Electing New Pope

[BreadOfLife]

Again, you believe everything in ancient history and modern history is perfectly accurate. You will stake your salvation on it. How gullible and clueless.

Those writings were from post apostolic fraudulent teachers

THIS, coming from a guy who rejects the Early Church Fathers as "Fraudulent Teachers" - yet staunchly adheres to the Canon of Scripture that THEY compiled and declared as "Inspired".

If it weren't for hypocriisy - YOU wouldn't have a voice at all . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

We may not agree on things, but that's ok

"Disagreeng" is fine.
Perpetuating lies and fairy tales like YOU did is quoiite another thing . . .

 

[BeyondET]

"Disagreeng" is fine.
Perpetuating lies and fairy tales like YOU did is quoiite another thing . . .

only in your head are they lies and fairy tales, I get it your catholic

 

[amigo de christo]

THIS, coming from a guy who rejects the Early Church Fathers as "Fraudulent Teachers" - yet staunchly adheres to the Canon of Scripture that THEY compiled and declared as "Inspired".

If it weren't for hypocriisy - YOU wouldn't have a voice at all . . .

Every generation of jews also had scribes that faithfully copied and recopied the torah . BUT IT DONT MEAN THEY FOLLOWED GOD
for with many of them GOD was not well pleased . SO TOO with the CC . Sure they recopied the orignal letters ,
BUT THE LEADERS always contradicted and taught lies .
HOW many folks even within the protestant realm say WE AGREE with the canon and YET THEY TWIST ITS TEACHINGS
WELL , SO TOO WITH THE CC . IT DID and DOES THE SAME . TIME TO LEARN BIBLE FOR OURSELVES and stop
letting twisted men twist scrips unto their destruction and the destruction of those who sit under them .
PS , it looks like pope francis is getting ready to step down . HOW about you write the vatican
and put my name in to run for pope . I LOVE THE PEOPLES . THUS I would clean house and bring us back
to the original and pure teachings . Believe me when i say , I DONT AT ALL DESIRE that office
BUT man i love the peoples and do wish only GOOD for them .
And ps , just cause i aint catholic dont rule me out . THEY VOTED DONALD TRUMP IN and HE said HE wasnt a politician
and yet got the highest job of politics . I didnt vote for him either and i sure as heck didnt vote for biden .
BUT i was just making a point . SO how about you , thee faith and eliminator write the vatican and let them know
To put me in as candidate for pope . I MEAN SOMEONE has to do something .

 

[Illuminator]

only in your head are they lies and fairy tales, I get it your catholic

Lies and fairytales are never accompanied with any kind of evidence and sources are never given. Just the standard airhead carnival barking. It's as if Catholics don't have a right to explanations. History is a dirty word around here. Meaningful discussion is non-existent with anti-Catholics, who rely heavily on 18th century Modernist rhetoric.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2006/11/anti-catholicism-index-page.html

 

[Illuminator]

Every generation of jews also had scribes that faithfully copied and recopied the torah . BUT IT DONT MEAN THEY FOLLOWED GOD
for with many of them GOD was not well pleased . SO TOO with the CC . Sure they recopied the orignal letters ,
BUT THE LEADERS always contradicted and taught lies .

Really? The doctrine of the Trinity came into deeper clarity in the middle of the 4th century, and is accepted by all Christians. So according to you, the Trinity is a contradictory lie.

HOW many folks even within the protestant realm say WE AGREE with the canon and YET THEY TWIST ITS TEACHINGS
WELL , SO TOO WITH THE CC . IT DID and DOES THE SAME .

Always asserted, never proven. People want the truth, not airhead flaming zingers.

TIME TO LEARN BIBLE FOR OURSELVES and stop
letting twisted men twist scrips unto their destruction and the destruction of those who sit under them .

What a joke. Obviously you "learn the Bible" from other prejudiced ignorant anti-Catholics and then claim you learned lies and falsehoods by reading the Bible for yourself. That's why you never give sources for your dogmatized bigotry.

PS , it looks like pope francis is getting ready to step down . HOW about you write the vatican
and put my name in to run for pope . I LOVE THE PEOPLES . THUS I would clean house and bring us back
to the original and pure teachings . Believe me when i say , I DONT AT ALL DESIRE that office
BUT man i love the peoples and do wish only GOOD for them .
And ps , just cause i aint catholic dont rule me out . THEY VOTED DONALD TRUMP IN and HE said HE wasnt a politician
and yet got the highest job of politics . I didnt vote for him either and i sure as heck didnt vote for biden .
BUT i was just making a point . SO how about you , thee faith and eliminator write the vatican and let them know
To put me in as candidate for pope . I MEAN SOMEONE has to do something .

How to Send the Pope a Letter – And Why You Might Get a Response!

Well Amigo, I would vote for you as pope, if you promise to do something about the moral decay of Protestant churches who actively support same-sex "marriages", endorse abortion (and its evil twin contraception), euthanasia, surrogate motherhood, test tube babies etc. etc.

15 church leaders and rabbis held a 'service of blessing' for an abortion clinic​

 

[BreadOfLife]

only in your head are they lies and fairy tales, I get it your catholic

No - they're lies and fairy tales because when I gave you evidence to the conytrary - you repeatedly FAILED to adress it.

This is proof positive that you lied.
This is precisely why it's so easy to expose your kind of ignorant nonsense . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Every generation of jews also had scribes that faithfully copied and recopied the torah . BUT IT DONT MEAN THEY FOLLOWED GOD
for with many of them GOD was not well pleased . SO TOO with the CC . Sure they recopied the orignal letters ,
BUT THE LEADERS always contradicted and taught lies .

HOW many folks even within the protestant realm say WE AGREE with the canon and YET THEY TWIST ITS TEACHINGS
WELL , SO TOO WITH THE CC . IT DID and DOES THE SAME . TIME TO LEARN BIBLE FOR OURSELVES and stop
letting twisted men twist scrips unto their destruction and the destruction of those who sit under them .
PS , it looks like pope francis is getting ready to step down . HOW about you write the vatican
and put my name in to run for pope . I LOVE THE PEOPLES . THUS I would clean house and bring us back
to the original and pure teachings . Believe me when i say , I DONT AT ALL DESIRE that office
BUT man i love the peoples and do wish only GOOD for them .
And ps , just cause i aint catholic dont rule me out . THEY VOTED DONALD TRUMP IN and HE said HE wasnt a politician
and yet got the highest job of politics . I didnt vote for him either and i sure as heck didnt vote for biden .
BUT i was just making a point . SO how about you , thee faith and eliminator write the vatican and let them know
To put me in as candidate for pope . I MEAN SOMEONE has to do something .

As to your first claim above in RED - it's not that the Jewish leaders taight "Lies". It's that they placed THEIR rules above God's. These were the "traditions and precepts of men" that Jesus condemned in Mark 7.

This is NOT the case in the Church - and never has been.
I openbly chgallenge you to give me ONE exampke of Cathlic teaching that USURPS the Word of God and places that teaching it ABOVE His Word.

As to the othe gibberish in RED - i coulldn't make ANY sense of it.

 

[BeyondET]

No - they're lies and fairy tales because when I gave you evidence to the conytrary - you repeatedly FAILED to adress it.

This is proof positive that you lied.
This is precisely why it's so easy to expose your kind of ignorant nonsense . . .

I didn't address what??, and now its proof I lied that makes zero sense at all, your angry and want to be vicious. Point where I lied your saying I knew before hand because that's the only way someone lies if they know the truth before they lie about it?.

I give you one example of changes in catholic doctrine the vatican 2, pope Francis wants to change more stuff. the catholics have changed modernization since the beginning to keep with worldly things sorry but it no lie.

 

[BeyondET]

Lies and fairytales are never accompanied with any kind of evidence and sources are never given. Just the standard airhead carnival barking. It's as if Catholics don't have a right to explanations. History is a dirty word around here. Meaningful discussion is non-existent with anti-Catholics, who rely heavily on 18th century Modernist rhetoric.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2006/11/anti-catholicism-index-page.html

Explain this kissing little baby statues isn't cool imo it's theatrical not even supposed to be worshipping statues weird

 

[amigo de christo]

Really? The doctrine of the Trinity came into deeper clarity in the middle of the 4th century, and is accepted by all Christians. So according to you, the Trinity is a contradictory lie.
Always asserted, never proven. People want the truth, not airhead flaming zingers.
What a joke. Obviously you "learn the Bible" from other prejudiced ignorant anti-Catholics and then claim you learned lies and falsehoods by reading the Bible for yourself. That's why you never give sources for your dogmatized bigotry.

How to Send the Pope a Letter – And Why You Might Get a Response!

Well Amigo, I would vote for you as pope, if you promise to do something about the moral decay of Protestant churches who actively support same-sex "marriages", endorse abortion (and its evil twin contraception), euthanasia, surrogate motherhood, test tube babies etc. etc.

15 church leaders and rabbis held a 'service of blessing' for an abortion clinic​

Well then get ready to write the vatican , cause i would for sure clean out the falsehoods within the protestant realm as well .
They have tanked . Time to return to the beginning and simply stop supporting any and all sin .
And that would include the acceptance of any sins . Folks are way too scared of this lgbt and wont bother to correct
those even within their own churches .
An example . If i got up within a lot of even protestant churches and said Hey do not commit murder
Most would agree .
If i said not to lie to one another . They would agree
But if i got up and told the CHURCH . Notice i said THE CHURCH , HEY DO NOT COMMIT homosexuality
I bet most would run me off calling me a hater . ALL SIN must be exposed within the church
and all sin must be corrected . Cant pick and choose what sin to correct while leaving other sins to fill the church .

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Really? The doctrine of the Trinity came into deeper clarity in the middle of the 4th century, and is accepted by all Christians. So according to you, the Trinity is a contradictory lie.
Always asserted, never proven. People want the truth, not airhead flaming zingers.
What a joke. Obviously you "learn the Bible" from other prejudiced ignorant anti-Catholics and then claim you learned lies and falsehoods by reading the Bible for yourself. That's why you never give sources for your dogmatized bigotry.

How to Send the Pope a Letter – And Why You Might Get a Response!

Well Amigo, I would vote for you as pope, if you promise to do something about the moral decay of Protestant churches who actively support same-sex "marriages", endorse abortion (and its evil twin contraception), euthanasia, surrogate motherhood, test tube babies etc. etc.

15 church leaders and rabbis held a 'service of blessing' for an abortion clinic​

Blessing an abortion clinic ? That would be like blessing the Devil himself !
How deluded they are to follow such deceptions.

 

[Illuminator]

Explain this kissing little baby statues isn't cool imo it's theatrical not even supposed to be worshipping statues weird
View attachment 24858

Only STUPID people think that Catholics worship statues, because they are brainwashed and refuse to see Who statues RERESENTS. You have to DERAIL the discussion with an emotionally charged insult because you are unable to discuss anything in a civilized manner.

But Catholics don’t worship statues. We do, however, venerate them. The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains that, in the Old Testament, God allowed the Israelites to make certain images to use as symbols to help them point their minds towards heaven (CCC 2130). The Catechism also explains that we can venerate statues and images (CCC 2132). However, to venerate is not the same as to worship. To venerate means to pay respect, while worshiping is adoration that belongs to God alone.

The Reformation Wall, worshipped by Protestants since 1903!

I can be just as stupid as you.

​

 

[FHII]

Well then get ready to write the vatican , cause i would for sure clean out the falsehoods within the protestant realm as well .
They have tanked . Time to return to the beginning and simply stop supporting any and all sin .
And that would include the acceptance of any sins . Folks are way too scared of this lgbt and wont bother to correct
those even within their own churches .
An example . If i got up within a lot of even protestant churches and said Hey do not commit murder
Most would agree .
If i said not to lie to one another . They would agree
But if i got up and told the CHURCH . Notice i said THE CHURCH , HEY DO NOT COMMIT homosexuality
I bet most would run me off calling me a hater . ALL SIN must be exposed within the church
and all sin must be corrected . Cant pick and choose what sin to correct while leaving other sins to fill the church .

So what would you do with people who eat shrimp? Or Catfish? Or the delicious lobster? Pork, ham and bacon? What a wonderful animal the pig is!

What would you do with people who wear polyester? Or enjoy tangerines? Will you also stone someone to death for adultery or breaking the sabbath? Would you stone me for not stoning one who breaks the sabbath? Was Jesus wrong when he showed mercy and wrote in the sand and said, "woman, where are you accusers?"

You say everyone will be one your side when you condemn murder, and you are right! They will be on your side when you condemn lying, and again you are right (but they would all be hypocrites, wouldn't they?). But where will they be when you try to enforce the WHOLE Law? Or would you enforce it all?

Or would you state that we are not under the law when it comes to eating forbidden food and wearing mixed cloth?

After all, ALL SIN must be corrected, and we can't pick and choose what sin to correct.

Your words!

 

[Brakelite]

I openbly chgallenge you to give me ONE exampke of Cathlic teaching that USURPS the Word of God and places that teaching it ABOVE His Word.

"You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [Catholicsl never sanctify." --James Cardinal Gibbons, "The Faith of Our Fathers," page 111.

"There is but one church on the face of the earth which has the power, or claims power, to make laws binding on the conscience, binding before God, binding under penalty of hell-fire. For instance, the institution of Sunday. What right has any other church to keep this day? You answer by virtue of the third commandment [the Papacy changed the fourth commandment and called it the third], which says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' But Sunday is not the Sabbath. Any schoolboy knows that Sunday is the first day of the week. I have repeatedly offered one thousand dollars to anyone who will prove by the Bible alone that Sunday is the day we are hound to keep, and no one has called for the money. It was the holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest from Saturday, the seventh day, to Sunday, the first day of the week."--T. Enright, C. S. S. R., in a lecture delivered in 1893.

"Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible." --James Cardinal Gibbons, Catholic Mirror, Dec. 23, 1983.

"QUESTION: What Bible authority is there for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week? Who gave the pope the authority to change a command of God?
"ANSWER: if the Bible is the only guide for the Christian, then the Seventh-day Adventist is right in observing the Saturday with the Jew. But Catholics learn what to believe and do from the divine, infallible authority established by Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church.... Is it not strange that those who make the Bible their only teacher should inconsistently follow in this matter the tradition of the Church?"--"Question Box " by Conway, 1903 Edition, pages 254, 255.

"QUESTION: Which is the Sabbath day?
"ANSWER: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

"QUESTION: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
"ANSWER: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." --Peter Geiermann, "The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine," Second Edition, 1910, page 50.

"It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ has transferred this rest to the Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] church." --MGR. Segur, "Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today," page 213.

"QUESTION: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
"ANSWER: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." --Stephen Keenan, "A Doctrinal Catechism," page 174.

"QUESTION: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holydays?
"ANSWER: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.

"QUESTION: How prove you that?
"ANSWER: Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the Church's power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power."--Henry Tuberville, D. D., "An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine" (R. C.), page 58.

"Nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the seventh day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the church [Roman] outside the Bible."--Catholic Virginian, Oct. 3, 1947.

 

[Illuminator]

"You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [Catholicsl never sanctify." --James Cardinal Gibbons, "The Faith of Our Fathers," page 111.

"There is but one church on the face of the earth which has the power, or claims power, to make laws binding on the conscience, binding before God, binding under penalty of hell-fire. For instance, the institution of Sunday. What right has any other church to keep this day? You answer by virtue of the third commandment [the Papacy changed the fourth commandment and called it the third], which says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' But Sunday is not the Sabbath. Any schoolboy knows that Sunday is the first day of the week. I have repeatedly offered one thousand dollars to anyone who will prove by the Bible alone that Sunday is the day we are hound to keep, and no one has called for the money. It was the holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest from Saturday, the seventh day, to Sunday, the first day of the week."--T. Enright, C. S. S. R., in a lecture delivered in 1893.

"Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible." --James Cardinal Gibbons, Catholic Mirror, Dec. 23, 1983.

"QUESTION: What Bible authority is there for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week? Who gave the pope the authority to change a command of God?
"ANSWER: if the Bible is the only guide for the Christian, then the Seventh-day Adventist is right in observing the Saturday with the Jew. But Catholics learn what to believe and do from the divine, infallible authority established by Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church.... Is it not strange that those who make the Bible their only teacher should inconsistently follow in this matter the tradition of the Church?"--"Question Box " by Conway, 1903 Edition, pages 254, 255.

"QUESTION: Which is the Sabbath day?
"ANSWER: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

"QUESTION: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
"ANSWER: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." --Peter Geiermann, "The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine," Second Edition, 1910, page 50.

"It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ has transferred this rest to the Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] church." --MGR. Segur, "Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today," page 213.

"QUESTION: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
"ANSWER: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." --Stephen Keenan, "A Doctrinal Catechism," page 174.

"QUESTION: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holydays?
"ANSWER: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.

"QUESTION: How prove you that?
"ANSWER: Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the Church's power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power."--Henry Tuberville, D. D., "An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine" (R. C.), page 58.

"Nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the seventh day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the church [Roman] outside the Bible."--Catholic Virginian, Oct. 3, 1947.

I can fulfil my Sunday obligation by participating at Mass on Saturday, so all your complaining about Sunday worship is meaningless. Your official looking quotes can't be checked on line for context, which is standard SDA methodology and not very honest.

 

[Truther]

Independent Evangelical churches follow the Baptist Successionist idea that the early church was de-centralized. They like to imagine that the early Christians met in their homes for Bible study and prayer, and that in this pure form they existed independently of any central authority. It is easy to imagine that long ago in the ancient world transportation and communication was rare and difficult and that no form of centralized church authority could have existed even if it was desirable.

The most straightforward reading of the Acts of the Apostles shows this to be untrue, and a further reading of early church documents shows this to be no more than a back-projected invention. In the Acts of the Apostles what we find is a church that is immediately centralized in Jerusalem. When Peter has his disturbing vision in which God directs him to admit the Gentiles to the Church, he references back at once to the apostolic leadership in Jerusalem.(Acts 11:2)

The mission of the infant church was directed from Jerusalem, with Barnabas and Agabus being sent to Antioch (Acts 11:22,27) The Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) was convened to decide on the Gentile decision and a letter of instruction was sent to the new churches in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia. (Acts 15:23) We see Philip, John Mark, Barnabas and Paul traveling to and from Jerusalem and providing a teaching and disciplinary link from the new churches back to the centralized church in Jerusalem.

After the martyrdom of James the leadership shifts to Peter and Paul. The authority is not centered on Jerusalem, but through their epistles to the various churches, we see a centralized authority that is vested in Peter and Paul as apostles. This central authority was very soon focused on Rome, so that St Ignatius, a bishop of the church in Antioch would write to the Romans in the year 108 affirming that their church was the one that had the “superior place in love among the churches.’”

Historian Eamon Duffy suggests that the earliest leadership in the Roman church may have been more conciliar than monarchical because in his letter to the Corinthians, Clement of Rome doesn’t write as the Bishop of Rome, but even if this is so Duffy confirms that the early church believed Clement was the fourth Bishop of Rome and read Clement’s letter as support for centralized Roman authority. He also concedes that by the time of Irenaeus in the mid second century the centralizing role of the Bishop of Rome was already well established. From then on, citation after citation from the apostolic Fathers can be compiled to show that the whole church from Gaul to North Africa and from Syria to Spain affirm the primacy of the Bishop of Rome as the successor of Peter and Paul.

The acceptance of this centralized authority was a sign of belonging to the one true church so that St Jerome could write to Pope Damasus in the mid 300s, “I think it is my duty to consult the chair of Peter, and to turn to a church whose faith has been praised by Paul… My words are spoken to the successor of the fisherman, to the disciple of the cross. As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is with the chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the church is built!”

Was the Early Church Local and Congregational?

We find no evidence of a network of independent, local churches ruled democratically by individual congregations. Instead, from the beginning we find the churches ruled by elders (bishops) So in the New Testament we find the apostles appointing elders in the churches. (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5) The elders kept in touch with the apostles and with the elders of the other churches through travel and communication by epistle. (I Pt.1:1; 5:1) Anne Rice, the author of the Christ the Lord series of novels, points out how excellent and rapid the lines of communication and travel were in the Roman Empire.

In the early church we do not find independent congregations meeting on their own and determining their own affairs by reading the Bible. We have to remember that in the first two centuries there was no Bible as such for the canon of the New Testament had not yet been decided. Instead, from the earliest time we find churches ruled by the bishops and clergy whose authenticity is validated by their succession from the apostles. So Clement of Rome writes, “Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, that there would be strife on the question of the bishop’s office. Therefore for this reason… they appointed the aforesaid persons and later made further provision that if they should fall asleep other tested men should succeed to their ministry.” Ignatius of Antioch in Syria writes letters to six different churches and instructs the Romans, “be submissive to the bishop and to one another as Jesus Christ was to the Father and the Apostles to Christ…that there may be unity.”

This apostolic ministry was present in each city, but centralized in Rome. The idea of a church being independent, local and congregational is rejected. Thus, by the late second century Irenaeus writes, “Those who wish to see the truth can observe in every church the tradition of the Apostles made manifest in the whole world…therefore we refute those who hold unauthorized assemblies…by pointing to the greatest and oldest church, a church known to all men, which was founded and established at Rome by the most renowned Apostles Peter and Paul…for this Church has the position of leadership and authority, and therefore every church, that is, the faithful everywhere must needs agree with the church at Rome for in her the apostolic tradition has ever been preserved by the faithful from all parts of the world.”

Authority of the First Popes - Fr. Dwight Longenecker

Question for all. We know that scribes copied the original scriptures before they were destroyed by disintegration. Were these historic events copied like the original manuscripts of scripture?

 

[Truther]

THIS, coming from a guy who rejects the Early Church Fathers as "Fraudulent Teachers" - yet staunchly adheres to the Canon of Scripture that THEY compiled and declared as "Inspired".

If it weren't for hypocriisy - YOU wouldn't have a voice at all . . .

If it is not from scripture it is not to be adhered to. It is simple as that.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn't address what??, and now its proof I lied that makes zero sense at all, your angry and want to be vicious. Point where I lied your saying I knew before hand because that's the only way someone lies if they know the truth before they lie about it?.

I give you one example of changes in catholic doctrine the vatican 2, pope Francis wants to change more stuff. the catholics have changed modernization since the beginning to keep with worldly things sorry but it no lie.

You addressed absolutely NOTHING.

YOU said that Catholic doctrine had “change considerably”. When I asked you for an example – you FAILED to to give me one. All you said was “Vatrican 2”. What does that mean?? Give me a specific example of a SINGLE doctrine that has “change considerably”.

You ALSO claimed that we pray to Mary depending on the “severity” of sin.
This is a CROCK. ALL prayers to saints are simply petitions for them to pray FOR us – as the Scripture prescribe (James 5:16, Rev. 5:8).
YOU made the asinine claim that Mary was NOT concerned for the hosts at the Wedding at Cana – so she asked Jesus to make more wine simply because she wanted to “Party”.
These are idiotic statements that YOU have made without ANY Scriptural, historical or linguistic support, whatsoever.

So, don’t act surprised when I expose your lies.
I gave you PLENTY of chances to recant.

 

[BreadOfLife]

"You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [Catholicsl never sanctify." --James Cardinal Gibbons, "The Faith of Our Fathers," page 111.

"There is but one church on the face of the earth which has the power, or claims power, to make laws binding on the conscience, binding before God, binding under penalty of hell-fire. For instance, the institution of Sunday. What right has any other church to keep this day? You answer by virtue of the third commandment [the Papacy changed the fourth commandment and called it the third], which says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' But Sunday is not the Sabbath. Any schoolboy knows that Sunday is the first day of the week. I have repeatedly offered one thousand dollars to anyone who will prove by the Bible alone that Sunday is the day we are hound to keep, and no one has called for the money. It was the holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest from Saturday, the seventh day, to Sunday, the first day of the week."--T. Enright, C. S. S. R., in a lecture delivered in 1893.

"Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible." --James Cardinal Gibbons, Catholic Mirror, Dec. 23, 1983.

"QUESTION: What Bible authority is there for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week? Who gave the pope the authority to change a command of God?
"ANSWER: if the Bible is the only guide for the Christian, then the Seventh-day Adventist is right in observing the Saturday with the Jew. But Catholics learn what to believe and do from the divine, infallible authority established by Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church.... Is it not strange that those who make the Bible their only teacher should inconsistently follow in this matter the tradition of the Church?"--"Question Box " by Conway, 1903 Edition, pages 254, 255.

"QUESTION: Which is the Sabbath day?
"ANSWER: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

"QUESTION: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
"ANSWER: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." --Peter Geiermann, "The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine," Second Edition, 1910, page 50.

"It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ has transferred this rest to the Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] church." --MGR. Segur, "Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today," page 213.

"QUESTION: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
"ANSWER: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." --Stephen Keenan, "A Doctrinal Catechism," page 174.

"QUESTION: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holydays?
"ANSWER: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.

"QUESTION: How prove you that?
"ANSWER: Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the Church's power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power."--Henry Tuberville, D. D., "An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine" (R. C.), page 58.

"Nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the seventh day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the church [Roman] outside the Bible."--Catholic Virginian, Oct. 3, 1947.

It’s ALWAYS the same argument with you – and you NEVER get it.

This isn’t about an “Apostolic Mandate” to “change” the Sabbath – so, not only are all of the quotes above correct – they are irrelevant.

There was never an Apostolic mandate or an order. What there WAS, however, was the acknowledgement that the Sabbath was a SHADOW of Christ – and NOT a necessity for Gentile Christians (Acts 15:24-29, Col. 2:14-17).

The problem with radical Sabbatarians is that you can’t let go of the SHADOW and embrace the FULFILLMENT, which is Christ. I think this is at the root of why you’re so willing to cling to the bizarre teachings of Ellen White.