't pretty ...

 

[Raccoon1010]

I checked out the two faiths that I had been a part of in the past. And I saw that the Mormons supported the bill while the Catholics denounced it. Strange that Mormons supported it.

Mormon statement of support:
The Church of Jesus Christ Supports the Federal Fairness for All Act

Catholic denunciation:
The Equality Act

 

[Raccoon1010]

The coward steps forward.

Chuck Schumer announces that the "Same Sex Marriage" bill has been put on hold until after the November Elections.

In other words they realized there would not be 60 votes cast for passage.

I think Manchin told Schumer to follow the horses in the Queen Elizabeth procession and bring along a fork, spoon and shaker of salt ....

I marched in the Rose Bowl parade ....behind horses .....it ain't pretty ...

LOL, I did that at a parade when I was a kid, I had to use a shovel and bucket.

 

[Raccoon1010]

I'm starting to believe that God is returning here soon. The democrats have no morals.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Apparently the Seventh Day Adventists support the act as well:

The Support for Fairness for All - Alliance for Lasting Liberty