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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Actually I think there's a great deal of truth in that. He cannot attack Jesus personally, but He knows he can hurt Him through His church. "Why dost thou persecute Me' He said to Paul. Jesus identified Himself with His people. You hurt them, you hurt Him.
At the end of the 1000 years there is the second resurrection. Gog and Magog... All the wicked from all ages of human history are gathered together around the New Jerusalem that was just prior, descended to the earth having within is walls Jesus and His church. Gathered around Satan is a vast army, including experts in warfare and military campaigns over centuries which Satan hopes will help him to overcome the city and finally allow him to take the throne he has coveted since before creation. His ego and insane vanity doesn't allow him to entertain the possibility of failure. He will of course fail... Dismally and eternally.
The purpose of evil is to show, that we, the people of the earth, have turned away from God and have begun to act like God, just as Satan tried to get Adam and Eve to do when they ate the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden to become God like.
God allowed Satan to Sift Peter a trial that Jesus prayed for Peter to recover from. God used Satan to prepare Peter for what was to be expected of him.
God said " it is not Good that the man is alone," in Paradise.
Before sin when a human perfection lacks the environment that it requires to grow the environment that was good becomes evil. It wasn't something Adam knew until God revealed it. When He did He commanded Adam to do the things that would prepare him to be lifted up to a higher perfection. Adam had to learn that there was no solution for his loneliness to be found. By this he knew he was helpless to realize his humanity without God. Also God prepared him to respond to the miracle cure like this;
Gen 2
Then the man said,
“This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one shall be called Woman,
for out of Man this one was taken.”
God said " it is not Good that the man is alone," in Paradise.
Before sin when a human perfection lacks the environment that it requires to grow the environment that was good becomes evil. It wasn't something Adam knew until God revealed it. When He did He commanded Adam to do the things that would prepare him to be lifted up to a higher perfection. Adam had to learn that there was no solution for his loneliness to be found. By this he knew he was helpless to realize his humanity without God. Also God prepared him to respond to the miracle cure like this;
Gen 2
Then the man said,
“This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one shall be called Woman,
for out of Man this one was taken.”
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
I actually see all of life as a purification/sanctification process.
You take raw metals/stones, you add ingredients, chemicals, and you mix or let them set to separate out the imperfections. You add heat, hardship and you glean the dross, or the impurities, and what you have left is the most pure remnant.
Satan and his advocates (demons and people/tares) are like the other rocks and sediment in a river bed that work against the smoothest pebbles and stones to break and wear away the disproportionate edges and extremities to make them glass smooth and beautiful. The stress and pain they cause are like the heat and pressure that a diamond undergoes in its process of being perfected.
In the end, what God keeps are all those who endure all of the pain, sorrow and difficulty and come out the other side with only the purest faith and a broken and humbled (pride-less) spirit.
Precious stones in God's eyes.
This part of your post is just nonsense.
There is no Millennium that takes place after Christ's return. He just gathers His precious stones and metals and scraps the whole melting pot and goes home.
A job well done; all in a day's work. ;)
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Don't you think the better question is, why is there evil? If you understand how evil came into existence you would understand that it was never God's will or purpose that this wicked world we live in to exist, it was never his purpose for us to live in this wicked world. So God never had a purpose for evil, it was never his will or plan for evil to exist, so how would there be a purpose for evil.
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Evil is designed to (1) steal, (2) kill and (3) destroy. Very simple, very basic, and very devilish. Jesus told us that this is Satan's agenda.
Since Satan knows that he is already condemned to eternal torment in the Lake of Fire (Hell), he wants to do as much damage to humanity and to Christians as he possibly can (remember what he did to Job). So he works through evildoers who are influenced by demons ( and even possessed by demons). It is more than likely that all the tyrants of the world were worshiping Satan.
Right now Satan is working through a cabal of Satan-worshipers in order to enslave all of humanity. The World Economic Forum (WEF), the United Nations Organization (UNO), the World Health Organization (WHO), and the European Union (EU) are all working together under the leadership of Satan to bring the whole world into demonic captivity. They are destroying (a) freedoms, (b) nations, (c) borders, (d) food supplies, (e) oil and gas supplies and (f) human health, all at the same time. The war in Ukraine is just the tip of the iceberg.
Also, Satan is working through demon-possessed individuals to commit murder, rape, arson, robberies, treason, sedition, and all other evil deeds which are being reported by the media daily. Not a day goes by that something evil is not reported.
Now why does God allow all this evil and mischief? It is basically to separate the wheat from the chaff. Just as Noah and his family were the only righteous people on an earth filled with violence and wickedness, we are back in the days of Noah. Therefore when divine wrath and judgments fall on this world, they will fall on the evildoers.
At the same time the Gospel offers grace and salvation to all who will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. And the Gospel is now freely accessible by all on the internet, through the Bible itself. But the majority will not repent and believe.
There are some here who refuse to believe that Jesus is God. That is unbelief, and there is no salvation for those who reject Christ as God. Jesus Himself said that if you believe not that He is "I AM" (God) you will die in your sins.
Taken
Well-Known Member
What for? Effect a Rejection of God.
What? Control.
Why? I don’t think it is about satan’s Hate of people, but moreso about his own preconceived notion he is entitle to supreme power and authority.
In essence yes. Human men in Standing with God, ARE Gods inheritance.
During the 1,000 yr of Jesus IN His Kingdom...outside of the Kingdom will be mortals establishing, areas, cities, boundaries, Nations.
At first, the Nations Leaders will yearly Pilgrimage to Jesus’ Kingdom, and rule their Nation according to Gods Word.
Jesus, foretold; (King of kings, Lord of lords)
As Nations and Leaders increase in Wealth, goods, Leaders will die, be replaced, and new Leaders begin falling off from ruling their Nations according to Gods Word.
(A lesson of sorts, even VOID of satan’s Influence, men place a higher regard for Wealth, Objects, rather than God.)
* Here ^ men simply begin Ignoring God.
When Satan is loosed, he does Again begins influencing the Nations to come AGAINST God and Jesus’ Kingdom.
* Here ^ men go from Ignoring God, to Attacking Jesus’ Kingdom.
Spiritual Battle.
Mortal men Killed.
Who is Saved? God is Just, again I would speculate, Individuals who Believe, are With God, those who do Not Believe, are Without God.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
What is the purpose of evil?
I thought about this a lot in 2020. Reading the CEV translation of Psalm 82 really opened my eyes. Ps 82 goes back to Original Sin and the fall of Lucifer. The purpose of evil is to displace God.
I could not get Ps 82:1 out of my mind for months!
One must understand that there are other gods that Scripture recognizes. They are false gods and include humans. As it pertains to humans, gods are those who make and judge the law. On a human scale this is necessary. On a theological level, this is THE sin of mankind and Lucifer and is rooted in pride.
I thought about this a lot in 2020. Reading the CEV translation of Psalm 82 really opened my eyes. Ps 82 goes back to Original Sin and the fall of Lucifer. The purpose of evil is to displace God.
I could not get Ps 82:1 out of my mind for months!
When all the other gods
have come together,
the LORD God judges them
have come together,
the LORD God judges them
One must understand that there are other gods that Scripture recognizes. They are false gods and include humans. As it pertains to humans, gods are those who make and judge the law. On a human scale this is necessary. On a theological level, this is THE sin of mankind and Lucifer and is rooted in pride.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I would ask, why does God need to go through another 1000 years of heartache and rebellion... Isn't the current controversy enough to secure a people for Himself? Doesn't He already rule His kingdom, and this already dealing with rebellion, and had prophetically informed and warned the world of impending destruction to the kings of the earth and their followers who commit fornication with the harlot?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
That was the topic of today's sermon. :)
1st, God has no needs.
The reason for the delay in the 2nd Coming is found in 2 Peter 3:8-13. God wants all to be saved and is patient, perhaps waiting on us to reach out to the last sheep of the harvest.
I think this is closest to the truth.
I don't believe evil is something to be understood. It wouldn't be a mystery otherwise. Jesus would have explained it's purpose. But why dignify evil as a good with purpose? Not.
Evil isn't meant to be understood or be a problem seeking a solution. As God explained to Cain, evil is something to be overcome.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
You may believe evil to be a mystery, I do not. Evil came into existence because an angel rebelled against the rulership of the True God because he wanted the worship that belonged to the True God. This angel became the Satan and the Devil. He called the true God a liar said the True God was an unjust ruler. He said the True God didn't rule in the best interests of mankind but was keeping something from mankind that was in their best interests to have. He convinced Eve that what he was saying was true and she convinced Adam to join her. So since Adam and Eve represents mankind when they disobeyed the True God they joined the rebellion that angel (Satan& Devil) started. That's how evil came into creation.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
The problem of Theodicy bothers me more as I get older (but no wiser). Yet I believe that God is sovereign over everything (including Evil), and that Satan is one of God's creations and subject to God's sovereign authority, so Evil does have a part in God's overall plan. For whatever reason, for whatever it is that God plans for us to become, it is necessary for us to experientially know both Good and Evil.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Now, if you want to take Beza's Supralapsarian position, God chose to save the Elect before the foundation of the world, so He needed something from which to save the Elect. Hence, Sin and the Fall of Man became necessary. Thus explaining the purpose of Evil. But that makes God the Author of Sin, against which the Dutch Remonstrants properly objected.
From what I've read of the Westminster Confession of Faith, the authors of that document take the Infralapsarian position that God, foreseeing and permissively allowing the Fall, then elected to save some. (Conveniently avoiding charging God with being the Author of Sin.) @Lifelong_sinner, you know the WCoF far more thoroughly than I do, so you may correct me if I'm wrong. That still explains the purpose of Evil (whether actively decreed or permissively) as necessary to have something to save the Elect from.
Another possible purpose of Evil may be to contrast it with God's Goodness, thus glorifying God.
From what I've read of the Westminster Confession of Faith, the authors of that document take the Infralapsarian position that God, foreseeing and permissively allowing the Fall, then elected to save some. (Conveniently avoiding charging God with being the Author of Sin.) @Lifelong_sinner, you know the WCoF far more thoroughly than I do, so you may correct me if I'm wrong. That still explains the purpose of Evil (whether actively decreed or permissively) as necessary to have something to save the Elect from.
Another possible purpose of Evil may be to contrast it with God's Goodness, thus glorifying God.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The delay is because the church is asleep. The 10 virgins were all asleep but good wants to save all ten, not just 5. And yes, there's a harvest and no laborers.
Are you, can't remember the moniker for the group, who believe the 2nd coming is at the end of the 1000 years... Or beginning?
But God does have a purpose, and that is to vindicate His character before the universe. The rebellion that Lucifer started incorporated charges and slander against God's good name. That character is not yet settled among those who don't believe. It's why they don't believe. Settling the true character of God is what they last 6000 years has been about, and it is us who vindicate that character through being recreated in His image. We glorify Him by receiving His righteousness.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Contrast--it's contrast. God has formed the light and created darkness and evil to destroy evil by contrast.I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
But created beings living in a created world suffering created anguish--is just that. This is not life as it were, not really, nor has any real blood of God whom is spirit actually been spilled. To God this is anime--even a bad cartoon. But when we awaken from it, the actual reality that has only been like a dream will be what is actually real, and the pain will fade like the pain of childbirth--for He works all things together for good for those who love Him according to His purpose.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Nonetheless, praise His name.
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Ok let's look at Evil.
Evil =that which lacks good.
Evil has no substance of it's own because Evil is a lacking.
Evil is a person and his will was to deny purpose as God had created for him. Satan's place in heaven was the loftiest, his attributes, power and beauty were unmatched. Adorned with every angelic gift his very being was to reveal the light of God. That , as elevated as it was, didn't prevent Lucifer from rejecting the purpose of God. Lucifer rejected service of any sort because he rejected service to God. Satan's place in heaven was great. So great was Satan that only God was greater. He could replace God because he is most like God. To this day that deep subtle lie dwells in us. The pattern of evil persists in the forbidden fruit. Eve bit and believed Satan's imitation that replaced God in the sanctuary. Like Satan like Eve. She put Satan in God's place and put herself in Adam's. She was tricked unable to distinguish the source of life from the power of death. "You certainly will not die" She heard from the one with the power of death. She could feel the power as the deceiver tends to make it felt. Beguiled by the imitator and delighted in the forbidden pleasures of her new found God. She acted as prophet of her god and in that office voiced the word to her husband and he ate. The virgin become adulterous wife mounted the beast for the first time. Adam listened to her voice and made the rout of God complete. The Woman began her reign. And because of her death entered the world. Because of her husband death would be passed to all the living. She is the Mother of harlots. She says;
Isaiah 47:8
King James Version
8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children.
I may add later if anyone would like.
Evil =that which lacks good.
Evil has no substance of it's own because Evil is a lacking.
Evil is a person and his will was to deny purpose as God had created for him. Satan's place in heaven was the loftiest, his attributes, power and beauty were unmatched. Adorned with every angelic gift his very being was to reveal the light of God. That , as elevated as it was, didn't prevent Lucifer from rejecting the purpose of God. Lucifer rejected service of any sort because he rejected service to God. Satan's place in heaven was great. So great was Satan that only God was greater. He could replace God because he is most like God. To this day that deep subtle lie dwells in us. The pattern of evil persists in the forbidden fruit. Eve bit and believed Satan's imitation that replaced God in the sanctuary. Like Satan like Eve. She put Satan in God's place and put herself in Adam's. She was tricked unable to distinguish the source of life from the power of death. "You certainly will not die" She heard from the one with the power of death. She could feel the power as the deceiver tends to make it felt. Beguiled by the imitator and delighted in the forbidden pleasures of her new found God. She acted as prophet of her god and in that office voiced the word to her husband and he ate. The virgin become adulterous wife mounted the beast for the first time. Adam listened to her voice and made the rout of God complete. The Woman began her reign. And because of her death entered the world. Because of her husband death would be passed to all the living. She is the Mother of harlots. She says;
Isaiah 47:8
King James Version
8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children.
I may add later if anyone would like.
Taken
Well-Known Member
God IS Just.
Gods Earthly man-KIND creations, Always have given them From God;
* Knowledge of WHO God IS;
* What is Gods Intent;
* What is Gods Will, (Desire, Pleasure)
* A TASTE of What a man experiences, WHEN a man IS “WITH” God.
* A TASTE of What a man experiences, WHEN God IS “WITH” a man.
* A TASTE of What a man experiences, WHEN a man IS “WITHOUT” God.
* A TASTE of What a man experiences, WHEN God IS “WITHOUT” a man.
Lucifer, son of the morning, was Created BY God and was WITH God, WITH holy status, WITH a heavenly estate, AND BY Lucifers OWN Freewill, Chose to DEFY, REJECT, God, and thereafter, LOST his holy status, his Brightness, his heavenly estate, his being WITH God, and his NAME...
and WAS Cast Down, to a different estate, with a new NAME;
Satan, Devil, Serpent, a new Description, a new Title.
Satan, has reeked havoc, by, through, of his Lies, Trickery, Deceit, on Gods human mankind creations, since the beginning of mankind, by, through, of Satan and Mankind, SHARING the SAME ESTATE;
ie. EARTH.
The 1,000 year period “WITH” Jesus’ Presence “ON Earth” (via Jesus’ Kingdom ON Earth), “WITHOUT” the presence of “SATAN on EARTH”... IS mankind’s LAST OPPORTUNITY to exercise their OWN Freewill, TO CHOOSE to “submit” to Jesus, BE their high KING of kings, Jesus BE their high LORD of lords.......OR NOT.
The old EXCUSE, (that the woman, used IN the Garden) of “the Devil tricked me, the Devil influence me, the Devil made me do it”....
IS MOOT.
In other words. The 1,000 year reign of the KING of kings, LORD of lords, IS NOT about God’s Suffering, but rather about, bringing His Division to an End, and Thus Ending His Division via His foretold;
Separation, of those WITH Him and those WITHOUT Him.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The only real necessity I see for man is to overcome evil... Not experience it.
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