The Insanity of the "right" to have guns!

[amigo de christo]

What so you have more to twist? I guess you have not read this thread. Your likes show how many people agree with you.

 

[Grailhunter]

As I suspected. You don’t really have case to make and you are just mindlessly throwing around an ad hominem.
I believe many do this because they don’t really have any real argument to defend their position with Scripture involving the OP topic.



Truth is not based upon some kind of approval rating by others.

In any event, may the Lord’s good ways shine upon you (even if we disagree).

You are simply not worth it because people know what you do, what you are. I am not a fundamentalist, that is no secret. But your campaign to defamate my character and label me shows that you have a very vindictive character and not a person that tells the truth.

 

[reformed1689]

as it usually means killing some animal!

You realize it is ok to kill animals right?

 

[Triumph1300]

Yes, this country had to go to war so that we can enjoy the freedoms we have. But again, GOD was the One who placed that power in them.

Oh, ok, so you changed your mind now.
Now you think it's ok to resort to violence for protection.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

You realize it is ok to kill animals right?

yes, for food as the Bible says, but not for "sport"!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are simply not worth it because people know what you do, what you are. I am not a fundamentalist, that is no secret. But your campaign to defamate my character and label me shows that you have a very vindictive character and not a person that tells the truth.

There is a difference between being vindictive vs. warning God’s people of false beliefs of others.

The two are not the same thing.

The thing is that Christians agree that the Bible is the sole guide for all matters of faith and practice. You don’t believe that and so I am protecting the flock by telling them what you believe. You attempted to elicit an emotional response by posting a picture of 9/11 that would sway people to your way of thinking. I showed them the truth about what you really believe so that fundamental Christians will not take your claim so seriously (or they might rethink what they believe). If you are not ashamed of your beliefs (of which I believe is classified as liberal according to Christianity and educational sources), and you feel that they won’t change people’s opinions, then by all means put your beliefs that I mentioned in a “Statement of Faith” in your signature (for all to see). Then I can tell people to just read your “statement of faith” in your signature whenever you reply to me with something that is anti-biblical.

For example: If a person claimed to be Christian and yet they held to the belief that they can promote porn, I would warn other Christians against this person’s false belief because they are not in agreement with basic morality tied to being a Christian. If they decided to speak on another point with Christians on something that was anti-biblical, it does not mean I am being vindictive just because I am warning other believers against their false belief. I merely would be protecting the flock.

Anyways, getting back on topic to the OP: What proof do you have in the New Testament Scriptures that prove that you can use self defense via by using violence? Make your case using the New Testament.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Oh, ok, so you changed your mind now.
Now you think it's ok to resort to violence for protection.

No, my friend. Violence is defined as using physical force to hurt, damage, or kill.
I am saying that the use of physical force or resistance to an attack should be done in a way that does not kill, hurt, or damage anyone (physically).

 

[reformed1689]

yes, for food as the Bible says, but not for "sport"!

I agree, I do not believe in just killing animals for sport. I think that is heinous destruction of God's creation. NOW, that being said, I do believe you can do it for sport AS LONG AS you also utilize the remains of the animal for other purposes such as clothing and food.

 

[Grailhunter]

There is a difference between being vindictive vs. warning God’s people of false beliefs of others.

The two are not the same thing.

The thing is that Christians agree that the Bible is the sole guide for all matters of faith and practice. You don’t believe that and so I am protecting the flock by telling them what you believe. You attempted to elicit an emotional response by posting a picture of 9/11 that would sway people to your way of thinking. I showed them the truth about what you really believe so that fundamental Christians will not take your claim so seriously (or they might rethink what they believe). If you are not ashamed of your beliefs (of which I believe is classified as liberal according to Christianity and educational sources), and you feel that they won’t change people’s opinions, then by all means put your beliefs that I mentioned in a “Statement of Faith” in your signature (for all to see). Then I can tell people to just read your “statement of faith” in your signature whenever you reply to me with something that is anti-biblical.

For example: If a person claimed to be Christian and yet they held to the belief that they can promote porn, I would warn other Christians against this person’s false belief because they are not in agreement with basic morality tied to being a Christian. If they decided to speak on another point with Christians on something that was anti-biblical, it does not mean I am being vindictive just because I am warning other believers against their false belief.

Anyways, getting back on topic to the OP: What proof do you have in the New Testament Scriptures that prove that you can use self defense via by using violence? Make your case using the New Testament.

No you are being very vindictive.
The only way to believe is what you believe and you are messed up.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No you are being very vindictive.
The only way to believe is what you believe and you are messed up.

Well, that’s the way you want to see it, then by all means. You can see it that way, but I don’t agree with you.
I don’t make it habit to speak out against another believer’s false beliefs unless they believe something that is so radically against the core of what Christianity is about. You are not a fundamental Christian, and other Christians here are. So for me to tell them you don’t hold to core fundamental beliefs in Christianity, this should not upset you because you said you are not a fundamental Christian. I know that you don’t agree with the label of liberal. But this is not my definition I have invented for you. This is based upon Christianity, and educational sources. I only mention these things so as to protect the flock against your other anti-biblical ideas. It’s in no way personal. I don’t know you from Adam. It’s your beliefs I find to be highly unacceptable (for one who claims to be Christian).

If you don’t agree, we can agree to disagree in love and respect and move on.

May God’s good ways be upon you (even if we disagree on what the Bible says).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree, I do not believe in just killing animals for sport. I think that is heinous destruction of God's creation. NOW, that being said, I do believe you can do it for sport AS LONG AS you also utilize the remains of the animal for other purposes such as clothing and food.

I agree.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, that’s the way you want to see it, then by all means. You can see it that way, but I don’t agree with you.
I don’t make it habit to speak out against another believer’s false beliefs unless they believe something that is so radically against the core of what Christianity is about. You are not a fundamental Christian, and other Christians here are. So for me to tell them you are not fundamental (or you don’t hold to core fundamental beliefs in Christianity), this should not upset you because you said you are not a fundamental Christian. I know that you don’t agree with the label of liberal. But this is not my definition I have invented for you. This is based upon Christianity, and educational sources. I only mention these things so as to protect the flock against your other anti-biblical ideas.

You see here again you twist the truth. It is in your core nature. I did not say that the Bible is not the foundation of Christians beliefs.

30,000 Protestant denominations and millions of people interpret the scriptures...and you believe your way is the only to interpret them...that is completely delusional. I am all for a confrontation but the rules of the forum prevent me from saying the truth about you.... but is is all bad.

 

[Wrangler]

I agree, I do not believe in just killing animals for sport.

I never understood hunting until I moved to Michigan. And just this week, I was reminded of the ongoing value to society of hunters.

As I got off the highway, a deer ran onto the off-ramp, saw me out of its periphial vision and stopped - right in my way.

Fortunately, he ran off in the nick of time. My heart was racing as I do not want to kill a deer with my car. If I hit the deer, property damge would have been significant.

The animals are going to die anyway. At least with hunters, killing for sport, there is no property damage and human injury or death.

Still, none of this is about the 2A, which is there as a last resort to stop tyranny.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I agree, I do not believe in just killing animals for sport. I think that is heinous destruction of God's creation. NOW, that being said, I do believe you can do it for sport AS LONG AS you also utilize the remains of the animal for other purposes such as clothing and food.

Dude we might be agreeing here! :cool:

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You see here again you twist the truth. It is in your core nature. I did not say that the Bible is not the foundation of Christians beliefs.

Nope.

I said, I quote:

“The thing is that Christians agree that the Bible is the sole guide for all matters of faith and practice. You don’t believe that.” (Citation source).​

You said, I quote:

“your God is a book.” (Citation source).
“there no such thing as "The Bible"” (Citation source).
“I am saying that people can be saved without the Bible” (Citation source).​

These above quotes by you do not sound like the Bible is your sole guide for all maters of faith and practice.

30,000 Protestant denominations and millions of people interpret the scriptures...and you believe your way is the only to interpret them...that is completely delusional. I am all for a confrontation but the rules of the forum prevent me from saying the truth about you.... but is is all bad.

So you don’t believe in any absolute truth that anyone can be right?
You basically said you fellowshipped with tons of different denominations and you did not seem to have problem in doing that.
This means you are not able to discern the difference wrong beliefs among the different Christian branches or denominations.
For example: Catholicism is wrong because they bow down to idol statues and they pray to other gods (like the saints, etcetera). Do you not see a problem in this? Would you fellowship with Catholics again?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I never understood hunting until I moved to Michigan. And just this week, I was reminded of the ongoing value to society of hunters.

As I got off the highway, a deer ran onto the off-ramp, saw me out of its periphial vision and stopped - right in my way.

Fortunately, he ran off in the nick of time. My heart was racing as I do not want to kill a deer with my car. If I hit the deer, property damge would have been significant.

The animals are going to die anyway. At least with hunters, killing for sport, there is no property damage and human injury or death.

Still, none of this is about the 2A, which is there as a last resort to stop tyranny.

When I was teenager: When I was driving up a hill in the winding roads of a state park, I almost hit a deer with my Pontiac Fiero. The deer would have went through my windshield if I did not react fast enough. I also ran over a ripped up deer carcass with my Fiero on the highway at night, and my Fiero skipped over it but it left it’s fleshy meat under the underbelly of my car.

Back when I lived in the state I grew up in: There was this baby deer that was living in my back yard once for about two weeks. It's mother would come by and feed it and then leave. However, it would make noises to it's mother at night, which would sometimes make it hard for me to sleep. So the one day, I was presented with an opportunity to get rid of this baby deer safely. So I decided to put on my black rubber work gloves and go outside in order to grab him gently and throw him over the chain link fence back into the forest where it's mother was at.

So I walked really slow and got really close to him; And just when I was about to grab him, he quickly bolted to the front of the house. This scared me a little, because I did not want the little guy getting hit by any cars in the front of the house, seeing I live on a busy street. However, when I got to the front of the house, he did not go near the traffic of the road, which was good. So he started to move back towards the back yard again. However, this time he went into the neighbor's back yard. This was perfect because they had a gate to their back yard so I could close it behind me, ensuring my capture of the little guy.

So I pinned him behind some stacked up wood behind the neighbor's shed and I grabbed him. He was kicking and screaming as I held him in my hands; And then I threw him over the chain link fence back into the forest. He landed safely on the other side of the fence; And later, I eventually seen him reunite with his mother (Which put me at ease).

However, afterwards I kept thinking to myself of how scared this baby deer was when I was holding it in my hands. I mean, it had no idea what I was going to do it. It probably thought I was trying to either eat it or hurt it in some way. In fact, I could actually feel the fear dripping off of this poor little guy.

Anyways, later that evening, when I was watching a video on "YouTube" by a certain Pastor, as per my usual routine thru out the week (back then), he told me about the following passages ...

Isaiah 13:11a - "And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity ..."

Isaiah 13:13 - "Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger."

Isaiah 13:14 - "And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land."

So I asked myself, "What is a roe"?
So I looked it up on the internet and low and behold, a roe is a baby deer! Here I was just a few hours earlier chasing a baby deer and I could feel it's fear in the fact that I was chasing it. This was a passage that God wanted to show me. He wanted to show me that the world will one day run in fear as the chased roe when God (i.e. Jesus Christ) will return to end all evil and iniquity. It was powerful!

Coincidence one might say?

Well, there were more of these kinds of things that took place in my life after I received Jesus Christ as my Savior.

 

[Jim B]

Not only did Jesus tell Peter to put away his sword, but he reattached the ear and healed the man on the spot.

Luke 22:49-51, "When those who were around him saw what was about to happen, they said, “Lord, should we use our swords?” Then one of them [Peter] struck the high priest’s slave, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus said, “Enough of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him."

 

[Grailhunter]

“The thing is that Christians agree that the Bible is the sole guide for all matters of faith and practice. You don’t believe that.”

Well see you are wrong, I mean how wrong can you be! Bible the sole guide! If it was a traffic manual it would not be safe to drive on the roads.
Not all Christians believe in slavery.
Not all Christians believe that men rule over women.
Not all Christians believe that polygamy is wrong.
Not all Christians believe the world is flat.
Not all Christians believe that wedding ceremonies are not necessary.
Not all Christians are pacifists.
Not all Christians believe that the bread and wine ritual is necessary.
There are Christians that do not even believe that Baptism is necessary for salvation.
There are Christians that are not real fond of Paul.
There are Christians that do not believe that God the Father is the creator God.
There are Christians that believe that morality is not important....you believe in Christ and you can do whatever you want....once saved always saved....heaven full of evil.
There are Christians that do not believe that Good Deeds are important or not necessary.
There are Christians that believe you have to speak in tongues to be saved....tongues being the event of receiving the Holy Spirit.
There are Christians that believe that God denied mankind free-will.

They may go to the Bible to come up with their beliefs but they do not agree.

 

[reformed1689]

Dude we might be agreeing here! :cool:

I'm sure there is much more that you and I do agree on than what we disagree on my friend. Even if we do get heated sometimes ;)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well see you are wrong, I mean how wrong can you be! Bible the sole guide! If it was a traffic manual it would not be safe to drive on the roads.

At the end of the day, it is the words of Jesus that will judge us if we do not receive them.

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” (John 12:48).

Jesus spoke everything that God the Father told Him to say.

John 12:49
“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.”

So the words of Jesus are God the Father’s words. If we don’t receive the words of Jesus (or the words of God) found in Scripture, those words will judge us on the last day.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (2 Timothy 3:16).
The Bible is the inspired words of God.

So logic dictates that God is going to hold us accountable to us knowing a particular one set meaning of what those words actually mean in the Bible.

So how can God guide us to know the truth in His Word?

John 16:13
“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.”

It is by having the Holy Spirit (Also see 1 John 2:27).
How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

Acts of the Apostles 5:32
“And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”

In the fact, that we obey God.

We are living in the end times apostasy or the falling away (2 Timothy 3:1-9).
Many in the churches today are justifying some sort of sin or a wrong belief that attacks God (described in the Bible). So they don’t all have the Spirit to discern the truth or be guided by the truth.

I know. I know. I said that the Bible is the sole guide for all matters of faith and practice. This is true.
But see… the Bible teaches us that we are to be cleansed by the washing of the water of the Word (Ephesians 5:26-27).
We are born again by the Word (1 Peter 1:23), which is the same milk of the Word we are to grow thereby (1 Peter 2:2).
Jesus said His words are spirit, and they are life (John 6:63).
In other words, you cannot separate God from the Bible.
They are forever linked together.
Jeremiah 23:29 says, “Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?”

Like in the Parable of the Sower: The words of God have to be received into the heart of a person in order for them to believe them, and for them to be changed by them.

Not all Christians believe in slavery.
Not all Christians believe that men rule over women.
Not all Christians believe that polygamy is wrong.
Not all Christians believe the world is flat.
Not all Christians believe that wedding ceremonies are not necessary.
Not all Christians are pacifists.
Not all Christians believe that the bread and wine ritual is necessary.
There are Christians that do not even believe that Baptism is necessary for salvation.
There are Christians that are not real fond of Paul.
There are Christians that do not believe that God the Father is the creator God.
There are Christians that believe that morality is not important....you believe in Christ and you can do whatever you want....once saved always saved....heaven full of evil.
There are Christians that do not believe that Good Deeds are important or not necessary.
There are Christians that believe you have to speak in tongues to be saved....tongues being the event of receiving the Holy Spirit.
There are Christians that believe that God denied mankind free-will.

They may go to the Bible to come up with their beliefs but they do not agree.

The early Christians (the apostles) were the ground and pillar of truth because they wrote Scripture, but Christians today are not the standard of truth (because there is no more Scripture to write). God and the Bible are the two things (linked together) of which can open a person’s eyes to the truth on any particular topic taught in His Word. Like I said, God is going to judge men on whether they received the words of God or not. This is why we are to study to show ourselves approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed (2 Timothy 2:15).

I prefer the term, “Bible Alone + the Anointing to Understand It” and not “Sola Scriptura.”
We all need to be born again by not only the Spirit, but we need to be born again by water, too. The water is the Word of God. We need to receive the revelation from God that His Word alone (and not visions, dreams, etc.) is sufficient along with the working of God helping us to understand it. When we seek forgiveness of our past life of sins with Jesus and we make His Word the one and only authority for our life (along with the working of the Spirit), God will transform our heart, and minds to see the truth of His Word. Even then… learning the truth of His Word with the Spirit is a process that takes constant study, and prayer.