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Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?


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DuckieLady

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1 Samuel 21:13
"So he pretended to be insane in their presence; and while he was in their hands he acted like a madman, making marks on the doors of the gate and letting saliva run down his beard."
Did David lie here?
That's one of my favorite "oh that's interesting" stories in the Bible.

I consider deception the same thing as lying.

Why people feel like God doesn't expect us to weigh alternatives and use our brain, be practical, and use common sense, I don't understand.

Not that it's okay to willingly go out of your way lying willy-nilly everywhere just because you are a liar, but if you have to choose between spending time acting nuts and allow God's purposes in your life to be complete, or being killed, what's the most logical common sense thing to do?

Then there you go
 
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GEN2REV

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Just for general information. There is a thread on lying and I did not respond to it.

Lying and trickery in the Old Testament and in Middle Eastern culture. It is actually a pretty deep topic.

First off as for as Rahab and her deception.
Rahab was a prostitute and and some believe even a medium...seer, because of what she said about knowing that Yahweh had given them the land. Her name also appears in the Bible and Jewish folklore as a dragon. References to this in the scriptures are Psalms 87:4, Psalms 89:10, and Isaiah 51:9

Rahab worked with Joshua's men...in his effort to conquer the city of Jericho as was directed by God Himself. You may have heard that Yeshua's name was a very common name in His time period and the Old Testament ....that is true. Joshua is a mistranslation.....No "J's" in the scriptures, Old or New Testament. His actual name was Yeshua.

Rahab hid Joshua's men and lied to the king. She made an agreement with Joshua's men that if she helped them that she and her family would be saved. Was that wrong? No, for a few reasons.

The Bible makes it clear that she is a believer in Yahweh as she is in awe of Him. So she was justified by both Faith and Good Deeds. James seemed to agree with this...in James 2:24-25, she was used as an example; "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?" ....and since she also believed in Yahweh, it was also a matter of faith. As it also appears she had an interest in changing her ways and joining the Israelites.

So in the end after Jericho fell to the army of Yeshua, Rahab and her whole family were preserved according to the promise of the spies, and she joined the Israelite people. She married Salmon of the Israelite Tribe of Judah and was the mother of Boaz. Christ also belonged to the Tribe of Judah. Salmon is listed in the bloodline of Christ, so Rahab is also in that bloodline as was her son Boaz. So it appears that Rahab found favor with Yahweh. According to the Talmud she repented of her sins.

Now as far as lying. Technically the Bible denounces lying...there is also bearing a false witness against those that are accused of wrong doing. The function of the Law was dependent upon the honesty of witnesses, but there is more details to that....in practice it is a matter of intent. In this time period as is today in the Middle East, trickery can be considered as a form of intelligence....sounds weird? Yahweh said, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. Jacob used trickery to best Esau and Laban and David and Hercules used trickery. Abraham was considered righteous but he would deceive people by saying Sarah was only his sister. (Which she was his half sister, but she was also his wife.) It is a topic, being smart enough to outwit someone. And it is a cultural thing even today in the Middle East. As a military person I can tell you that trickery is often used as a strategy. As a historian, I can tell you that trickery has been used in a lot ancient battles.

Christians have been taught to be honest and overall I agree. But if you always tell the truth anybody can pry into your personal life and you are obliged to answer truthfully. Not answering can be an answer.

Putting it into another perspective....we should not deceive for personal gain or benefit. Keeping a birthday party a secret or a gift a secret does not count. I do not even call it a white lie. Telling someone that is buying your car that you know of no issues....when you do know there are issues....is a lie. People have to use their own conscience on such matters.
Nice post.

God knows He has sent us into a world of enemies, as strangers among the wolves.

We are to be as harmless as doves, BUT ........ as wise and cunning as serpents (dragons).
Matthew 10:16

God bless.
 

GEN2REV

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Lot is actually Abraham’s nephew and yet he calls him brother (Genesis 14:14). So words like brother or sister have a wide semantic scope of meaning in their culture, and it could be in reference to any male relative from a different mother and father. Sarah was Abraham’s half sister and so he was not lying. Abraham did not say that she wasn’t his wife. He still told the truth in that she was his sister (Which is a true statement). The same applies to Isaac and Rebecca in that they both were related to each other.
You're gonna have a lot of positive Biblical characters to defend if you stay on this path of argument.

What about Jael who deceived Sisera to coax him into her tent so she could drive a tent peg through his temple as soon as he fell asleep?

What about Esther and Mordecai, when Esther deceived the King in an effort to protect and defend her people and got Haman and his 10 sons hanged for Haman's wickedness?

You've got an uphill battle to prove that all the good characters in the Bible never spoke an untruth.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Lot is actually Abraham’s nephew and yet he calls him brother (Genesis 14:14). So words like brother or sister have a wide semantic scope of meaning in their culture, and it could be in reference to any male relative from a different mother and father. Sarah was Abraham’s half sister and so he was not lying. Abraham did not say that she wasn’t his wife. He still told the truth in that she was his sister (Which is a true statement). The same applies to Isaac and Rebecca in that they both were related to each other.
You really can't read what Abraham was influencing the king of the people in the area to believe, can you? The context of those scriptures make it clear that Abraham led the king to believe that his wife was only his sister.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Part of God's love is his ultimate wisdom.

I think you might be missing the point.

But you brought up the point-

We're talking about David.

But it's not a sin, why? Because then let's put Rahab's in the same kind of place. Would God be angry with her because of her obedience in protecting the men?


Her family would have been killed so I'm pretty sure that was dark enough for anyone.


I believe God understands us and our motives - meaning He is an honest, compassionate, and merciful judge. I believe he cares about us and sees us as human beings who make mistakes.

I'm not saying we should tread on his grace, but that we should know He understands us. Everyone is so focused on a lie from Rahab, you miss the point that she was a prostitute.

So where is the message there that God still used a mistake from a sinful woman?

But I will use a note from Samson -

Judges 14:4

His parents did not know that this was from the LORD, who was seeking an occasion to confront the Philistines; for at that time they were ruling over Israel.

This verse is in reference to a relationship with a Philistine woman, that absolutely wasn't going to work out and it turned out horribly.

But note, "it was from the LORD."

Why?

Because He is good and had purpose. We are not wiser.

Why are we not paying attention to that side of the truth?

Jesus is the perfect one and not us.
God is all-knowing and more patient with us than we give him credit for.

You have a funny idea about sin. Doing a wrong to justify what is right is never good. I am not against the possibility of Rahab sinning, but there needs to be a good explanation for this in light of reading James 2:25.
 

Bible Highlighter

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In all fairness to @LadyofFireandLace she was citing David (when he killed the Philistines to obtain their foreskins to marry Saul’s daughter), not Samson.

Yes. My mistake. Wrong story. It still does not change anything. God’s standard of morality on lying cannot change. Lying is condemned because Satan is the father of lies.
 

Bible Highlighter

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You really can't read what Abraham was influencing the king of the people in the area to believe, can you? The context of those scriptures make it clear that Abraham led the king to believe that his wife was only his sister.

Nowhere does Abraham say that he denied Sarah was his wife and thereof it was not a lie. They did not ask him,…. “Is this your wife?” And Abraham replied…. “No.” That did not happen but only in your own imagination. He said that Sarah was his sister and that was a true statement.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Nowhere does Abraham say that he denied Sarah was his wife and thereof it was not a lie. They did not ask him,…. “Is this your wife?” And Abraham replied…. “No.” That did not happen but only in your own imagination. He said that Sarah was his sister and that was a true statement.
The scriptures are very clear that Abraham made the king believe and his people that Sarah was only his sister.
 

Bible Highlighter

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That's one of my favorite "oh that's interesting" stories in the Bible.

I consider deception the same thing as lying.

Why people feel like God doesn't expect us to weigh alternatives and use our brain, be practical, and use common sense, I don't understand.

Not that it's okay to willingly go out of your way lying willy-nilly everywhere just because you are a liar, but if you have to choose between spending time acting nuts and allow God's purposes in your life to be complete, or being killed, what's the most logical common sense thing to do?

Then there you go

Jesus is GOD almighty in the flesh and yet He did not let everyone know He met that He was GOD. It was revealed to Peter by the Father that Jesus is the Son of God. This was hid from others. At the time of Christ’s ministry: The mysteries of the Kingdom were not given to your average Jew, but they were given to Christ’s disciples. Christ’s Parables were an outward story that also a form of secret information (or a spiritual hidden message to it). But to the ordinary listener of a parable this just sounds like your average story. But it’s not. Jesus said destroy this temple and in three days I will rise it up again. Yet, Jesus did not tell them it was in reference to His body. At the transfiguration at the Mount, Jesus revealed His glory. Yet, He did not reveal this glory to all people. Again, this is a form of deception or hiding of truth. It does not mean Jesus was lying. For if Jesus lied, He could not be our spotless Lamb. This was a form of deception but it’s not bad deception but it’s good deception.

David employed a form of bad deception because he was not in any way telling the truth by his actions in pretending to be insane or crazy. David was not truly crazy, and so he was lying about his true mental state.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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The scriptures are very clear that Abraham made the king believe and his people that Sarah was only his sister.

Quote the text where you believe he lied and lets address it. I am not going to talk about hearsay of what you think the text said. You no doubt are reading something into the text that is not there.
 

Michiah-Imla

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So if you consider deception the same as lying then what do you make of when Jesus told the disciples that he was not going to the feast and yet he went in secret?

The corrupt modern Bibles, based on corrupt underlying texts, remove the word “yet”.

So this is not an issue as Jesus told the truth and went later to the feast.

“Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.” (John 7:8) KJV
 

Bible Highlighter

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The corrupt modern Bibles, based on corrupt underlying texts, remove the word “yet”.

So this is not an issue as Jesus told the truth and went later to the feast.

“Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.” (John 7:8) KJV

Ah, yes. I forgot about this one. Your right. But there are other places in the New Testament whereby Jesus said something and others thought the wrong thing. Many of His disciples stopped following Him because they thought He was talking about cannibalism (eat of my flesh and drink of my blood). But of course Jesus did not chase after them and say, “Hey wait. Come back. I was speaking in spiritual terms.” This did not happen. Jesus let them believe the wrong thing that they desired to believe. Jesus got even more bold and told His 12 disciples if they wanted to leave, too.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Ok, she knew where the spies were which was on the roof she spoke to the soldiers as though she didn't know where they were.

Look more carefully at her words. It could be read that way, but it also could be read in a way that she was referring to the spies’ final end destination. For if you took her words and placed it into the context of that kind of saying… and it fits… then viola…. I am right. Her words appear to fit as being spoken in a way that is clever word play, just like Jesus did many times saying things like… destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again. The Jews misunderstood Jesus because they thought he was referring to the most obvious thing just like you are doing. The Bible is not like a newspaper or magazine. It’s spiritual and it sometimes has hidden meanings within it.
 

Bible Highlighter

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You're gonna have a lot of positive Biblical characters to defend if you stay on this path of argument.

What about Jael who deceived Sisera to coax him into her tent so she could drive a tent peg through his temple as soon as he fell asleep?

What about Esther and Mordecai, when Esther deceived the King in an effort to protect and defend her people and got Haman and his 10 sons hanged for Haman's wickedness?

You've got an uphill battle to prove that all the good characters in the Bible never spoke an untruth.

What better way do you think God wants you to engage with His Word?
 

Bible Highlighter

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See, this is the problem in others thinking Christians are hypocrites. They say… you should not lie. Oh, but wait. We defend Rahab lying. Really? Are you serious? This is simply being double minded. The devil is the father of lies (John 8:44). ALL liars will have their part in the Lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Lying is sometimes okay? I don’t get that impression when reading the Bible.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Hebrews 6:18 BSB says,
“Thus by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie,…”
 

GEN2REV

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See, this is the problem in others thinking Christians are hypocrites. They say… you should not lie. Oh, but wait. We defend Rahab lying. Really? Are you serious? This is simply being double minded. The devil is the father of lies (John 8:44). ALL liars will have their part in the Lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Lying is sometimes okay? I don’t get that impression when reading the Bible.
And there it is.

We finally arrive at the whole underlying point of this thread.

To cast doubt on Christianity.

Some of us already knew it, but thanks for making it plain.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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And there it is.

We finally arrive at the whole underlying point of this thread.

To cast doubt on Christianity.

Some of us already knew it, but thanks for making it plain.

Nope. I am referring to make believe Christianity (that believes they can sin and still be saved), and not the real deal obviously.
Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that finds it.
Again, I am not saying that Rahab may not have lied. It certainly is a very distinct possibility. The problem is when Christians have voted “yes” in a poll that asks, did God commend Rahab for lying? This to me is wrong. Folks just do not seem to be shocked about Rahab’s lie or be upset with it (if indeed it was a lie). Therein lies the underlying problem among many Christians today.
 

GEN2REV

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Nope. I am referring to make believe Christianity (that believes they can sin and still be saved), and not the real deal obviously.
Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that finds it.
Again, I am not saying that Rahab may not have lied. It certainly is a very distinct possibility. The problem is when Christians have voted “yes” in a poll that asks, did God commend Rahab for lying? This to me is wrong. Folks just do not seem to be shocked about Rahab’s lie or be upset with it (if indeed it was a lie). Therein lies the underlying problem among many Christians today.
We are not upset with it because, in the context of the situation, it was done for a good and just cause and God clearly didn't hold it against her. On the contrary, He made His Power supernaturally avoid damaging her home; the very specific area of the wall of Jericho where she lived.

I'd say, for anybody with faith at least, that is proof positive that God condoned her actions and rewarded her handsomely.

It's the same for the many others in the Bible that did so for good reason.

And, contrary to your post that claims you are only speaking against fake Christians, you are actually calling Christians hypocrites. Which is not true and makes you stand in an odd position as a professed Christian.

How is it that YOU judge these people in Scripture while God does not? Doesn't that make you higher and mightier, possibly more holy, than God Almighty? At a minimum, more holy than the rest of us?
 
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