Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
"I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God"
One has to ignore many such passages to be sure that Jesus is God
One has to ignore many such passages to be sure that Jesus is God
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Jim B
Well-Known Member
It's sad that you don't understand the concept. Jesus is God and Jesus is God's son. If you can't understand that then don't brag about it.
Again, your English is sloppy.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Why are you parading your misunderstanding of Scripture? Try thinking for a little while!
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
This term "trinity" that was invented by the Catholic Church is no where to be seen in the Bible...
So much for solar scripture I guess...
So much for solar scripture I guess...
Jim B
Well-Known Member
This term "trinity" that was invented by the Catholic Church is no where to be seen in the Bible...
So much for solar scripture I guess...
I'm about done with this discussion, since you either can't or won't discuss things seriously.
a) Who cares if the term "trinity" isn't in the Bible? Everyone understands what it means -- except yourself apparently.
b) There is no such thing as "solar scripture"; it's sola scriptura.
Since I believe that your simply a troll I won't bother to discuss anything more with you.
No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude
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Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
Pride is in the people who are certain of themselves...
Like iv stated many times, I admit I could be wrong... I humble myself to Gods wisdom
Do you? Or are you certain of yourself as well?
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Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
"GOD WHY HAVE YOU ABANDONED ME"
If Jesus is also God then care to explain why God accuses himself of abandonment? I'm interested to see the mental gymnastics that gets applied to this one. LoL
If Jesus is also God then care to explain why God accuses himself of abandonment? I'm interested to see the mental gymnastics that gets applied to this one. LoL
Jesus didn't correct them ...and He never backed down from setting people straight.
No one here has said there is a trinity that doesn't include Jesus. You're twisting words. What is your motive in twisting words? Avoidance?
I'm not interested in an interaction with someone who refuses to communicate in an honest manner.
Sister, what's sad is that all of this will not do a thing for people who refuse to allow God to reveal Himself to their hearts. Like you said, it is spiritually discerned. Like Jesus said to Peter ....flesh and blood doesn't reveal His identity to the hearts of men, the Father does.
Bless you.
No my friend... again you failed to read my full post... I showed you Moses as GOD!!!
Exo 4:15 "You are to speak to him and put the words in his mouth; and I, even I, will be with your mouth and his mouth, and I will teach you what you are to do. (Just like Jesus) 16 "Moreover, he shall speak for you to the people; and he will be as a mouth for you and you will be as God to him.
Exo 7:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I make you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
Extra-biblical content.... Please! You don't even know your own Bible silly child! Where in all of the New Testament...did our GOD and Father ever say these words to Jesus... Yet... Jesus is the Christ... the second Adam (1Co 15:45) so much greater than Moses!
Please keep posting... I enjoy making you look... A Spiritual Infant still on the milk of the word...
The other...
Paul
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
No, I'm not ignoring any Scriptures.
No, I don't have to be infallible to be aware of Scripture to a high degree. There are verses that show Jesus speaking as a man and those that show Him speaking as God.
That's not a contradiction and I'm not ignoring either set. There's a reason He speaks both ways.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
See, that does it for me.
I don't need to read on beyond that. It's blatant hog wash.
You either have something worthwhile to say or you don't.
And you don't.
Remember Adam is also the son of God!!!
Luk 3:38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
NASB Luk 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"
Net bible Joh 1:34 I have both seen and testified that this man is the Chosen One of God."85
85 tc ‡ What did John the Baptist declare about Jesus on this occasion? Did he say, "This is the Son of God" (οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ, houto estin ho huio tou theou), or "This is the Chosen One of God" (οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ἐκλεκτὸς τοῦ θεοῦ, outo estin ho eklekto tou theou)? The majority of the witnesses, impressive because of their diversity in age and locales, read "This is the Son of God" (so Ì66,75 A B C L Θ Ψ 0233vid Ë1,13 33 1241 aur c f l g bo as well as the majority of Byzantine minuscules and many others). Most scholars take this to be sufficient evidence to regard the issue as settled without much of a need to reflect on internal evidence. On the other hand, one of the earliest MSS for this verse, Ì5 (3rd century), evidently read οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ἐκλεκτὸς τοῦ θεοῦ. (There is a gap in the MS at the point of the disputed words; it is too large for υἱός especially if written, as it surely would have been, as a nomen sacrum [uMs]. The term ἐκλεκτός was not a nomen sacrum and would have therefore taken up much more space [eklektos]. Given these two variants, there is hardly any question as to what Ì5 read.) This papyrus has many affinities with א*, which here also has ὁ ἐκλεκτός. In addition to their combined testimony Ì106vid b e ff2* sys,c also support this reading. Ì106 is particularly impressive, for it is a second third-century papyrus in support of ὁ ἐκλεκτός. A third reading combines these two: "the elect Son" (electus filius in ff2c sa and a [with slight variation]). Although the evidence for ἐκλεκτός is not as impressive as that for υἱός, the reading is found in early Alexandrian and Western witnesses. Turning to the internal evidence, "the Chosen One" clearly comes out ahead. "Son of God" is a favorite expression of the author (cf. Joh_1:49; Joh_3:18; Joh_5:25; Joh_10:36; Joh_11:4; Joh_11:27; Joh_19:7; Joh_20:31); further, there are several other references to "his Son," "the Son," etc. Scribes would be naturally motivated to change ἐκλεκτός to υἱός since the latter is both a Johannine expression and is, on the surface, richer theologically in Joh_1:34. On the other hand, there is not a sufficient reason for scribes to change υἱός to ἐκλεκτός. The term never occurs in John; even its verbal cognate (ἐκλέγω, eklegō) is never affirmed of Jesus in this Gospel. ἐκλεκτός clearly best explains the rise of υἱός. Further, the third reading ("Chosen Son of God") is patently a conflation of the other two. It has all the earmarks of adding υἱός to ἐκλεκτός. Thus, ὁ υἱός τοῦ θεοῦ is almost certainly a motivated reading. As R. E. Brown notes (John [AB], 1:57), "On the basis of theological tendency...it is difficult to imagine that Christian scribes would change 'the Son of God' to 'God's chosen one,' while a change in the opposite direction would be quite plausible. Harmonization with the Synoptic accounts of the baptism ('You are [This is] my beloved Son') would also explain the introduction of 'the Son of God' into John; the same phenomenon occurs in vi 69. Despite the weaker textual evidence, therefore, it seems best — with Lagrange, Barrett, Boismard, and others — to accept 'God's chosen one' as original."
"Son of ", "Chosen" ... does not matter... neither are God
Paul
It's Ok... I understand more than you think....
Mar 4:15 "These are the ones who are on the forums where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them."
Now.... what do we know about Satan and Jesus???
WAS JESUS REALLY TEMPTED?
Of course he was. We are all familiar with the temptation of Jesus, but have most of us noticed how the temptation of Jesus makes the trinity an absurd impossibility. Let’s take a look at it in depth.
Matthew 4:1
"Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil."
James 1:13
"For God cannot be tempted by evil."
First, we see that Jesus is led by the Spirit into the desert. The Doctrine of the Trinity says that the three persons of the trinity are equal. If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same being and are equal, why does Jesus have to be led into the desert? Does the Spirit know something that Jesus does not?
Secondly, we see the most obvious, Jesus is tempted, yet James clearly says that God cannot be tempted. So is James a liar, or are the man made creeds in error?
Mattew 4:5
"If you are the Son of God throw yourself down, For it is written: He will command His angels concerning you, and with their hands they will support you...Jesus answered him, Again it is written, You shall not put the Lord, your God to the test."
Notice that the devil calls him the Son of God not God. Satan knows God (read Job 1:6) yet he does not address Jesus as God but as the Son of God. Then Satan talks to Jesus about how God will save him if he jumps down. Jesus replies by saying, "You shall not put the Lord, your God to the test." Do you really believe that Jesus is referring to himself?
Matthew 4:8-11
"Then the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, and he said to him, All these I will give to you if you will prostrate yourself and worship me." At this Jesus said to him, "Get away Satan! It is written: The Lord, your God, shall you worship and Him alone shall you serve."
Why would the devil offer God things that are already His? Psalm 24:1 says:
"The earth is the LORD's and all it holds, the world and those who live there."
Even harder to believe is the idea that the devil really expected God to worship him so that he could give God what is His already. This is ridiculous. Then Jesus replies by saying, "The Lord, your God, shall you worship and Him alone shall you serve." Can you honestly read this and believe that Jesus is talking about himself?
The temptation episode is written to show us how Jesus put his faith in God in front of everything, especially the desires of the flesh (i.e. hunger, power). It shows us that it is possible to live a life in perfect accordance to God’s will. He is our role model. This is why he was made just like us. The Bible says that he was made like us in every way. Hebrews 2:17 says:
"For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God."
(above) Jesus is going to serve God? I thought he was God? Back to Hebrews, Jesus is made in every way like his brothers. Well, then either Jesus is not God but His anointed, or I am God also.
If Jesus is God, then this whole temptation episode is a farce. God cannot expect me to live up to Jesus' standards like the Bible says I should when I am not a Godman like Jesus. The whole purpose of this episode was for Jesus to set the standard, the example of faith and conduct for us to follow. If it takes being God to accomplish this then why even bother?
The creeds say that Jesus was tempted but cannot sin. If you cannot sin, are you really being tempted? The dual nature idea does not remedy the problem either because the Chalcedon Creed which is the one that says that Jesus is fully God and fully man also says that the dual natures are not separable, they are indivisible, united at all times. By the way, this idea of dual natures is called Dualism and it comes from Greek philosophy.
Dualism - The view that reality may be divided into two essential forces. There are two forms of this understanding. From a cosmic perspective, the world struggles between two opposing forces - typically, one of evil and one of good. From a philosophical approach, the essence of a person is divided between two incompatible natures - that of the body and that of the soul. Early Christianity incorporated both views from those religions and philosophies with which it came in contact. This is the same concept used not only in Greek philosophy, but also in Greek mythology. Hercules is the son of Zeus and the mortal Alcmene. He had a dual nature, he was a man that had supernatural strength which he had inherited from his father Zeus. The Pharaohs were godmen and so were the Caesars. The Bible even provides us with an example of this belief in Acts 14:11 when God healed a crippled man through Paul and Barnabas:
"When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they cried out in Lycaonian, "The gods have come down to us in human form."
This idea of gods coming in human form was very prevalent throughout the Roman-Greco world. This is why it was so natural for people educated in Greek philosophies to incorporate this idea into Christianity.
Please read the Bible without injecting meanings that were never intended by its author.
Paul
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
What in the world are you going on about?
Ya know, I'm still waiting for those verses that show Moses was divinely conceived and said to be given the throne of David, etc.
Did you skip that for a reason or ... just hadn't gotten to it yet with all the leg-long posts and whatnot?
I showed you Moses as God to Pharaoh.... So Show me Jesus as God to anyone!!! Silly child!
GEN2REV carefull... Satan is at your back.... Mar 4:15 "These are the ones who are on the forums where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them."
Greater Men have wanted to see far less greater things than I have given you.... Your getting very close to Mat 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
But I AM not worried... you don't have it in you to biblically tear anyone in to pieces! Your Like a Spiritual infant.... only cry's and ask for more milk! I'm all out of milk, and I don't do diapers!
Is this you in that picture???
Paul
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