Why OSAS teaches all sins already forgiven

[Alfredthefifth]

I thank those that have made me read scriptures.
Read the scriptures the way a Christian counselor, teacher, pastor and mentor showed me to.
That is in full, the fullness of the text and to take the text in context with it self. Because I have seen claims made for one or to verses that do not hold in context to the entire text.

Whether it is the Psalmist, a man who knew how vile and sinful he was while praising God for Greatness and goodness and faithfulness. That is vs1 and 2 of Psalm 106

In verse three he writes

Blessed are those who act justly, who always do what is right

This I am told is a command to be sinless

But in context with verse 4 to 48 this

Blessed are those who act justly, who always what is right.

Becomes, that isn't me and not my people, look at all these sins and failures

But you LORD are always faithful remembering your covenant even as we break that covenant repeatedly!.

Romans 11

Two verses are said to be
"See you have to be sinless!"
In context with the chapter, it reads

See you jews all you had to do was soften your hearts, let go of your laws and stiffnecks.
Because this gift is given to all people you can be broken off and replaced.

Once saved always saved?

Chapter 11 of Romans , paraphrased

If you have the gift of covenant to salvation you lose it through pride and conceit!

I am accused of being a Once Saved Always Saved, simply because I admit I am a sinner, even though I have had rebirth in Christ, my natural state is a sinner.

Jesus taught pride and conceit is the largest obstacles to heaven.

So this OSAS Christian claims my humble spirit being an admitted sinner and humbled by this can look forward to salvation. But I can lose that salvation to PRIDE, CONCEIT AND BOASTING!

TAKE one or two verses and hold those against me? I am comfortable that my simple understanding in reading the whole scripture pulls me forward.

While a "see you can't be saved because you don’t believe this fragment of Scripture as I do is a prideful boast that will work towards your judgment!" Not judgment of me because you have my pity, but by God.

Al

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Read the scriptures the way a Christian counselor, teacher, pastor and mentor showed me to.
That is in full, the fullness of the text and to take the text in context with it self.

The whole Bible taken in context is a strong furious rebuke to sinners.

Not to the righteous.

So God provides man a perfect sacrifice to be made righteous. Does it seem logical to you to continue in sin after this free pardon from God?

The whole context of the New Testament is a detailed discourse of sin. You cannot claim ignorance as a believer. You cannot feel sorry multiple times. After the first pardon it becomes a game. God is not mocked.

You know better!

Stop obeying your lustful desires of the flesh. Learn to suffer wrong, learn to be treated unfairly without complaint, learn to carry your cross!

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin” (1 Peter 4:1)

Otherwise you are of those described here:

“Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray” (2 Peter 2:14-15)

 

[Wrangler]

Peter was not saved when he denied Christ (who hadn’t been crucified yet).

Not sure what this time dependent function is or where it can from. Peter believed Jesus was God’s Anointed but denied him anyway. You don’t consider that a sin?

The problem with OSAS is pivoting on the notion of being saved and ex-post facto declare when they sin again that they were never saved to begin with.

 

[Wrangler]

Does it seem logical to you to continue in sin after this free pardon from God?

Where in God’s green Earth do you get the idea that it is logical to sin? Sin is an addiction that overcomes man’s capacity to reason.

As Paul said, I don’t do the things I should and do the things I shouldn’t. These are words of one who recognized his addictive actions are not logical.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Paul said, I don’t do the things I should and do the things I shouldn’t. These are words of one who recognized his addictive actions are not logical.

Romans 7 is describing a man in the flesh.

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.” (Romans 7:5)

Romans 8 describes where the new born again man abides.

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you…” (Romans 8:9)

 

[Wrangler]

Romans 7 is describing a man in the flesh

Right, but you are changing the reference point from one who is saved and then turns from God to sin.

You deny the very topic under conversation. Why does Jesus talk about salt losing its flavor and vines being thrown into the fire?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Why does Jesus talk about salt losing its flavor and vines being thrown into the fire?

To show the dangers of sin and returning to sin.

The topic morphs and alters. Like all topics. I just address the issues as they present themselves.

 

[Taken]

There you go again with the ex post facto.

Nope. Just stating a fact. Peter Believed in Jesus, but was not saved, and thus could deny Jesus.

Ex post facto, Did not apply to Peter until AFTER Jesus was ascended and Peter became Converted.

What relevance does this have?

Conversion.

Any and every sin a fleshy person can make.

So you can not identify what sin is. Okay.

 

[Behold]

Is Joe Blow Saved because he believes?

It depens on what JB believes.
God accepts our FAITH to give us the Gift of Salvation, but our Faith has to be IN = what God requires, that is explained as : "the work of God".

"The WORK of God, is that you BELIEVE on JESUS, whom God sent".

That is the FAITH that God accepts, to apply the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, to you. Which is the "Gift of Righteousness".

Being born again is the only proof that JB or anyone else is saved.

 

[Wrangler]

There is a verse where Paul commands, not fleshy people, but those who accept Jesus as their lord to take all thoughts in obedience to Christ.

There is only one logical reason to say this. He knows those who have been saved by Christ could give into temptation to sin.

 

[Wrangler]

Ex post facto, Did not apply to Peter until AFTER Jesus was ascended and Peter became Converted.

Where do you get this time dependent function from? John 3:16 does not say this.

 

[Behold]

“…we should be holy and without blame before him in love…” (Ephesians 1:4)

.

You can't be HOLY before GOD, of yourself, as you are a sinner, needing a Savior.

Let me show you something....

Lets say, that JANE is a whore, and you are a Believer.
Jane, likes to go to a food store and help old people in the parking lot, load their food in their car.
Lets say You also like to do this for the old people.
WHat is the difference between Jane the whore doing this good deed, and you the Beleiver doing the same good WORK?

A.) = Nothing

See that WORK.???
You did it. THe whore did it, and its MEANINGLESS to God, because that good work, and all your commandment keeping, and your water baptism, and your church membership cannot make you HOLY, because none of that can deal with your SIN.
You are not HOLY< unless GOD makes you RIGHTEOUS through the BLOOD of JESUS, and you can't do that by trying to be good, or by confessing sin, Michiah-Imla.
Its GOD who makes you righteous, by giving you the "gift of Righteosness", if you give God your Faith in Christ.

Your works after that happens, or before that happens, are the same...they are NOTHING....they are just works, and works and law and commandments, cant make you holy, or give you righteousness.

Listen...
You can keep commandments and be a Christ Rejector. You can be water baptized and go to Hell, and thousands did today, yesterday, and tomorrow.
Jesus said you MUST BE BORN AGAIN.....and that is not about works, or trying to be good, or being dunked in a pool of water.
You have to be MADE RIGHTEOUS by GOD., as your works are "filthy rags", because "all have SINNED and fallen short of the glory of God".
= ALL.
We are all unworthy, all unrighteous, until GOD gives us "the gift of Salvation" that causes us to become a NEW CREATION IN CHRIST, BORN AGAIN, which is to become "the righteousness of God in Christ".

You are not talking about any of that..in many posts to me today.
You are only talking about yourself trying to be "holy"...and THAT is not Salvation....that is SELF Righteousness, that is Legalism, and God rejects it.
Believe it.

 

[Alfredthefifth]

The spirit is a very blessed thing for those experience it.

It didn't kill the sinful flesh for those that
experienced it or they I would be in heaven.

There are two questions for those that claim to be born again.

Why didn’t the spirit kill your pride, your talking down on me or anyone else.

Or is the pride and talking down to the result of not being reborn at all but the need to be seen as reborn?

The blessings of the spirit are Humble Service, being a a humble servant.
A blessing of a loving spirit, teaching salvation lovingly, tenderly.

@Michiah-Imla

Yes the Bible is A rebuke to sin.

But it also is a promise of forgiveness and salvation.

Undeserved forgiveness!

If God was as stiffnecked as man Jesus would never have wasted his time. The people he by covenant came to save had how many hundreds generations of rebellion against the covenant. How many generations of out right sin.
And then on top of it all the Jews the people of the covenant had to be in full rebellion so that the promise in the covenant was fullfilled.

Yet Jesus came anyway!

Yet Jesus came anyway!

How does this fit into your stiffnecked selective Gospel?

Jesus came anyway, despite the rebellion despite the history of sin and the sins against him and the sins of all the future!

Jesus came anyway!

What Jesus taught while he was here can best be summed up in the words: love, humility and service.

The bible condems sin BUT JESUS CAME ANYWAY! To work salvation for all how believe!

In pretty much Jesus's words,

I didn't come to save the righteous because they are already saved. I came to save that which can be saved.

He came to save fallible sinners that will always be sinners because those are the ones that can be saved.

So either you can't be a Christian if you believe you have no sin.
Or you are a miserable lier!

You have no sin? Why aren't you in heaven?
Jesus brushed off the (SELF)Righteous. Every and any story involving the Righteous in the Bible Jesus brushed those off in a way that proved false righteousness another term for self-righteousness, false righteousness.


Jesus came anyway! yet you talk down to me and others like me!

Repent! Before it is to late! Your righteousness convicts you!

Yes a struggling Christian

Alfredthefifth

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Behold

The righteousness of the unconverted sinner are as filthy rages. Isaiah 64:6

The righteousness of the converted saint are pleasing to God and brings glory to Him. 1 Peter 2:12; Matthew 5:16

Go read your Bible. It’s the only thing that can help you if you listen to it and unlearn the lies.

You are stuck in your kindergarten doctrine.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Why didn’t the spirit kill your pride

So it’s prideful now to preach righteousness.

That’s rich.

 

[Behold]

@Behold

The righteousness of the unconverted sinner are as filthy rages. Isaiah 64:6
.

Everyone BORN, becomes the unconverted sinner.

"ALL have fallen short". "ALL Have sinned".

That means you, and me, and ALL people, humans...

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You have no sin? Why aren't you in heaven?

Jesus took sin away from those who believe John 1:29

I’m not in heaven yet because I’m still walking the earth in the Spirit.

Try walking the earth in the Spirit, not in the flesh. Galatians 5:16

 

[Behold]

So it’s prideful now to preach righteousness.

That’s rich.

You are not Preaching God's Righteousness, you are only stating that God wants us to be holy.
You think this is you doing it, which is exactly how it can't happen.

God has to give you SALVATION, based on the Cross of Christ.
Why do you think you never say a WORD about the CROSS or the Blood of Jesus?
You just quote some random verse that talks about holiness, yet you can't expain HOW GOD makes you Holy.
You think you do it, and that theology or "preaching" DENIES the Cross, by replacing it with self effort.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

"ALL have fallen short". "ALL Have sinned".

“have” is past tense.

We do not continue falling short after conversion. That’s what we used to do when:

“…in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.” (Ephesians 2:2-3)

 

[Behold]

We do not continue falling short after conversion. )

You have sinned and confessed after your "conversion".
How many times? ???

So, you can deny that, and then you'll have to confess that to God, later.