Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Ronald Nolette]

I knew what you meant. Just poking you so you will always remember...... :)

I know my spelling can really suck! I also know that is spell check doesn't highlight something, I will post lots of close but slightly incorrect words.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I know my spelling can really suck! I also know that is spell check doesn't highlight something, I will post lots of close but slightly incorrect words.

Me too. See. We are more alike than you think... ;)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Me too. See. We are more alike than you think... ;)

We both trust Jesus to get us HOME! that makes us family. So these discussions here are brothers arguing arounds the banquet table- I do it in love though I can come off in writing as coarse and surly!

 

[Johann]

Well how can you tell how I sound with no audio here?

I write direct and blunt. With no intent of pride or arrogance. If you wish to think that, that is your privilege, but i know my heart .

I do not think there can be any common ground. Armenianism and Calvinism are at near extremes theologically.

YOu cannot find a reconciliation between believing you can lose your salvation and believing you can't!

There is no common ground between Divine Sovereignty and Free Will without Divine Sovereignty! I tried and could find none.

How can one reconciel unconditional and conditional?????

Is that why you are praying?
To find out if you are part of the elect or no?

 

[praise_yeshua]

We both trust Jesus to get us HOME! that makes us family. So these discussions here are brothers arguing arounds the banquet table- I do it in love though I can come off in writing as coarse and surly!

Me too..... We all can.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I've learned that we choose whether we will trust Him or not, and in choosing to trust Him, we have power to overcome everything.

I believe you have. I just don’t understand why you ALSO take great pains to insist remaining and growing in trust is not necessary.

 

[Johann]

call it what you will. We arent supposed to sit back and do nothing against false doctrines.

Yup..


I praise God that I am not under divine obligation to
follow either Calvinism or Arminianism. It smacks of
Corinthian carnality: “For while one saith, I am of Calvin;
and another, I am of Arminius; are ye not carnal?”
Calvinism is built on proof texts rather than on the
whole tenor of scripture.
If isolated and interpreted through Calvinistic lenses, there
are verses that seem to teach TULIP theology, but when
Scripture is taken as a whole the system crumbles.

J.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Is that why you are praying?
To find out if you are part of the elect or no?

its actually not hard to determine if you are of the elect right now…. Are you producing good fruit?? If so, then you are of the elect.

 

[marks]

I had the perception that it was because you thought I attacked your character because you specifically said it was why you were doing it...but I don't care. It's not a big deal.

When posts turn to personal stuff like that, they cease to be useful, and become harmful, to the poster, to those reading along.

The common misconception about me among some here is that because I call attention to something, that I MUST be offended by it. No matter how I try to explain myself, it still seems commonly misconstrued. I don't take personal offense. You've never even met me, much less do you have any kind of rounded perception of who I am, what my internal landscape is like. So when you say grossly inaccurate things about me, it subverts the discussion from any useful direction. It's true, I can feel frustrated sometimes, but for the most part, it just saddens me.

Sometimes (I don't really remember the particulars of all our interactions from past years) some people have entirely turned to personal comments, and the Scriptural discussion is lost. I'll mention it, I'll try to guide back to a Biblical discussion, or something edifying as best I'm able. When the personal comments (ad hominem - "to the man", not necessarily negative or positive, just, personal) continues, when it becomes unbroken, it's time to stop, it's no longer healthy, as, in fact, such comments do tend to be negative. People just sharing their negative opinions of others, or much worse things that that.

And sometimes I'll use ignore in that instance to, as I said before I think, to help me to disengage from something that's not healthy. Sometimes I continue to feel drawn to a conversation even though wisdom says it's time to stop. So wisdom also says, use that ignore tool, just to draw a blind temporarily. Then remove it when I'm no longer feeling that fleshy energy trying to work.

I hope this brings greater understanding!

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Well they are the same then!

I don't think so. Virtually every -ism that begins with a man's name is contrived.

that is too bad! for God is absolute sovereign in Creation and as He said in Isaiah He will not share His glory with anyone else!

You use a lot of exclamation points. That's a tell, you know.

No Romans 9 is not the focal point of all SCripture, but is the focal point of something Paul is declaring about who God is!

And your whole synergism/monergism rationale is just human wisdom. YOu trying to box god into a human frame of reference.

And it is unconditional election, not atonement.

And no, god does not dictate teh affairs of men to end in despair. YOu do not understand Scripture if that is what you think.

Blah, blah, blah. I don't believe that. Calvinists do, though. Maybe not you, I don't know. I never know who I'm talking to when they profess Calvinism. Snore...

Actually, I meant "unlimited atonement" as in Arminianism.

I can't keep up with the terms of all these theories, distillation, and creeds. Sue me.

Trying to keep up with the different recipes of Calvinism is just a great big, fat bore.

Aren't you usually a pretty nice guy when no one's challenging your acronym?

 

[marks]

Hey marks, can you clarify what you have posted?

For example, I can describe my study habits, my commonly used resources, my clarity on the various sides of a discussion, why I think as I do, what's let me to that conclusion, and then read the response, "You'll never understand this if you only listen to false teachers!", which was essentially what I was responding to.

Some are so interested in proving their doctrine right and yours wrong that they cannot see past their nose. Some are so self-assured that they know about you that nothing will change their minds.

Like the guy that got me pegged as King James Only. What joke! Except that becomes the straw man to prevent meaningful discussion. It turns into endlessly rehashing the same handful inaccuracies over and over.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When posts turn to personal stuff like that, they cease to be useful, and become harmful, to the poster, to those reading along.

I think you have maybe become less touchy. It’s a fact that it’s difficult to change our initial impressions of people. They grow and change but we still see them as they were.

 

[marks]

I believe you have. I just don’t understand why you ALSO take great pains to insist remaining and growing in trust is not necessary.

Not necessary for what? Of course it's necessary. But to finish the purchase price of your salvation? No. We are reconciled to God in Jesus Christ. Reconciled is reconciled. Restored to friendship. And now nothing can separate of from His love.

Who is it who will condemn us? Jesus - the Judge of all men - is our intercessor. So who will bring accusation? Satan? Yes. Other people? Yes. God? No.

Do we remain in faith? If we are true we do, and that's what the Bible says. Remaining in the faith is an evidence that you actually are in the faith. But we don't "keep ourselves in the faith" so that we can add to Jesus' death and resurrection as a means to bring life and salvation to ourselves, as a result of our having kept ourselves faithful.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Yup..


I praise God that I am not under divine obligation to
follow either Calvinism or Arminianism. It smacks of
Corinthian carnality: “For while one saith, I am of Calvin;
and another, I am of Arminius; are ye not carnal?”
Calvinism is built on proof texts rather than on the
whole tenor of scripture.
If isolated and interpreted through Calvinistic lenses, there
are verses that seem to teach TULIP theology, but when
Scripture is taken as a whole the system crumbles.

J.

Oh, that's good stuff. PRAISE THE LORD!!!

 

[marks]

I think you have maybe become less touchy. It’s a fact that it’s difficult to change our initial impressions of people. They grow and change but we still see them as they were.

We all have our different perceptions of others, but I can't tell you how many times over the years when I've told someone they've reverted to ad hominems, or this is something they don't actually know, or whatever, to get that reply, "Don't be so touchy!" "You're too sensitive!" "You are being carnal!"

It's a way people can sidestep what I'm saying, and it's just another ad hominem on top of the others. It diverts from the statement being expressed, what I'm actually saying, to replace it with what the other person considers the desired narrative.

I realize most people don't have as low a negative emotional affect as I do most of the time. But sometimes I do feel frustrated when what I feel is a valuable discussion is tanked by that sort of behavior.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

its actually not hard to determine if you are of the elect right now…. Are you producing good fruit?? If so, then you are of the elect.

"Right now?" So, do people fall in and out of election? 'Cause they sure do have blighty seasons sometimes.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Not necessary for what? Of course it's necessary. But to finish the purchase price of your salvation? No. We are reconciled to God in Jesus Christ. Reconciled is reconciled. Restored to friendship. And now nothing can separate of from His love.

Who is it who will condemn us? Jesus - the Judge of all men - is our intercessor. So who will bring accusation? Satan? Yes. Other people? Yes. God? No.

Do we remain in faith? If we are true we do, and that's what the Bible says. Remaining in the faith is an evidence that you actually are in the faith. But we don't "keep ourselves in the faith" so that we can add to Jesus' death and resurrection as a means to bring life and salvation to ourselves, as a result of our having kept ourselves faithful.

Much love!

I can agree we don’t keep ourselves in trust. At least initially. He grows our trust. It is an obedience we learn by the things we suffer. What WE do is examine, with His help, if we really ARE in trust and all the sneaky little ways we do an end run around it.

It’s funny, earlier you said when you see you’ve sinned/not trusted in something He’s said, you hide from God. I don’t do that. I say, ah, I see…thank You, Lord! Then I correct and practice trust.

 

[BarneyFife]

We all have our different perceptions of others, but I can't tell you how many times over the years when I've told someone they've reverted to ad hominems, or this is something they don't actually know, or whatever, to get that reply, "Don't be so touchy!" "You're too sensitive!" "You are being carnal!"

It's a way people can sidestep what I'm saying, and it's just another ad hominem on top of the others. It diverts from the statement being expressed, what I'm actually saying, to replace it with what the other person considers the desired narrative.

I realize most people don't have as low a negative emotional affect as I do most of the time. But sometimes I do feel frustrated when what I feel is a valuable discussion is tanked by that sort of behavior.

Much love!

Sometimes, I'm just wrong!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We all have our different perceptions of others, but I can't tell you how many times over the years when I've told someone they've reverted to ad hominems, or this is something they don't actually know, or whatever, to get that reply, "Don't be so touchy!" "You're too sensitive!" "You are being carnal!"

It's a way people can sidestep what I'm saying, and it's just another ad hominem on top of the others. It diverts from the statement being expressed, what I'm actually saying, to replace it with what the other person considers the desired narrative.

I realize most people don't have as low a negative emotional affect as I do most of the time. But sometimes I do feel frustrated when what I feel is a valuable discussion is tanked by that sort of behavior.

Much love!

It’s a GOOD thing to become less touchy. Does it disturb you if someone sees some improvement in you…?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh, that's good stuff. PRAISE THE LORD!!!

I thought so too. :)