The Catholic translation I quoted is fine. (I’m mildly surprised you rejected it.) Jesus, the Son of God, is the suffering servant whom Isaiah - another Jew / unitarian - prophesied about.
What is truth?
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The Catholic translation I quoted is fine. (I’m mildly surprised you rejected it.) Jesus, the Son of God, is the suffering servant whom Isaiah - another Jew / unitarian - prophesied about.
who says you can choose such a thing!
there is only one covenant one savior one king and we must accept the king and his kingdom
There is only one church Jn 10:16 only Jesus Christ has authority to found the church Matt 16:18-19 on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 18:18 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23 to teach and baptize all men Matt 28:19 without error Jn 16:13 all others are heretical sects the tradition of men
Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Paul was a servant of Jesus Christ who is God! Acts 9:16
Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
thy saints? Saint of Jesus Christ the most high God!
His angels? Only God has angels!
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Lk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior!
Jesus is God!
Jesus is Lord!
Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Why say God the father?
If only the father is God, why not say simply to the glory of the father or simply to the glory of God!
Oh cos there are more than one person in God!
God the Father!
God the Son!
God the Holy Spirit!
It sucks, just like most of your posts, LoL.
that’s what I like
Christian charity!
Dropship
Well-Known Member
Nope, Jesus never used the word Trinity, it's just a fairly harmless play on words cooked up by organised religion..:)
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Blah, blah, blah. More Romans Catholic propaganda.
Where in the Bible does it say, "Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith." Answer: nowhere!
This is the catholic faith: one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully. Total nonsense!
Sola scriptura!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Nothing like taking a spiritual axe to the Bible!
You quote separate verses from John, Matthew, Ephesians, Acts, Hebrews, 1 Timothy, Galatians, and 1 John. As I have written before, it created a very serious problem when the texts of the Bible were chopped up into chapters and verses by Stephen Langton, a Catholic, in the 12th century. This allows people like yourself to extract individual verses out of context to distort the meaning.
You can create any false, harmful doctrine using this extractive technique, anything from beating children with rods to claiming that teenage Mary is "forever virgin", to claiming that Peter (whom a: Jesus called "Satan" and b: denied Him three times and c: was chastised by Paul (in Galatians) for his hypocrisy), to claiming that Jesus had no brothers, to claiming that Mary is the queen of heaven, etc. etc.
You also write that there is only one church. Finally, you write the truth. The church is the body of Christ (not the Catholic "church", which is a denomination).
So says Jesus of Nazareth? Of course not. Charge dismissed.
Next case.
Jesus of Nazareth himself is a Jew. His God is only one person, the Father. Jesus is, by definition, a unitarian.
In the eyes of a Jew to accept the doctrine of the Trinity is worse than heresy.
If a person accepts the doctrine of the Trinity, what pronouncement will this Jew make when the trinitarian stands before him?
If you believe he’s fine with people following deities which he himself doesn’t, don’t worry about it.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
God's OFFER of Salvation is universal, but its not applied until a person has FAITH IN CHRIST.
That is when GOD, applies Salvation, that is offered to everyone.
Being SAVED, has a CONDITION.
You have to BELIEVE...
"the work of God, is that you BELIEVE ON JESUS< whom God sent".
If you dont believe, then the universal offer, is not applied to you, and you'll die and go to hell.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
God is the author of the organized hierarchical Christian religion
It’s called the new covenant!
Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Paul was a servant of Jesus Christ who is God! Acts 9:16
Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
thy saints? Saint of Jesus Christ the most high God!
His angels? Only God has angels!
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Lk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior!
Jesus is God!
Jesus is Lord!
Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Why say God the father?
If only the father is God, why not say simply to the glory of the father or simply to the glory of God!
Oh cos there are more than one person in God!
God the Father!
God the Son!
God the Holy Spirit!
Lk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Jn 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
John brought them to Jesus
Jesus is the Lord their God!
Lk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Jesus visited and redeemed the people, Jesus is the horn of salvation!
Jesus is eternal God!
Jesus is worshipped!
Only God may be worshipped!
Matthew 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
Matthew 8:2
And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Matthew 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Matthew 14:33
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 15:25
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
John 9:38
And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
2 cor 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Only God can be all knowing and therefore the just judge!
Final judgement by Jesus Christ the eternal God!
John 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Only God has this power!
the divinity of Christ and the holy trinity are “Christian doctrines” revealed by Christ to the church of the apostles; to deny them is to deny Christ and salvation!
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Trinity / Divinity
1 Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
The Didache
“After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).
Ignatius of Antioch
“[T]o the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).
“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).
Justin Martyr
“We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein” (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).
Theophilus of Antioch
“It is the attribute of God, of the most high and almighty and of the living God, not only to be everywhere, but also to see and hear all; for he can in no way be contained in a place. . . . The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, his Word, and his Wisdom” (To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181]).
Irenaeus
“For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit” (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
Tertullian
“We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made. . . . We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit” (Against Praxeas 2 [A.D. 216]).
“And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for the unity is distributed in a Trinity. Placed in order, the three are the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (ibid.).
“Keep always in mind the rule of faith which I profess and by which I bear witness that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are inseparable from each other, and then you will understand what is meant by it. Observe now that I say the Father is other [distinct], the Son is other, and the Spirit is other. This statement is wrongly understood by every uneducated or perversely disposed individual, as if it meant diversity and implied by that diversity a separation of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” (ibid., 9).
“Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, who are yet distinct one from another. These three are, one essence, not one person, as it is said, ‘I and my Father are one’ [John 10:30], in respect of unity of being not singularity of number” (ibid., 25).
Origen
“For we do not hold that which the heretics imagine: that some part of the being of God was converted into the Son, or that the Son was procreated by the Father from non-existent substances, that is, from a being outside himself, so that there was a time when he [the Son] did not exist” (The Fundamental Doctrines 4:4:1 [A.D. 225]).
“For it is the Trinity alone which exceeds every sense in which not only temporal but even eternal may be understood. It is all other things, indeed, which are outside the Trinity, which are to be measured by time and ages” (ibid.).
Hippolytus
“The Word alone of this God is from God himself, wherefore also the Word is God, being the being of God” (Refutation of All Heresies 10:29 [A.D. 228]).
Pope Dionysius
“Next, then, I may properly turn to those who divide and cut apart and destroy the most sacred proclamation of the Church of God, making of it [the Trinity], as it were, three powers, distinct substances, and three godheads. . . . [Some heretics] proclaim that there are in some way three gods, when they divide the sacred unity into three substances foreign to each other and completely separate” (Letter to Dionysius of Alexandria 1 [A.D. 262]).
“Therefore, the divine Trinity must be gathered up and brought together in one, a summit, as it were, I mean the omnipotent God of the universe. . . . It is blasphemy, then, and not a common one but the worst, to say that the Son is in any way a handiwork [creature]. . . . But if the Son came into being [was created], there was a time when these attributes did not exist; and, consequently, there was a time when God was without them, which is utterly absurd” (ibid., 1–2).
“Neither, then, may we divide into three godheads the wonderful and divine unity. . . . Rather, we must believe in God, the Father Almighty; and in Christ Jesus, his Son; and in the Holy Spirit; and that the Word is united to the God of the universe. ‘For,’ he says, ‘The Father and I are one,’ and ‘I am in the Father, and the Father in me’” (ibid., 3).
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