Why don't Sabbath Day Commanders ever speak of the Inner Man?

[Taken]

Until I joined the forums I knew very little about SDA's, JW's, Mormons, Catholics or any denomination except the one I primarily grew up in... to which I quit when the pastor announced he would be teaching the doctrines of that denomination for the next 6 weeks.
I have family and friends that belong to various denominations and I love them regardless.
Why is it so important for any denominations doctrine to be taught and/or thrown in the face of another's doctrine.
Doesn't scripture say to avoid the doctrines of man?
Anyway, there are so many doctrines in this world that Jesus message gets choked out from all the debating between one another.
Will there ever be unity of faith?
I believe there will be when the separation of the wheat and tares takes place.
Ok...jm2c...carrying on with debating your doctrines.:cool:

Every Church established upon the ROCK Jesus established for His Church...being;
“Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God”

Is revealed by every individual man established church, of THAT ^ , or something else, being what “that church” is built upon.

Beyond that VERY BASIC “intent and purpose” of any man-established. Church....the times for gathering, the rituals, the titles given clerics, the programs, the entertainment, the attire code, blah, blah, blah...are simply rules that define a particular denomination, and utterly irrelevant in the Big Picture.
It’s merely a list of can do, must do, can’t do and individuals who agree and “expect a particular behavior” when gathering in that “particular” church.

Expecting; Ladies to wear a Dress...
* Eh, Ladies wear whatever.
Expecting; Sermon lead by a man in particular Garb.
* Eh, Sermon lead by a man wearing whatever.
Expecting; Monotone somber Preaching.
* Eh, Boisterous Preaching and Thumping.
Expecting; A Quietly listening Congregation.
* Eh, a Jumping, running, hooting, hollering Congregation.
Expecting; a Paraded Congregation carrying trinkets, bowing, gesturing
* Eh, an entering Congregation, greeting others, taking a seat.
Expecting the Cleric to make the Congregation feel good about Jesus.
* Eh, the Congregation hoping to feel good about themselves.

Every “denomination” has it’s “niche” that individual’s are comfortable with, and thus individuals choose to go and participate in what they like. AND the endless Debate...

IMO...the real issue is; UPON WHAT, was a Church established...

Every Church established upon the ROCK Jesus established for His Church...being;
“Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God”
Or...something or someone else.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I attended an sda church for a few weeks to please a friend. It was relentlessly stressed ''you must obey the ten commandments'' That was kinda new to me, for in the churches I had always attended you seldom if ever heard that statement. Anyway, while I was at the sda church I was stunned to hear people taking the Lords name in vain and laughing as they did so, apparantly unaware they were breaking the ten commandments. I had never before witnessed that in any church I had ever been to. One woman I found out was having multiple affairs, some overlapping, whilst turning up at church each week immaculately dressed with her bible. She too insisted the ten commandments must be obeyed. I said to her once. ''How can you have all these affairs, you're breaking the ten commandments'' She shrugged her shoulders and replied ''All sin is equal and no ones perfect.'' I could go on and on

I get your point, yet do not exclusively accredit the “SDA” church for individual “members” behaviors. Individuals “members of every denomination” are still Individuals accountable for their “behaviors”.

I use to often work Saturday night shifts, and at the end of shift hear the locker room, foul mouthed and cussing and complaining exchange of hurrying to get ready to get to Church, to be SEEN attending, So they could thereafter attend Get together meals, and NOT be singled out for not being SEEN attending Church! A routine and rather disgusting display.
(Couldn’t say, “their” denominations, didn’t ask.)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[savedbygrace1]

Truly amazing what you heard in a few weeks. Maybe you could name where the Church is?......I would like to check your information.

I get your point, yet do not exclusively accredit the “SDA” church for individual “members” behaviors. Individuals “members of every denomination” are still Individuals accountable for their “behaviors”.

I use to often work Saturday night shifts, and at the end of shift hear the locker room, foul mouthed and cussing and complaining exchange of hurrying to get ready to get to Church, to be SEEN attending, So they could thereafter attend Get together meals, and NOT be singled out for not being SEEN attending Church! A routine and rather disgusting display.
(Couldn’t say, “their” denominations, didn’t ask.)

Glory to God,
Taken

I have a theory. For the believer, it is now a law written in the mind and placed on the heart, NOT one written in ink. A law in your most inward parts, will always convict you of sin, to a far greater degree than a law written in ink. You cannot hide from a law in your heart and mind, it is part of your dna so to speak. But what if people look to a written law to glean which laws they believe are applicable? What if they hang everything on that? They would not have such great conviction of sin. Hence, they might well laughingly take the Lords name in vain without consciousness of sin by doing so.
How would someone know they should avoid the levitical unclean foods for example(if that is what they chose to do) Would they know instinctively because the law is in their heart and mind? Or, would they have to read law written in ink to know that?
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

 

[Taken]

I have a theory. For the believer, it is now a law written in the mind and placed on the heart, NOT one written in ink. A law in your most inward parts, will always convict you of sin, to a far greater degree than a law written in ink. You cannot hide from a law in your heart and mind, it is part of your dna so to speak. But what if people look to a written law to glean which laws they believe are applicable? What if they hang everything on that? They would not have such great conviction of sin. Hence, they might well laughingly take the Lords name in vain without consciousness of sin by doing so.
How would someone know they should avoid the levitical unclean foods for example(if that is what they chose to do) Would they know instinctively because the law is in their heart and mind? Or, would they have to read law written in ink to know that?
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

I get your point, but would change the “emphasis” of the “law” written in a mans heart (ie act of God) applicable to the “Converted”, not the “Believer”.

“Believer” is declared in a secular world, implying “a Belief”... on that day. Scripture reveals, and even has numerous warnings about men relying on their own power, can easily be duped and fall away from believing. So what does any man believe from day to day, who knows?

“Converted” is entirely different, with a permanent relationship established between one man and the Lord God, that is never in jeopardy of being severed. Their new heart carries the very “law” Jesus Himself expressed...They have the greatest Power that exists IN Them, who could fail, and Speak in a Manner Against God?

Mark 12:
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
[31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

* The prominence of these TWO Commanding Laws, IS they never become “fulfilled, finished”, rather they “continue on and on”.
* And the assuredness of those TWO Commanding Laws, TO continue on and on...IN a Converted man...IS the Power of God IS “IN” them.

* And further consideration; My sin Was Against God. God offered me a way for Him to forgive me of having been naturally born Against Him, corrupting my soul, before I knew of Him. I accepted His Offering.
Done deal. (Regardless and without consideration of my agreement or disagreement, with other men.)
* Yet men put themselves in an equality standard of God, as if men sin against men, and men forgive men of sin. I find that a confusion with men Trespassing Against men, and men being taught to forgive men of Trespasses of men. ( a long historical and corrupt teaching IMO ).

Just Sharing,
Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dropship]

The bottom line is that we don't need pastors and ministers and denominations to do our thinking for us..:)
Jesus said-"You have one teacher, me" (Matthew 23:10)
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

 

[Brakelite]

The bottom line is that we don't need pastors and ministers and denominations to do our thinking for us..:)
Jesus said-"You have one teacher, me" (Matthew 23:10)
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

Couldn't agree more. Jesus asked, when I come will I find faith in the earth? This faith, as Taken said, is more than simply a belief in a general sense. It's a trust and a concrete assurance that what God says, He means. Second guessing, excusing, finding fault, and even searching scripture to discover reasons why God didn't mean what He says any more, are expressions of a complete lack of faith. They no longer believe God. Which is far worse than not believing He exists. These are people who profess to believe in God, but no longer believe His word. And in respect to this topic, they no longer believe the 4th Commandment. That is a lack of faith.

 

[Dropship]

..Second guessing, excusing, finding fault, and even searching scripture to discover reasons why God didn't mean what He says any more, are expressions of a complete lack of faith..

Yes, Jesus said as much-
"You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5:39-40)
And Paul had to remind them-
"I am worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:3)

 

[post]

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."1 John 2:3
Our church believes that this verse is referring to the 10 Commandments.

And for those who believe that this verse is referring to these verses
Matt 22:37-39
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

These verses are not new. They are from the Old Testament

Deut 6:5 "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might" and
Lev 19:18"18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord."

did you notice that neither Deuteronomy 6 nor Leviticus 19 happen to be the 10 commandments?

 

[post]

The Sabbath was given to strengthen the inner man for the next week. That's the whole point behind God commanding this day to be devoted to worshiping Him. This is a stupid argument.

physical things only feed the physical body
only spiritual things feed the spiritual body

what's born of the flesh is flesh; what's born of the spirit is spirit

 

[post]

I didn't know oxen had an inner man to strengthen.

• אֲשֶׁ֨ר
  • whatever
• יִקְרָא־
  • called
• ל֧וֹ
  • to [be]
• הָֽאָדָ֛ם
  • Adam
• נֶ֥פֶשׁ
  • [each] soul
• חַיָּ֖ה
  • living
• ה֥וּא
  • that [was]
• שְׁמֽוֹ׃
  • its name

 

[BarneyFife]

Out of all the ad naseum attempts of Sabbath commanders to command every Christian on the planet to keep their Sabbath day, the exact way they do, Outwardly, I can't recall them ever speaking of actually worshiping God.

And if they did, then it certainly is not in Spirit and in truth, but in day of the week only.

Apparently, the outer man is everything, and the inner man is nothing.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

I find it puzzling that any Christian would want to start a thread predicated on, and devoid of anything but blackening the eyes of other Christians worshiping and/or witnessing according to the dictates of their conscience.

This is sadly typical of the comments made online in hostility toward God's (Jesus's) holy and beneficent law and those who proclaim (not command) it, along with the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12 is one of the most defining statements of the mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Jesus is all the world to me, so much so that I wouldn't care to draw breath without Him as my Lord, Redeemer, and Best Friend. Sorry if that doesn't measure up to your requirements of "Spirit and truth."

I used to spend a lot of time defending the church and the Sabbath in response to malignant statements like this, but I'm finding more and more that it avails nothing. It is a trick of the devil to get brethren to contending and debating points that have already been made plain until charity is laid in the dust, and Christ is forgotten.

I pray that you will never see the day that, all too late, you realize the delightful (Isaiah 58:13) gift (Ezekiel 20:12) from Jesus (Matthew 12:8) that you have despised.

God bless.

♫ He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today, ♫
♫ He walks with me and talks with me ♫
♫ Along life's narrow way. ♫
♫ He lives, He lives, salvation to impart, ♫
♫ You ask me how I know He lives: ♫
♫ He LIVES... within... my heart! ♫

:)

 

[robert derrick]

I find it puzzling that any Christian would want to start a thread predicated on, and devoid of anything but blackening the eyes of other Christians worshiping and/or witnessing according to the dictates of their conscience.

This is sadly typical of the comments made online in hostility toward God's (Jesus's) holy and beneficent law and those who proclaim (not command) it, along with the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12 is one of the most defining statements of the mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Jesus is all the world to me, so much so that I wouldn't care to draw breath without Him as my Lord, Redeemer, and Best Friend. Sorry if that doesn't measure up to your requirements of "Spirit and truth."

I used to spend a lot of time defending the church and the Sabbath in response to malignant statements like this, but I'm finding more and more that it avails nothing. It is a trick of the devil to get brethren to contending and debating points that have already been made plain until charity is laid in the dust, and Christ is forgotten.

I pray that you will never see the day that, all too late, you realize the delightful (Isaiah 58:13) gift (Ezekiel 20:12) from Jesus (Matthew 12:8) that you have despised.

God bless.

♫ He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today, ♫
♫ He walks with me and talks with me ♫
♫ Along life's narrow way. ♫
♫ He lives, He lives, salvation to impart, ♫
♫ You ask me how I know He lives: ♫
♫ He LIVES... within... my heart! ♫

:)

I have reported you for a personal attack on my intent and character that is false.

This is not about sabbath keepers by conscience, but about sabbath commanders who accuse faithful christians of being guilty just like murderers and thieves, who do not obey their commandment to keep a sabbath.

I point out their complete lack of the Spirit and worship of Christ in doing so.

If you are not going to read what is given as it is written, but assume false intent, then that is your choice. But to then accuse others accordingly is called a false accusation based upon your own false judgement.

 

[BarneyFife]

This is not about sabbath keepers by conscience, but about sabbath commanders who accuse faithful christians of being guilty just like murderers and thieves,

...which you do not have the omniscience to distinguish between.

who do not obey their commandment to keep a sabbath.

It is God's commandment. God is the "Sabbath Commander" at Whom you point the finger. (Matthew 25:40)

I point out their complete lack of the Spirit and worship of Christ in doing so.

...which you speculate, but do not demonstrate.

If you are not going to read what is given as it is written, but assume false intent, then that is your choice.

I appreciate you granting me a choice, however:

The very title of your thread is a sweeping generalization of an indictment of an imaginary group of people.

But to then accuse others accordingly is called a false accusation based upon your own false judgement.

This isn't my first rodeo, Robert.

I've been dodging these darts for 32 years.

People start these threads and then expect the Sabbath-keepers to just clam up.

You're not kidding anybody but yourself.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

If not, my apologies to you.

But methinks thou dost protest too much.

Who are the Sabbath Day Commanders, Robert?

Name one person on Christianity Board who has commanded you to keep the 4th commandment (besides God, Himself). Just one.

I promise not to rat you out for falsely accusing me of falsely accusing you - lol.

("Judgment" is spelled with one "e," people.)

 

[BarneyFife]

I attended an sda church for a few weeks to please a friend. It was relentlessly stressed ''you must obey the ten commandments'' That was kinda new to me, for in the churches I had always attended you seldom if ever heard that statement. Anyway, while I was at the sda church I was stunned to hear people taking the Lords name in vain and laughing as they did so, apparantly unaware they were breaking the ten commandments. I had never before witnessed that in any church I had ever been to. One woman I found out was having multiple affairs, some overlapping, whilst turning up at church each week immaculately dressed with her bible. She too insisted the ten commandments must be obeyed. I said to her once. ''How can you have all these affairs, you're breaking the ten commandments'' She shrugged her shoulders and replied ''All sin is equal and no ones perfect.'' I could go on and on

I don't even believe this. I've been an Adventist for 32 years and I've never heard of such a thing. It's just ridiculous. And why would a Christian even spread such gossip? No evidence, no names. I call "BULL!" And, for the life of me, I can't understand why the concept of obedience to God's law, is so foreign to Christians, when all you have to do is read any book over 40 years old authored by a Christian to see that the subject was just as common as could be. I feel like Rip Van Winkle. I just woke up one day and virtually all Christians had decided to jettison the ten commandments. Absolutely surreal and cognitive dissonance-inducing.

Question:
Some religious people I know tell me that the ten commandments are a part of the law and do not apply to us today. They say that, as Christians, we are free from the law. Is that right?

Answer from Evangelist Billy Graham (1918-2018):
No, it is not right, and I hope you'll not be misled by these false opinions. It is important to understand what the New Testament means when it says that Christians are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they are free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin. You see the word "law" is used by the New Testament writers in two senses: Sometimes it refers to the ceremonial law of the Old Testament which is concerned about ritual matters and regulations regarding food and drink and things of this kind. This ceremonial law was of a passing character and was done away when Christ came. From this law Christians are indeed free. But, the New Testament also speaks of a moral law which is of a permanent, unchanging character and is summarized in the ten commandments. This law sets forth God's demands on human life and man's duty to God and neighbor, and that it definitely applies to the Christian is made clear in Romans 10:8-10. Of course, it is quite true that the Christian is not saved by his efforts to keep the law but, as one who is saved by God's mercy through faith in Christ, He is under an obligation to obey God's law. As it has been said, in Christ we are free from sin but not free to sin. "If you love me," He said, "keep my commandments."

 

[robert derrick]

...which you do not have the omniscience to distinguish between.

No omniscience, but only reading what is posted: those who command a sabbath for all Christians to keep, or be declared disobedient to God, even as murderers and thieves.

Your personal attack was a sidestep of the honest observation, which you have not refuted by posting evidence otherwise.

...which you do not have the omniscience to distinguish between.

It is God's commandment. God is the "Sabbath Commander" at Whom you point the finger. (Matthew 25:40)

Do you also condemn people, who keep not a sabbath, as disobedient to the commandments of God, even as murderers and thieves, and rapists?

If not, then this commandment you preach is not a commandment of the Lord.

...which you speculate, but do not demonstrate.

I observed no such acknowledgement of worshipping Christ in the Spirit. You do not show otherwise. That demonstrates the truth of it.

.
People start these threads and then expect the Sabbath-keepers to just clam up.

Frankly, I expected them to do as you are: sidestep the point made and resort to personal attack.

So they did with Jesus, when He exposed men's commandments taught for doctrine of God.

Who are the Sabbath Day Commanders, Robert?

Name one person on Christianity Board who has commanded you to keep the 4th commandment (besides God, Himself). Just one.

Since the Sabbath of the Lord is no more the commandment of Christ to His people, since His resurrection, then anyone declaring a sabbath to keep as by commandment, is commanding others to do so by their own will.

If you respond to the point of the thread, to disprove it, or to explain it, then I'd be glad to hear it. Until then, there is no more use engaging you.

I don't get caught up in side issues nor personal attacks. And I certainly do not care anymore to try and correct sabbath commanders for Christian saints.

 

[BarneyFife]

There's nothing to disprove in a clickbait thread with an OP consisting entirely of a malicious accusation with no demonstration of evidence.

Speaking of sidestepping, where are the names of the "Sabbath Commanders?"

 

[BarneyFife]

I observed no such acknowledgement of worshipping Christ in the Spirit. You do not show otherwise. That demonstrates the truth of it.

No, Robert, it really doesn't. The burden of proof is always on the accuser, as which the very title of the thread identifies you.

Since the Sabbath of the Lord is no more the commandment of Christ to His people, since His resurrection, then anyone declaring a sabbath to keep as by commandment, is commanding others to do so by their own will.

No, Robert, they really aren't. How can the "Sabbath of the Lord" no longer be the "Sabbath of the Lord" at the point of His resurrection? His people even were careful to keep it while He kept it in the grave.

 

[BarneyFife]

I certainly do not care anymore to try and correct sabbath commanders

Who are the elusive "Sabbath Commanders," Robert?

 

[BarneyFife]

Frankly, I expected them to do as you are: sidestep the point made and resort to personal attack.

So they did with Jesus, when He exposed men's commandments taught for doctrine of God.

Getting a lot of mileage out of the "personal attack" baloney, eh?

What are the side issues?

Congratulations on your martyrdom, by the way.

I wonder if anyone was actually ever been martyred from suffering a little sarcasm and hyperbole. (?)

 

[savedbygrace1]

I don't even believe this. I've been an Adventist for 32 years and I've never heard of such a thing. It's just ridiculous. And why would a Christian even spread such gossip? No evidence, no names. I call "BULL!" And, for the life of me, I can't understand why the concept of obedience to God's law, is so foreign to Christians, when all you have to do is read any book over 40 years old authored by a Christian to see that the subject was just as common as could be. I feel like Rip Van Winkle. I just woke up one day and virtually all Christians had decided to jettison the ten commandments. Absolutely surreal and cognitive dissonance-inducing.

Question:
Some religious people I know tell me that the ten commandments are a part of the law and do not apply to us today. They say that, as Christians, we are free from the law. Is that right?

Answer from Evangelist Billy Graham (1918-2018):
No, it is not right, and I hope you'll not be misled by these false opinions. It is important to understand what the New Testament means when it says that Christians are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they are free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin. You see the word "law" is used by the New Testament writers in two senses: Sometimes it refers to the ceremonial law of the Old Testament which is concerned about ritual matters and regulations regarding food and drink and things of this kind. This ceremonial law was of a passing character and was done away when Christ came. From this law Christians are indeed free. But, the New Testament also speaks of a moral law which is of a permanent, unchanging character and is summarized in the ten commandments. This law sets forth God's demands on human life and man's duty to God and neighbor, and that it definitely applies to the Christian is made clear in Romans 10:8-10. Of course, it is quite true that the Christian is not saved by his efforts to keep the law but, as one who is saved by God's mercy through faith in Christ, He is under an obligation to obey God's law. As it has been said, in Christ we are free from sin but not free to sin. "If you love me," He said, "keep my commandments."

Oh it wasn't BULL I can assure you. BTW, the believer does not have a law written in ink anymore. How did you come to the conclusion you should go to church on a saturday?